Nagorno-Karabakh

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord’s deep insight into this particular situation. I agree with him on the importance of seeking resolution and working with international partners. I have spoken in previous responses about the importance of negotiation. Conflict is not the solution. We will exercise sanctions across the board where we feel they will have a direct impact on a particular country, organisation or individual, but I cannot speculate as to any future sanctions which we may adopt.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will have seen what Samantha Power of USAID has said about the implications of the blocking of the Lachin corridor, where she said a “humanitarian catastrophe” was unfolding. What discussions are we having with Samantha Power and our allies to ensure that medicine, food and energy, as described by my noble friend Lady Cox, are reaching the 130,000 Armenians who are blocked off in Nagorno-Karabakh? Given the answer that the Minister gave me in December to a Question about the joint analysis of conflict and stability—the JACS assessment—by his own department, which was completed in early 2022, will he agree to place a copy of that assessment in the Library of your Lordships’ House so that we can know whether the Government really are honouring the obligations under the genocide convention that he referred to in answer to the Question from his noble friend Lord McInnes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord will know, on the opinion that he referred to—the JACS—that it is not government policy; we do not put that in the public domain. However, I can say to the noble Lord, as I have said to him during other debates and Questions that we have had on this issue, that I can offer him a meeting, including with our officials, to share the assessment of the situation. On his earlier point about working with the United States and other partners, we are looking for a direct response from the ICRC. Again, I have asked our ambassador in Geneva to engage directly with the ICRC to give a full assessment, and I shall provide further details to the noble Lord and place a copy of that letter in the Library.

United Nations Security Council

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble and learned Lord: there are challenges posed, and I have already alluded to them. The use of the veto often prevents specific action being taken. That is why the United Kingdom is one of the longest-standing members not exercising the veto—exercising that really was a matter of last resort. Of course, the challenge remains to ensure that the veto is used sensitively, but sometimes there are occasions where we need to act decisively to prevent humanitarian disasters taking place.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on the subject of the veto, does the Minister recall that, in 2013, France came forward with a proposal not to abolish but to pragmatically reform the power of veto so that it could not be used where there were allegations of crimes against humanity, the use of genocide or war crimes? That was in the wake of what had happened in Syria. Is not his noble friend Lady Anelay therefore right that we need to revisit some of these questions, not least in the aftermath of war crimes in Ukraine, and what has happened in Tigray, and in Xinjiang to Uighur Muslims? Use of the veto to prevent investigation upholding the genocide convention or the Rome statute is one of the most shameful things and brings the Security Council into disrepute. Should we not be laying resolutions along with the French in the General Assembly and the Human Rights Council, at least paving the way for this kind of practical reform?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said to my noble friend, I agree that it is important that we see reform. That is why, for example, the United Kingdom has supported the accountability mechanism that was put forward, known as the Liechtenstein initiative, which is all about ensuring that, when the veto is exercised, there is accountability for the country that has done so. This now enables the General Assembly to hold vetoing members to account. I would add, once again, that the challenge and tragedy is, as we have seen in recent events in Ukraine, that the egregious abuse of that vetoing right is very much evident and it has been used extensively by Russia.

UK Aid to Afghanistan

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the second recommendation of the ICAI report relates to the point the noble Lord made. It was that UK aid should not be used to fund police or other security agencies to engage in paramilitary operations

“as this entails … risks of doing harm. Any support for civilian security agencies should focus on providing security and justice to the public.”

We accept that recommendation in full. It is worth again putting on the record that UK ODA funding in Afghanistan has never paid for paramilitary operations.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister tell the House whether it is the Government’s intention to continue to support restrictions on travel waivers from the United Nations for members of the Taliban while these reprehensible measures restricting women from receiving university education continue to be in place? Can he also say what he has done about the report sent to his department concerning the Hazara minority in Afghanistan and about reports that some of the members of that community are facing crimes against humanity and even genocide?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, as I said in response to another question, we are routinely engaging with partners around the world to try to inhibit the worst excesses of the Taliban. We engage directly with the Taliban but that is not the same as recognising them—the distinction is important. As regards specific minorities within Afghanistan who are feeling the sharp end of Taliban oppression, I will need to ask my colleague, my noble friend Lord Ahmad, to report back to the noble Lord.

Iran: Women’s Rights

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 21st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the jailing this week in the notorious Evin prison of the courageous Iranian actress Taraneh Alidoosti underlined the insatiable appetite of the theocratic regime for imprisonment, gender-based violence, torture, enforced disappearance, arbitrary arrest and execution. Does not this amount to crimes against humanity? At this critical time, what can the noble Lord tell us about the continuation of the BBC Persian radio service following warnings this week from Ken McCallum, the head of MI5, about the targeting of individuals in the United Kingdom who have criticised the state or supported the protests? Will he ensure the protection of pro-democracy Iranians in the United Kingdom and that it is given new urgency?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises a number of important points. Of course, on the key point of the safety and security of people who are in the United Kingdom, including institutions and organisations, the Government are working directly with our own security and police to ensure that safety and security are guaranteed. If there are specific issues that are raised directly with the noble Lord on ensuring the safety and security of an individual or organisation, I would urge him to raise it with me directly.

Chinese Consul General: Attack on Protesters in Manchester

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, how does the Minister think the Chinese Communist Party would have reacted if the British consul in Shanghai had physically assaulted a Chinese citizen? Will he undertake to ensure that his department will reply to the letter that I sent to the Foreign Secretary asking whether the diplomats, against whom we failed to take immediate action, will be banned from the UK and our overseas UK territories and whether we are seeking compensation from the CCP for the cost of the Manchester police inquiry?

Given the decision of Tower Hamlets Council to reject the planning application for the mega-embassy on the Royal Mint site, will the Minister undertake to answer the questions that I put to him during the debate on China and human rights that was initiated by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans, which remain unanswered, and review the CCP’s acquisition of that site?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, if the noble Lord has not yet received the letter from that debate, I shall of course follow that up. On the specific issue of the planning application, he will be aware that my right honourable colleague the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities has a direct quasi-judicial obligation. The noble Lord referred to a specific planning application. At some point, that may be referred to him, so I cannot comment on it.

On the noble Lord’s earlier point, I cannot speak for the Chinese Communist Party, but I can say that I am absolutely honoured to speak for His Majesty’s Government, because our moral compass is markedly different from that of the Chinese Communist Party.

Democratic Republic of the Congo: Conflict

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right to identify corruption as a major problem in the DRC: it is estimated to cost the country some 10% of its annual GDP. Illicit exploitation of natural resources and smuggling to neighbouring countries is a big part of that, particularly deeply rooted in the eastern DRC: it is estimated at around $1.25 billion per year; that is 2.5% of the country’s GDP just for the natural resource exploitation. Gold is the easiest and most lucrative to smuggle and the rate of this is increasing; it increased dramatically over the last year. So, of course, we strongly condemn the actions of any company, in particular companies based here in the UK, that in any way contribute to the further corruption of already fragile systems, with massive repercussions for the future development of that country and the future peace, security and prosperity of its people.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in addition to conflict, corruption, environmental degradation and human rights violations, has the Minister seen the report from the United Nations earlier this year about the use of child labour in the DRC, saying that 40,000 children in the southern Katanga province alone are mining cobalt there for the lithium that we use in our batteries? Surely the Minister could take this to the big tech companies—Microsoft, Google and the others—and also use our aid programmes as leverage to stop the exploitation of children in this way.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

As ever, the noble Lord points to a really core issue. With the DRC providing around 70% of the global supply of cobalt, we have a particular interest in addressing urgently this issue of child forced and bonded labour in cobalt supply chains. That is reflected in the work we do through ODA; however, I acknowledge to the noble Lord that there is much more we could be doing, not least through the City of London, given the fact that so many large mining players are based in this country. It is certainly my intention to try to create a more co-operative approach with some of those mining companies to see what more we can do to tackle child labour, but also the very widespread environmental contamination. To give one example, there is a village in Peru where every single inhabitant was registered as having near-lethal doses of mercury as a consequence of illegal gold mining, so this is a major problem and one that we absolutely acknowledge.

Nigeria

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 7th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right to highlight the problems in north-east Nigeria, where extremist groups and the ongoing conflict are having a massive impact on communities. These terrorist organisations are set on undermining the right to freedom of religion or belief by attacking those of all faiths who do not subscribe to their limited, extremist views. We are taking a co-ordinated approach to supporting Nigeria and its neighbours to address both the causes and impacts of that conflict. That involves political and defence engagement, humanitarian development and counterterrorism support, and stabilisation and mediation assistance. I do not have figures solely from the time of DfID, but I have some which overlap; over the last five years, the UK has provided £425 million in humanitarian aid to north-east Nigeria. We believe that has reached around 1.5 million vulnerable people.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, it is four years since a 14 year-old girl, Leah Sharibu, was abducted by Boko Haram. She was forcibly taken, raped and impregnated, and she has never been returned to her family. As recently as last week, the Nigerian high commissioner, speaking here in your Lordships’ House, said that she is still alive. The Minister has just referred to kidnappings and abductions. Can he tell us when we last raised Leah’s case with the Nigerians? What is happening to the Chibok girls and what more can be done to secure their release?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The case the noble Lord mentions is truly devastating and grotesque in so many respects. Of course, we continue to condemn Islamic State West Africa Province for that abduction and the ongoing captivity of Leah Sharibu. We have raised her case with the Nigerian Government on numerous occasions—I cannot tell the noble Lord exactly when the last time was, but I will ask the Minister for Africa—and we have called for her release and that of everyone held by terrorist groups in Nigeria. The problem, as the noble Lord knows, is that kidnappings are occurring frequently across Nigeria, and they are carried out by criminal gangs and violent extremist organisations which are indiscriminate in the treatment they mete out to those they capture. Needless to say, the UK condemns all such activities and we are doing everything we can to help the Nigerian police force cope with and tackle this growing problem.

Anti-lockdown Protest in Shanghai: Arrest and Assault of Edward Lawrence

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and, like him, I welcome the prompt action that was taken and of course the release of the journalist. I assure all noble Lords that we remain in direct contact with him. The ambassador was summoned here in London and our consul-general extended support to the individual in the country as well.

At this time, there is nothing further I can add to the response given by my honourable friend in the other place, but I reassure the noble Lord that we remain very focused on key priorities when it comes to our relationship with China. As he will know, we are focused on areas of human rights where we have been very clear in the support we extend to persecuted minorities. Of course, we are also very cognisant that there have been particular measures taken against Members of your Lordships’ House and the other place by the Chinese authorities. It is ironic, and a reflection of the strength of the UK’s position, that we stand by the rule of law, as that is something that has been sadly missing in the response to protests and the current action China has taken against Members of your Lordships’ House and the other place.

On the issue of the integrated review, as my honourable friend said in the other place, we will be working through specific aspects of our relationship with China and that will be presented and, I am sure, debated in the usual way.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in saluting the courage of Edward Lawrence, who returned to his role as a BBC journalist even after the assault occurred, will the Minister also pay tribute to those Chinese citizens, from Tank Man in Tiananmen Square and Bridge Man before the recent CCP congress in Beijing, to the young man who this week led protesters in Shanghai calling for Xi Jinping’s removal and who was then seized by police and has disappeared? Will he reflect on the role of surveillance technology in attempting to suppress dissent, which was referred to here in the debate on the all-party amendment last night, and the comment yesterday to parliamentarians by Dr David Tobin of Sheffield University, who said

“It is exceptionally important that we don’t import that technology here”?


Does the Minister promise to at least give new consideration to the all-party amendment passed last night?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I was not in the Chamber when the specific amendment was discussed, but of course it is important that these things are looked at. The noble Lord will be aware, on the issue of surveillance, of the recent statement made by the Cabinet Office about government security and issues of Chinese surveillance. We need to remain very vigilant on this. The issue of cyber challenges and threats posed by many states is very real and we need to be ever vigilant, particularly when it comes to surveillance in our own country.

On the broader issue of the protests, ultimately it is not for the UK to speculate on the leadership within China, but it is very clear that the issue of human rights is a priority. The noble Lord knows of my personal commitment on this; I join him in recognising the strength, character and courage that must be present in those who are seeking to stand up bravely in the protests. The fact that innocent journalists were caught up for simply doing their job is again a reminder of the importance of championing media freedom.

BBC World Service

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

That this House takes note of the importance of the BBC World Service and the impact of cuts to its services.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, throughout the autumn of 2022, the BBC has been celebrating its 100-year anniversary, but drastic cuts to the BBC World Service—and the loss of 382 jobs and of radio services—have dampened the celebrations and left many dismayed and angry. I am grateful to my Cross-Bench colleagues for choosing this Motion, to all noble Lords who will speak, to the Minister who will reply and to the Library for its background note. We especially look forward to the maiden speech of my noble friend Lord Hampton.

When the BBC World Service started life in 1932 as the BBC Empire Service, Sir John Reith—later Lord Reith—played down expectations:

“Don’t expect too much in the early days … The programmes will neither be very interesting nor very good”.


Seven years later, in the context of a world war, Lord Reith’s doubts had been dispelled. I wonder what he would have made of BBC World Service audiences in 2022 of 365 million people—up 13 million on the previous year—and news in over 40 languages. He would certainly have approved of Allan Little’s story of how, in Paris, an elderly Jewish man had agreed to give him an interview because, as a boy in hiding in wartime Poland, the BBC was the only way he kept hope alive.

Penelope Fitzgerald, who worked for the BBC during the Second World War, wrote a funny and touching novel called Human Voices set in the broadcasting studios of the BBC during the London Blitz. It captured the spirit of the wartime BBC in what was described as:

“A tribute to the unsung and quintessentially English heroism of imperfect people”.


Fitzgerald said:

“Broadcasting House was in fact dedicated to the strangest project of the war, or of any war, that is, telling the truth. Without prompting, the BBC had decided that truth was more important than consolation, and, in the long run, would be more effective. And yet there was no guarantee of this. Truth ensures trust, but not victory, or even happiness.”


Truth and trust: so true today in the era of fake news and, especially, Putin’s propaganda.

Whether in struggles today between democracy and dictatorship—as in Ukraine, Iran, North Korea, Burma, China and elsewhere—or during the dark days of Nazi-occupied Europe, the BBC World Service has always been trusted to provide dispassionate, fact-based and truthful reporting. Even the late Mikhail Gorbachev once said that he had relied on the BBC to learn what was really going on in the world. I once met a young Ukrainian woman who told me that the proudest moment of her life was when she told her parents that she was going to work for the BBC World Service. They had listened to it clandestinely throughout the whole Soviet era.

Last May, the Minister told me that 5 million Ukrainians were listening to the BBC via its digital platform and that 17 million Russians—triple the usual number—had listened to it during the previous week. Can he tell us what the current audience estimates are? Are we happy that ceasing our radio broadcasts to Russia a decade ago has been a bonus for Putin’s state-controlled media? Was this a wise decision?

I co-chair the all-party parliamentary groups on Eritrea and North Korea. Seven years ago, at the conclusion of a long campaign, I was able to thank the FCO and the BBC for agreeing to begin broadcasts to the Korean peninsula. A United Nations report on North Korea showed a country in which there was

“an almost complete denial of the right to freedom of thought … as well as of the rights to freedom of opinion, expression, information and association.”

Breaking such information blockades and our commitment to Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights—upholding the right to unimpeded free access to information and news—are central to the ethos of the BBC World Service.

Eight years ago in a previous Cross-Bench debate, many of us spoke about its role in promoting our belief in human rights, democracy and the rule of law—what Joseph Nye described as the exercise of soft power, or smart power as I prefer to call it. That debate followed a House of Lords Select Committee report which insisted that the World Service represented

“the ability to affect others to obtain the outcomes one wants through attraction rather than coercion”.

This is essential to UK diplomacy and prosperity, but the ability to do these things depends entirely on resources. The Select Committee pleaded that the budget

“is not reduced any further in real terms”.

You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. That central question of funding will dominate today’s debate. I know that my noble friend Lord Hannay will also speak to this.

Traditionally, the funding came from the Government and therefore taxation, based on the ability to pay. By comparison, the licence fee is regressive and not determined by income. In a battle for tight resources, the World Service is bound to suffer if it must compete with “Doctor Who”, “Strictly Come Dancing” or even domestic news services. Why should we expect a listener in Liverpool to pay via their licence fee for services in a language they do not understand which the BBC broadcasts to the listener in Lahore, or a viewer in Bradford for BBC services in Beijing, or a pensioner in Yeovil for services in Yangon? This should not come from the licence fee but be seen as a legitimate public expenditure via taxation. As Tim Davie said at Chatham House last week:

“there is only so much we can ask the licence fee payer in Penrith to pay for the language services … This is a strategic decision for the UK”.

In 2014 the World Service budget, given as FCO grant in aid, was £245 million. If grant had continued and matched inflation, it would have led to an increase of £62 million and a total budget of £307 million in 2022. The actual figure, now rendered from the licence fee, is £95 million. That is a cut of £213 million. How much clearer and better it would be if the World Service was funded once again from the FCDO, as part of a ring-fenced allocation within a restored ODA budget, as the Minister referred to in answer to the Question that preceded this debate.

When I drew another Minister’s attention earlier this year to a report by the National Union of Journalists which highlighted the damage being done to the World Service by the uncertainty of funding, he said

“the value this Government place on the service that is being provided internationally is absolute and there is no question of it being cut back.”—[Official Report, 10/3/22; col. 1553.]

In January, the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, told me that

“We strongly value the work of the BBC World Service in promoting our values globally through its independent and impartial broadcasting”


and that

“The FCDO is committed to providing grant-in-aid funding for the BBC World Service through to 2025.”


However, like the curate’s egg, it is there only in parts.

The BBC says that grave and deep cuts of £285 million a year, necessitated by the Government’s freezing of the licence fee for two years, is leading to hundreds of key posts closing. This is happening as dictators and autocrats are more than willing to fill the void as the free world retreats from the global dissemination of news and at a moment when, in places such as Ukraine, Iran and Taiwan, the need for objective news has never been greater. The numbers are stark: 225 jobs in the United Kingdom, 156 in bureaux and 381 total job cuts from global languages, which could amount to a fifth of staff. Although no language services will close, the BBC says that some TV and radio programmes will stop. BBC Arabic radio and BBC Persian radio will cease, all aimed at saving £28.5 million. I know that my noble friend Lady Coussins will say more on this.

What of the Bengali service? What of the 40% of the world, 2 to 3 billion people, who still have no access to reliable or affordable internet services? Places such as northern Nigeria are a breeding ground for the likes of Boko Haram and ISIS West Africa, about which I know my noble friend Lady Cox will speak. How will the cuts impact our reach throughout Africa? What is the future of the radio transmitting station in Kranji, Singapore, which can reach four countries that represent half the world’s population—India, China, Pakistan and Indonesia? What about the BBC broadcasts to the Korean peninsula, for which I and the all-party group campaigned successfully? I have sent the Minister details on this and hope he can say more about the future of that service.

Deep cuts to the World Service language services follow separate “savings” to be made from the closure of the domestic BBC News channel and BBC World News, with a single BBC News channel. In London, there will be 70 fewer television journalists following and reporting on news, which will be aimed at a global audience led by international stories but shown at times in the UK. This is like Dr Dolittle’s fictional pushmi-pullyu; the joint channel will be a two-headed news beast, neither one thing nor the other. Stories about domestic matters will continually fight against a global news agenda and bumping important issues around the world off the air.

Early Day Motion 504, tabled in the House of Commons on 26 October, draws attention to the cuts in services and jobs, underlines the role of radio when

“digital-only services are lost owing to the blocking of internet access”,

and expresses concern about the impact of the closure of the BBC Persian radio service and BBC Arabic radio—with 10 million listeners—while an uprising is taking place in Iran. Let me spell it out: for the past three months, BBC Persian has played a key role in covering the widespread women-led, anti-regime protests across Iran, and the brutal, violent crackdown that has followed. Heavy censorship limits local media in its broadcasts, but BBC Persian has an average weekly audience of 18.9 million people, with radio reaching a weekly audience of 1.6 million people and producing material for the BBC Persian website and social media. Closing the radio means that from midnight to 5 pm the next day—for 17 hours—the BBC Persian service has no scheduled live broadcast. Of course, we are now told that this space may be filled by a Saudi-funded channel. Closing it while the regime tries to block digital and online platforms is extraordinarily short-sighted. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, feels deeply and strongly about this and will no doubt refer to it.

While dozens of Persian service journalists were spending day and night informing people of the protests, the BBC announced its plans to cut BBC Persian radio, resulting in the loss of nine journalistic jobs and a meagre saving of around £1 million. We should note that this journalistic work has come at a huge personal cost for brave BBC journalists and their families back in Iran. They have faced harassment and intimidation, interrogation, arrest, asset seizing and freezing, and despicable pressure to force them to leave the BBC. They face a barrage of daily abuse and threats online, simply because they are doing their professional job as independent, impartial journalists. The Iranian Ministry of Foreign Affairs recently labelled BBC Persian as terrorist, which could have even more catastrophic consequences for journalists’ families. Cutting BBC Persian at a time of widespread protests across Iran will be celebrated by those who rule there. I have been told about prisoners held in Middle Eastern prisons whose only contact with the outside world is this BBC radio service. For millions of others, trapped in the “prisons” of autocratic regimes which prohibit impartial local media, these services are hugely valued as a rare place to hear the truth rather than unremitting propaganda. Radio still matters.

As the free world retreats, step up Putin’s RT and the CCP’s China media—trusted sources of news? You must be joking, but it is not funny. Has no one noticed that, in the face of genocide against Uighur Muslims, exiled Tibetans, threatened Taiwanese, beleaguered Hong Kongers, and brave dissenting voices throughout China, retaining a strong BBC presence is crucially important? Welcome though resources for a new China unit with a team in London will be, it should be as well as, not instead of. I declare my interests as a patron of Hong Kong Watch and my work with all-party groups.

To conclude, BBC World has given people hope in times of oppression, despair and crisis, and despite many competitors, it is primus inter pares. It is our best-known cultural export; the most trusted news brand; and crucial to diplomacy, culture and commerce. I hope the message from today’s debate during these 100 years celebrations will be to insist that the BBC’s global reach is enhanced and not savagely cut; that it remains first among equals; that we will not accept the emasculation and irreparable degradation of British influence overseas; and that we will look again at a funding model that is wholly unsuited to ensuring that, in the battle of ideas between dictatorship and democracy, our voice in the UK is not silenced. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, it is clear from the Minister’s speech that he passionately believes in the BBC World Service. I hope that he will take our rich debate today to his ministerial colleagues as they reflect on the gap between resources and the ability of the BBC World Service to fulfil its mandate, not least to the 40% of the world without digital access. It may well be true but, compared with the number who listen from digital platforms, which can so easily be closed by regimes such as that in Iran, there are still 1.6 million people who listen by radio to the BBC Persian service.

I too congratulate my noble friend Lord Hampton on his maiden speech. I knew his late father; we became firm friends when he was a spokesman on Northern Irish issues and I was a spokesman on Northern Irish issues in another place. At the age of 18, his son invited me to speak at his school about the importance of getting involved in politics. I am very glad that I did not entirely put him off. It was wonderful to hear him today.

The noble Baroness, Lady Browning, said that we must look at this with fresh eyes, particularly the funding model. The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said that the World Service is our greatest gift from Britain to the world. It should be a gift that goes on giving. The noble Lord, Lord McNally, said that “London calling” still means so much around the world. My noble friend Lady Coussins emphasised the importance of the BBC World Service in moments of jeopardy. It should not be a binary choice between radio and digital. “A voice for the voiceless,” said the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans. The noble Baroness, Lady Helic, said that once it is closed, it cannot easily be restored. The Minister referred to my noble friend Lady D’Souza saying that it is the jewel in our crown.

The noble Lord, Lord McInnes, said that our new Prime Minister should engage with the future of the World Service. Given the noble Lord’s previous role in Downing Street, I hope that he will draw Downing Street’s attention to our debate today. My noble friend Lord Hannay said that it is time for doubling down, not for cutting back. The noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, said that it is crucial to our soft power, and for bettering understanding around the world. My noble friend Lord Hastings said that 40% of the world does not have access to digital services. He particularly talked about his own experiences in Nigeria.

The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, talked about the crucial importance of foreign language services, while my noble friend Lord Bilimoria said that “BBC” actually stands for “best broadcasting corporation”. He is right that it is a world leader and trusted, and that we should not be penny wise and pound foolish. The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, said that the BBC World Service has a crucial role in promoting human rights and media freedom, and that we should not evaluate everything only by its cost but also by its value. My noble friend Lady Cox, with whom I travelled on three occasions to North Korea, and who has herself travelled regularly to places such as Burma and Nigeria, said that we must ensure that we do not block information to places and societies that are closed in such ways. She appealed for more, not less, reporting in places such as Nigeria and Armenia.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, was right: he took part in the last debate that the Cross Benches initiated on this and said that it would not be the last. He underlined the need to return to a traditional funding model. That was emphasised again and again throughout the debate, not least by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, from the Opposition Front Bench. He said that we must be proud of the BBC World Service and that we should revisit this question, looking at updating the integrated review and reassessing the pattern of changing needs.

Just before this debate, we heard how a BBC journalist in China, Edward Lawrence, had been assaulted and arrested. On being freed, he has bravely returned to his work. For me, his story represents what today’s debate is all about. It underlines the importance of what the BBC World Service does, and your Lordships’ House must go on, as it has today from across the political divide, emphasising its importance and fighting for its future over the next 100 years.

Motion agreed.

Civil Society and Human Rights Defenders

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, the answer is yes, because you cannot develop a strategy unless you work with practitioners. I am certainly keen to take that forward. As the noble Lord may well be aware, the United Kingdom Government launched a specific document on UK support for human rights defenders back in 2019, and we worked with civil society groups, including Amnesty International, at the time. We are working through our extensive network of diplomats, and indeed through posts, in supporting human rights defenders. At times, we have to be very cautious of our approach in terms of the public profile we give to human rights defenders in other countries through the support we are extending to them, but we stand very much focused on the training of our diplomats as well as working very constructively with civil society organisations around the world.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on this Red Wednesday, when Mr Speaker has given instructions for the Palace of Westminster to be lit red this evening to commemorate all those who suffer or are persecuted for their belief—hundreds of millions of people around the world—will the Minister say what more we are doing to promote Article 18 of the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which insists that every person has the right to believe, not to believe or to change their belief? In particular, will he take up again the case of Zhang Zhan, the young woman lawyer who went to Wuhan to expose the origins of Covid-19, motivated by her faith, who now languishes in a CCP jail, with British diplomats refused permission to attend the court hearing and no information given about her whereabouts, or indeed about her health?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will follow up and update the noble Lord on his second point. On his first point, of course, the United Kingdom stands very firm in our defence of freedom of religion or belief around the world. It is important that we remain steadfast in that. As a country, we celebrate the rich diversity of faith or belief. Indeed, our own journey, while it may have been challenging, is testament to this. As we look around the rich tapestry of faith institutions in the United Kingdom today, we have church steeples, cloisters, gurdwaras, synagogues, mosques and temples; that really demonstrates how we celebrate faith. Equally, many are denied their right to faith or belief around the world. That is why we held a conference earlier this year; the noble Lord was directly engaged with that. He also knows of my personal commitment to ensure that this remains a key priority for His Majesty’s Government.