Veterinary Medicines and Animals and Animal Products (Examination of Residues and Maximum Residue Limits) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Addington Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, as a tenderfoot in no-deal SIs, I seem to have landed on my feet in a comparatively soft zone. No one I have received briefing from thinks that this, unto itself, is a bad thing. That seems to be the general consensus. Although there are going to be small rising costs—and as we have just heard, there is always the danger that we will be going into a world that is not as good for trade as Europe as it was before—that probably comes with the territory. We will have to accept that, if this SI comes into being; that is the reality of what we have here.

My only question is—and the briefest of thumbnail sketches is all I would require—what would be the alternative? Some idea about what might be happening or what might be the other way might put in context whether this is necessary at the moment. Most of the time, everybody says it is good, but if we do not do this, what else would be available? We had a brief look at the briefing meeting which the noble Lord very kindly arranged. A little hint at what else is available might let us stare a little closer into this pool of reality that comes with these documents.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as I have horses. One issue of particular concern relates to the deletion of the requirement to retest horses entering the UK for disease when initial test results are inconclusive. The omission of this requirement suggests diseased horses will potentially be allowed to enter the UK without adequate care or protection for other animals and human health after the UK leaves the EU. Does this mean that we—

Farriers (Registration) Bill

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2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 6th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for bringing the Bill forward. I am afraid I must take a bit of the responsibility for it being in front of noble Lords in the first place. A while ago, one of the elected farriers on the existing board came to me and said that there were problems. I will not go into details because I do not think it would add anything to the process, but my advice was, “Go and talk to your MP”. He and the other elected farriers on the board—then there were four, as there will be now, but slightly different criteria were used from those in the Bill—went and spoke to their MPs. After a great deal of churn, we have ended up with a new Bill, and I must thank Byron Davies for getting it through the House of Commons. When we initially spoke about this I did not think that would happen, so congratulations to all those involved in piloting the Bill through.

The problems were basically explained to me as being cultural—there had been a breakdown. The solutions that the elected farriers wanted were not exactly those in the Bill, but I appreciate that this is better. Even they would say that half a loaf is a hell of a lot better than no bread, so I hope we get the Bill through. As the noble Earl has pointed out, this will probably be the last opportunity to do so.

I have a few questions for the Minister, and indeed the noble Earl if he cares to chip in. Could we get a working definition in the Bill of what a working farrier actually is? Some of the problems stemmed from the fact that it was felt that some of the committees did not understand the realities of being a farrier—that is, a person who travels around the country, usually in a small vehicle, having to deal with half a tonne of horseflesh that may not be that co-operative. Indeed, it has been said that farriers usually have a girlfriend or boyfriend who is a nurse because frequently that is how they meet. It is a hard, dirty, physical job, and having people who understand that would help. I make it at least five farriers on the council specified in the Bill. If the noble Earl or the Minister could give a definition of what exactly the word means, that would help.

The process of appointing the chair has changed, and a description of how that has changed would help to clarify what has gone on here. The noble Earl has remarked on the capacity to change this much more easily, if something goes wrong, as we are using statutory instruments. I think that would be a last resort, as he has said, but it would mean that things could actually be changed that much more quickly in future.

If we get these clarifications in place, we should do everything we can to ensure that the Bill gets through because it will make the situation better. With that, I wish the Bill godspeed, and hope that we do not actually have to take up too much time getting it through.

Animal Welfare: Penalties

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Monday 16th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, obviously all these matters are already subject to the law. No, there has been no consideration about moving liability to other than where it is now. We think that we have a robust law in place. Obviously, as I have said, if any issues needed to be reviewed, we would do so.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, has any relevant body actually said that it is against the increase in the penalties and, if so, on what grounds?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, it would be fair to say that most animal welfare organisations would like an increase. However, when I reflect on this, in Northern Ireland, which has been mentioned, of the 66 convictions between 2012 and 2016, only one offender received a prison sentence of more than six months, which was suspended. I have already mentioned the independent sentencing guidelines. With an average custodial sentence of 3.3 months, we are looking to see whether there are ways in which magistrates can have enhanced guidelines.

Proposed National Policy Statement for Hazardous Waste

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Wednesday 12th October 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Knight of Weymouth]

My Lords, I broadly welcome this draft national policy statement. Perhaps across your Lordships’ House there is a certain degree of consent by absence, judging by the attendance in the Committee today, although it may be that the planning wonks in the House are distracted by the business in the main Chamber, which will certainly be in the planning arena. I very much welcome the scrutiny that this statement is receiving from the Select Committee in the other place. I mostly enjoyed using the wonderful facilities of Parliament TV to watch the evidence that the Minister gave yesterday to that committee.

I welcome the four principles set out in Part 2 of the draft statement in terms of the principles in forming government policy on hazardous waste: to protect human health and the environment; the implementation of the waste hierarchy; proximity and self-sufficiency; and then climate change. I welcomed what the Minister said to the Select Committee, and this almost seemed to be a fifth principle, that the statement should be as unambiguous as possible so that those seeking to operate within this consent regime can do so with a degree of certainty and flexibility.

Those are all things that I welcome but the nature of debate in this Committee and in your Lordships’ House means that we tend to focus on the things that we disagree about more than on what we agree about. I have, on the latest count, five issues to raise that I hope will be addressed in the final policy statement when it is published by Defra, and that does not include my assumption that the current reference to the IPC will be replaced by the Secretary of State, assuming that the Localism Bill that is being debated in the Chamber achieves Royal Assent, in which case the Secretary of State will take on the powers that the Infrastructure Planning Committee currently uses.

The first of those issues is around the consent regime itself. I know that there are one or two voices saying that in—I would anticipate—virtually every case where an application is made under this regime there will also be an application for a permit from the Environment Agency, particularly in respect of the pollution effects of hazardous waste processing. One or two of those voices have raised the question of whether it is worth there being a single consent regime for the sake of simplicity for the applicant—and for the understanding of the public.

It is worth exploring that further. If my understanding of this is correct, the consent regime that we are discussing in the context of this policy statement is around land use planning, with all the various criteria that the Minister set out in his opening statement. However, a lot of the public concern would inevitably be about pollution as a result of hazardous waste processing taking place in their backyard—to use the vernacular. I do not know that members of the public would be that patient with explanations along the lines of, “This is an issue that should be raised in respect of the Environment Agency”, and “That is an issue that should be raised in respect of the hazardous waste consent regime under the Planning Act”. I should be grateful for any comments from the Minister on whether some negotiation can be had with the Environment Agency, the MMO and any other part of the consent regime so that we could have a single consent regime.

The second issue follows on from that. Assuming that the Minister and his officials have thought about this—which is a fair assumption to make—and resist the temptation to agree with me and go for a single regime, and we then have a split regime, my concern is that we make sure that the timing and the sequencing of that regime work well for applicants. The Minister expressed concern about unnecessary delays in processing applications in the regimes that we have been using, which I agree need to be streamlined. In that case, how will he make sure that the sequencing and timing mean that things go through smoothly, as applicants potentially need to get consents from the Environment Agency and the Marine Management Organisation, as well as any other consents that I have not clocked? That sequencing is very important to streamline the process.

The third issue, which is not unrelated to how those various regimes in the consent process might work, is localism, which I know was raised with the Minister by some of his honourable friends on the EFRA Select Committee in the other place yesterday. I understand, and support, there being a national regime for large and significant infrastructure. There is a strong case for taking some of these strategically important and difficult decisions at a national level, because there are times when it is very difficult for a local planning authority to be able to deal with them in a way that retains the objectivity that one needs when one is making quasi-judicial decisions of this kind. However, I would again be interested in hearing on the record the Minister’s view on how this interacts with the localism being debated in the main Chamber at the moment. I have my own doubts about how well the new localism and planning regimes being debated elsewhere will work in practice, and whether members of local planning authorities under those regimes will be able to resist the nimby tendencies that are often quite powerful at the ballot box. I am perfectly comfortable with the approach that Defra is taking, but I just want to hear from the Minister how he reconciles that with the approach to planning being taken by CLG.

The Minister will not be surprised that my other two issues are around definition and thresholds. My understanding is that the definition of hazardous waste—and the statement is clear about it—is that set out in Regulation 5 of Hazardous Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2005. Those are derived from the European Union’s definitions of hazardous waste. Do the Government have to be constrained by the European Union definition? I understand that the Government have to deliver on items that the EU defines in the directive because it is a directive. But if the Minister wanted to add some additional items to the list for his regime in the UK, could he do so? Then it may be possible, in respect of the questions around lithium or emerging technology that he was asked yesterday, to anticipate some future needs in terms of hazardous waste regulation and, by including some of those items that the EU have not got to yet on the list, provide some encouragement for them to move up the waste hierarchy, to which I know the Minister attaches a considerable importance.

Finally, on thresholds, particularly given the fifth principle that I have attributed to the Minister of being as unambiguous as possible, I should like some clarity from him around the flexibility that there appeared to be from the evidence session yesterday. It is clear that there are two thresholds—one of 30,000 for most hazardous waste and one of 100,000 for hazardous building material going into landfill. As he said in his opening statement, that applies with new build and with those facilities increasing capacity. What was then said was that the Planning Act 2008 gives provision for amounts less than that to be considered under the national policy statement process if the Minister thinks that that is appropriate. Those listening, or those who read the final statement when it is agreed, need more clarity so that they understand when the Minister is likely to use the flexibility that he has so that it is predictable and, in his words to the Committee, “unambiguous”. If I can get some reasonable responses either now or in the final statement, I would be extremely happy with some very good work from his department and his officials.

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, I come in as the stand-in for those whom the noble Lord, Lord Knight, describes as planning wonks or geeks, not that I would describe any of my friends like that—not if they were within striking distance, anyway. Looking through this draft proposal, I found myself thinking, “How could you possibly object to it in principle?” The “Summary of Government Policy in Part 2” lists protecting human health and the environment, the implementation of the waste hierarchy, the proximity of self-sufficiency and climate change. All of these things seem to be like motherhood and apple pie. The noble Lord, Lord Knight, once again beat me to the draw—he is clearly better versed on this subject than I am. But one of the questions raised will be the nimby tendency which runs through this. There is always an excellent reason for doing oneself a good turn at the ballot box. If someone wants a facility moved one mile down the road or at least out of sight, nimbyism will be there. A clarification of the process and some sort of national strategy is undoubtedly required. Unless we gain a good description of why this should happen now and guidance on how all the various factors pull together, it is going to create an unnecessary degree of resistance. It is always going to be the case that you inconvenience somebody when you do something positive. That is just a principle that runs through everything.

We should state clearly and categorically that we are going to have to accept that occasionally certain people will be inconvenienced, although hopefully as little as possible, if we are to do things like dealing with our own waste, not transporting it across the world. Indeed, let us take transport somewhere whose regulations are not as good as ours, pull it into the ecosystem and put some more carbon into the atmosphere by transporting it in the first place—hey, there’s a great long-term strategy. If we are dealing with it ourselves, it is a good idea to have a coherent strategy. Greater clarification on how that all pulls together would be helpful. All of us who are involved in any form of national politics will have to come back and defend this. Today, when we have not had camaraderie of spirit throughout the processes of the House, it would be good to have that now and to hear how we are going to achieve this.

Clothing Industry: Ethical and Sustainable Fashion

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Thursday 3rd March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Young, on bringing this subject before us. When we talk about the clothing industry and fashion, it is something where Britain has a considerable history. Indeed, the authority of this House is the Mace that rests upon the Woolsack. We have been dealing in textiles for just about as long as there has been an organised Britain, and we started the industrial revolution with wool until cotton took over. We have a history of great production lines. However, we also set the pattern whereby every time you want to industrialise or get into something, you go into textiles. As the noble Baroness pointed out, that textile is usually cotton.

As we look at the stance taken towards industrialisation, we can see that it mirrors what we went through: bad labour conditions, overexploitation and no environmental consideration. The first time we polluted our rivers, we did it with dyes on a mass scale. Mining might have challenged that, but streams in the north of England that turned different colours as dyes were used is definitely something that can be traced back to the textile industry. It goes back to when we produced virtually all the textiles in the world, so we have a great deal of experience of what happens.

We also know, thanks to the work of many people who are involved in this, that taking your workers and driving them into the ground is not the best way to get the best out of them. Sir Robert Peel, the father of the Prime Minister of that name, brought in the first Act about the treatment of workers and their hours and conditions. This might be an odd thing to ask a Conservative Minister, but are this current Government going to help in setting up organised labour and encouraging how this can be done to get the best out of the labour force, and how to make things not so exploitative yet more efficient? This is probably something that comes through in much of what the noble Baroness said. I think I got quite a lot of the same briefing—she handled it very well and I will not repeat it. If we are going to make sure that the workers in these overseas industries are better treated, making sure that the textiles and the product we consume here are valued is a good first step—making sure that you invest in these people to get a better return. The technology needed to enter this industry tends to be at the lower end. The noble Lord, Lord Haskel, has said there are higher-tech solutions, but the entrance level—which I believe is mostly what the noble Baroness was talking about—tends to be fairly low-tech, or yesterday’s tech. Can the Government tell us what they are doing to encourage those employers and those states that are involved to represent and cherish these people?

I got a great deal of ribbing in my party when it was heard that I had to talk about fashion, although not primarily from those who are here, it has to be said. Fashion is a driver of consumption in this country. When we talk about ethical fashion, we are talking about getting away from throwaway fashion; or, if we are going to throw it away, about how we recycle. Relying on landfill, as has been pointed out before, is a ridiculous state of affairs when you have to export it all around the world, with huge costs in transport. How are we going to get out of that? For instance, are we going to encourage, as the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, has suggested, more home-produced textiles, which will basically mean wool? This is something for which the Government must encourage research and development. Our universities, which now have a slightly more secure financial situation, might well have to take this on. Will the Government tell us exactly how much support is going into that? Fashion itself has a moral responsibility to make sure that it encourages not merely consumption but consumption done on a civilised basis—that is, one in which you are encouraging people who are being treated well to produce it, and one where there is not abuse and throwing away.

That is far too many questions for a speech of under five minutes, but I encourage the noble Lord to answer this in the sprit in which this subject has been raised today—as an all encompassing global industry, in which we are players.

Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging Waste) (Amendment) Regulations 2010

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Wednesday 17th November 2010 Grand Committee

Finally, I hope the Minister will set his face against those who somehow think that it is an imposition on British industry to do better in environmental matters than the rest of Europe. One of the things we are up against is that the European Union, of which I am a passionate supporter, is slow in putting all this right, so we are in position in which we can do this. It is a pity that we have not set an example and that we have not moved as we should have. I hope my noble friend will give a commitment to try this. If he is right, I shall be happy to come back on a suitable occasion and say, “Mea culpa. I was wrong; the expert was faulty and the onlooker saw more of the game”. I would be as humble as he would wish me to be. In return, if it turns out that there is a serious diminution in the provision for recycling, and if there is a clear sign that local authorities are finding things more difficult than before, I hope he will give a commitment to come back to the House and lay a new order.

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, after the last speech I feel that I am treading on someone else’s carpet. It was an extremely interesting intervention and both my noble friends should be encouraged to continue talking about the questions raised. If there is a danger that the incentive to carry on will be removed, given the expertise here we should consider that matter. If allies of long standing, new allies and all those who are interested in the field say that there is a danger here, perhaps the Minister can give an assurance that the Government will keep a weather eye on the situation. I would be reassured by that commitment.

It is more reassuring when you hear from someone who genuinely knows what they are talking about; not a parliamentary expert, which is how I interpret someone who has merely spoken on the subject three times, but someone who knows something about it. I hope the noble Lord, Lord Henley, will say that the Government are watching the situation and monitoring these concerns, because if we cannot have a broad church on environmental matters we should give up and go home now.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, teased me at the beginning of her remarks that I had possibly over-attacked her at Question Time yesterday on the subject of conservation, and I wonder whether I possibly over-egged my remarks. Perhaps I was provoked by the noble Baroness; I am not sure. I accept that her Government consulted effectively on some occasions and I hope she will accept that, when we consult, we consult genuinely and with a real intention to listen. She asked what interest was shown. I can assure her that we had 96 responses from local authorities, producers and trade associations, and that the consultation covered the usual 12 weeks. I hope I can say that we consulted enough; that, as far as one ever can, we got to everyone it was necessary to get to, although one can never guarantee that; and that we covered as many SMEs or their representatives as possible. Very often, SMEs do not have time to respond themselves but have representatives who can.

Dog Control Bill [HL]

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Friday 9th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, legislation about dogs seems to be something of a parliamentary graveyard, to be perfectly honest. We have tried it several times and we have got it wrong on several occasions. My noble friend’s Bill has one underlying merit; it acknowledges the fact that it is an incredibly difficult field and tries to deal with what we have got wrong before. It addresses the primary problem that was raised last time. I was not quite so new to the House, although I believe that my noble friend had taken over from me in the role that I always defined as “baby Peer” in the days when the hereditaries were in more of a majority—although this debate is a bit of a throwback to those days.

We did not really take on board the fact that the owner is the main control mechanism for a dog. The fact of the matter is that a dog is an animal that works with dominance and in packs. We are allowed to keep them because they accept us as dominant members of their pack. Thus you have a dog that will do roughly what you want it to do, if you are prepared to control and discipline it. That is why the emphasis in the Bill on the owner as controller of the dog is probably a more sensible approach that gives greater scope for getting it right. I hear what my noble friend Lord Mancroft says—that the genetics of the dog are important. We have spent we do not know how many tens or hundreds of thousands of years making dogs fit certain roles by selective breeding, but certain dogs will always be worse at certain things. Labradors may bite people but they do not do as much damage as Rottweilers.

There is certainly a degree of logic in my noble friend’s approach, but the fact is that even a comparatively soft and small dog like a Spaniel can still do a lot of damage if it clamps on to you; they have incredibly powerful jaws.

On the points made by my noble friends, and by other noble Lords who are friends, about what constitutes a dog “being aggressive”, anyone who knows anything about animals would say, “Oh, that couldn’t possibly be included”. Then you think about how legal action has been taken; there have been vexatious or uninformed cases. Greater clarification might be needed here.

The basic thrust of my noble friend’s Bill may actually allow us to make progress and produce better law. My personal preference would be for a licence fee with some dedicated enforcement process behind it involving people who were informed and trained. However, I do not think that that is possible with the current financial situation; indeed, it is outwith the scope of a Private Member’s Bill.

Having got that off my chest, I want to say that my noble friend’s approach on this probably has a line that we can follow. Let us not pretend for one minute that any piece of legislation will stop people occasionally getting bitten by dogs. I have seen children who regarded dogs as animated teddy bears and think that giving them a nice, big, friendly cuddle around the throat is a good thing. Then, when it growls at them to stop, they think they have hit the play mechanism inside it and that is clearly powered by a battery. Most dogs will growl, run away or occasionally nip. If the dog does something more or catches the child in the wrong way, damage will be done. We must bear in mind that people should supervise both the dog and the child in those situations.

We must take into account that, as has been said before, dogs chase things. I own an enthusiastic terrier that knew that bunnies’ heads were detachable the minute it first saw one. Although she is an enthusiastic member of the breed, she is not unique. We must bear this in mind in legislation.

When the Minister replies, I hope that he will have some information about the Government’s approach to this and whether they are prepared to back any form of fine tuning of the current legislation in the foreseeable future. If they have a major complaint about the approach in my noble friend’s Bill, I would be interested to hear it. What we currently have has not worked.

The status of dogs seems to be mentioned in law to prohibit them. I had a little exchange about fashion history a couple of days ago in this Chamber. The fashion in what looks tough walking on four legs in the street beside you is equally applicable here. When I was young, Rottweilers were not on the scene but Dobermans and Alsatians certainly were. We should be looking to move forward to something that will lead to the streets being slightly safer, is enforceable and takes into account the nature of the dog. My noble friend’s Bill certainly points the way to an achievable goal.

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991

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Monday 21st June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the courts can order the dog to be put down if they find that it is a prohibited breed or if it is dangerous, but that will be done in the most humane manner possible.

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, has the noble Lord considered that resources and the number of people trained to deal with the Act might be one of the most important factors in whether this or any other piece of legislation works?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, Defra offers guidance to police forces, and all police forces have to have a designated dog legislation officer who knows what the law is and how it can be used to best effect. We certainly assist in providing training for those dog legislation officers, so that local authorities can enforce the law in the most appropriate manner.