Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 25th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend raises a fundamental point about how we are governed and how we hold Administrations to account. Historically, that was done through Ministers, who had direct responsibility for and authority over how things were done. However, in recent years, and indeed decades, there has been a tendency to pass things over to unaccountable bodies, and that is a matter that the House is justified in wanting to debate.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

We are long overdue a statement from the Culture Secretary or perhaps even the Chancellor about what further fiscal measures will be taken to support our music venues, music festivals, recording studios, theatres and other cultural assets. When I originally raised this with the Leader of the House in March, he said:

“The Government are inevitably conscious that when we close places by order and that has an effect on people’s livelihoods, there is a societal responsibility.”—[Official Report, 23 March 2020; Vol. 674, c. 27.]

I completely agree with that. When will we have a statement, before we suffer irreversible damage to our cultural landscape?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I reiterate the amount that has already been done: 9.1 million jobs are being protected and furloughed, at a cost of £20.8 billion to the taxpayer, and 2.6 million self-employed people are being supported, at a cost of £7.6 billion. This benefits all sectors, including the cultural sectors. We are at the stage in this programme where helping everybody is the right thing to do, because everybody is being affected by the closures. I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport is in discussions on how other support may be provided as things change and evolve, but I will pass on to him the hon. Gentleman’s desire for a statement.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 18th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend is a very distinguished predecessor in this role, and did a great deal of the work to ensure that people understand the problems that the Palace a whole faces. With the then Leader of the House of Lords, he chaired a Joint Committee, which I sat on, that looked into this issue. His question is of great importance. Everyone in the House recognises that the Palace needs a significant amount of work. It is a masterpiece—a showpiece of our belief in our democracy and our willingness to ensure that it is something we can be proud of across the world. As he knows, the Sponsor Body has been established, and it now has the responsibility for the plans to implement the strategy for R and R. It is reviewing the situation that it has inherited and the current circumstances, but it must ensure that whatever is done represents good value for money. There is not a bottomless pit of money.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Can we have a debate on the fact that, yesterday, the UN extraordinarily removed the Saudi-led coalition from the blacklist for violating children’s rights in Yemen, despite admitting that it killed or injured 222 children in Yemen in the past year? My constituent Luke Symons, who is held captive by the Houthis, was in Taiz in 2015 when the Saudis bombed and devastated it. He was on the phone to his relatives in Cardiff at the time, and they heard the carnage that was going on. Can we have some pressure from the Foreign Office for a total ceasefire from the Saudi-led coalition so that humanitarian aid can go in and we can arrange for the release of prisoners such as my constituent Luke?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

It may be helpful if I give the hon. Gentleman the latest update on Luke Symons that I have from the Foreign Office. Officials are in touch with his family, but we have no consular presence in Yemen, which means that we are unable to provide direct assistance. That has been the case since 2015, but the Government continue to press the Houthis to release Luke on humanitarian grounds. The case is being raised at the most senior levels within the Houthi regime, and we continue to call for Mr Symons’s release regularly, particularly in the light of the coronavirus. The Government are committed to doing everything we can to ensure his release.

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise those broader points about the situation in Yemen. It is troubling, and the Government have previously called for a ceasefire.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 11th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: the economic health of our Commonwealth allies is of key concern to this country. One of the great opportunities—one of the reasons why I have supported Brexit so enthusiastically—is that we have the ability to strengthen our economic ties with our friends throughout the Commonwealth, be it the giant that is India or the littler powerhouse of Belize.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

If any schoolchildren are watching our proceedings rather than being at school, I should point out to them that the Leader of the House’s hand gesture when describing the radius of a circle earlier indicated, in fact, the circumference of a circle. I do not know what they teach at Eton College, but it was important to clear that up, just in case.

On a more serious point, I thank the Leader of the House and the shadow Leader of the House for mentioning the case of my constituent Luke Symons, who is held captive by the Houthi rebel regime in Yemen. May we have a debate on Yemen? I know that Foreign Office questions are coming up before the end of the month, as the Leader of the House quite rightly said, but in a debate there is an opportunity to range more widely than at Foreign Office questions and we can cover a number of subjects. Will he give that some consideration?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

For the sake of clarity, I was talking about the area of a circle, which is obviously encompassed within the circumference. I hope that is helpful to any schoolchildren—

[Kevin Brennan]

You said the radius.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I was talking about the circumference, which is 2πr, and the area, which is πr², as we all know.

Let me turn to the important issue of Mr Symons. I suggest to the hon. Gentleman, who knows the House’s procedures extraordinarily well, that an Adjournment debate would be the suitable way to start, as it is a specific constituent matter. The whole House sympathises with what he is trying to do. It is important always to encourage the Foreign Office to do its best.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 4th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that deeply distressing matter in the House on behalf of his constituents. It is hard to think of anything worse than having to move out of one’s house, or being left just with the clothes that one was wearing at the time one’s house fell into the sea, because something had not been done that would have prevented that from happening. I therefore share my hon. Friend’s concerns about the effect of coastal erosion on seaside communities, particularly those in his constituency.

I point out that the Environment Secretary will be in the House to take questions on 25 June, which I believe will be a useful opportunity to address the matter to the Secretary of State, but my hon. Friend is right to use the procedures of this House to ensure that quangos are held to account, as well as Government Ministers directly.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I recently had the pleasure of voting while strolling outdoors in the company of the Leader of the House for 43 minutes when he was simultaneously being barracked by his own colleagues for the arrangement that has put in place for voting. I am glad that he responded to my intervention on him on Tuesday about proxy voting, but why will he not simply allow Members to self-certify and thus treat them as “honourable” Members? The Prime Minister calls for British common sense, but from the Leader of the House we get no House of Commons sense.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. The precise details of how people get a proxy vote is for agreement between Mr Speaker and the leaders of the three main parties—the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the Scottish National party. That is the provision in the Standing Orders relating to proxy voting—that is how it has been done for paternity and maternity leave—and what the level of certification would have to be within that. Maternity and paternity leave requires specific certification. The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point about whether that is necessary in this case.

Proceedings during the Pandemic

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the points that he has made. I assure him that the Government will listen carefully to any ideas that come forth from the Procedure Committee and from hon. Members in relation to how things can be improved and made more fluid in these difficult circumstances.

The Government wish to ensure that the House continues to function in line with Public Health England advice. Paragraph (4) therefore ensures that the Speaker may limit the number of Members present in the Chamber at any given time, and disapplies the Standing Orders relating to the prayer card system. The Standing Order will be discontinued in order that the flow of Members in and out of the Chamber can be managed, but I reassure Members that Prayers themselves will take place at the start of each sitting day. Finally, paragraph (5) disapplies Standing Orders relating to English votes procedures, as double majority voting is likely to be incompatible with the arrangements for socially distanced Divisions.

Let me now turn to the amendments tabled by the Opposition parties and the Procedure Committee. I reiterate my gratitude to the Procedure Committee—particularly my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley)—for its and her swift work, and welcome continuing discussions with that prestigious Committee. I used to be on it, which is why I think particularly highly of it; it is one of the most interesting Select Committees in the House.

I hope that my commitment to bring forward tomorrow a Government motion to allow some participation in hybrid proceedings for those who are shielding demonstrates my commitment to ensuring safe participation for as many Members as possible, and that those amendments which seek to require some hybrid participation can be withdrawn on that basis.

I have already set out the case against remote voting, but let me address the argument made by some Members that if a Member is not able to vote, they will be entirely disenfranchised. I do not accept that. There are many other ways in which MPs represent their constituents in Parliament, including through tabling written questions, writing correspondence, tabling amendments and attending hearings of Select Committees, which will continue. Select Committees can continue to meet remotely under the resolution that I brought forward in March and will continue to carry out their important work with Members participating from around the country. It is worth noting that the Liaison Committee very successfully quizzed the Prime Minister in this way, so scrutiny carries on in other ways too.

I know that there has been concern about the operation of evidence sessions for Public Bill Committees. I hope that the House will welcome the fact that some specific witnesses to the Domestic Abuse Bill have been told that they will be able to give evidence remotely on Thursday, should they wish to. I was keen to ensure that this was possible. Some had assumed that it was not, but this concern turns out to be misplaced. The House has confirmed that under existing rules, witnesses can indeed give evidence remotely to Public Bill Committees in the same way that they have long been able to with Select Committees. It can therefore happen with no changes to the Standing Orders.

I ask that the House agrees the motion today and considers the further motion that I will bring forward tomorrow. I have no doubt that the Procedure Committee will continue to keep our ways of working under review, and I welcome that. For my part, I very happily commit to continuing to do the same, in order that we can ensure that the House can continue to go about its business effectively and safely.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I apologise for not being here right at the beginning of the right hon. Gentleman’s remarks, but I did not know whether I would be able to get into the Chamber. If proxy voting is acceptable for somebody on maternity leave in principle, why is proxy voting not acceptable for somebody who is shielding in this extraordinary crisis?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Procedure Committee is currently holding an inquiry into proxy voting and whether it is suitable to be extended. I am aware that the hon. Gentleman is asking me this question, but obviously this is a matter for consultation with the Procedure Committee. The drawback of proxy voting immediately is that the temporary system that we will be having will take longer anyway, and that would be particularly complicated by proxy voting. But is it a solution that is ruled out full time? No, I would say that it is not.

It is important to emphasise that, with the hybrid Parliament, the commitments the Government made to the voters in December were clogged up. The Domestic Abuse Bill was not making progress—no Bill Committees were sitting—nor were the Fire Safety Bill, the Northern Ireland legacy Bill, the Fisheries Bill, the Trade Bill or the counter-terrorism Bill. What we do in this House is important and that we do it at a reasonable and efficient pace matters, and to do that we need to be here physically. I know, I understand and I sympathise that those Members who are shielding face difficult times. They are following advice that may prevent them from being here to vote, and that is difficult for them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Karen Bradley]

Oblivion and Nemesis.

I will address amendments (b) to (d), tabled in my name and those of several right hon. and hon. Members, including 15 other Select Committee Chairs. Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope you will allow me to address my remarks not just to the Chamber but to those Members who cannot be present because of the limitations on space, which you are quite properly enforcing, and who, because of the conditions caused by the pandemic, are having to follow proceedings from elsewhere.

Since the 16th century, this Chamber and its predecessors have been the absolute focus of the House’s life. Our procedures are founded on the principle that everything is done in the Chamber. That is a sound principle. Members rely on face-to-face communication. The word “parliament” comes from the French “parler”. The idea that the Chamber is now not available to many of us is a massive dislocation. Let me be clear: I do not want the measures that we are debating to be in place for a second longer than they have to be to keep our colleagues, our staff and the staff of the House as safe as possible from coronavirus. I look forward to the time when the guidance is relaxed and we can all of us meet here again.

I have to say to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House that this is a very uncomfortable day for me. I do not like being badged as a rebel on House business. I am determined that we will get back to a fully physical Parliament as soon as possible. The Leader of the House will recall that I tabled an amendment to slow down the introduction of remote voting on 22 April, which the Government would not accept. I am very much in the traditionalist camp and am on the record as saying that the hybrid arrangements were sub-optimal, so let me be clear: the sooner we are back to normal, whatever that is, the better, for me, but the physical Parliament that we are in today is far from optimal itself. We can have no more than 50 Members in the Chamber and, in fact, 40 Members in the choir seats, as they are called; no bobbing; long queues to vote; very little spontaneity; and so many great parliamentarians absent.

Last night I had a conversation with my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), and he said that I could discuss that conversation in the Chamber. He is a great parliamentarian, a great campaigner and a great champion for his constituents. He wanted to be present today, but his doctor has advised him that he must not be, for his own health. The idea that we decide today to disenfranchise him completely seems to me to be absurd. I very much welcome what the Leader of the House said about tabling a motion to allow virtual participation, but I would like to see a copy of that motion before I make a final decision not to push to a vote amendments (b) and (c), which I tabled and which relate to virtual participation.

[Kevin Brennan]

Is it not a double injustice that the right hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) is not only to be disenfranchised by the vote that will be taken today but cannot even participate in his own disenfranchisement because of the nature of that?

[Karen Bradley]

The hon. Gentleman makes exactly the point that my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow made to me last night, and I know how frustrated he is by this situation.

Let me move on to Divisions, because we have had debates about hybrid proceedings and, as I say, I look forward to seeing the Government’s motion, hopefully before the end of this debate. I am an ex-Whip; I have every sympathy with the desire to get back to fully physical voting. That is the way that Whips manage the business and the party, and it is how we Back Benchers interact with our colleagues and with Ministers. But I say to the Leader of the House that we will perhaps shortly have the chance to test the proposals that we have put forward, and I look forward to seeing what Members feel about them.

I back up the comments about deferred Divisions made by the Chair of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Mr Wragg), who is no longer in his place. I support the Government’s bringing forward of changes to Standing Orders that will allow deferred Divisions on Second Reading and other debates, so that we will not have to have so many physical Divisions. I would welcome tests of other forms of voting, but when we introduced remote voting, we did so after we had tested it and tried it; nobody has tested and tried the current proposal for physical voting. Will the Leader of the House please consider accepting the amendment to allow remote voting to continue for a short period of time? We will all work together to find a form of physical voting that we can all be happy with.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Wednesday 29th April 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Chancellor did make a statement on Monday. The schemes for small businesses are pretty comprehensive, including 100% loans, which have now been announced, the suspension of rate payments, the funding for entrepreneurs and the self-employed and so on. That Government are doing what they can, but those matters could be covered in the general debate on 11 May.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab) [V]]

The hybrid Parliament is a great achievement, but I am sure that the Leader of the House agrees that it does not come close to replicating the true cut and thrust of proper Commons debate, with interventions and so on. Does he intend to continue to proceed by consensus and to introduce only uncontested business at this time, unless it is urgent and absolutely necessary to do otherwise?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the real thing is better than a virtual Parliament. I will not give an advert for Coca-Cola, which views itself as “the real thing”, but there is a lot to be said for the real thing. However, the Government have a legislative agenda that they must get through, so, no, I will give no guarantees that there will not be contested business. That is why we need to have votes: so that Members may express their views.

Points of Order

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Wednesday 25th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Obviously a point of order is for the Chair, but it is quite right that we put that on the record. The thoughts of all Members of the House on all sides will come together. We give his family our most sincere thoughts and prayers at this time.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Liaison Committee has still not been set up because there were objections to the Leader of the House’s proposal to create a new piece of prime ministerial patronage, putting someone in place as Chair rather than having them elected by the House. I wonder, Mr Speaker, whether there has been any indication that that motion could be brought back by the Leader of the House at any stage without the position of Chair being included.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I might be able to help. The Liaison Committee Chair is not a matter for today. The Leader of the House may wish to clarify it and clear up any mess.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Wednesday 25th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

There is no limit on non-named day questions; it is only on named day questions that a limit applies. Select Committees will be able to carry on their work and do so remotely, so scrutiny is being continued.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

The Leader of the Opposition was right to praise cleaners. My 90-year-old mother, Beryl, is a former cleaner, and when I took her to Cardiff city hall when I was first elected and showed her the grand marble hall, her reaction was to say, “Imagine having to clean this.” We should all remember that in politics in every time. However, unlike in her day, many cleaners these days are self-employed. That is not by choice, and they are not very wealthy, unlike the kind of self-employed people the Chancellor was talking about yesterday. The Prime Minister said that within a couple of days we would have an answer. Does that mean that we will have an answer from the Government for self-employed people on Friday?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

First, may I wish the hon. Gentleman’s mother good health at the age of 90? I hope that she is staying at home and following all the advice, although sometimes persuading mothers to do what they are advised to do is not easy. Cleaners are very important. The Prime Minister said that an announcement would come out soon, and I think he implied 48 hours, which would get us to Friday, so, reading into what the Prime Minister said, I think the hon. Gentleman’s question answers itself.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Monday 23rd March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Mr Speaker, may I refer to your statement, which, I think, gave the House very good advice? We, as right hon. and hon. Members, need to consider what is urgent and pressing and needs raising with Ministers and what is routine and can wait until after this crisis is solved. It is of the greatest importance that urgent messages get through and are not swamped by routine messages that we would usually be passing on to try to seek high-level responses. Self-denial by us will help Ministers to ensure that the right responses are given to the most urgent items.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I add my voice to those of the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) and my right hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) about the self-employed and freelancers, and I ask the Leader of the House to convey to the Chancellor the urgent requirement for him to come back to the House for a statement about them. I also commend to him the report issued today by the Musicians’ Union, which outlines the impact that this has had on many people in the creative industries.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the issue of those in the creative industries, who are mainly self-employed and have been particularly affected because, of course, the places where they perform have been closed. The Government are inevitably conscious that when we close places by order and that has an effect on people’s livelihoods, there is a societal responsibility. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor is fully aware of that.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 19th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

That is an extremely helpful question. I will ensure that the hon. Gentleman’s constituency company is brought to the attention of the relevant Ministry to ensure that, if more quantities of soap are needed, the company can be involved. The private sector will be crucial in this effort in co-operating with what the Government are doing and changing production to produce ventilators, and I am sure there is a need to produce other things for which there is now greater demand. I am grateful to him for his helpful suggestion.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Like other hon. Members, I have constituents stranded overseas. David and Anne Clements, who run a small business in my constituency, are stranded in Quito in Ecuador. They were due to fly home tomorrow, but there are no flights and no prospect of any in the immediate future. Could the Leader of the House arrange for the Foreign Secretary to make a further statement—he seemed to rule out repatriation in previous statements—and perhaps persuade him to attempt more co-operation with other Governments, so that, if necessary, flights could be arranged for people of different nationalities to bring them safely home?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman makes a helpful point, and the Government have previously co-operated with other nations on repatriation flights. The situation is developing and evolving and the ability to bring people home has become harder in recent days, but as I said earlier, the Foreign Secretary is working very hard on this and is in discussion with the airlines.