Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The city deals are proving to be a very positive thing. The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government will be here on Monday for Community and Local Government questions. He has been heavily involved in city deals. It is worth remembering that if Scotland were independent from the United Kingdom, there would be no city deals.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

With the news that the new Prime Minister has sacked not only the Culture Secretary, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Justice Secretary, but the Education Secretary, would this be a good opportunity to debate improving the teaching of geography and of classics? Improving the former would allow the Leader of the House to learn the difference between Faslane and Rosyth, while improving the latter would enable the children of this country to learn that the appointment of the new Foreign Secretary must be the most remarkable appointment since the Emperor Caligula appointed his horse a senator.

[Chris Grayling]

Even the Leader of the House can get momentarily confused between two places, but I am still certain that the Scottish National party would struggle to convince the communities adjoining the base at Faslane that it is a jolly good idea to lose that facility to somewhere else; it makes no sense at all. On learning classics, I remind the hon. Gentleman that more than 1 million more children than in 2010 are being educated in good or excellent schools, and I am very proud of that.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Let us be absolutely clear that we may be electing a new leader, and hence a new Prime Minister, but this Government’s strategy has not changed and will not change. As well as continuing to pursue a one nation agenda, we will continue the modernisation of our infrastructure, where we have made a real difference. When I was shadow Transport Secretary a decade ago, I remember going around the country and campaigning with colleagues for infrastructure improvements that they said were desperately needed. Now, when I drive around the country, I see that those projects have either been finished or are being built. I am proud of what we are doing for our infrastructure.

On the team negotiating our future relationship with the European Union, it is my and the Government’s view that we should draw from the broadest possible expertise to make sure that our strategy is the right one for this country.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House has said that a huge amount of information was set before the country in the EU referendum. A Vote Leave campaign leaflet said:

“The EU costs us £350 million per week—we could spend that on the NHS instead.”

Is it not the truth that a huge amount of misinformation was placed before the country? When can we debate when we are going to get that £350 million?

[Chris Grayling]

Let us be clear: the Government have this week set out in this House the first steps that we are taking towards negotiating our exit from the European Union. The hon. Gentleman will know that, while we remain members of the European Union—as we are today—our normal contributions will continue. When we leave, we will no longer make a contribution to the European Union in the way that we do now.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

Culture Ministers will be here answering questions on 9 June. Let me say, though, that going to Warwickshire is always wonderful, especially to celebrate the oval ball, while there will be celebrations of the round ball shortly with the European championship.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May we debate why the Government want 50 fewer elected Members of Parliament but keep on creating more unelected Tory peers? The hon. Lady’s party received 36.8% of the votes at the general election, but 43.7% of the House of Lords already consists of party political Tory peers. Will her party stop creating peers, and drop its plans to gerrymander the House of Commons?

[Dr Coffey]

The purpose of the Act that was passed during the last Parliament was to ensure that constituencies were of equal size, and I thought that very fair. I find it extraordinary that there are 40 MPs in Wales, representing considerably smaller constituencies than the average in England and Scotland. Someone who says that he believes in fairness should accept that that is what the electorate deserve.

EU Referendum (Privy Council)

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Monday 14th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Mr Speaker, I think you would agree that my hon. Friend makes his remarks in his customary way and that what he has said perhaps says it all.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House prayed in aid the former Deputy Prime Minister’s categorical denial that that conversation ever took place. Could not this matter be put to bed very simply and straightforwardly by the Justice Secretary, who is an honourable man, coming to the House himself and categorically denying that the conversation ever took place?

[Chris Grayling]

All I can repeat is what I said earlier, which is that my predecessor said that the story was categorically untrue. I therefore do not think that there is anything to answer for.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 10th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I absolutely applaud what Huddersfield Town are doing. The point about clubs such as Huddersfield Town is that they play such an important community role as well. I know Huddersfield Town are very involved in charitable activities across the town. I pay tribute to everyone at the club for ensuring that they play such a role in the community and for doing what they can to give fans the opportunity to go to see the team play on an affordable basis—and may it succeed on the pitch as a result.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May I wish my daughter Siobhan a happy birthday next Tuesday? On the matter of Wales against England, I hope that the better team—not the “best” team—wins, and let it be Wales.

On EVEL, I have had an idea while sitting in the Chamber. Could we not use the Annunciator to have subtitles while we go through the EVEL procedure, which we did last night, so that Mr Deputy Speaker would not have the impossible task of explaining what in EVEL’s name is going on?

[Chris Grayling]

I think that the process is fine. We will review it after 12 months. If the hon. Gentleman has ideas about how to improve it, I will be very happy to listen to him. What I will not do is reverse the gesture we have made to the English of saying, “You have a part of the devolution package as well.” I do not think a position under which the Scots, the Welsh and the Northern Irish can have devolution while the English are left out is remotely acceptable. We have no intention of going back on it.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 3rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

It is obviously disturbing when one hears of such incidents. The Business Secretary will be here in 10 days’ time, and current procedures for director disqualification allow members of the public to lodge direct complaints when such issues arise, so that they can be investigated.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May we debate internet awareness? The Prime Minister’s explanation of his damascene conversion on Sunday trading between April and June last year is the existence of internet shopping—in other words, between April and June he discovered the internet. Is that not just an empty excuse for a broken promise that will affect workers not just in England and Wales, but also in Scotland and Northern Ireland?

[Chris Grayling]

Those measures also include provisions to improve workers’ rights, and the hon. Gentleman will have the opportunity to debate all those matters when the provisions are brought before the House. If he has concerns, he will be able to raise them then, and vote accordingly.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I have great respect for the Chair of the Procedure Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker), and I would not dare to try to tell him what or what not to study. I have no doubt at all that if he chooses to look at this issue, he will do so. It is certainly not for me to intervene to tell him what he should or should not do.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May I, too, put on the record my condolences to the victims of the explosion at the Celsa steelworks yesterday, in the neighbouring constituency to mine in Cardiff?

On China, may we have a debate about continuing Chinese abuses of human rights, particularly the case of Gui Haiming, who has disappeared along with three other employees of publishers Sage Communications in Hong Kong, which publishes books critical of the Chinese communist elite? Should not we in this country be doing more to raise such issues of human rights abuses by the Chinese regime, particularly when we are looking to develop our relationship with that country?

[Chris Grayling]

One of the things we were able to do during the recent visit was to raise concerns about human rights with the Chinese leadership. It remains the Government’s view that we are more likely to be able to influence change by engagement than by disengagement with China. The Foreign Secretary will be in the Chamber for Foreign Office questions on Tuesday, and the hon. Gentleman will no doubt use that opportunity to raise the issue again. The Government will always raise concerns about human rights with other nations where it is necessary and appropriate to do so.

Standing Orders (Public Business)

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

rose—

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

rose—

[Chris Grayling]

I will give way in a moment. Let me just make this point.

[Kevin Brennan]

rose—

[Hon. Members]

Sit down!

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Nobody tells anyone to sit down except the Chair. The hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) should know when to resume his seat; nor should he challenge the House from a sedentary position.

[Kevin Brennan]

Well tell them to shut up then.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. If the hon. Member for Cardiff West had whispered that remark, I would not have heard it. As he made it very loudly, I could not help but hear it, and I must ask him to apologise to the House for using that language.

[Kevin Brennan]

Of course I apologise to you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I hope we are not going to be second-class MPs in this House with that sort of attitude. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. We will have a calm and sensible debate this afternoon, and I hope that tempers will now be kept under control.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

I will take one more intervention before I make a bit of progress, and then I will take a couple more.

[Kevin Brennan]

Will the Leader of the House confirm that these changes to Standing Orders make it practically impossible for any Conservative Welsh Member of Parliament to be appointed a Minister of the Crown in any area where the jurisdiction is devolved?

[Chris Grayling]

No, I do not accept that at all. Indeed, it has already happened. The former Member of Parliament, John Reid, was Health Secretary while representing a Scottish constituency over which he had no jurisdiction in health matters. I happen to believe that we want the best people in this House to do the jobs. Nothing in the proposals will prevent that.

I will make a few points about the Procedure Committee and then take more interventions. I recognise that this is a change to the workings of the House. I have therefore sought to ensure that the views of the House about the process are taken into account. I have given evidence to the Procedure Committee and the Scottish Affairs Committee. I am grateful to the members of both Committees for their work. I have met representatives of the parties across the House and many individual Members over the past few weeks. I listened to the comments that were made earlier in the summer and provided extra time for debate. I extended the timeframe beyond the original 100-day commitment. I also ensured that this debate took place after the Procedure Committee had completed its work.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, which is that the Mackay commission lays out various different routes that one could go down, but makes it absolutely clear that one of his fundamental principles was that there should not be two tiers of MPs.

[Kevin Brennan]

I asked the Leader of the House earlier on about how a Welsh Conservative MP could be appointed a Minister of the Crown in an area that is not devolved. Does my hon. Friend understand how that could practically be the case under these proposals if that Minister was not permitted to participate in the Committee stage of a Bill under his own jurisdiction?

[Chris Bryant]

If I am honest, the reason I was upset that the Leader of the House did not lay out his plans was that, in the previous debate that we had earlier this year which I did not take part in but which I read, I noticed that he made several mistakes about his own proposals. I do not honestly think that he fully understands them. It is certainly true that people would be able to take part in debates, but they would not then be able to table amendments.

It was a delight to see the right hon. Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) telling us all how terrible it was that powers had been forced on other people by MPs from different parts of the country. When he was Secretary of State for Wales, despite not representing a Welsh seat, he introduced, much against Welsh views, the shape of local government that we have in England today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

Thank you for the early warning, Mr Deputy Speaker.

It is my privilege to follow the Father of the House, who, in his now customary fashion, stilled this House with his wisdom. I think we should listen carefully to what he said and take on board the points he made. The only response I would make is this: he said that before this measure we were all equal, but I am afraid that that is not the case. The West Lothian question was originally coined in the 1970s, but it has been with us since the moment the devolution settlements were enacted in Wales and Scotland. The fact that it has been ignored, ignored and ignored, and amplified by further and further devolution to Scotland and Wales, and now to Northern Ireland, is the reason we are now having this debate: we have this one unresolved issue before us.

The principle of English votes for English laws is clearly right. As I hear the objections of those who supported the settlements in Scotland and Wales that they are now going to be excluded from the consideration of matters in England that affect their constituents, I recall that that is exactly the same argument that we made against the establishment of Scottish and Welsh Parliaments, because those things are now decided in those jurisdictions whether or not they have any effect on my constituents. We have an unequal House already, and the question is how to address that.

This debate follows the Prime Minister’s statement following the referendum. Since then, we have learned that doing this in this way is fantastically complicated. I draw the House’s attention to proposed Standing Order 83J(8)(b), which says that the Speaker

“shall disregard any provision inserted by the House of Lords which, in the Speaker’s opinion, has the sole objective of ensuring that Standing Order”—

blah, blah, blah. In other words, the Speaker is meant to adjudicate on what he thinks was behind the intention of an amendment passed by the House of Lords. We are in danger of putting the Speaker in an impossible position. I do not dismiss the risks of judicial review in these circumstances because we are inviting such controversy through these arrangements. However, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) cannot have it both ways. He cannot say that this is a massive constitutional change and then read out a whole lot of statistics and say it will make no difference at all. He is in rather a difficult position.

We need to move on from this kind of debate to a different kind of discussion. We need far more dialogue and discussion, both in this Chamber and outside it, involving all the parties, Unionist and nationalist. We need it in public and in private, we need it in all parts of the United Kingdom, and we need to involve all four Parliaments and Assemblies. We need to choose language that seeks to build common ground, avoids divisive terms, does not prejudge outcomes, and makes each part of the United Kingdom feel valued, feel heard and feel understood. I fear that this debate is not going to do that.

The Constitutional Committee is launching an inquiry into the future of the United Kingdom.

[Kevin Brennan]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian C. Lucas]

I will leave the Barnett consequential argument to others because time is very limited, but clearly it was one that was heard very often in the Procedure Committee.

My constituents, who get their services from specialist hospitals in England, need to have representation through me, speaking on their behalf, in connection with those hospitals. If the proposals go through and the England Grand Committee excludes me from speaking on their behalf, my constituents will not have a voice in this Parliament. To my knowledge, this process is unprecedented. The Leader of the House knows I will not have the opportunity to move amendments in that Committee in connection with the future of, for example, those hospitals. That is the situation. I have spoken to my constituents and they believe very strongly that that is wrong.

[Kevin Brennan]

My hon. Friend has studied this very closely. Can he answer the point I was trying to make earlier? How can it possibly be envisaged that this will not interfere with the Prime Minister’s ability to make a Crown appointment of a Minister, when any Minister from a Welsh constituency, for example, who is appointed a Minister to a Department would be unable to participate in the Committee stage of a Bill he was promoting in Parliament? Is that not a nonsense?

[Ian C. Lucas]

It is a nonsense, and it is unprecedented. It will mean that an individual from outside England cannot be a Minister and move amendments in Committee on what is defined as an England-only Bill. If that is not creating two different classes of Member, I do not know what is.

This is the third version of amended Standing Orders—it came out last week after the Procedure Committee reported—and it is extremely complex. I have tabled two amendments to illustrate my two points, although I have not read them out because they would have taken up my entire four-minute allocation of time. None the less, the Standing Orders are horrifically complex and dangerous, and they go to the heart of the Union.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Now that we have created different classes of MP, would it be convenient for the House to consider issuing different coloured passes to different types of MP so that it is easier for them to be recognised in Committees and Divisions? Perhaps we could have white passes for English Members, blue for the Scottish, red for the Welsh, and green for those from Northern Ireland.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has made his point in his own way, and I feel sure that its thrust, or what Jack Straw used to call its gravamen, will be winging its way to Cardiff media outlets ere long. Meanwhile, his point is on the record and I will not respond.

Business of the House

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 17th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

This is one of the issues that tends to be avoided by those who oppose badger culls. There is a clear causal link in parts of the country between the growing number of badgers and the diminution in the number of hedgehogs. I am with my hon. Friend on this. I used to have hedgehogs in my garden when I was a child. The disappearance of hedgehogs in many parts of this country is a crying shame. We should do everything we can to help restore their population. Controlling the number of badgers seems to me to be a very good way of doing so.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May we debate Ministers meddling with the BBC? The Culture Secretary has just announced that the BBC’s “10 o’clock News” should not be at 10 o’clock. Would a debate about ministerial meddling not allow us to explore why a party that once was a supporter of public broadcasting and an independent BBC has been reduced to its Ministers just mouthing the mantras of Murdoch?

[Chris Grayling]

We strongly support the existence of public service broadcasting in this country, but it is also important that the BBC plays the right role in our society, leaves space for local media and competes fairly with commercial broadcasters. We want a fair environment for broadcasting, as well as an accurate and authoritative environment for broadcasting.

English Votes on English Laws

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the means by which the Government seeks to deliver the objectives outlined by the Leader of the House in his Statement on English Votes on English Laws.

I am exceptionally grateful to you, Mr Speaker, and to hon. Members throughout the House for the support that they have given me in bringing this matter to the Floor of the House today. It is a matter that is genuinely urgent, given the timescale that has been presented to the House by the Government, although it need not necessarily have been so. The urgency is of the Government’s own making. The matter had been under consideration already and would benefit from further mature consideration.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I would have liked to put in to speak in this debate, but I have to return at 2 o’clock to Committee to consider the Education and Adoption Bill, which I believe I would be barred from participating in under the terms of the Government’s proposals. Does not the depth of the proposals mean that we should have proper, thorough parliamentary scrutiny of these matters, rather than the proposals being railroaded through in this unconstitutional manner?

[Mr Carmichael]

I am not entirely sure whether the hon. Gentleman is right that he would be barred from that, certainly at this point, but I can see that that is the logic of where we eventually go, although I suspect that logic might be resisted by the Government and Opposition Whips Offices because I know from my own experience that getting people to serve on such Committees is not always easy. It will be interesting to see what influence the Government business managers bring to bear on that in the fullness of time.