House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 3rd March 2025 Lords Chamber

To that point, and in case we need any reminder of the importance of this principle to our global standing and our international soft power in particular, last week we saw the Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, visit the Oval Office, bending his knee to the leader of the free world in a brave effort to secure support for the war in Ukraine among other things.

[Lord Brennan of Canton (Lab)]

I too come from a long line of parents. My parents were the ones who were actually ploughing the lonely furrows that he referred to—probably on his ancestors’ lands. If he asks who will stand up for the monarch, I will, and my colleagues will. We all swore an oath to do so in this House.

[The Earl of Devon (CB)]

I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. That is the point of this amendment, and I am very pleased to hear it. I look forward to the Front Benches from each of our parties repeating exactly the same point.

As I said, Sir Keir Starmer was bending his knee to the leader of the free world. In that rarefied context, he offered the President of the United States just about the only thing that Donald Trump and his billionaire acolytes cannot purchase: an invitation from His Majesty to a state visit at Windsor Castle. Whatever one may think of the complex geopolitics that surrounded that visit and the remarkable events that have followed, it is readily apparent that the hereditary principle, as embodied by our sovereign Head of State—it is exactly the same hereditary principle by which I find myself here in your Lordships’ House—is of considerable ongoing importance. We weaken and abandon that at our peril.

The observant among your Lordships may note that the language of my proposed Amendment 3 does not explicitly address the hereditary principle as applied to our sovereign himself. This is because such an amendment would fall foul of the scope and relevance principles. Therefore, I express my huge thanks to the team of the Public Bill Office, who worked so patiently with me to craft an amendment that is admissible, if slightly idiosyncratic; it at least provides a hook upon which to hang this important debate. I am sure that His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, the Duke of Sussex and their children would appreciate the opportunity to debate the minutiae of product safety and metrology until the wee small hours with your Lordships’ company.

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[Viscount Astor (Con)]

My Lords, I knew that I was unimportant when my noble friend Lord Blencathra omitted me from his list, but now it has been confirmed. I am very grateful to him for doing that. As we approach the dinner hour, it is obviously time for very long speeches, and I intend for my speech to be very long and to cover a number of hugely important issues. I congratulate my noble friend Lord Soames on his amendment, because it would actually affect me, as a former Minister of the Crown, by inserting proposed new subsection (A1)(a). I thank my noble friend and support his amendment.

[Lord Brennan of Canton (Lab)]

I observe briefly to the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, that he is partial in his recollection of the career of the great Raymond Baxter. The other programme that he was famous for was called, “Tomorrow’s World”. I was an avid watcher of that programme as a young boy, and I never remember a prediction on “Tomorrow’s World” that, 50 years later, people would still be sitting in Parliament by virtue of the hereditary principle. On his list and his partial recollection of Raymond Baxter, I point out to the noble Lord that we live in tomorrow’s world, not yesterday’s.

[Baroness Finn (Con)]

My Lords, Walter Bagehot once observed that the British constitution derives its strength not from rigid design but from its adaptability. Its value lies in its ability to preserve what is valuable while reforming what is necessary. It is in that spirit, and not in defiance of reform but in defence of wisdom, that I support Amendment 5 in this group, in the name of my noble friend Lord Soames.

We are debating the fate of those who have committed themselves to the service of this House, as my noble friend Lord Blencathra has pointed out so brilliantly, and who have earned their place not by entitlement but by endeavour. The amendment before us seeks not to enshrine privilege but to preserve expertise. It does not defend hereditary peerage as principle; it defends the experience of those who, having risen above the circumstances of their birth, have dedicated their careers to the betterment of our legislative process.

Some would have us believe that the mere fact of a hereditary Peer holding office is an anachronism, but I ask this: what is more outdated, a Chamber that recognises merit in all its forms or one that would dismiss its most dedicated servants on the basis of an ideological formula? The numbers tell their own story. Despite comprising only 12% of this House in the last Parliament, hereditary Peers held 20% of government roles and 26% of Deputy Speakerships. This is not a symbol of idleness; it is a testament to diligence.

To those who believe that experience and institutional memory can simply be swept away and replaced at will, I say look at history. When institutions strip themselves of wisdom, when they discard those who have mastered their craft, they do not modernise but wither. There is a reason we do not empty the judiciary of its most seasoned jurists, nor the military of its most battle-hardened commanders. Why, then, should we purge this House of those who have proved their worth in government, scrutiny and debate? We do not strengthen Parliament by weakening its collective intelligence.

Those who propose the indiscriminate removal of hereditary Peers do so in the name of reform, but reform must be guided by the principle that what works should be preserved and what fails should be improved. The amendment before us today embodies that principle. It seeks not to halt the tide of change but to channel it wisely. It recognises that Ministers, Deputy Speakers, convenors and Chairs of Committees are not relics of the past but pillars of the present. To discard those who have upheld the dignity and function of your Lordships’ House is not reform; it is amputation.

Let us keep the best of what we have rather than discard it blindly. Let us not mistake destruction for progress. This amendment supports the very principles that have kept this House a vital force in British public life.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Thursday 9th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

My hon. Friend is fighting for a very good cause indeed. I will, of course, do as he asks and write to Secretaries of State at both DCMS and DEFRA, asking them to co-operate and assist my hon. Friend in this very important campaign.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

This afternoon, I will be attending the Art Fund 2019 museum of the year, St Fagans in my constituency, to celebrate the opening of the newest building in its outdoor offer, the recreation of the Vulcan pub from Cardiff city centre. While I am uneasy about attending a pub in a museum when I used to drink in it many years ago—it makes me feel rather old—it is a fantastic addition to that wonderful museum’s offer. It will be set up like a pub from 1913, although unfortunately not with 1913 prices over the bar. Can we have a debate on the wonderful contribution that our museums make to our life in this country, and also to celebrate free entry to such museums—which was, of course, brought in by the Labour Government?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am very jealous of the hon. Gentleman’s planned visit and congratulate the museum on winning museum of the year. I would encourage him to celebrate this with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport on 23 May.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Thursday 2nd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that. We know that where good reforms have been brought in, patient outcomes are vastly improved. We will all have examples of that from our primary care practices, and particularly our hospitals. We want to ensure that that is sped up, and that artificial intelligence helps with tailoring treatments and interventions and further increases good patient outcomes. The opportunities are massive. It is a very good topic for a debate, and he will know how to apply for one.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Has the Leader of the House had a chance to read the report of the all-party parliamentary group on music, which I chair, on artificial intelligence in music? It came out this week. If she has not, would she like me to send her a copy, so that she can consider holding a debate on the subject in Government time? It is a key issue. This technology can bring great benefits, but we must not allow it to be our master; it should be the servant of human creativity, and the creative community should have the right to protect their creations in any scheme that is agreed between industry and tech firms. Will she look at the report and consider a debate?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues on producing this timely and necessary report, which I am sure will be of interest to many Members of this House. I would be delighted to receive a copy, and I will ensure that the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport also has one. I will invite her to follow up with him.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

That is an important matter, and I thank the hon. Lady for raising it. She can raise it herself at the next Environment, Food and Rural Affairs questions on 9 May, and she will know how to apply for a debate, but I will ensure that the Secretary of State has heard what she has said.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Tonight is the annual awards of the Music Producers Guild. The awards would have been largely a male preserve for a lot of the 23 years that I have been in the House, but tonight, for the first time, over half the nominees are women, thanks to pioneering work by women producers and engineers such as Olga Fitzroy, Catherine Anne Davies and Hannah Peel, which is why we should have a debate on the Government’s decision to reject the recommendations in the Women and Equalities Committee’s “Misogyny in music” report. Naomi Pohl, the general secretary of the Musicians’ Union, has described being shocked at the fact that the Government have rejected the recommendations, and the Chair of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), said:

“We have had platitudes and reassurance, but still no action”.

Is the Leader of the House comfortable with what the Government have done? If she is not, will she facilitate a debate to explore it further?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I think the improvements in the statistics that the hon. Gentleman gave at the start of his question are something to be proud of and show that improvements are being made. I will certainly ensure that the relevant Department has heard what he has said. Given that I am a member of the Government, I stand on the Government’s position.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Thursday 18th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

I associate myself with your remarks, Madam Deputy Speaker, about the late father of Mr Speaker.

The Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee, the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), is with his family right now, because his daughter-in-law is still extremely ill. I am sure the whole House will send our sympathy and best wishes for a speedy recovery. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”]

On behalf of the Backbench Business Committee, I thank my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House for the allocation of time for the hospice funding debate. I hope that will take place on Monday. It is heavily subscribed, I believe, and a lot of Members will want to take part. We have now filled our Chamber time. On 2 May, there will be a debate on security in the western Balkans and another on pension schemes. On 9 May, if we are given the time, there will be debates on miners and mining communities and on the BBC mid-term charter review, both of which are popular matters for discussion. We have also allocated all the time available to us in Westminster Hall. If the Leader of the House has more time that she needs to allocate to the Backbench Business Committee, we can readily fill up that time if she wishes.

The Mayor of London made a solemn promise before the last mayoral election that he would not expand the ultra low emission zone to outer London. No sooner had he been re-elected than he started a consultation on expanding ULEZ to outer London. The fact that 66% of respondents objected seemed to have no bearing on his decision; he immediately introduced ULEZ to the whole of outer London, and people are suffering as a result. At this election, he is promising not to introduce pay per mile if he is re-elected. Can we trust him? Not a bit of it. The reality is that his adviser—

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

This is a speech. Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. If the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) was out of order and had to sit down, I would tell him so. I do not need the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) to tell me how to conduct the affairs of the Chamber.

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[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question and for raising the important work that her constituent does. I notice that my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest West (Sir Desmond Swayne) is not in his place and is therefore unable to tut, but no one else was tutting, and we welcome Callie to the House today. I will certainly ensure that the relevant Department has heard the ambitions that the hon. Lady has outlined, and that it furnishes her with all the advice it can.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Can the Leader of the House explain what has happened to some of the Government’s flagship law and order Bills on her watch? The Sentencing Bill is nowhere to be seen; in effect it is now the suspended sentencing Bill. The Criminal Justice Bill is now the criminal justice delayed Bill. The House will be aware of her previous career as a magician’s assistant. Can she explain why we are witnessing these baffling disappearing acts?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Gentleman knows that I will announce future business in the usual way. I hope to give all Members early sight and warning of when legislation is coming back to the House, and I will continue to do that.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Thursday 14th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Can we have a debate about Ofcom’s approach to GB News and its alleged breaches—found breaches, in fact—of the broadcasting code, as well as its ownership? Is it not time that we had a proper wide-ranging Ofcom inquiry into whether Sir Paul Marshall, who has endorsed very right-wing and extreme views, is a fit and proper person to hold a broadcasting licence, and whether the editorial policy is in breach of the rules set down by this House?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Gentleman is an experienced parliamentarian and will know how to secure a debate. The Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee is smiling and wiggling his eyebrows at him along the Bench. The work that Ofcom does is incredibly important. It has raised a number of concerns with that channel about particular broadcasters and presenters; it has not raised matters of concern with regard to the channel itself. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to explore those matters further, he knows what he can do.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Thursday 7th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Last week, I talked about my constituent Sue Sparkes, whose husband died as a result of the infected blood scandal. I know that the Leader of the House has a copy of the Red Book with her, as she mentioned that earlier. Can she point to the line in it that shows where the Chancellor has set aside any resource to deal with the compensation that she and he know will have to be paid as a result of this scandal? Is this not a moral obligation on the Chancellor to this House, to my constituent and to all those affected by this scandal?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Gentleman will know that provision has been made for this, and the final scheme is being worked on. I can understand why people want to raise this issue; it is a moral issue and it stirs understandable passions. However, I just caution hon. Members to recognise—I believe they know this—that the scheme is about to be brought forward. I have already announced today that the Paymaster General will be going around the country to talk to people directly about that and the plans he is bringing forward. I care passionately about this issue, as I did when I gave evidence to the inquiry, and I do not want victims of this appalling scandal to worry about what is going to happen. I want us to be able to reassure them, so I hope I will be able to continue to do that every week. I ask hon. Members, who rightly want to know the detail of the scheme, to reflect that in the questions they ask both me and the Paymaster General.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Thursday 29th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my right hon. Friend for leaving the House in no doubt about her frustration and disappointment about the situation with Southern Water. I have experienced similar feelings towards that company. What is particularly disappointing in this episode affecting her constituents is that although massive progress has been made in monitoring storm overflows—we have gone from just 6% being monitored to almost 100%—the quality of that monitoring is critical, and the assurances that she had been given about what was happening and about the type of water being expelled into a river have turned out not to be correct. There are questions for Southern Water and the Environment Agency. I will ensure that the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has heard what she has said, and will ask his officials to get in contact with her office.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

We need a fresh statement on the infected blood scandal. My constituent Sue Sparkes was in the House yesterday. She was widowed at the age of 31 when her husband, Les, passed away in 1991 having contracted hepatitis C and HIV from infected blood. The Leader of the House mentioned a “moral compass” in her statement. May I remind her that Members from across this House showed their moral compass when, for the only time in this Parliament, they defeated the Government on this issue? That is why the Government have made the statements that they have—but they are still not paying the full and fair compensation that has been called for by Sir Brian Langstaff. When will the Government make a statement on the compensation, and will the Budget indicate that it will happen immediately?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that question, and I thank all the directly affected people, and those supporting them and the various campaign groups, who took the time to visit Parliament yesterday. I think that we have done the right thing in gripping this issue through the inquiries that we have set up and the compensation study. The hon. Gentleman will know of my interest in this area. I assure him that I get regular updates from the Paymaster General, and I do not think it will be too long before he will be able to come to the House to make further announcements—he is making progress. This is the final stage of the process; it is the most difficult. I know that the Paymaster General is determined to deliver the right outcome for all those infected and affected by that appalling scandal.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for her diligence in raising this issue again. She will know that last week I wrote on her behalf to the Department, as well as to the Cabinet Office, to see what more they could do to learn from this and other matters. I will do so again.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House have another go at improving written ministerial answers? I recently asked the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities a very simple question about what meetings Ministers had had with Welsh and Scottish counterparts on the implementation of the new ombudsman scheme. The answer from the Minister for Housing, Planning and Building Safety was:

“Ministers and officials have regular engagement with the devolved administrations on a range of issues.”

That passes the Lloyd George test: it was short, accurate and told me absolutely nothing I did not know already. In this day and age, can we not at least have a culture among Ministers of answering perfectly straightforward and factual questions in a perfectly straightforward and factual way, and will she help to facilitate that, please?

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Gentleman will know that a great deal of time and effort is taken in the drafting departments in Government Departments. My noble Friend Lord True and I run regular training sessions, as do the officials in my office. We are always on the lookout for good and bad practice so that we can ensure that people know what Members of Parliament need, and we inform those individuals of what is helpful to us in dealing with casework and in which format we might need information. I am always open to example of good and bad practice being passed to my office, and I will certainly raise it with the relevant Department.

Business of the House

Lord Brennan of Canton Excerpts

Tuesday 16th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call Kevin Brennan.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Given that the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee is not present and that the announcement has an impact on Thursday’s Backbench business, can the Leader of the House give us any information about the timing of the debate? Will there be a timetable motion, as there would be if the business were taken in a Committee upstairs—probably allowing an hour and a half in normal circumstances—and why has the Leader of the House decided that it should be taken on the Floor of the House rather than upstairs?