Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Spellar and James Cartlidge

Monday 20th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

My hon. Friend highlights the fantastic news, confirmed last week, that we are developing a new radio frequency directed energy weapon. It is an extraordinary capability that with one strike can inflict hard kill on multiple drones, at a cost of about 10p a shot. As for how that exemplifies the new approach, it is about the close relationship between industry, our scientists, and the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory. It is through the strength of the industry that we drive innovation and get the best kit into the hands of our armed forces.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

We are pleased that there was an announcement from the Prime Minister, and that the Department has plans, but what we actually need is industrial capacity. When the Department is handing out orders for fleet solid support ships to Spain; when it has taken 18 months to order munitions; when The Times today shows a significant drop in the number of apprenticeships; and when the Department admits that it still will not take past performance into account when awarding future contracts, what confidence can we have that there will be the industrial capacity, and the real orders, to enable our defence industry to be competitive and supply our forces?

[James Cartlidge]

We are massively ramping up defence capacity. The right hon. Gentleman spoke about 155 mm shells; that issue is precisely why we have reached a contractual agreement with BAE Systems, and it will be ramping up production in Wales and north-east England. We are doing the same with ships, complex weapons and, as I said earlier, novel weapons and our science base. This is all about giving our armed forces the capability that will give them the cutting edge.

UK Armed Forces

Debate between Lord Spellar and James Cartlidge

Monday 11th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

As I have said, we have just committed 40% of the land force personnel to the Steadfast Defender exercise. NATO is the key to the defence of this nation, and indeed the whole continent, in conventional terms. We should recognise the enormous contribution of our armed forces, and the fact that we have increased spending significantly. However, I hear what colleagues are saying, as does the Secretary of State. We have set out the case for 2.5%, but we want that 2.5% to be sustainable, so that the economy can afford it over the long term, and that will be possible through growth and sensible measures on fiscal policy.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

The Minister conceded earlier that funding for Ukraine and the escalating nuclear cost were at the expense of restoring the viability of our frontline readiness, but deterrence is a lot cheaper than war. Surely our support for Ukraine and the deterrent should be a charge on the general fund, rather than further hollowing out our conventional armed forces.

[James Cartlidge]

I do not believe I made that point about nuclear. The right hon. Gentleman has said that these factors are at the expense of the frontline, but nuclear is the frontline. We have had the continuous at-sea deterrent patrolling in defence of this country every year since 1969, as I recall. We have had it for a long time, and it is fundamental to our defence. The idea that that is not frontline spending is extraordinary.

Ukraine: Military Equipment

Debate between Lord Spellar and James Cartlidge

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

It is a pleasure to take my first contribution from my right hon. Friend in the Chamber since he became Chairman of the Select Committee. I look forward to further discussion with him later this afternoon on other matters before the Committee. He is right to stress the importance of that contract—155 mm shells are one of the fundamental munitions we need to see both replenished for the UK armed forces and, where possible, provided into Ukraine, along with other key artillery classes. I can confirm that we signed that contract with BAE last July and it should lead to an eightfold increase in 155 mm production, initially in the Washington plant, but thereafter in south Wales. I am keen to see that get going as soon as possible.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

The MOD has clearly done a decent job of supporting Ukraine, but I still doubt that the Government as a whole are seized of the urgent critical nature of this crisis. I return to the question I asked the Secretary of State last week: why, when it was clear early in 2022 that this was going to be very much an artillery war dating back to the last century, did it take until mid-2023 to place the order for additional artillery shells? The Minister should have the answer by now.

[James Cartlidge]

I refer to the previous answer I gave, where I was clear that we placed that order last July, as the right hon. Gentleman rightly said; that is for our own armed forces and it is an eightfold increase. But we have provided 300,000 artillery shells into Ukraine. We have procured them, Sir. We have done that not just from this country; we have done it through rapid procurement, through Defence Equipment and Support. All I can say is that I pay tribute to that effort. We all know that we need to go further. The other point is that this is not just about what we have procured; this country has played a leading role in ensuring that other nations join us and provide more munitions. That is as much a key part of the role that we have played.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Spellar and James Cartlidge

Monday 8th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

AUKUS has strong support from across the House, but although the time scales seem very long, in reality there is growing concern in the defence community that they may already be slipping, often because of bureaucratic inertia. What is being done to keep this vital project on track? How often is the Minister meeting his officials to monitor and chase progress?

[James Cartlidge]

I am not aware of any slippage. We meet frequently and discuss this incredibly important matter. I am pleased to hear his confidence that AUKUS has cross-party support. It is generating huge numbers of jobs for the future: an additional 1,700 jobs will be created in Raynesway to build the reactors for the UK and Australia. It is an incredibly exciting project and we are 100% committed to it.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Spellar and James Cartlidge

Tuesday 19th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

It is a pleasure to take a question from my right hon. Friend. He was an excellent Minister for Defence Procurement and an excellent Minister generally, and I always enjoyed the many Cobra meetings that were overseen by him, but he speaks with equal strength from the Back Benches, and his question is very important. When it comes to opportunities for future industrial production in Ukraine, I would like to see an opportunity for us to work together for our mutual benefit to create ordnance not just for Ukraine but for ourselves, because maximising that demand signal is the best way in which to secure the strongest possible military industrial base.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

I readily acknowledge the support that we have given to Ukraine to try and ensure that Putin cannot win. That is an objective shared in all parts of the House, but the scale of the conflict requires more, especially in the form of artillery and munitions. Why did it take the Government more than a year to sign the contract for new capacity for shell production, not only for Ukraine but to restock our own supplies?

[James Cartlidge]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right, and he speaks with experience as a former Defence Minister, but we have signed the contract on the 155 shell, as the Prime Minister announced last July. That contract sits alongside many others, including the lightweight multi-role missile and STARStreak contracts. This is, of course, for our own defence, but, as I have said, we recently delivered the 300,000th artillery shell to Ukraine, and we should be proud of that effort.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Spellar and James Cartlidge

Monday 20th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

T7. The Ukraine conflict has reinforced the need for a thriving defence industry to underpin our security. Will the Secretary of State now take the opportunity to revisit his predecessor’s policy of placing so many orders abroad, rather than in British industry with British workers, and in particular, the building of the fleet solid support ships in foreign yards?

[James Cartlidge]

The right hon. Gentleman talks about the fleet solid support ships being built in foreign yards. I can assure him that recently, I had the great pleasure of visiting Harland & Wolff at its Appledore yard in north Devon. That is in the UK, and it is where a significant part of the FSS contract will be made.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Spellar and James Cartlidge

Monday 26th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

16. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the defence procurement system.

[The Minister for Defence Procurement (James Cartlidge)]

We are driving the delivery of capability to the frontline. Over a two-year period to December 2022, we have seen a one-year reduction in the average programme duration, but we can do more to improve and are committed to learning the lessons of the Sheldon review.

[James Cartlidge]

I do not accept that. I am happy to write to the hon. Member with the details. Our position is that, obviously, we want to use UK steel and we recognise its quality, but there will be cases where the appropriate steel has to be sourced from elsewhere. Ultimately, we have to deliver the equipment required for our capability.

[John Spellar]

It is probably a bit of a shame but, after missing out on the job of Secretary-General of NATO, the Secretary of State seems to have reverted to “no more Mr Nice Guy” mode today, although it may improve as the day goes on.

I ask the Minister, in an amicable way, why, when every major military-industrial power is relentlessly focused on building domestic industrial capacity following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, he is stubbornly refusing to do the same. His previous answer on steel shows again that the mindset has not changed. Why will he not back British industry and British military resilience?

[James Cartlidge]

I am happy to be Mr Nice Guy when it comes to British industry. A central tenet of the defence and security industrial strategy is that industrial capacity is part of our defence capability. I am absolutely clear about that. Of course we want to have a strong domestic industry. There are occasions when acquisition has to be undertaken at pace and, as we have seen in getting equipment out to Ukraine, we have had to be flexible in how we source that equipment. But we are absolutely committed to a strong industrial base for defence, both at SME level and with our primes.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

T3. Can the Minister give us a progress report on the contract for the fleet solid support ships? Given that three of those are equivalent to two aircraft carriers in size, can he confirm where the steel is coming from?

[The Minister for Defence Procurement (James Cartlidge)]

The right hon. Gentleman is very persistent. I will have to check that point for him.

Armoured Cavalry Programme: Sheldon Review

Debate between Lord Spellar and James Cartlidge

Thursday 15th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

It is no exaggeration to say that no one in this Chamber has greater passion on the subject of procurement and acquisition reform than my right hon. Friend. I look forward to appearing before his Sub-Committee next week to discuss the important role of Defence Equipment and Support, on which, of course, so much of the report is focused. He is absolutely right: we need fundamentally to improve acquisition. A key reason for that is technology. We have to have a system that is faster, leaner and more agile so that we can respond more quickly to evolving technology. It must be self-evident to us all from the theatre in Ukraine—the way that uncrewed systems, one-way attack drones and all the rest of it are being used—that war is changing rapidly and we need to respond to that. Our acquisitions system needs to be able to do so, too.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

May I first express concern that there was in the Minister’s statement no estimate of the extra cost that will be incurred or of the capability gap? To echo the comments of others, the excellent workforce in Merthyr Tydfil are certainly not to blame in this debacle. Indeed, one of the issues highlighted in the report is that they were not listened to when they expressed concerns about the progress of the project. What I am unclear about is why, yet again, no one is to blame. It is probably because Ministers change so quickly that they can evade responsibility. Certainly, the system, and individuals’ roles in it, are to blame.

Why did we need a KC and a year of examination to deal with the blindingly obvious failures in the procurement system, of which this programme is merely an extreme example? Why did Ministers not do a rapid assessment and get on with the job? Will the Minister actually get on with changing the system and not let the natural inertia within the civil service get back to business as usual, as we have seen so often before and as we are seeing again in health with the vaccines programme—this system is failing the British people and, in this case, the British armed forces—or will a successor stand up there and make the same lame excuses in a few months’ time?