National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Debate between Jim Shannon and Damian Hinds

2nd reading
Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

We have a mission-led Government. I am not sure whether anybody knows exactly what that means, but we do know what the mission is meant to be: delivering for working people. But I am afraid that the Government have forgotten how working people become working people. It is the people—the other people—who employ them. All of us in this House want excellent public services, but it is only the Conservatives who understand that to get excellent public services, business needs to generate the wealth. The Government have a bit of a “four legs good, two legs bad” mantra that sees business as a cash cow to be milked to pay for the public sector. They have forgotten that fundamental dependency. They have even messed up the “four legs good, two legs bad” theory, because they seem to have forgotten that a very large part of what delivers our public services is people—people who are not directly employed by the public sector.

Let us take nurseries as an example. We have had another mission this week on early years education, which I welcome, but it will be hampered in its delivery by this national insurance contributions rise. Then there are the universities. They received a bonus of £390 million from a fee increase a couple of weeks ago, but they will be paying £400 million in extra national insurance contributions.

I have also heard from many GPs across my constituency in East Hampshire, who see the Government giving with one hand and taking away with the other. The Minister says that the Government will take care of this in the settlement for GPs, which is fine, but it should have come on top of what they should have been doing for GPs anyway. Lord Darzi and the Secretary of State have been talking about increasing the focus on primary care. We know how the Treasury works when it is making its spending allocations to Departments; things will be tucked in under that settlement, so we need to see it rise. How do the Government think GP practices plan? Here we are in December, and the new financial year starts at the beginning of April. Do Ministers not think that, in the national health service, general practitioners need certainty now about what is going to happen?

The wider point is this: the Treasury can reimburse GPs, but it cannot reimburse the private sector. Ultimately, there is no such thing as a tax on business. Taxes can only ever ultimately fall on people. They fall on the owners of that business, the customers of that business, or the employees of that business. The analogy for the Treasury reimbursing GP practices for their increased costs is the employees of a private company reimbursing their employer for that cost. It is they who will ultimately pay. Economists are united in saying that employer national insurance contributions are only ever, in the end, seen in lower wages or lower employment figures. The Government talk about difficult decisions, but difficult decisions are the ones that employers will be faced with: do I cut down my wage settlements or do I let people go?

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Not more than half an hour ago, I met a businessman from Northern Ireland whose firm employs 1,200 people. He said national insurance contributions will cost the firm almost £1 million a year. The cost will ultimately be passed on in its food prices, which will rise by between 15% and 20%, and the ordinary man or woman on the street will pay for it. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that that is where the Labour party has got this wrong?

[Damian Hinds]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right. This is not some trivial increase that is easy for an organisation to absorb. While 1.2 percentage points may not sound like much, with the serious decrease in the threshold at which it starts being paid, it is a lot of money. The cost of employing the average worker on medium earnings goes up by £900. For a 21-year-old on the legal minimum wage working full time, the cost goes up by £770. Moreover, it is regressive because it will fall more harshly on people at the lower end of the wage spectrum and on people who are part time. It cannot be seen in isolation; it must be seen alongside all the other things the Government are doing. Of course, the national living wage has risen. That increase is a good thing in itself, but the effect compounds with the other measures being taken.

Two of the three volume employer sectors in this country—retail and hospitality—are also seeing a massive reduction in the business rates relief they are getting next year. When unemployment hits, young people are always hit first and most, and that will be true again. It will hit those furthest from the labour market, those who need most help, those coming back to work after a long period and those who were ex-offenders. I sometimes wonder if Ministers talk to each other about the contradiction and irony of one of them producing a document called, “Get Britain Working” while their colleague is hellbent on doing the opposite.

VAT: Independent Schools

Debate between Jim Shannon and Damian Hinds

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House regrets that the Government has decided to impose VAT on independent school fees; believes that educational provision should not be taxed; regrets that the Government is rushing to implement this change part-way through an academic year; calls on the Government to exempt from the VAT charge fees paid in respect of children of military and diplomatic families, all children who have an Education, Health and Care Plan, or who are in the process of applying for one, all children on SEN support, Centres for Advanced Training and schools in the Music and Dance Scheme, all children at schools whose fees are lower than the average per capita funding for a state school place, and children at religious schools of denominations for whom there is no faith school provision in the state sector; further calls on the Government to postpone imposition of the VAT charge for schools in areas where state schools in the relevant key stage are already on average over 95% full; also calls on the Government to postpone imposition of the VAT charge for fees paid in respect of children who have started a public examination course, to September 2025 for pupils currently in Year 11 or Year 13, and to September 2026 for pupils currently in Year 10 or Year 12; and calls on the Government to publish a full impact assessment of the effects of this policy on independent schools and the state sector ahead of the Budget.

There are 85 days to go until the introduction of Labour’s education tax, and we are still in the dark. Many questions remain for parents, for children and for schools—when I say “schools”, that is both independent schools and state schools—and also for the local authorities that are responsible for special educational needs provision and generally for ensuring that everyone can get a place at school.

This is a huge change, which is being made in a headlong rush. There are big worries about children with special educational needs or a disability, about military families, about the talented musicians and dancers of tomorrow, about small religious faiths and about the widest impact of all—that on state schools, because this means disruption, bigger classes, budget overstretch, and ultimately, parents being less likely to get their preferred choice of school. Even those who do not necessarily object to this in principle are saying it cannot be pushed through this fast, from the Chartered Institute of Taxation to the NASUWT.

It is a long-standing principle that you do not put tax on learning—a principle all but universally observed around the world. On the Conservative Benches we believe in that principle and we believe in the sanctity of parental choice. The vast majority of children, of course, go to state-funded schools, and we defend the right of parents to choose those schools and defend the diversity of those schools. A small number of parents choose home schooling; we defend that right too. And yes, some choose the independent sector.

Parents are the first educators of their children. The state sets an expectation of a suitable education for all children, and beyond that, parents should make the choice of what is best for their child. Parents might decide to opt out of state education for any one, or many, of several reasons—quite often simply because they have found the school that they believe is right for their child, and where their child is most happy.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Hinds]

My right hon. Friend is right to identify that many parents make great personal financial sacrifices to do what they believe is best for their children. Some parents whose children go to independent school are rich, and some are definitely not. I include in that latter bracket most of the parents sending their children, for example, to small religious schools in Hackney, Salford or Birmingham. Very many more are in the middle, including many professionals working in our public services.

[Jim Shannon]

The shadow Minister has rightly underlined the issue for those who send their children to faith schools or independent schools. Many constituents in Strangford have told me that they have saved and persevered, have not been on holidays, have not bought a second car, or have even continued to use their old car longer than they should, so that those moneys can go into their children’s education. Does he, like me, find it impossible to understand how it can be that it is the Labour party—the party of conscience, I would say—that has let us down on this issue and is going to penalise people who are hard-pressed to find education for their children?

[Damian Hinds]

The hon. Gentleman is right about the financial sacrifices some make. Let us be clear: it is possible to tax wealthier people or people with a higher income more, but the Government should be honest about it. The way to do so is through the income tax system, not through a choice that people make to have their child in an independent school. The hon. Gentleman did not mention this, but I might add that because the situation in Northern Ireland is different from that in England—by the way, the situation in Scotland is different, too—the Government need to think carefully about how the policy is applied throughout the whole United Kingdom, because VAT is a reserved matter, and about what it means for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and others across these islands.