Rural Areas in Scotland: Additional Delivery Charges

Debate between Jamie Stone and Douglas Ross

Tuesday 2nd July 2019 Westminster Hall

[Douglas Ross]

That is even worse! In all seriousness, my hon. Friend raises a valid point. He can get something delivered to London, but not to his constituency of Banff and Buchan. I will mention some examples that have been raised with me since I last held a debate on this matter, because there are some anomalies with the practice that these companies use. It is frustrating that the charge is added on at the end of the purchase.

I want to give a couple of examples. The first one was really remarkable. A constituent of mine in Fochabers went online and found the product they wanted. Their postcode for Fochabers in Moray is IV, like the rest of the highlands. When they put their postcode in, they immediately incurred a greater charge. He phoned up the company, which said, “We put this charge on all IV postcodes, but not AB postcodes.” My constituent happens to have another address in Clochan, which is three or four miles from Fochabers, but has an AB postcode. When he put in that address, there was no delivery charge.

What makes this even more remarkable is that the product was delivered by Parcelforce from its depot in Inverness, and to get from Inverness to Clochan, one has to go through Fochabers, to go further down the road to Clochan. There my constituent had free delivery, but had he wanted the product delivered closer to the Parcelforce depot, he would be charged extra simply because of his postcode. Not only do the couriers not understand that Moray and the highlands are part of mainland Scotland; they do not even understand the local geography and will deliver something further away at no cost, as compared with delivering something to a different postcode.

A constituent has emailed me another example, which I have written to the Advertising Standards Authority about. This constituent is a charity fundraiser. She wanted to purchase five tins to collect money for her charity. The tins cost £2.98 each. She was happy with that price and was going to purchase them for the charity. However, there was a £10.50 charge to deliver those five tins, because the charity, Outfit Moray, is based in Moray and has an IV postcode for its headquarters in Lossiemouth. The price to deliver the product was equivalent to the cost of three and half charity tins. It is simply wrong that charities, individuals, consumers and constituents are being punished in this way.

I want to give some examples of action taken in response to the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross and other Members from all parties having raised this matter. Every time I get a case regarding this—I get many—I write to the Minister, with whom I am in regular correspondence, and I write to the Advertising Standards Authority, because it is wrong and unacceptable that the charge is added only after the purchase is made.

I have had two examples in the last couple of months where the Advertising Standards Authority has written back to say that it agrees. The first case involved chums.co.uk, which said it was offering free standard UK delivery for orders over £50. However, when the ASA received my complaint it investigated and agreed that IV postcodes appear to be charged a delivery fee. As well as that, “The delivery information section of the website states that there is a standard postage fee for the UK mainland and that is clearly not the case.” The ASA continues: “The delivery information on the company’s website looks like it is misleading and our compliance team are taking action by sending an enforcement notice.” Another case came up last month, this time involving amenity.co.uk. The ASA said that it agreed there was a problem with its delivery claims, and it too will be sent an enforcement notice.

I use those examples not because I condone what was happening, but to show what happens when we raise the matter and get in touch with the companies—I always write to the company and say that I am reporting it to the Advertising Standards Authority. It is encouraging that the ASA is now taking enforcement action to deal with this. However, we are only picking at the surface. Of all the constituents who contact me and those in the hon. Gentleman’s geographically vast constituency, which is punished in the same way as Moray, many will just give up, move on and buy something elsewhere. They should not be forced to do that. They should be able to purchase a product that anyone else in Scotland or across the UK could purchase for the same delivery price.

[Jamie Stone]

May I start my intervention with an anecdote? Many years ago, a letter from the United States of America arrived in my home town, addressed to “The representative of the Lord Jesus Christ, Tain”, and some wag in the post office wrote “Try Jamie Stone” on it.

The point about delivery companies is that they do not always leave the parcel where they should. I have heard too many examples of old ladies finding their parcel months later in the garden shed or some other completely inappropriate place.

[Douglas Ross]

As the Leader of the House sometimes says at business questions, that is an excellent topic for an Adjournment debate. The hon. Gentleman rightly raises an important issue that we could debate for many hours and links it to the important issue of excessive, rip-off delivery charges.

I support the hon. Gentleman’s efforts to support what MPs across the parties are trying to do on the issue. Considerable work has been done in the Scottish Parliament, both by the Scottish Government and on a cross-party basis. The Scottish Government have launched an excessive parcel delivery charges map, and they want constituents to contact their MSPs so that they can put their information on it—they say that that will highlight where the problem exists. However, although there are some examples outwith the north-east of Scotland, the highlands and islands, and Moray, I think that we can comfortably say that those are the areas most affected. I am sure that the map will tell us what we already know, but what we need is solutions.

It is right that the Advertising Standards Authority should take action when cases are raised, but we need it to be proactive rather than reactive. I am pleased to have been invited to join a new body that it has set up for MPs to work with it on the issue. Ultimately, we have to get a simple message across to the companies and the couriers. First, it is not acceptable for the companies to say, “That is a charge that our courier puts on.” They should change their courier. If a courier cannot tell the difference between mainland UK and the islands, or if it thinks that Moray and the highlands are an island, it does not deserve to be a courier. Secondly, the couriers need to wise up. Inflicting these charges on people in Moray, in the highlands and across the north-east of Scotland is unacceptable, inappropriate and damaging to their reputations and to the reputations of the companies that they pretend to serve.

I know that the Minister takes the issue seriously. She has met me and we have done some good work on the issue, but we need to do more. It is unacceptable that this practice continues in this day and age—we need to stop it once and for all.

Local Bank Closures

Debate between Jamie Stone and Douglas Ross

Wednesday 12th June 2019 Westminster Hall

[Douglas Ross]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady, because that issue came up when I held a public meeting in Lossiemouth, following the announcement that the final branch in the town would close. The local football club, Lossiemouth F. C., said that it had checked with its insurers, who said that they would either increase the premium to a level that it could not afford or simply not insure it at all, because it would now not be able to deposit cash at the end of the night: the cash would have to remain on the premises. I hope the Minister addresses that issue, but we also have to put it to the insurers, because it is no fault of the football club or other operators in these towns that the banks are now closed and people cannot deposit money.

I want to return to Lossiemouth, a huge town in Moray, being left without cash this weekend. Denise Bedson of the Lossiemouth Business Association told The Press & Journal:

“The situation at the weekend was disgraceful. A lot of small businesses can’t afford card facilities. I know there are cheaper solutions but the phone signal isn’t always the best here for them to work properly. We’re trying to get more banking facilities here because the situation is very difficult”.

It was so difficult that there were reports of people going into the local store to buy one tin of baked beans just to get cash back. They had to buy something that they did not want or need, simply to get money from the store, because the cash machines were not working. Councillor James Allan, my colleague, who represents Heldon and Laich, has been a great local champion for this cause for years. We have gone from four banks and seven ATMs down to just two ATMs. In a community the size of Lossiemouth, that is simply unacceptable. This is just the first weekend. We have serious concerns that this will go on further.

Mention was made of tourism and tourist businesses. Lossiemouth is a great attraction for tourists, with whom it is very popular. We have takeaways and taxi firms, which do not accept credit cards or debit payments. They will suffer as a result of this. Lossiemouth Community Council and its councillors Mike Mulholland and Carolle Ralph have been highlighting the bank closures for some time; they also held a public meeting about them, following my meeting. The issue has been of considerable concern since the announcement was made last November. We knew that this was coming, but the banks have deserted Lossiemouth and other communities across Moray, Scotland and the UK. I believe that they have to do more about it.

While I am speaking about Lossiemouth, the area in Moray that is most affected because it has no branch left, I also want to mention post offices. They play a vital role, but there are some limitations. I know how hard Tony Rook, owner of the post office in Lossiemouth, and his staff are trying—as he commented in The Northern Scot this week, they are doing their level best—but when there is a spike in use and they are away for the weekend, there is nothing that they can do to put more money into their cash machine. He has one of the two cash machines in Lossiemouth. It costs his business to have it facing outwards to the street, but he does it as a public service. It is a great service, but even with great efforts from him and his staff, we were still left without money in a Moray town at the weekend. That is something that we need to look at.

It is not just Lossiemouth that has been affected. At the same time as the closure in Lossiemouth was announced, there was another in Keith. I held a public meeting there as well; I was grateful for the attendance of local councillor Donald Gatt, as well as Paul McBain, representing the post office, and Pearl Hamilton from the Federation of Small Businesses.

When we consider the impact of branch closures or the reduction of ATMs, we often think only about the customers who want to take money out, but the small businesses in our communities suffer just as much, if not more. FSB Scotland retweeted my tweets about today’s debate because it has great interest in the matter. Small businesses are losing not only the branch that they bank with and deposit their takings at, but the opportunity for people to take money out and spend it in their shops. They are the lifeblood of our local communities, so it is unfortunate and deeply reprehensible that they are being drawn into this.

I also want to speak about the bank’s response. I have to say that its contempt both for its own customers and for local communities is disgusting. As the local Member of Parliament, I got a phone call about the Bank of Scotland’s closures in Lossiemouth and Keith, days before it even wrote to its customers; I know my MSP colleague did, too. It came to the politicians to tell us, “This is what we are doing—oh, and by the way, we will tell our customers after the bank holiday weekend.” It thought that they could wait a few days before even bothering to tell its customers about news of such magnitude.

The banks get involved in the process that has been laid down to consult and inform communities of their decision, but they never change their mind. It is a fait accompli—they have decided what they are doing. When communities rightly stand up against these cuts and removals to express their concern about how deeply damaging they will be, the banks turn a deaf ear: they are not interested, and they do not want to hear it. I have to say that I think their behaviour shocking and unacceptable.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a most persuasive speech. When a local authority in Scotland wants to close a school, there has to be a proper public consultation process. Does he agree that something similar would be appropriate for proposed closures of bank branches?

[Douglas Ross]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valuable point with which I wholly agree. Like him, I have been involved with school closures as a local councillor, and they are not easy decisions to take. When we were proposing to close Cabrach Primary School in Moray, we had to have a full consultation, even though it had no pupils left at all—the final two, a brother and sister, had moved to another school. There has to be a full consultation with the community to close a school with no pupils, but a bank branch with so many customers that is so valuable to the local area can be closed when the bank comes in and ignores every view put to it.

My most abiding memory of Lloyds’s reaction to what it was doing in Lossiemouth and Keith was that it was not even willing to engage. I wrote to it when I quickly assembled the public meetings, which were attended by people from community councils, the post office and business associations. The meetings in Lossiemouth and Keith both had an empty chair for the bank; because it could not even be bothered to turn up and face the public about its decision, I thought it only right to show the public that it was absent by leaving a chair empty.

People wanted to challenge the figures about reducing footfall or the number of transactions. There were several people in the community who did not believe the figures that were put forward. The bank should have either substantiated its claims and stood up to support them, or gone back to the community and said, “This is where we were correct, and this is where you were correct.” That it was unwilling to do that demonstrates its whole attitude to this crisis.

The bank’s next response is, “Well, we’ll put in mobile banking.” A town the size of Lossiemouth, which has gone from four branches to none, now has a mobile bank coming for an hour or two a week. We have a great climate in Lossiemouth, but it is not always sunny and beautiful; it is sometimes cold and wet, and yet we expect elderly bank customers to stand outside and wait while others go in and carry out their business. There are also elements of privacy that a mobile banking service cannot replace. It is wrong that we should keep hearing, “We are closing your branch, but we will continue to have a presence.” That presence is pitiful, and it does not match the needs and aspirations of the community that uses it.

As I have mentioned before in Westminster Hall, in a debate about access to cash, RBS in Moray has a mobile branch van called the Moray Rambler. There have been so many closures of bank branches across the north-east of Scotland that the Moray Rambler now has to ramble into Banffshire and Aberdeenshire to cover areas outwith my constituency. Not only have we a poor service, but it is being stretched further and further and towns are getting less and less time with the mobile bank.

Post offices rightly have a role to play that we all value. Paul McBain represented the National Federation of SubPostmasters at my public meetings, and he did so well. Some tasks can be done at the post office instead of the bank, but some simply cannot be replicated: transferring money from an account, seeking advice about bank accounts, opening or closing accounts, registering a power of attorney or grant of probate, making complaints or inquiring about savings, current accounts, credit cards, mortgages, personal loans or investments. There is a role for the post office and there are tasks that it can do, but there are many that it simply cannot. It is wrong for the bank to say, “We’ll put in a mobile branch, or you can use the post office as an alternative.” It is not a like-for-like alternative; it is misleading and wrong to say so, and we will be in trouble if we go down that route.

Research into post office usage by Which? reveals that only 55% of adults are aware that they can use the post office for banking—almost half of the population do not know that—and that 47% are unlikely to use a post office for banking in the future. I hope that we can change those figures; as I said in an Adjournment debate in the main Chamber a couple of months ago, we need to encourage the public to use our post offices. However, many people out there do not want to use them for certain aspects of their banking needs. Some 42% of people did not want to go into a post office for banking because queues were too long, while 32% believed that they were not private enough.

Scottish Economy

Debate between Jamie Stone and Douglas Ross

Wednesday 27th June 2018 Westminster Hall

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. I congratulate the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Ged Killen) on securing this important debate. What I am about to say might be slightly more boring than previous contributions to this debate.

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

Never!

[Jamie Stone]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point. I want to talk about the positive points of the Scottish economy, as well as some of the challenges we face. As always, I will turn hon. Member’s eyes to my constituency in the far north.

First, I want to talk about food and drink. There is no doubt that we have great strengths in the highlands, particularly in my constituency. I will take a leaf out of the book of the hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) and name some distilleries in my constituency, which make the most excellent products: Glenmorangie, Balblair, Dalmore, Clynelish and Old Pulteney in Wick. If we combine that with the quality of food that is offered, all the way from the Cocoa Mountain in Durness, which makes the most delicious hot chocolate, to The Albannach, which has one Michelin star, in Lochinver, and from Luigi’s in Dornoch to Greens Market in Tain, we can offer a really good tourism product. The success of the north coast 500 is based on what we can offer. There is a message for a wider Scotland in that: if we can get these things right, we can boost the local economy.

Patient Transport Volunteer Drivers

Debate between Jamie Stone and Douglas Ross

Monday 23rd April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jamie Stone]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, which was thoughtful and to the point. Ultimately, however, whether the matter is devolved or reserved, I am left with the problem of trying to help people whom I know and love to reach hospitals and medical centres so that they can be given the treatment that they need.

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for securing a debate on such an important issue. I was concerned to hear about the volunteer drivers who have given up driving for the reasons that he has explained. Does he agree that it is not just their driving that we lose, but the extra service that they provide? The drivers who work for the Speyside community car sharing scheme in Moray do not just drop people off at the doctor’s surgery or the hospital and then pick them up again; they wait for them, and take them back to their homes to ensure that they are safe after what can sometimes be a traumatic experience.

[Jamie Stone]

That point is incredibly well made. The hypothetical Mrs Mackay who goes to Moray or Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross will know the local people. She will know, when she picks up Mrs Mackenzie, that she may have forgotten to take her heart tablets with her. That is crucial. Local knowledge will also inform her if Mrs Mackenzie has been bereaved, or if there is some difficulty in her family. That makes life so much better.

At the end of the day—and at the end of this day, too—patient transport in my vast and beautiful constituency is exceedingly challenging. I acknowledge that. However, no challenge should be ducked, and I think that sensitive law making can take on some of the nuances. I am bound to say that, in my 11 months in this place, I have been grateful to Her Majesty’s Government for their recognition that I represent a very remote and rural part of Scotland and of the United Kingdom, with a fragile economy. I look forward to the Minister’s reply, and I stake my claim for the future by saying that I should be more than happy to meet him, talk about this problem, and work towards a constructive solution as the days, months and years go by—although I hope that it will not be years.

Defence

Debate between Jamie Stone and Douglas Ross

Thursday 11th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

It is a real pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone). I hope the tone does not drop too quickly after his consensual remarks, with which I am sure we all agree. I congratulate the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) on securing this extremely important debate. I listened closely to what right hon. and hon. Members said about the number of defence debates that were previously held in this Chamber. I certainly think that we should aspire to what was done in the past, rather than just having the odd debate or two.

The motion is wide-ranging, and I will use that as an opportunity to speak about my local bases in the Moray constituency and a number of other issues connected to the military aspect of what we are discussing today. I was taken with the point made by the hon. Member for North Wiltshire (James Gray) that it was difficult to speak after the speeches of so many credible speakers—whether it be the Chair of the Defence Committee, the hon. Member for Gedling or others who have served in the armed forces. Unfortunately, I cannot speak with the intimate knowledge that comes from having served in the military. My only connection is a very important one to me—any Member of Parliament for Moray, which has both an RAF base and an Army barracks, is intrinsically involved with the armed forces, which is why it is such a great pleasure to speak in this debate today. I wish to mention both of those bases today.

First, Kinloss, which has already been mentioned in the debate, was previously home to the Nimrod fleet, but after the decision taken in the 2010 strategic defence and security review it became home to 39 Engineer Regiment, which has been extremely busy in the past year. It has been in South Sudan with the UN, in the Falkland Islands, in Romania to support NATO air policing, and in Cyprus in the anti-Daesh coalition operations. There was much fear and concern when RAF Kinloss closed as an air base—clearly the community was concerned, as were the serving personnel. There was a genuine fear at the time that nothing would be put in its place. Now, in 2018, all of us in Moray are happy and proud to be celebrating the work done by our excellent service personnel at an Army barracks, in place of the air base. It is good to see that strong military tradition at Kinloss continue—and it will continue for many years to come.

[Jamie Stone]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the local populations near these installations are very proud of them and pleased to have them there? We should always remember that.

[Douglas Ross]

That was something that came out very clearly when the RAF base closed. There were also concerns at the time that RAF Lossiemouth might close, which would have made it a double blow. I took part in a march in Lossiemouth back in 2010 to ensure that the base stayed open. Thousands of people from across Moray, who would not normally gather at a single event, all joined together to show their support for the Ministry of Defence in Moray. That was a very significant event that is still remembered very clearly a number of years later. RAF Lossiemouth is now going from strength to strength, and the numbers there are increasing significantly. It is a northern quick reaction alert facility, protecting our United Kingdom airspace from unidentified aircraft. The Typhoons have overseas deployments with Operation Shader, and are also based in Cyprus for operations over Iraq and Syria. Later this year we will see deployments in Romania and Oman.

We are waiting with bated breath for the arrival of the P-8 Poseidon aircraft. Everyone is celebrating this huge investment, which includes £400 million of investment at RAF Lossiemouth and 400 additional personnel coming to our area. I have informed the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) that I will mention him in my speech. Unfortunately, he took no interventions, despite our having a bit of flexibility. I would not be so churlish should he choose to stand up and intervene on me. He has unfortunately taken the approach that he will not celebrate or welcome this huge investment, which is welcomed by everyone in Moray. He would rather raise scare stories. When I was successful in defeating the Scottish National party incumbent in Moray, I thought that we had ended the time when SNP politicians would raise scare stories about the MOD presence in Moray.

Referendum on Scottish Independence

Debate between Jamie Stone and Douglas Ross

Monday 13th November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Douglas Ross]

It certainly does not vote SNP in the north-east, where I overturned an SNP majority of more than 9,000 to gain a Scottish Conservative majority of 4,000.

[Jamie Stone]

The hon. Gentleman will agree with me that it is no surprise that, for that matter, electors do not vote SNP in one of the remotest and largest constituencies in rural Scotland—my own.

[Douglas Ross]

Absolutely—the hon. Gentleman makes a point that I hope to expand for the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O'Hara). Policing is an example of centralisation, and so are the health services. The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) and all other non-SNP politicians are campaigning against the centralisation of health services in their remote part of Scotland. The point that I am trying to put across is that the SNP Government are obsessed with separation at the expense of the local issues that we need to focus on and concentrate on. [Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

It will come as no surprise to the hon. Members gathered here today that I have no intention of supporting the notion of a second independence referendum for Scotland. I want to share an experience I had during the referendum period. It will be no surprise to the SNP Members here that I was involved in the Better Together campaign. I was at the top of a ladder, up a lamp-post in the town of Alness in Easter Ross, putting up a “No, thank you” poster. Around me there gathered a crowd of people who were not of my persuasion. I was called a traitor and told, “Get off that ladder and go back,” and all the rest of it. At that precise moment, while I was at the top of the ladder, my mobile rang. It was my wife. That was the point when Scotland’s future hung by a thread, and my wife said, “Darling, will you be sure to remember the milk and the cat food?” That brought me back to reality.

I want to talk about what other hon. Members have already referred to: the divisions. More than anything now, we have to put everything else behind us and heal those divisions. As other hon. Members have said, it got very, very bad indeed. I do not want ever to see that again in Scotland, because it did not reflect on us as a country in any good way whatsoever.

[Douglas Ross]

Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that, while the petition against a second independence referendum speaks in its preamble only of Scotland’s suffering because of the SNP leader’s obsession with independence, the petition in favour of a second independence referendum mentions that those who support one are “not bigoted” and “not racist”, thereby implying that those who do not potentially are bigots and racists?

[Jamie Stone]

We have to move away from that language. I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s sentiments, and I also thank him for his comments about the problems we have experienced with the health service in my constituency. It is not for today, but there is a problem in that the SNP, or any governing party of whatever colour, must be seen to serve the outlying different areas of Scotland in ways that do not disadvantage them.

That is for another day. Let us think about the positive things around which I think all of us across this Chamber today can unite. Scotland, for many hundreds of years, has been an outward-looking nation. Why do we have these words in our Scottish dialect? Why do we talk about a hashet for the plate on which we carve a gigot of lamb? Why do we talk about a swarree? That is the French influence. Why do we have Dutch tiles in Fife? Why did Wick, in my constituency, export enormous amounts of herring to the Baltic? It was because Scotland was traditionally outward-looking and dealt with nations right across the world. That is something we should be proud of, and that is what we should concentrate on in the future. Whatever side we were on in Brexit, Scotland has a role in the world, and it is a positive one.

We can unite on that, but to do so we must put the divisions behind us. I am repeating myself, but they were bad, ugly, and they brought friend against friend and brother against brother. That is unfortunate, and I think we could agree on that. In closing, I must say well done to the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Martyn Day) for taking so many interventions in such a cordial and well-mannered way.