amendment of the law

Debate between Iain Duncan Smith and Mark Pritchard

Tuesday 25th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The reality is that the Opposition are not very good at learning lessons. Were they in power again, I suspect that they would crash the car into the buffers, just as they did the last time.

At the same time, the Opposition’s proposal for restricting pensions tax relief has been called “extraordinarily complex” by the IFS and “unworkable” by the CBI. Labour needs a little reminder that make-work schemes are enormously expensive and, worse still, a mean attack on these pension proposals. The saving they expect to make from pensions tax relief is another mean attack on people who do the right thing by saving for their future. Labour has learnt nothing. Its proposal is even possibly a rehash of its old StepUp programme, which ended up costing a massive £10,000 per place before it binned it, rather than introducing it.

There we have it: a policy—the only one I have heard from the Opposition—that is full of flaws, unfunded and simply would not work. It is small wonder that when asked they said, “Okay, this will be about the private sector.” Actually, the future jobs fund, on which this proposal is based, never got jobs in the private sector. In fact, Barnsley council reported that only 7% of those jobs were in the private sector, and Birmingham council reported only 2%. It is small wonder that when asked to confirm whether that would be for private sector jobs, the shadow Chancellor said:

“But if not, you can do it through the voluntary sector. If not… you have to have a final backstop: public work scheme.”

If not one, then the other, but if not that, then another one. It begins to sound a bit like Vicky Pollard: “Yeah but no but yeah but no.” They have no policy for employment at all. To this date the private sector’s response has been unequivocal:

“Wage subsidies for employers are not the source of sustainable jobs… Government must focus on creating the conditions for growth”.

It is the same old Labour; the same old failed policies.

A little over a year before the next general election, this Budget sets out the choice now facing the electorate. On one hand we have an Opposition who every day are mired in confusion, who have voted against every reform measure and who have learnt nothing. After making welfare spending balloon by 60% during their time in government, they now want to spend more.

I want to ask the hon. Member for Leeds West what she meant by something she said when addressing a meeting of Christian socialists—perhaps they were just socialists, but I am not sure. She said:

“It will be much better if we can say all the changes that the Government has introduced we can reverse and all benefits can be universal.”

There we have the beating heart of Labour, and the public should know this—[Interruption.] They are cheering, because that is exactly what they want. Only now will they vote for the welfare cap—although I understand that a number of them will not—but they have no intention of sticking to it. That is only because, as the hon. Lady went on to say, to do what she wants to do would at the moment appear unpopular. They do something because it appears popular, not because they believe in it.

[Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)]

I wonder whether my right hon. Friend can help me. Does he know whether it is now the policy of Her Majesty’s Opposition to have an individual welfare cap or a universal budget cap? It is not only hon. Members in this place who would like to know what their policy is; 27 bishops in the other place would, too.

[Mr Duncan Smith]

With respect, I have found in the past few weeks that I cannot really answer for bishops. They usually think they can answer for me, which is a fair response, but I am happy to avoid that challenge.

The Opposition have been quite confused about the welfare cap. They say that they are going to support it, but within the cap they have a policy they say they are going to change by ending the spare room subsidy. [Interruption.] Opposition Members call it a bedroom tax. I noticed that when they said last week that there were 24 tax rises under this Government, they did not schedule that as one of those tax rises. The truth is that they know it is not a tax, so, as ever, they are trying to fool the public. Let me point out that reversing that policy will cost them up to £500 million a year, and they have, they say, produced only one measure within the welfare cap that they will use to pay for that—means-testing winter fuel allowances for wealthier pensioners, but that will save only £100 million. Almost as soon as they vote for the cap tomorrow, they will be planning to break it. Perhaps the hon. Member for Leeds West can tell us—I will give way to her if so—what other elements she is going to change within the capped programme to reduce spending to bring it under the cap. Will she will intervene to tell me that? Of course not; she has no idea. There we have it—it is just a game for them. The only reason they might vote for the cap is that they are worried that it would be unpopular not to do so, but they do not intend at any stage to implement it.

On the other hand, this coalition Government are reforming welfare in the firm belief that it is the right thing to do, not only saving money but breaking dependency and restoring the incentive to work. We have record highs in employment and record lows for the rate of workless households. What is more, this Government are rewarding hard work and saving, in the belief that people have a right to take their own decisions on the money that they have earned, not dictating to them through high taxation or forcing them to buy poor yielding products as the previous Government did. This Budget delivers support for those who try, help for those who need it, and security for hard-working families up and down the land. I commend this Budget to the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Iain Duncan Smith and Mark Pritchard

Monday 28th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

We do not expect anybody to lose their homes as a result, but I must tell the hon. Gentleman that his Government sat for a large number of years without building any houses, watching housing benefit rise and people sitting on waiting lists to get houses, so crocodile tears from them now they are in opposition are a waste of time. We will sort the problem out, and I hope they will not be in government for a long time to come.

[Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)]

Most EU migration has been of real benefit to Britain, but may I ask the Secretary of State what plans he is putting in place to stop Bulgarian and Romanian migrants claiming welfare benefits from 1 January 2014, thus driving up the welfare bill for UK taxpayers?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

We inherited a situation in which there were rules guarding against that happening to those who come in. To put the record straight, habitual residence tests and other rules require that those who come into this country are involved in some form of work. My hon. Friend also knows that European legislation is before us at the moment that tries to allow those coming in to claim benefits on day one. We are utterly opposed to that: we are fighting it, and it is not my intention to see it happen in any way.