Legal Aid Reform

Lord Bellingham Excerpts

Thursday 27th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

It is absolutely the case that in our system the choice of lawyer is fundamental and essential. In fact every democratic country we can think of enables that choice. That this Government should seek now to say that someone facing criminal charges cannot choose, and therefore have confidence in, the person to be charged with preserving their liberty is a huge exception to the democratic system we have sought to preserve for so long. Of course it will lead to huge miscarriages of justice.

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way and I hope he gets extra time for taking a second intervention. I hear what he has to say, but does he agree that whoever was in power at the moment, having to make difficult choices, would almost certainly have to look at what is one of the most generous legal aid systems in the world and make savings to that budget? Does he agree that the problem is not so much the principle of the savings but how this is being done and the fact that there needs to be consultation on a number of specific points that, to be fair, the Government have agreed to reconsider?

[Mr Lammy]

The hon. Gentleman is right. It is totally unacceptable that the Government have sought to rush this measure through after a speedy consultation that lasted less than two months. It is wrong that there should not be a vote in the House and it is wrong to caricature previous changes to legal aid as having any relationship with these changes. When I was legal aid Minister, changes were made to scope in personal injury in an attempt to take out those who were caught up in speeding or traffic cases in the legal aid system. We introduced fixed fees to maintain costs. We introduced online and phone systems for free legal advice to limit costs. Those were the sorts of changes we introduced; we did not attempt to charge and make an attack on judicial review.

Judicial review is so important. Most people in this country feel that public authorities are benign until they have a disabled child, or one with special needs, and seek to challenge the local authority or the school, until they have an elderly relative in a care home and abuse goes on in that care home, or until they live in the path of High Speed 2 or Crossrail. There are people in this country who would seek to use judicial review and it is a travesty that this Government would run a coach and horses through it for £6 million.

The hon. Member for North West Norfolk (Mr Bellingham) mentioned savings and savings can be made in other ways. Tagging a defendant costs £13.41 in Britain, but £1.22 in America. Let us find the savings through cheaper procurement. Let us find the savings in the court system. Let us not rip up a democratic, constitutional system that we have had for so many years and that has served us well.

We have heard that the parents of Jean Charles de Menezes would not have received legal aid under the changes being made to the residence system. In fact, after these changes, babies in our care system aged under one would not get legal aid, even though children sometimes need access to it. There are many headlines at the moment about Jimmy Mubenga, a young man who lost his life in a deportation case. His family would not get legal aid. Is that really the kind of country we want to live in? Is that what we want to arm our Foreign Secretaries with when they are trying to speak powerfully to foreign Governments who seek to oppress their citizens? It cannot be, so I ask the Department to think again about the decision and to think very hard about the changes it is attempting to railroad through Parliament.

Those are the reasons it is important that we have the opportunity to vote. It is deeply concerning that it has taken senior Back Benchers going to the Backbench Business Committee to bring this discussion to the House in the first place. I cannot think of an occasion in the past few years when that has happened on such a major issue. I ask the Secretary of State to be mindful of the petition signed by thousands of people because they, too, are concerned about the situation.

The caricature that implies that those who are caught up in the criminal system are thick and therefore do not need a choice of lawyer is a disgrace coming from a Secretary of State for Justice. For legal aid lawyers to be caricatured as fat cats when their average salary is less than that of nurses and teachers in this country and when we are talking about high street firms in Bristol, Swindon and Brixton—places as different as that—is unacceptable. This is not about the producer, but about the citizen and the consumer. It is about hard-fought battles that have taken place in this Chamber over many years. I ask the Government and hon. Members to join me in the No Lobby after the debate.

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[Mr Djanogly]

The previous Government were considering contracting, as were Labour Front Benchers during this Parliament. We need to appreciate that the Legal Services Act 2007, brought in by the previous Government with Conservative support, has transformed the potential for legal service provision. To cut a long story short, there is now no reason why solicitors and barristers should not go into partnership together, or indeed, with non-legal organisations, via alternative business structures. There is no reason why barristers should not take instructions direct from the client nor any reason why barristers should not themselves bid for contracts and employ solicitors. In practice, there have been blockers to this kind of progress, not least a barrister regulator that seems unable to see the writing on the wall for its own profession.

If I seem radical, I am explaining a scenario that would seem more or less natural to most Commonwealth common law countries.

[Mr Bellingham]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sorry, but the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) is on the move again. Surely right hon. and hon. Members should always stay in their seat and listen to the speech immediately after their contribution.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

The courtesies of the House are that a speaker should remain for the next two speakers, having contributed to the debate. It is regrettable. I did not see him move again, but I am sure that someone from the Opposition Benches will ensure that he returns quickly to hear the debate. Sorry for the interruption, Mr Djanogly.

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[Ian Swales]

I am proud of that, and I am surprised by some of the comments from Front Benchers that seem to contradict what the right hon. Gentleman just said.

We also have a system in which tariffs vary widely across the country, sometimes paying twice as much for the same activity. Why does the Ministry of Justice not look into that? We often criticise the Ministry for not piloting its ideas, but they have tested this one by setting up five public defender services. They are proving to be three to four times as expensive as present local arrangements, and the one near me in Middlesbrough has already closed down. What has the Ministry learned and why is it planning to protect those offices from competitive tendering?

[Mr Bellingham]

The Crown Prosecution Service now has a lot of in-house lawyers, who are expensive and who have pensions, significant overheads and so on. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that going back to instructing the independent Bar, as used to happen, would result in savings and that the MOJ should look at that quite urgently?

[Ian Swales]

The hon. Gentleman has made his point fluently. I am not a lawyer and am unable to comment on those details, but I am sure that Ministers heard his point.

Looking at the effect on justice first, the evidence from the USA, where the MOJ’s planned approach is already in place, will give the public little comfort. Even people who are charged with the most serious crimes, including murder, are given low-cost lawyers and scant attention. Among the most serious duties a Government can have are to prevent people from dying in hospital and to prevent them from being wrongfully imprisoned. Why do we believe so strongly in choice in the first case while seeking to eliminate it in the second? Only through choice can standards be maintained and competitive pressures take effect. Yesterday, the Chancellor said:

“Our philosophy is simple: trust people to make their own decisions and they will usually make better decisions.”—[Official Report, 26 June 2013; Vol. 565, c. 306.]

I urge the Minister to follow that approach.

I also urge the Minister to look carefully at the financial incentives in the proposed contracts. As we on the Public Accounts Committee know, there is touching faith in most Departments that their private sector partners will “do the right thing”. They will—but it will be the right thing to maximise their profits. It beggars belief that firms might get the same fee for a quick guilty plea as they get for a trial lasting days or even weeks. I know that the Secretary of State is a great believer in payment by results, but is he really looking for justice through short trials with few witnesses, or for innocent, vulnerable people to be locked up through a quick guilty plea? That is what his system will encourage.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Bellingham Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

It is not the policy of the coalition Government to withdraw from the European convention on human rights. My party is looking at what proposals we want to put to the country at the next general election. The vast majority of the population want changes to our human rights framework. If the Labour party disagrees, I look forward to having that debate.

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

Further to the Secretary of State’s statement about prisons at the start of topical questions, does he agree that far too many drugs are still circulating in prisons? How far is he getting with his zero-tolerance policy, which is aimed at staff and visitors because the drugs are not coming into prisons with the prisoners?

[Jeremy Wright]

My hon. Friend is right that too many drugs are still coming into prisons, but he will be reassured to know that the rate of positive drug tests is coming down. As he will know, we must also tackle the misuse of prescription medication in jails. We are addressing all those problems to the best of our ability and will continue to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Bellingham Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

My hon. Friend will have heard the victims Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), set out the much good work she is promoting in terms of victims’ centres, and in particular rape victim centres. I assure my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) that Ministers are taking that issue very seriously in all parts of the country, and particularly in north Yorkshire.

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

16. What plans he has to ensure that high net worth defendants do not receive legal aid.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)]

The Ministry of Justice is considering ways in which high net worth defendants can be obliged to pay the costs of their defence privately, without receiving legal aid first. We have also announced measures to strengthen Crown court means-testing to help ensure that defendants who can pay towards their legal aid costs at the Crown court are made to do so. Last night, of course, there were additional provisions to the Crime and Courts Bill, which received its Third Reading in this House.

[Mr Bellingham]

I am grateful to the Lord Chancellor for that encouraging reply, and I thank him for the work he is doing in this area, but does he agree that for far too long these rich defendants have had their cases financed through legal aid by the taxpayer, which is completely unacceptable at a time when he has had to make changes to the legal aid budget? Does he agree that more can still be done to access wealth from frozen accounts?

[Chris Grayling]

I very much agree with that, and, of course, the measures in the Crime and Courts Bill open the door to our doing that for the first time. I wish to see us recover funds from those who can afford to pay for their own defence.

Transforming Rehabilitation

Lord Bellingham Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I can absolutely do that. I envisage no change, unless it is an improvement, to how we manage offenders such as former terrorists in the community. They would fall under the high-risk umbrella and I would expect that work to continue in the public sector, where it takes place at the moment. I pay tribute to Greater Manchester probation trust, which is among the most innovative and entrepreneurial of the probation trusts. I have little doubt that some of the people in that trust will see the opportunity to create a mutual or co-operative. In the spirit of the Labour party and the co-operative movement, this is a great opportunity for a new generation of co-operatives to emerge and I want to see staff participating in the future.

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that it is difficult and challenging to rehabilitate hardened drug addicts? Does he share my concern that many young people are going into prison as mild drug users but coming out as addicts? Why are there still so many drugs available in our prisons and what is he doing about it?

[Chris Grayling]

That is a concern that I and the prisons Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Jeremy Wright), share. We have done quite a bit of work on it already, but we are up against a determined effort to get drugs into prison; some of the means used to smuggle drugs into prison are quite eye-catching. We will do everything we can to reduce the availability of drugs in prisons, but when someone comes out, if they have had some form of rehabilitation in prison I want to see that continue in the community. The structure of these reforms and the through-the-gate approach will make it much more likely that we have consistent rehabilitation through prison and beyond.

Voting Eligibility (Prisoners)

Lord Bellingham Excerpts

Thursday 22nd November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The legal position remains that Parliament has the right to say no to any decision of the European Court of Human Rights, whatever that might be. It is clear that that is its absolute right but, as Lord Justice Hoffmann said, there is a political consequence of doing so. I do not make light of the challenge or debate that would follow if the decision were not to give prisoners the vote.

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

The Secretary of State has just mentioned that a number of leading EU countries have ignored judgments of the ECHR on the grounds of parliamentary sovereignty. It was stated at the time that their international reputation in various forums, such as the UN Human Rights Council, would suffer. Is there any evidence of that happening and has any analysis being carried out?

Policing

Lord Bellingham Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hanson]

Indeed, only one Liberal Democrat is present: the hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle). [Interruption.] Yes, one other Liberal Democrat is, in fact, present: the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart).

I make these points because I am worried about the turnout in these elections. I worry for the Minister in having this flagship policy of elections for PCCs on which the Government have done an abysmal job in generating interest and turnout and getting people engaged.

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

On the question of turnout, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the comments of Lord Blair of Boughton were deeply unhelpful and extremely negative, and that someone with his experience should have known better?

[Mr Hanson]

I say to the hon. Gentleman that I will be voting on 15 November, and I urge everybody else to vote, too, to ensure that these elections have as high a turnout as possible.

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[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe). It was good to hear him end on a positive note as well.

If the official Opposition had had their way, this would have been a debate about my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell). Events have moved on, of course, but I would like to pay tribute to him for the work he did as Secretary of State for International Development. He was a truly outstanding and inspirational DFID Secretary. He spent five years in opposition preparing for that brief, and when he got the brief in government, he was a huge, huge success and admired throughout the world.

I want to focus briefly on Norfolk constabulary, and pay tribute to the police officers across the county. Although they are facing difficult times, they have turned themselves into an incredibly effective small police force, which is now probably better placed than most other forces in the country.

There has been a reduction in the number of officers. On 1 April 2010 there were 1,650 police officers and 275 police community support officers. On 1 April 2012, however, there were 1,530 police officers and 15 fewer PCSOs, and by 1 April 2015 the number of police officers will fall to 1,500. Although that obviously presents challenges, I want to underline the fact that there has been a quite superb improvement in the force’s performance.

Crime has fallen. In the last year—2010-11 to 2011-12 —burglary crime was down 20%, robbery was down 11.4% and vehicle theft crime was down 26%. Had serious sexual offences not gone up by 20%, overall crime would have come down by much more than 2.4%. In the year to date, 2011-12 to 2012-13, serious sexual offences have fallen 24%, theft of motor vehicles is down by a staggering 29%, robbery is down 31% and priority criminal damage is down 37%. We are therefore on target to reduce crime by almost 13%. That is an extraordinary performance.

The point that those things underscore is that it is possible to reduce the number of police officers in a time of great austerity, but they do not have to be taken out of the front line. It is not necessary to undermine in any way the integrity of the front line. Norfolk constabulary has reduced bureaucracy and the number of officers in back-up or admin jobs. It has got more officers on to the front line and it is reducing crime. I want to pay tribute to all the police officers who have contributed to this excellent record, and in particular Chief Constable Phil Gormley. He is leading a force that now has high morale, in spite of the changes that are taking place.

Another important part of our strategy is collaboration with Suffolk constabulary. The shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), talked about the reforms during Charles Clarke’s tenure at the Home Office. They did not succeed because they were too large a step forward at that time. In Norfolk, there has been a steady, pragmatic, common-sense approach to collaboration. At regional level, there has been sensible collaboration through the eastern region special operations unit. A joint structure has been put in place with Suffolk for collaborative policing, covering protective services, justice services and business support. The total cost is now £44.5 million. To put that in context, the total amount spent by Norfolk constabulary is £120 million and Suffolk spent £92 million. Some 502 officers are now working on this collaborative project, and there are 48 civilian staff.

In protective services, there are now six major units covering serious and organised crime, forensic investigation and intelligence, as well as the major investigation team, specialist operations and the vulnerable people directorate. In justice services, Norfolk and Suffolk now have a fully collaborative unit comprising criminal justice services, custody services and a new custody investigation unit. There is also a joint Norfolk and Suffolk criminal justice board. In business support, £9.8 million has been saved across the forces. There are now joint departments covering estates, ICT, procurement and human resources.

Are the public pleased with the performance of Norfolk constabulary? Norfolk constabulary has the 17th lowest budget in the country, yet it has the fifth highest detection rate, the second highest overall value-for-money rating and is third in the country in terms of public satisfaction.

I support the changes and the election of police and crime commissioners. I wish the new PCC all the best. He or she will take over a force that is in excellent heart.