Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill (Instructions)

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Monday 29th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I agree with the hon. Member for North Down (Stephen Farry) and thank the Minister for reaching this point. There has been considerable effort and collaboration across the House and across parties. The hon. Gentleman mentioned most particularly the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister, the Justice Minister for Northern Ireland and, indeed, all Northern Ireland MPs, who are all agreeable to the aspiration of the instruction to the Committee. It is right that Northern Ireland be included in a UK-wide system, and the outcome should benefit our constituents who have been most deeply affected by the Horizon scandal.

Question put and agreed to.

Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

Committee of the whole House
Monday 29th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Dame Rosie. Given the nature of this debate, in moving the Government amendments, I will also use my speech to discuss the other amendments that have been tabled.

First, I will address the Government amendments in the name of the Secretary of State relating to Northern Ireland: 23 and 24, 26 to 44, and 46 to 56, as well as new clauses 1 to 3. I am grateful to the House for agreeing to the Government’s instruction motion to enable debate on these important amendments. The Government have listened carefully to representations across the House regarding the extension of the Bill to Northern Ireland. We recognise the unique challenges faced by the Northern Ireland Executive in bringing forward legislation to quash convictions to a similar timeframe as the rest of the UK.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I just want to put on record, in Committee, the Democratic Unionist party’s sincere and personal appreciation of the Minister for how he has engaged with us, the pragmatic way he has approached these issues, and the can-do attitude he has extended to Northern Ireland. We have met on a number of occasions. He has received the thorough representations of my right hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) and colleagues across the House, not least Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive. We are indebted to him. We recognise that this is a huge step forward for the sub-postmasters in Northern Ireland who felt there would not be light at the end of the tunnel. He has extended the Bill very purposefully for all those affected in Northern Ireland, and we thank him for it.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his kind words. It is a pleasure to work with him and his colleagues from Northern Ireland. We were always sympathetic to his arguments and are delighted to have been able to move forward as we have.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gavin Robinson]

Like others who have spoken, I indicate the Democratic Unionist party’s full support for the Bill at Third Reading. The Secretary of State was kind enough to thank the Minister. As she was not present to hear all our tributes to him throughout the course of the evening, I want to repeat them for her benefit.

The Minister has thoughtfully and doggedly worked through the issues on the inclusion of Northern Ireland. We are incredibly grateful to him. He used to sidle up to me weekly and suggest something else that I needed to do to allow him to advance the case for inclusion, and every time I satisfied what he had asked of me, he presented another challenge, and then another. He requested that I speak with people who are really uncontactable for politicians because they are too impartial for such work. But my colleagues and I genuinely appreciate the way in which he has engaged with us.

Tribute was paid to the Northern Ireland Executive and the way in which they have engaged in this issue, but as the party leader it would be remiss of me not to put on record my appreciation for the work of my right hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), who took an interest in the issue long before the restoration of the Northern Ireland Executive. He has recognised the deep injustice that has been at the heart of the Horizon scandal and doggedly pursued resolution and justice for those affected in Northern Ireland.

Our friend, the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), has always been a champion for Northern Ireland’s inclusion in the legislation. We are grateful not just for his interest in us, but for his commitment to the issue over many years and the thoughtful way in which he has engaged in it.

It serves to prove the impact that Back Benchers can have in the parliamentary process that there is no frailty to the pursuit that we have. Though we may not have sufficiency of numbers to provide the opposition in and of ourselves, we have been able through effective relationships to ensure positive progress in the Bill. However, that can work only if there is reciprocation. For that, throughout the course of the last weeks and months, and longer relationships on other issues, we are grateful.

Shared Parental Leave and Pay (Bereavement) Bill

Gavin Robinson Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 26th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and to support the hon. Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore). The only thing I wrestled with before making this contribution was making sure that I said “the hon. Member for Ogmore”, not “the hon. Member for Elmore”. I have achieved my purpose, and I am pleased to support him.

The hon. Gentleman rightly encapsulated the benefit of these Friday debates and the process for considering private Members’ Bills, with which I have not had an awful lot of engagement during my time in Parliament. I will come on to that. This morning, we can consider Bills of constitutional import and of infrastructural import for Stoke-on-Trent South, as well as a Bill on the theological pursuit of freedom of belief and justice, which was introduced by the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), and a Bill with practical and meaningful import introduced by the hon. Member for Ogmore, who is right to suggest that it will not affect the masses. However, masses of people in our country should be greatly appreciative of the fact that he has taken a step this morning so that, should sorrow or tragedy strike their family, this issue has been considered. He is laying the foundation stone to ensure that support will be there in such difficult circumstances.

We should not have to stand here and reflect on the regressive facts that he has shared with us. The statistics over the past 20 years have got worse for mothers in childbirth who have needed the state to respond appropriately, so I am glad that he is taking action and has introduced the Bill. As a Northern Ireland Member, however, I reflect on the extent of the Bill. As it stands, it appropriately enables Ministers to make regulations that will amend Acts that apply to England, Scotland and Wales. I say, gently at this stage, that I can imagine that that is because our rights in Northern Ireland, which mirror entirely the employment rights of an Act of Parliament applying to England, Scotland and Wales, were proceeded with through an Order in Council. It might be worth considering—if, indeed, it is procedurally possible—whether the Bill, if it completes Second Reading, could be amended to include Orders in Council. The Order in Council in Northern Ireland and the relevant Act in England, Scotland and Wales are exactly the same. With appropriate processes for legislative consent, there would be no barrier, in my mind, to anyone from Northern Ireland seeking to introduce the provisions in the Bill. There would be no political reason or rationale for not doing so. I make that point gently and constructively. I hope that when the Bill receives further consideration, a very slight augmentation may provide for inclusion across this United Kingdom of such an important measure.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I thank my hon. Friend for those points. As the hon. Member for Ogmore stated, bereavement affects all of us. Society is probably more open than it was when I was a young child, and I think we are now better at dealing with these matters and getting them out in the open. There are good ways to deal with bereavement—better ways to deal with it than we experienced in the past—and some of the counselling offered by experts must be a good thing. We certainly had a lot of engagement on that during our consideration of the Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Act 2018, which I dealt with. That obviously covers the loss of a child, and in this context there is nothing more devastating than the death of a child.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe again on getting to where he has got with this legislation. I know he would have loved to have taken it through the House himself, but these things are a team effort. He understandably asked for an explanation as to why the entitlement will not include pay. In response, I flag that no statutory parental leave entitlement, including maternity leave, has pay available from an employee’s first day in a new job. That is because, apart from small businesses, employers are required to contribute towards the cost of statutory parental pay, as well as meeting the costs and burdens associated with their employee’s absence from work and the administration around that. I think he would accept that this legislation is a floor, not a ceiling, and that good employers will go further and in some cases much further than the legislation.

I thank the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) for his comments. I am pleased he supports this legislation. Understandably, he talks about Northern Ireland, and my officials in the Box today have rightly had conversations with their counterparts in Northern Ireland, and we are keen to continue those discussions. Clearly employment law is a devolved matter for Northern Ireland.

[Gavin Robinson]

indicated dissent.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Employment law is a devolved matter for Northern Ireland, I understand, but we will continue those conversations. I note his point about an Order in Council, and we will take forward discussion on that.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Jack Brereton) spoke passionately about this issue, and he reflected on what it would mean for him as a husband and father. He rightly talked about how this is a great injustice and how we need to address it, and I am pleased to tell him that that is exactly what we are doing.

To conclude, the Government support the Bill’s intent as an important extension of support and protection for those parents who have to face one of the most challenging and tragic situations. The Government take pride in endorsing this private Member’s Bill, allying our efforts with an unwavering commitment to bolstering workers’ support and cultivating a high-skilled, high-productivity and high-wage economy. It is always good to see support from across the political spectrum, and no less than that has been on show today in this House. This is a hugely important measure, as has been clearly set out in today’s discussion. Again, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe for his unwavering support and advocacy for parents who find themselves in this tragic position. He has been pivotal in bringing this issue to the forefront of our minds and this legislation forward. It is a pleasure to work again with the hon. Member for Ogmore, and I look forward to working with him to support the passage of the Bill.