Automated Vehicles Bill [Lords]

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Report stage
Wednesday 1st May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

I rise in support of new clauses 1 and 3, which are based on measures that we tabled in Committee. I will also speak to amendments 6 and 7 that stand in my name and those of colleagues in Plaid Cymru, but I will not detain the House too long as it is clear that there is broad agreement on the wider principles of the Bill and the implications of the details in it, notwithstanding the amendments. As a member of the Transport Committee, it has been clear to me for some time that this framework legislation is required. By and large the Government have done a good job, with the sector largely content and no real opposition in this place to the vast majority of the Bill—[Interruption.] Okay, I will change that to “a decent job”; the Minister was too grateful.

That said, I must return to the issues around clause 50, which gives the Secretary of State power to legislate on devolved matters. That may not be the Bill’s intention, but the possibility remains a concern. I am grateful to the Minister for meeting me to discuss the problems with clause 50. In the end, the meeting came after Committee stage had concluded. That was disappointing, but it was a reflection of the wild agreement and consent on all sides for the vast majority of the Bill, resulting in an extremely swift conclusion to the Committee. The Scottish Government and their Ministers and officials have been engaged with the UK Government and their Ministers and officials on at least two occasions to discuss the implications for devolution of clause 50, and the proper remit of both Governments. In Committee, the Minister was forthcoming about discussing matters further with the Scottish Government, and I thank him for that. I believe those discussions have taken place.

It would be helpful if the Minister gave a commitment on the record on the Floor of the House that the Scottish and Welsh Governments will be consulted fully before the relevant powers in clause 50 are used by the Secretary of State. That being the case, would it not make more sense for the Government to accept amendment 7, because that is all it seeks? The fact remains that it would be infinitely preferable to have a statutory basis for the changes that the UK Government propose to make, and one that respects and acknowledges the legal framework that exists under devolution.

In Committee, the Minister maintained the line that the legal advice he and his Government have received indicates that these matters are all reserved, but the Scottish Government are clear that their similar advice indicates that the matters are devolved. My amendment would simply reflect the legal position as understood by the Scottish Government and outlined by the Cabinet Secretary for Transport at the Scottish Parliament’s Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee last month. She said that

“things that relate to offences under devolved legislation and offences that would be part of devolved areas, these are the areas that the provision would allow the UK Government to legislate on or make provision for in the future...we think it’s a genuine issue of concern.”

In the same session, George Henry, national operations manager for road safety policy and education for Transport Scotland, said:

“I will just try to provide an explanation or an example. There will be devolved legislation that has been brought in either by roads authorities or even through the Scottish Parliament that clause 50 allows the Secretary of State to change. That is the reason why we are not supportive of that. This Parliament—”

that is the Scottish Parliament—

“could make a decision to implement a measure for good reasons—such as a low-emission zone in an area—that could potentially be changed through clause 50.”

Whether or not that is the intention, it gives the Secretary of State the power to do that.

I hope it is clear to the UK Government that this is not an issue of confected conflict—something we are often falsely accused of—and there is clearly a desire to make the Bill work. Equally, however, we need it to work for everyone, including the devolved Administrations. As I highlighted in Committee, if the Government’s objective is to ensure complete alignment between Scottish and English traffic laws, that ship sailed a long time ago. We have a different speed limit regime, different drink-driving laws, and a different approach to road traffic regulation in general. Wales, too, has indicated different priorities to England by, at least initially, rolling out a national 20 mph speed limit. Clearly there should be consistency across the island, where appropriate, about the basic framework under which automated vehicles will operate, and the devolved Administrations have worked with their UK counterparts to make that happen. However, that cannot be allowed to undermine the devolved position with regard to enforcement of the law where the Bill will affect devolved law.

The Minister has been forthcoming with me, including in Committee, about his commitment to constructive discussion with the devolved Administrations, and I welcome that again. However, with the greatest of respect for him, in around six months we are expecting a change of Government and he will likely no longer be there, and whatever pledges or commitments have been made cannot bind his successors. We need a commitment in legislation that it would take an Act in this place to amend or scrap.

Amendment 6 would ensure that where devolved competences, such as those referred to in clause 50, are at stake, the devolved Parliaments are guaranteed their role as the providers or otherwise of legislative consent for this Parliament to legislate on their behalf, as has been the accepted norm for devolved matters under the Sewel convention for nearly 25 years.

Amendment 7 would in essence codify the pledges made by the Minister in Committee about consulting the Scottish Government. That is good, and I wait to hear his response to the debate. However, I believe a better solution with respect to devolution is amendment 6, which would require a legislative consent motion to be passed by the Scottish Parliament, and indeed the Welsh Senedd, before a UK Minister could act, rather than just a consultation.

I do not think that is particularly controversial. If there are such disparate views from legal advisers about where the line of devolved powers lies, surely the UK Government, as a self-proclaimed champion of devolution, would be happy to codify exactly where that line lies, and guarantee the Scottish Government and Parliament, of whatever political hue, the right to determine their own laws and regulations around automated vehicles now and in the future. I will wait to see what representations the Minister makes in his remarks before deciding whether to push amendment 6 or 7 to the vote.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister.

Point of Order

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Monday 15th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I seek your advice on a matter relating to a constituent who, while on a short break in Spain, was savagely beaten by a new partner—now an ex-partner—resulting in significant bruising all over her body, several teeth knocked out and a broken jaw. Indeed, it is possible that she is only here thanks to the intervention of five Newcastle men who incapacitated the perpetrator. My constituent has received excellent consular service, which is more than can be said of the service of the Spanish police, who I am told have closed the case without taking statements from any of the six witnesses to the attack, allowing the thug to plead not guilty. It is now a case of “He said, she said,” which, as we all know, makes it very difficult to secure a conviction. That means he may well be back in Scotland, free to harass and terrorise my constituent. This situation is unacceptable, so how best should I proceed as an MP to raise urgent casework of this sort with overseas Governments?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I am afraid that there is not much that I can say, as this is not a matter for the Chair, but may I express my own sadness at what has happened? What a dreadful thing for his constituent to have to suffer. I can understand his concern on her behalf about how the matter is being dealt with. I can only advise him to write to the relevant Foreign Office Minister, who will undoubtedly take up the case. He says that the consular authorities provided a good service, which is good news. That is really the only route that I can suggest that he goes down, but he might also wish to consult the Table Office. Certainly, he has brought the matter to the attention of the House, and the whole House will be sorry to hear what has happened.

The Growth Plan

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Friday 23rd September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

With your forbearance, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to pass on to the House the sad news of the passing of my predecessor, Jim Sheridan. He diligently served the constituents of West Renfrewshire, and then Paisley and Renfrewshire North, for 40 years. I am sure that all our wishes and thoughts are with his wife Jean and his family and friends.

Jim and I did not agree on everything, I think it is fair to say, but I am certain that we would have agreed wholeheartedly on the Chancellor’s shameful and regressive statement. Workers’ rights were important to Jim, as they are to me, so the thought of attacking those rights is to the Chancellor’s shame. He spoke of the riddle of growth, so I wonder if he could riddle me this: how is it that giving bankers yet more millions drives economic growth, but giving those on benefits a fair deal, or those on low wages a cost of living pay increase, drives inflation?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Before I call the Chancellor of the Exchequer to answer the question, may I pass on to the family of Jim Sheridan, who was a much respected Member of Parliament for a very important constituency, the condolences of the whole House?

Air Traffic Management and Unmanned Aircraft Bill [Lords]

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Report stage & 3rd reading
Monday 22nd March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands [V]]

I will be mercifully brief as well. I echo the sentiments of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane). I am proud to represent Glasgow airport and to be the Scottish National party transport spokesperson. We have been speaking a lot about aviation over this past year. The UK has the third largest aviation sector in the world, but it is very unlikely to come out of this pandemic with the third largest aviation sector in the world unless the Government make good on their year-long pledge of proper sectoral support. I will be keeping up the pressure on the Minister on that basis.

However, in the meantime and with regard to this Bill, I thank the Minister, the Bill team and the Clerks. In particular, I thank Sarah and her colleagues in the Public Bill Office for their help and patience on issues such as last-minute amendments submitted at the 11th hour on Thursdays. With that, I will say that we support this Bill, and I am glad to see some progress on airspace modernisation: it is about time. I agree that we need to look at the issue of drones in a bit more detail, as the shadow Minister has already outlined.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Third time and passed.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I will now suspend the House in order that arrangements can be made for the next item of business.

Exiting the European Union (Civil Aviation)

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Wednesday 10th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

I apologise for my late entrance, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was sauntering over unaware that the last SI had been moved formally. The sauntering turned into a sprint when I saw the monitor.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. For the avoidance of doubt, I must say that in current circumstances it is not necessary for everyone who is taking part in a debate to be here at the beginning—just in case the House happens to be full and we want to keep the numbers down. Most unusually, therefore, the hon. Gentleman has done nothing wrong.

[Gavin Newlands]

I will take that in the spirit in which it was intended, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The SI comes at a difficult time for the aviation sector, as has been highlighted, and one that undoubtedly will see a significantly impacted and reduced sector by the time these regulations come into force. Notwithstanding the fact that Scotland is being dragged out of the EU and the transition period against our collective will, and that the regulations are therefore a matter of regret to us, it is not in our or anyone’s interest to interrupt regulations that ensure minimum insurance requirements for air carriers and aircraft operators in respect of passengers’ baggage, cargo and third parties.

With that said, in looking at the issue of insurance in aviation, perhaps we should be debating whether airlines have or can access appropriate business interruption insurance to cover situations such as the one that we face right now. If they had that insurance, we might not now be in a situation in which so many of our constituents waited inordinate lengths of time to secure a refund—indeed, many are still fighting to get one. That is why we on the SNP Benches have called on the Government to implement a travel guarantee fund, which may well still be necessary.

In my dealings with operators, they have said that the rights in respect of cancellation refunds in essence go only one way. In other words, if the holiday provider cancels a holiday, be it because of travel advice or any other reason, the consumer is entitled to a full refund, but if the passenger cancels a holiday because of Foreign and Commonwealth Office travel advice on the date of travel or the Government’s quarantine policy, only a portion of the refund, according to the terms and conditions of the bookings, is payable. Although it strays outside the scope of the regulations, does the Minister think that is fair?

The sector may not be as scaled down as we fear if the Government show the same level of support for this strategic sector as that shown by many other Governments around the world, including Scotland’s. I do not want to stray any further from the tight confines of the regulations, but other issues—including the situation facing workers at Rolls-Royce and British Airways, and right across the sector—may well be raised in much detail in my Adjournment debate, which will follow proceedings and which I am shamelessly plugging right now.

To conclude, I reiterate that despite the fact that we do not accept the basis by which the UK Government give effect to legislation that takes Scotland out of the EU, nor the transfer of discretionary powers from the Commission—an organisation accountable to the European Parliament and member states—to Ministers as individuals, we recognise the need to ensure that EU regulations are maintained on exit day, regardless of the constitutional situation. That is in the interests of consumers, passengers and businesses, and as such, we will not vote against the motion.

A Green Industrial Revolution

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Wednesday 15th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands]

What the shadow Secretary of State said—Hansard can ask him later what he said. If the Government want to be serious about the revolution, that short-termism has to stop. Spending seven times more per person on transport investment in London than in north-east England is not the answer to anything. Learn the lessons from Scotland, make decarbonisation a priority, and the economic rewards of the transition can be spread across the UK.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

It is a great pleasure to call, to make her maiden speech, Olivia Blake.

Petitions

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Tuesday 12th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving me advance notice of his point of order. I have come to expect some strange remarks from him, but even I was surprised at what I heard in the Chamber earlier on. I did see my colleagues who were also irked and many of them confirmed that they also had heard “Scotland”, but I hear what he says. I do wish that he would be as rigorous in representing his Ochil and South Perthshire constituents’ remain vote as he is in defending his running down of Scotland in this Chamber. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

The hon. Gentlemen concerned will appreciate that this is not a matter for the Chair, except in so far as the veracity and truthfulness of anything that is said and reported in this Chamber is a matter of concern for everyone in the Chamber and for the Chair. If there has been a misunderstanding about what one hon. Member has been reported as saying, which has been repeated—but, I take it, without malice—by another hon. Member, I am pleased that there has been an opportunity through points of order to clear up the misunderstanding. I am quite certain that nobody who is reasonably well educated in any way whatsoever would refer to Scotland as “a principality”.

Defence

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Thursday 11th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish to correct the record, as it appears I may have inadvertently misled the House this morning. During business questions, I spoke of the Scottish Government sending two letters to the outgoing Culture Secretary without reply. Hansard did not record the words “without reply”, but the Minister responded to that specific point in his response. It has since come to my attention that the Scottish Government have recently received a response from the Secretary of State, and I did not want the day to end without correcting the record. I thank you for the opportunity to do so.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The record requires to be corrected and he has adequately done so.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Gavin Newlands

Committee: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Monday 4th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

Order!

[The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I am always grateful for the help of the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands). Thank you very much. Mr Masterton must have a chance to answer the point made by Ms Cherry before we have any further interventions, although there will probably be another one in a moment.