List of Ministers’ Interests and Ministerial Code

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 24th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Alex Burghart]

I thank the Father of the House for his long view on these things, and I am sure that Sir Laurie will have heard his remarks.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)]

I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and Mr Speaker for granting this urgent question. Last week, the Prime Minister saw a third senior Minister resign in disgrace, jumping because he was not pushed. Can the Minister confirm that the former Deputy Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Dominic Raab), did break the ministerial code? Did the Government know of or approve his statements blaming the victims, which appeared before the official findings of the report? Can the Minister say whether he agrees with the brave victims who came forward for that report, or with the former Deputy Prime Minister himself, that unacceptable bullying and misconduct took place? Does he think that the former Deputy Prime Minister should apologise to victims?

We also saw the list of ministerial interests miraculously appear just minutes before Prime Minister’s questions. Can the Minister say whether the Prime Minister declared his financial interest in Koru Kids as a Minister and as Chancellor before he became Prime Minister? Will the Minister meet his own commitment to more regular updates of the ministerial interests list and put it on the same basis as the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, which is published fortnightly while the House is sitting? The Ministers’ list seems to be annual. Will the Prime Minister finally introduce an independent adviser with the power to launch their own investigations? Have all the recommendations of the Boardman review been implemented? How many of the recommendations from the Committee on Standards in Public Life report have been implemented? A recent audit by Spotlight on Corruption revealed that, 18 months after both reviews were published, just 7% of the recommendations have been implemented.

While the Government have been preoccupied with yet more Tory psychodrama, working people are still battling the worst cost of living crisis for a generation. Labour is focused on cutting the cost of living, cutting crime and cutting waiting lists with our long-term plan to give Britain its future back. Has not this past week proved beyond doubt that it is time for a Government laser-focused on delivering for Britain, instead of one mired in misconduct?

[Alex Burghart]

I will take the hon. Lady’s questions in reverse. This Government are absolutely committed to tackling the cost of living crisis. It is because of that that the Prime Minister’s No. 1 preoccupation is ensuring that inflation comes down. Without inflation coming down, we cannot have growth, and without growth we cannot have more money for our public services. The Labour party would do very well to support us in that endeavour, otherwise we will fall into exactly the same trap that it fell into in the 1970s, where unions chase pay, pay chases inflation and the economy cannot grow for 10 years.

On the point that the hon. Lady made about the Prime Minister’s declarations, I draw her attention to the remarks made by the previous independent adviser Lord Geidt, who said that the Prime Minister had been “assiduous” in declaring all his relevant ministerial interests in all his roles. The Prime Minister personally asked Lord Geidt to look into that, and Lord Geidt was satisfied, as, it must be said, is Laurie Magnus likewise. On her remarks about the former Deputy Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Dominic Raab), I draw her attention to the fact that in his letter to the Prime Minister last week, the Deputy Prime Minister said:

“I am genuinely sorry for any stress or offence that officials felt”.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

[Mr William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con)]

It surely cannot be beyond the wit of man, notwithstanding the constitutional differences between Members of Parliament and members of the Government, that some form of co-operation might not be devised by talking to one another. Might I make the suggestion to my hon. Friend, who is one of the ablest Ministers in the Cabinet Office, that he would be just the person to reach out in such circumstances, so that some degree of co-operation and co-ordination on this issue might be found?

[Alex Burghart]

My hon. Friend is an assiduous student of the constitution, the workings of this place and the Cabinet Office, and he will know that, while it is very important that we have separate lists, it is also within the remit of anybody who wishes to pick up those two separate reports—the list and the register—to compare them and to draw their conclusions, as necessary.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

We have ministerial declarations—interests list—that are updated not timeously, if they are updated at all. Will the Minister ensure that all ministerial declarations are published, not just those of Ministers who happen to have been sitting in the hot seat when the music stopped? We have Ministers and the Prime Minister announcing policy to the press first on a regular basis. The Prime Minister has lost numerous Ministers as a result of code breaches and there are various investigations ongoing. It seems that Ministers are happy to carry on erring until the point—beyond the point, in fact—that they are caught and until the point that the investigation finally reports and they finally choose to resign. What is the point in having a ministerial code if Ministers do not abide by either the letter or the spirit of that code, and continually breach it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Burghart]

I hope that the hon. Lady was not suggesting that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was dishonourable, because I think that would have been out of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. However, I am sure she will appreciate that the former independent adviser Lord Geidt said that the Prime Minister had been “assiduous” in his reporting. The report—the list— published by Sir Laurie Magnus just a few days ago suggests that he has been likewise in this return, as have all Ministers, and that wherever any perceived conflicts of interest have been found, they are being dealt with.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I want to just make absolutely certain that nothing has been said that ought not to have been said. I totally trust the hon. Member for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle) not to have said anything that she should not have said, but just let me make it clear to the House as a whole that, when we are discussing a sensitive subject such as this in particular, moderation is important and that reputations are important. I am sure the hon. Lady was indeed moderate in her use of words, as the Minister has been. I just want to make sure everybody else is.

[Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con)]

The ministerial code is, of course, there to regulate the broader aspects of ministerial behaviour, not just financial interests—that tends to be the issue that the House gets really concerned about, but actually it is the broader behaviours that are more important. Given that we have had such a turbulent 18 months with regard to the code, will my hon. Friend, or the Prime Minister, consider rebooting it and focus on exactly the values that we expect of Ministers? Specifically, could I invite him to clarify that the ministerial code is very important when Ministers are deploying their operational responsibilities?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)]

When the new, latest Prime Minister took charge, he promised integrity, professionalism and accountability, but after yet more sleaze and scandal was exposed by investigative journalists, and just minutes before Prime Minister’s questions, the register of interests was miraculously updated to include shares in Koru Kids which is owned by the Prime Minister’s wife, who would end up benefiting significantly from her husband’s policy changes. So, does the Minister not agree—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I warned Members earlier to be careful about what they say on this sensitive subject. There are certain matters which are sub judice or quasi-sub judice.

[Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Under investigation.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

My honourable helper here tells me that they are under investigation. When I said quasi-sub judice, that is what I meant, but I suppose I should not have said it all in Latin. I will say it in English: under investigation. I would be grateful if the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) would be general in his question.

[Mr Dhesi]

Thank you for that advice, Madam Deputy Speaker. Does the Minister not agree that we now have a Prime Minister who has to be forced—compelled, if not embarrassed—into showing any sort of transparency?

--- Later in debate ---

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

The problem the Minister has is that there is a pattern with the Prime Minister: he has already been fined for not wearing a seatbelt and for breaching covid rules, and he is currently being investigated over allegations about his registering of interests. Now, in an unprecedented move, it has been reported that the investigation has been widened because of allegations that it was discussed in public. Can the Minister explain why this Prime Minister, sadly much like his predecessor but one, seems to be—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I made it very, very clear in the past five minutes that questions were to be general and not refer to the investigation. I said it loudly and clearly. If the hon. Lady wants to ask a very brief general question, she may do so.

[Patricia Gibson]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I apologise. I tried to make my comments general by simply talking about allegations. I was talking about allegations, not about any investigation.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. Let us make this absolutely clear. An allegation made in public in this House is a very serious matter and it has consequences. I will give the hon. Lady one more chance to ask a brief general question.

[Patricia Gibson]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was simply going to ask the Minister if he can explain why he thinks the Prime Minister seems so accident prone when it comes to running his Government?

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Burghart]

We have an independent adviser and a ministerial code. This Government are delivering on the Prime Minister’s commitment to integrity and professionalism.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

The last word, as ever, goes to Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for his clarification and the answers that he is trying to deliver. Will he further outline whether clear guidance will be issued on what constitutes a conflict of interest and how far that extends, to ensure that this House does not continue to consider these matters with the current greyness?

[Sir Chris Bryant]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am grateful for what you said earlier. It is important for the Standards Committee and the commissioner to be able to do their work that we do not refer—preferably anywhere but certainly not in the Chamber—to ongoing investigations by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman is right, and I am pleased that he has made that point of order. It requires no answer from me other than to agree. Members ought to act honourably when they speak in the House—and everywhere—and not try to get as close as possible to saying something that they should not say. They ought to have a higher standard than that in the drafting of their questions, speeches and responses.