Finance Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Roger Mullin]

So that, no doubt, explains why you could not think up a reasoned amendment.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I let the hon. Gentleman get away with it the first time, but now that he has done it for the second time, I must point out to him that when he says “you” he means me, not the hon. Lady. I am quite sure that he is addressing his remarks not to me, but to the hon. Lady.

[Roger Mullin]

My apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Our amendment starts by stating:

“That this House declines to give a Second Reading to the Finance Bill because it fails to address the real economic needs of the country”.

As I sat through the Budget speech last week—in growing incredulity, it must be said—my greatest concerns were threefold: first, the crude and brutal attacks on protections for the most vulnerable in our society; secondly, the failure to address adequately the challenge of productivity in our economy—despite the remarks of the Minister at the Dispatch Box today, I will try to demonstrate why the Bill fails to address those requirements; and, thirdly, the impact on regional and national economies, not least in Scotland.

On receiving a copy of the Finance Bill and its associated papers, my concerns have not abated. Indeed, through reading the detail in the Bill, further concerns have come to light, and it is therefore my intention—and that of my colleagues—to table a series of detailed amendments in Committee.

Yesterday’s debate on the Welfare Bill exposed many of the negative effects that Government policy will have on the poor, the disabled, the vulnerable, the young, and in-work families. The Finance Bill adds another burden on hard-pressed families who will face a rise in national insurance premiums as a result of the increase in insurance premium tax.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr MacNeil]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again; he is underlining our friendliness. To build on the point from the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), I wish to say that the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) is absolutely right about the problem of connectivity with the south-east of England, where the airports are being built. It is not by accident. In the 40 years after world war two, there were bilateral air agreements specifying that planes had to fly into London airports, and we have paid for that. He is right about the Netherlands. The London docks lost out to Rotterdam, and it looks like it will happen again with the air infrastructure. As the chief executive of Schiphol said, it would be a good idea—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I call Sammy Wilson.

[Mr MacNeil]

The chief executive said it would be a good idea to have a long inquiry, and that is what is happening. It is taking too long.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I call Sammy Wilson.

[Sammy Wilson]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope you will indulge the hon. Gentleman, as it is his birthday today. Therefore, long interventions can perhaps be tolerated.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I would like to make it absolutely clear that there is no precedent for long interventions on an hon. Member’s birthday. However, we are about to rise for the summer recess and the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) made his intervention in such a charming way, and he’s made it.

[Sammy Wilson]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Salmond]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. The right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond) puts me in something of a dilemma, because he appears to be indicating that he wishes to take part in the debate, but I do not recall that he was here for the opening speeches. I do not think he was, was he? If he wishes to contradict me with evidence, I will of course accept his point. I will allow him to explain.

[Alex Salmond]

I am grateful for the opportunity, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have been here for some substantial time in this debate—not for the opening speeches, but longer than just about any Labour or Conservative Member, apart from those on the two Front Benches. Indeed, I was here when the total number of Labour and Conservative Members present was in single figures. I am well aware of the rules of the House, Madam Deputy Speaker—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. It is not for anyone else to judge who will speak and not speak in the Chamber. The right hon. Gentleman is, indeed, well aware of the rules of the House, as a seasoned performer in this Chamber. I know that he will appreciate that I also am aware that he was here for much of the debate, but not for the opening speeches. There are other people whom I have prevented from speaking earlier this afternoon because they were not here for the opening speeches. It is, however, obviously open to the right hon. Gentleman to intervene during the winding-up speeches that are about to begin from the Front Benches.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am very interested in your ruling. In future, will it not be open to members of the Whips Office, either Government or Opposition, to drag people in late in a debate to speak? Will that not be open to the Whips Office?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

That has never been the case. If a Member is not here for the Minister’s opening speech and the opening speech of the Opposition, whichever Opposition that might be, they do not have a right to be called in the debate. But I have just ruled that there is nothing to stop a Member making an intervention in the speech of another Member, should there be some very pressing and important point that that Member wishes to make.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I understand the ruling entirely, but will you clarify one thing? Is the speech of the principal spokesman from the Scottish National party to be deemed as an opening speech to which Members should be listening, or do the opening speeches principally come from the Treasury team and the Official Opposition?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Normally, speeches from the Treasury Front Bench and the Official Opposition Front Bench count as the opening speeches. But I have to say that that is a very narrow way of looking at the issue. If a Member wishes to take part in a debate—[Interruption.] Order. If a Member wishes to take part in a debate, it would be courteous and proper to be here for the whole of the debate. I am making no criticism of the right hon. Member for Gordon, who was here for much of yesterday’s debate and for much of today’s debate. I am just not allowing him to make a speech; it is not that I am not allowing him to say anything.

[Alex Salmond]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I just point out that it is not immediately obvious to Members that a Second Reading debate on the Finance Bill will not be able to fulfil its time slot—they are not aware of that at the start of a debate? But, Madam Deputy Speaker, may I say that, as ever, your ruling has been most gracefully made, and therefore will be most gracefully accepted.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his graceful point of order.

--- Later in debate ---

[Barbara Keeley]

I am glad that the Minister has managed to spare some time out of the 90 or so minutes that remain. I raised the issue of the care cap, to which he has not responded at all. It will cost £1 billion to bring in the nil-rate band on inheritance tax. The Minister talked about childcare, but he has not touched on that particular point. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I cannot hear the hon. Lady. The Members who have been in the Chamber for the whole debate will wish to hear her and the Minister’s answer. If other people, who have not been here for the debate, wish to have conversations, they can have them outside the Chamber.

[Barbara Keeley]

Will the Minister respond to the point I raised: is it reasonable to spend £1 billion so that people can pass on the value of their homes while others—people with dementia and other long-term conditions—can lose everything they have and all the value of their home through paying down care costs?