Ukraine

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I shall take that question in two parts. I agree with the first part. It is important that we have a strong EU response. We have already demonstrated, in relation to Iran, that the economic weapon can be a hugely important strategic tool. The EU and the US together represent about 46% of the world’s GDP, so if they align to impose economic sanctions on a third party, they will have an impact. We have shown that that is an important strategic weapon. NATO, of course, remains the cornerstone of our hard defence, and we must maintain the strength of that organisation, including by maintaining European NATO members’ level of defence spending in order to make a fair contribution and balance that of the US.

It is simply not true, however, that we are peripheral in this debate. It is true that we are not leading the discussions with Mr Putin. Mrs Merkel talks to him in Russian, and he talks to her in German; they have common languages and communicate with each other. We should use the best channel available, and that communication channel is the best available for that part of the task. We, on the other hand, are focusing on maintaining the backbone of the EU. Any of my EU colleagues who have been present in the Foreign Affairs Council meetings will confirm that we have been boringly insistent on the need to maintain these sanctions, however long the discussions take. We cannot afford casually to reduce our stance, because the Russians will take any sign of weakness or division, and open it out in a way that will be fatal to our position.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

With respect to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind), there is no point making war-like noises unless we are prepared to engage in war and see our sons and daughters die. The reason European public opinion is so relaxed is that we do not have a great stake in this matter. We talk about, “Putin this, Putin that”, but it is not just him; the overwhelming majority of Russians believe, for better or worse, that eastern Ukraine is inhabited by Russians who want to be autonomous and for centuries have been associated with Russia. If we go down the route advocated by my right hon. and learned Friend, we will have war without end. Russia could be in Kiev within four days. Surely we should support the present Foreign Secretary and the German Chancellor in trying to find a peaceful solution based on an autonomous eastern Ukraine.

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend could hardly expect me to disagree with that last sentiment. His point about Russian public opinion is, of course, true. Sadly, nationalism is easy to whip up, and at the moment Mr Putin is riding on a tide of nationalist sentiment, but as we move through 2015 and the consequences of his actions begin to bite on Russian consumers—let us remember that the entire burden of the economic sanctions and the decline in the oil price is effectively being transferred to Russian consumers in the depreciation of the rouble—they will find life getting very difficult, and I suggest that such a level of public support might not last.

European Union (Referendum) Bill

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Friday 17th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

It is very clear what the Bill provides. It will be the general election franchise that applies. That is the right franchise to use for a referendum of the whole of the United Kingdom.

There are some, on both sides of the House, who may want Britain to leave the European Union come what may. They are entitled to that view, but it is not one that I share. There are others, mainly on the Opposition Benches and the Liberal Democrat party, who want to stay in the EU come what may. They are entitled to their view, but it is also not one that I share. No change is not an option. The status quo in Europe is not in Britain’s interests, or in the interests of anyone in Europe. So what most of us want to see is a radically reformed Europe; a Europe where powers flow from Brussels back to the nations, not the other way round; a Europe of co-operating nations, not a European superstate; a Europe of open markets and free trade arrangements with the world beyond; a Europe that can out-compete the best in the world, without red tape and regulation weighing it down. But most of all we want to see a Europe on which the British people have had their say. Whether we think that the European Union is perfection beyond improvement, like Labour, or irredeemably flawed, like a few of my hon. Friends, or, indeed, capable of the substantive reform that most of us on the Conservative Benches seek, we should all be able to agree that, after all the reform and renegotiation, after everyone has had their say, the ultimate decision on whether to go or whether to stay should rest with the British people.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

I agree with everything that the Foreign Secretary is saying on this point of renegotiation. Surely in Europe, particularly in Germany, they are so desperate that we stay in—quite rightly—that we can have a substantial renegotiation, and in particular we can reclaim control of our borders.

[Mr Hammond]

That is exactly the message I get as I travel around Europe. Germans, Dutch, Swedes and others understand Britain’s critical role as a balancing weight in the complex structure that is the European Union. They understand that, without Britain, the European Union would change fundamentally, and in a way that would be fundamentally inimical to their national interests. So we can have this negotiation. I am confident that we will be able to have a serious and proper discussion with our European colleagues.

The key point is that, on the basis of my hon. Friend’s Bill, when we have completed the negotiations and brought back the result, the question will not be whether Parliament thinks that the outcome is good enough, but whether the British people do. That will be good not only for our democracy, but for our negotiating position, because our partners in Europe will know that they cannot do deals with politicians in smoke-filled rooms; they will have to come up with something meaty and substantial that will work for the British people.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 14th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I do not have the statistics on the current state of the programme to hand, but it is working and applications are being processed. I am very happy to write to the hon. Gentleman with the exact current state of affairs.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

3. What discussions he has had with his counterparts in the middle east about the situation in Iraq.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

I recently travelled to the Gulf for discussions with the Governments of Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Qatar to better understand the views of our closest allies in the region on the situation in Iraq. There is a shared view that only a political solution, based on a more inclusive Government in Iraq, can turn the tide against ISIS.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Would this House of Commons not be in a shameful position if, having caused this murderous civil war between Sunni and Shi’a by our wrong-headed invasion of Iraq, we now washed our hands of the situation? Nobody wants to commit ground troops again, but is there not a case to be made for committing advisers and, if necessary, special forces—any means necessary short of ground troops—to show our moral support for the existing Government in Iraq?

[Mr Hammond]

We have made it clear that we believe there are two steps. The first is a political solution to the situation in Iraq. Iraq must have an inclusive Government in order to rally the Iraqi security forces and to be able to provide an appropriate defence against the ISIS incursion. Our focus at the moment is on encouraging the formation of such an inclusive Government in Baghdad. Once a Government with broad legitimacy in the country is established, we will be open to considering requests for technical advice and support from that Government to reinforce the Iraqi security forces.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

T5. The Red Arrows based at Scampton in my constituency are one of the most popular public faces of the RAF, but unfortunately their Hawk T1 aircraft ends its service in 2018. Can the Secretary of State give me an assurance that RAF Scampton has a future with the Red Arrows and that they will be provided with suitable aircraft?

[Mr Philip Hammond]

The decision on replacement aircraft for the Red Arrows does not have to be made until 2018, but my hon. Friend will have heard the Prime Minister say that, so long as he is Prime Minister, the Red Arrows will continue to fly.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 3rd February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Let me tell him what I had in mind. The French have recently conducted a limited operation in Mali; it was limited in time and in scope, and they have been able to carry public opinion with them on that. We are going to have to recognise, in the face of sceptical public opinion about engagement, that some of the engagements we might wish to propose will need to be quite specifically limited in time and scale in order to gain public assent.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Assuming that Ministers feel that their job is to protect not only the sacrifices made by the present generation of armed forces personnel but that of previous generations, will they take the opportunity of the debates in the coming months to argue that the sacrifices made by the millions of people who served in the first world war was not part of some European power play, and that it served to defeat militarism and stand up for the freedom of smaller countries?

Armed Forces Restructuring

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Thursday 23rd January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

Let me just be clear about what we are talking about, as although the hon. Lady may understand this, perhaps not all hon. Members do. When people reach their immediate pension point they can leave the Army, notwithstanding the fact that they may be only in their 40s, and take an immediate pension. When somebody is close to, but has not reached, their immediate pension point when they leave the Army through a redundancy, they receive an enhanced lump sum redundancy package to reflect that fact and they still, of course, retain their pension rights when they reach their pensionable age of 60 or 65, depending on what pension scheme they are in. We have looked at the alternatives and concluded that all of them would deliver at least as much unfairness to other groups, and that this is the fairest and most appropriate way to proceed.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

We were told, understandably, that the armed forces had to take their share of pain through the time of recession. Surely, by the same coin, as the economy is growing they can take their share of the gain. If the reserve recruitment programme does not go as well as we all hope it will go, can we at least keep the door open—I am not asking for a commitment now—to once again recruiting more for the Regular Army in the future and increasing it to meet our commitments as they arise?

[Mr Hammond]

I can say two things on that to my hon. Friend. First, unfortunately, the scale of the damage to our public finances is such that, as the Chancellor set out a couple of weeks ago, although the economy may be recovering, we have not yet dealt with the structural deficit we inherited from the Labour party, and it will take some years yet to correct the fiscal imbalances that we face in this country. However, he is right to say that we should never say never, and one of the key drivers in our restructuring of the Army is to ensure that we retain a capability to regenerate force, so that if at some future point our public priorities change or external circumstances force us to change them, we will have the capability within our armed forces to expand again and regenerate that capability.

Aircraft Carriers and UK Shipbuilding

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Wednesday 6th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

The Type 26 order will not be placed until the design is mature, which will not be until towards the end of next year, and so the hon. Gentleman’s question is premature. A significant number of workers who are nominally based on the Clyde are being bussed on a daily basis to Rosyth to boost the work force during the carrier assembly phase, so the announcement made by BAE Systems should be read in that context. My understanding from Babcock is that the yard at Rosyth has a bright future with private sector work—offshore work—as well as with the programme to assemble both the Queen Elizabeth and the Prince of Wales, which itself will keep the yard busy until 2020.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Has Whitehall finally learned the lessons from what, from a public accounts point of view, must be one of the worst politically driven, stop-start contracts in our history? Will the Secretary of State assure us that never again will the Treasury insist on delaying a contract for one or two years to save money and end up with a cost of hundreds of millions of pounds more? Just so that the taxpayer knows exactly how much this has cost him, will the Secretary of State repeat what the carriers were supposed to cost originally and what they are now costing us, and when the planes were supposed to be flying operationally from them and when they will actually fly?

[Mr Hammond]

It is always a brave person who says that Whitehall has learned the lessons. I can certainly give my hon. Friend this commitment: as long as I am Secretary of State for Defence, we will not be placing any contracts for things that we have not designed and we will not be driving cost into projects by making announcements of delay that are simply driven by the exigencies of poor budgeting and poor financial control. He asked me to repeat the numbers. When the project was announced in 2008 it had a budget line attached to it of £3.6 billion, but of course when the previous Government first proposed the aircraft carrier project the budget was much less than that, at £2.25 billion. Nobody I have met, in the industry or in the Navy, ever believed the project could be built for £3.6 billion. There was a degree of fantasy accounting going on, the reasons for which I will leave my hon. Friend to speculate upon.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 4th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

The targets that we will publish will be national, but the hon. Gentleman is right that there will be different recruiting challenges in different parts of the country. The job for us is to ensure that the Army recruiting centre, the senior officers responsible for it and their recruitment partners, Capita, are agile enough to respond to the data coming in from the front line in the recruitment campaign and flex that campaign accordingly. The plan will not be implemented without change over five years; it will be highly responsive and we will monitor it regularly.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

As the Secretary of State has confirmed again today that failure to achieve the reservist recruitment numbers is not an option, surely there is now no difficulty in his repeating the pledge given by his predecessor that the Regular Army will not be cut until those reservists are recruited.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 2nd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

8. Whether his Department has undertaken a cost-benefit analysis of a Trident replacement; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

A cost-benefit analysis of possible nuclear deterrent systems was carried out for the 2006 White Paper, “The Future of the United Kingdom’s Nuclear Deterrent”. This demonstrated that a submarine-launched ballistic missile system based on Trident was the most cost-effective solution to the UK’s requirement. The recently published “Trident Alternatives Review” supports the judgments made in 2006 and demonstrates that the renewal of the current Trident-based system is the most cost-effective and capable nuclear deterrent for the UK.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Just because Trident is obviously the best new nuclear deterrent, surely we should still worry about, and be aware of, costs. Given that submarine programmes have a history of vast cost overruns—50% in the case of the Astute class programme—will the Secretary of State assure the House that he is keeping a close eye on costs and that he is broadly confident that he can deliver Trident on time and on budget?

[Mr Hammond]

We have not yet contracted but, as I said in response to the question asked by the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), we believe that the costs of replacing the Trident deterrent will fall within the estimates set out in the 2006 White Paper. I should say to my hon. Friend that we have made significant strides to reform the way in which the submarine enterprise is conducted, and we believe that the MOD has a much firmer control of the enterprise’s cost base than has previously been the case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Philip Hammond]

If the hon. Lady cares to read the original interview that General Sir Nick Houghton gave to the in-house magazine, she will see that there is a slightly different slant in that story to that in some national newspapers. The Chief of the Defence Staff was saying that we have perhaps not communicated our vision of Future Force 2020 and what it offers to the people in our armed forces as well as we could or should have done. That is why I included in the list of my priorities that I gave a few moments ago the communication of the challenges and opportunities of Future Force 2020 to our own people.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

T5. Given that for four centuries, Scotland and the Scottish people have played such a glorious part in the defence of our United Kingdom, and that from the battles of Malplaquet and Blenheim to the sands of north Africa and the mud of Flanders we have shed blood together, would it not be a good idea if Armed Forces day 2014 was held in Scotland?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 17th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I think there is a hypothetical hidden premise in the right hon. Gentleman’s question. The UK has made no decision to arm the rebels in Syria and we maintain our focus on achieving a political solution, in particular at the Geneva II peace conference, and that will be a central theme of the discussions going on right now in Lough Erne. We must, of course, leave all options on the table while the terrible attrition of the Syrian population continues at the hands of the Assad regime.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

8. What plans he has for his Department’s facilities in Lincolnshire and the east midlands.

Future Reserves 2020

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

That would be a separate issue, and I do not want to confuse the two issues. It is an important area, however, and, as the hon. Lady will know, the Prime Minister has recently appointed Lord Ashcroft to act as a champion for veterans’ transition, focusing in particular on how we support veterans out of the service and into employment. I would not want the House to have the impression that large numbers of ex-service people are unemployed, however. Some 90% of those service leavers who are seeking work have found employment within six months of leaving. Given the economic backdrop, I think that is quite a reasonable achievement.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

When I joined the TA, there was no difficulty in getting recruits. There was Monday night in the drill hall with one’s chums, the occasional weekend on Salisbury plain, and two weeks’ camp in Germany. Is there not a real problem now, however, in that the Secretary of State is asking people to devote perhaps one year in five to being in a very challenging and dangerous environment such as Afghanistan? What will happen if we simply do not get the recruits? Does that point not underline the importance of maintaining the standing regular Army, rather than relying on future projections of TA numbers that may not materialise?

[Mr Hammond]

There are different types of recruits and, to put it frankly, I say with the greatest respect to my hon. Friend that someone who is looking to join up in order to prop up a bar on a Monday night and have an occasional outing on Salisbury plain is probably not the person we are looking for. All the discussions I have had with reservists suggest to me that they want to be taken seriously, and they know that a higher training tariff, a greater focus on skills and much more working together with the regular Army—sharing the burden of routine tasks and routine deployments with it—is the way to increase the esteem in which the reserve is held.

What we are doing on the size of the regular Army is determined by the budgetary envelope we have as a result of the black hole in the defence budget that we inherited. The exercise announced today is about ensuring that, notwithstanding that necessity, we maintain the military capacity we need in the future.

Afghanistan (Force Protection)

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 17th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Can we not just be calm and rational, and concentrate on our national interest, which is our own defence? Given that the old Liberal Imperialist dream of making Afghanistan safe for democracy is dead and that, after 2014, the Taliban will be in control of large areas of the country, why do we not concentrate on our national security, on the use of special forces and drone attacks to keep the heads of the Taliban down, and not pretend that we are in there to fulfil our national destiny of promoting democracy in Afghanistan? It will not happen.

[Mr Hammond]

I have said very clearly that the role of British forces there is to protect Britain’s national security interests. In my judgment, and that of the Government and the military command, that will best be achieved by ensuring the capability of what is now a substantial Afghan security force to hold the ground after 2014, and to contain the insurgency—I do not live in a world where I imagine the insurgency will be defeated by military means—and to create the space for an inclusive, or semi-inclusive, political solution.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Would any further cuts in the armed forces be unsustainable?

[Mr Philip Hammond]

We have announced all the reductions in armed forces manpower required to deliver the outcome of the strategic defence and security review. The changes announced will allow us to deliver the Future Force 2020 structure in 2020.

Nuclear-powered Submarines

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 18th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to hear that I do not agree with any of that; I do not think he listened to the answer to the previous question but one. This is not an increase in the £3 billion previously announced; the part of it that relates to the successor programme was included within that £3 billion.[Official Report, 26 June 2012, Vol. 547, c. 6MC.]

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

May I thank the Secretary of State for also announcing this afternoon that he is saving RAF Scampton? We are very grateful. Does that not show the commitment of our party to defence? The issue is all about commitment. Once we commit the money, is it going to be realistically possible for anybody to cancel our Trident nuclear deterrent in the future? The answer is surely no.

[Mr Hammond]

As my hon. Friend knows, a review is being conducted, and we will look at its conclusions. The main gate decision, which will also have the benefit of the ongoing engineering and design work, on how many boats are needed—for example, to provide a credible nuclear deterrent—will be taken in 2016. As for RAF Scampton, I am sure you would encourage me not to go into that, Mr Speaker.

Defence Budget and Transformation

Debate between Edward Leigh and Lord Hammond of Runnymede

Monday 14th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

We have made it very clear that where there is a sovereign capability that needs to be retained in the UK—such as in complex warship building, aerospace technologies and submarine building—we will enter into agreements with the private companies that have that capacity in order to ensure it is sustained. The hon. Gentleman is completely wrong about the MARS—military afloat reach and sustainability—tankers, however. British companies were invited to tender and were involved in the process. In the end, none chose to submit a bid, and the only bid we received from a European company was far in excess of the winning bid, received from a South Korean company.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Any objective observer would want to congratulate the Secretary of State on the rigour he has brought to his job, but does he accept that balancing the budget may not, on its own, be enough? At other times in our history, we have balanced the budget; we may have done so in the mid-1930s, but we were spending far too little on defence. Is he aware that his greatest task may lie before him: convincing the Treasury, the Cabinet and the people that we simply have to spend a greater proportion of our national wealth on defence in what is a dangerous world?

[Mr Hammond]

What I can say to my hon. Friend is that the chiefs of staff sitting on the armed forces committee have written to me to confirm that, with the budget we are making available, they can deliver the force construct set out in the SDSR for Future Force 2020. I agree with him on this, however: balancing the budget in itself does not solve the problem. Anybody can cut a budget. The challenge is to make sure the money that is spent is spent efficiently and effectively, getting through to the sharp end and delivering the military capability we need. That is why we need to change the behaviours and practices in the MOD, not just the budget.