Office for Demographic Change Bill [HL]

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 4th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the perceptive remarks of the noble Viscount, Lord Craigavon. I also look forward to hearing from my noble friend Lord True, from his pivotal position in the Cabinet Office.

I support my noble friend Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts and his Bill. It is simple, will cost little and deals with a subject of the first importance; I say “of the first importance” because, in the long term, the effects of demographic change are perhaps the most important factor in the world.

By way of illustration of the truth of that proposition, I draw the House’s attention to a recently published book, Youthquake, by Edward Paice, which deals with the demography of Africa. In it, I learned that, by the middle of the century, Nigeria is expected to be more populous than the United States; that the extraordinary rate of growth of population in many African countries shows no signs of lessening, so far, at any rate, and despite forecasts to the contrary by those believing that increases in prosperity inevitably lead to a slowing birth rate; and that, by 2035, the African workforce is likely to exceed that of both China and India—today’s huge battalions—and be increasing at a greater rate. I defy anyone to say that all that will not have an impact on global and national politics, including in countries far from Africa, such as the UK.

I will increasingly focus on these trends—both the challenges and opportunities—in my work as chair of Crown Agents, a development organisation, and chair of the UK-ASEAN Business Council, both of which listed in my register of interests. However, we lack a strong foundation of accessible and objective data on demographics.

The UK’s demographic position is of course different, but the importance of demography in policy formation is every bit as important. I have the honour of chairing your Lordships’ Built Environment Committee. We recently produced a report on housing that drew heavily on all sorts of population estimates, including on ageing, on household formation—hence on divorce and other social mores—and on many other factors. Policies in almost all areas are influenced by demographics

I have on many occasions debated, particularly with my noble friend Lord Hodgson, my concern that the lack of proper dynamic projections of population means that these are not taken properly into account in policy-making and planning in key areas of importance to citizens. These include schools and universities, hospitals and primary care, transport provision, flooding, energy security and, of course, housing and green spaces. The new office would help to fill that gap.

If you do not know the facts, you will in general adopt worse policies. Arguing for the advantages of ignorance is always a hard task, yet when my noble friend has suggested a demographic office previously, that is effectively what the Government have done. Perhaps I am being a little unkind, in that the actual argument given was that such an office was unnecessary—no doubt said with a straight face.

The real reason why the suggestion does not commend itself is political fear, and we all know why. Among many concepts conjured up by the word “demography” are immigration and race, and they have rarely been linked with political advance. However, to my mind demography is much wider than that, and I urge the Government to show some courage, even if that might not follow the advice of Sir Humphrey. Government policies need the firmest possible foundations in fact and they need long-term thinking, not the short-term, narrow, business-led approach of the Migration Advisory Committee, which was mentioned the last time the matter was debated. Some of us are already tiring of the relentless short-term decision-making fuelled by 24-hour rolling news, Twitter and other social media. I think the new office would provide a powerful antidote.

In conclusion, the establishment of an office for demographic change of the kind recommended by my noble friend Lord Hodgson would be a good way of providing firm foundations in fact. It would bring new long-term thinkers and experts into government to the benefit of us all, and it would publish objective, impartial data on which we could all draw. The House of Lords should certainly be behind that.

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, I support my noble friend’s Bill and congratulate him on bringing it to your Lordships’ House.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My noble friend should be aware that the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, should be speaking.

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

I beg your pardon.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Baroness; it is such an excellent Bill that I got a little overenthusiastic.

I support my noble friend’s Bill and I congratulate him on bringing it to your Lordships’ House. I read his background briefing to Civitas, and I find it a most interesting document. I have long been an advocate and supporter of the ideas put forward by my noble friend Lord Tebbit when he served in Baroness Thatcher’s Government. His answer to the problem of large-scale unemployment was most controversial but, I believe, right. “On your bike”, he advocated, in order to find work. Today, that is very much the case. Many people I know from a wide variety of backgrounds have moved house and area to seek new employment, and they have had to retrain and learn new skills and trades. Indeed, I have a son who is a chartered surveyor who has done just that and moved three times, I think, in 12 years.

A movable workforce with changing skills to suit new markets is a fact of today’s modern life, and thus, demographics change constantly. Near where I live, the market town of Uttoxeter has changed dramatically over recent years, as has our county town, Stafford. There is new building in abundance, so those house developers and supermarkets must take demographics very seriously and their research must be meticulous.

The knock-on effect of demographic change is considerable, and it affects so many issues, including boundary changes of parliamentary constituencies. As my noble friend says in the summary of his document, population changes past and present arouse very strong emotions, and those changes affect every part of our national life. I say “Hear, hear” to that: they affect schooling, healthcare and myriad areas.

Therefore, in conclusion, the establishment of an office for demographic change would, in my view, be a most necessary and important step forward. I support the Bill and wish my noble friend every success with it.

Gender-balanced Parliament and Male Primogeniture

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, it is not for me to comment on legislation in the forthcoming Session, but I would advise the noble Lord not to be a betting man.

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will be totally aware that I am a product of male primogeniture, and he will realise, no doubt, that I have an interest in the whole subject. What plans, if any, do Her Majesty’s Government have to amend male primogeniture in the hereditary peerage and baronetage?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, a review is not currently under way. As I have explained, this is a complex issue and careful consideration will be needed.

Budget Statement

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

Friday 12th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, I also congratulate my noble friend Lord Bellingham on an excellent maiden speech. As his Whip, I expect to be obeyed. I am looking forward to listening to him in the future.

I also congratulate my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Chancellor on the financial support initiatives that have been provided for businesses and individuals alike throughout the pandemic. They have received much criticism from the other political parties but, without those support packages, this country’s economy would be in a very different place. This has all been uncharted territory, so being critical of the Government’s actions is somewhat disingenuous; I doubt that anyone could have done a better job.

In the business section of yesterday’s Times, an article based on a recent report by PwC stated that a survey of 5,000 global business leaders found that Britain is

“a more attractive investment proposition for multinational companies than it was before Brexit”

and stated that we are now

“the world’s fourth most promising growth opportunity”.

Therefore, we must build on that good news. Surely, instead of hiking corporation tax to 25%, my right honourable friend should instigate a root-and-branch reform of our overcomplex tax regime, developing a simplified low-tax system to attract foreign companies. We need to incentivise, not penalise, our business community—we are a nation of entrepreneurs; we need to encourage those businesses.

In such a reformed tax system, there would be less inclination to try to avoid paying taxes and more incentive to invest and grow. We have to take a long-term position, and we know that it will take a very long time indeed to repair the financial damage caused by this pandemic. I believe that tax reform is key to growth and future success.

I make a plea to my right honourable friends to recognise the tremendous dedication and service provided by our NHS nurses in a better pay award. An award of 1% is derisory. No matter how much we applaud them, kind words do not pay bills. They deserve better.

Financial Services Bill

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 28th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, I, too, congratulate my noble friend Lord Hammond of Runnymede on an excellent maiden speech. I refer noble Lords to my entry in the register.

The EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement, which came into force on 1 January this year, is a free-trade agreement that does not facilitate the same access to the EU single market, for the UK’s financial services, as that which was available pre-Brexit. The EU passporting regime is founded on a 20-year history and there are nine different passports that cover financial services, from core banking services such as lending and deposit taking, through to asset management and more. Each passport is embedded in a particular EU directive or regulation, establishing the basic rules for that activity.

Your Lordships will be fully aware that, from 1 January, the passporting regime was no longer available to UK-based financial services firms. Consequently, the extent to which UK firms can continue to provide services to customers in the EEA or EU will depend on local law and local regulators’ expectations or a grant of equivalence from the European Commission. Conversely, EEA-based firms must now either have a UK-based operation, be able to rely on an exemption or exclusion or be acting in accordance with one of the UK’s temporary regimes in order to undertake regulated activity in the UK.

The removal of the passporting regime, together with the uncertainty duly generated, has resulted in financial firms operating in the UK relocating around 7,500 employees and more than £1.2 trillion-worth of assets from the UK to the EU. Over 40 financial firms have announced plans to make local hires for existing or newly created roles in Europe, equating to over 2,850 additional new jobs. There are alternatives to passporting, but they are complex and I do not have sufficient time available today to visit them in this debate. The European Commission can grant equivalence to a third country if it seems that the laws of that country have the same intention and produce more or less the same outcomes as the laws of the EU. However, the Commission can also unilaterally withdraw equivalence, should the situation change, within 30 days. It is my understanding that, in order to prevent the Commission from withdrawing equivalence at short notice on the grounds that the UK rules diverge materially from those of the EU, the UK is seeking a form of enhanced equivalence whereby both parties would regularly update each other on new regulations. Given that financial services were specifically excluded from the TCA, what efforts are the Government making to ensure that passporting rights—and, in the absence of those, equivalence rights—and access to the EU for the UK financial services industry are secured? Further, depending on the outcome of the discussions between the UK and the EU regarding equivalence, what additional measures are the Government proposing to take to support the UK financial services industry and reinforce its competitive advantage?

I am aware that the sector has a number of specific concerns, which include the temporary permissions regime and the capital markets union, with further concerns held by the UK funds industry and the UK insurance industry. My understanding is that, in November last, my right honourable friend the Chancellor announced that the UK proposed to recognise the equivalent status of EU financial services laws in a number of key areas, including those that I have just mentioned. By granting equivalence to EEA-member states in three of those areas, the UK acknowledged that insurers and reinsurers, established in the EEA, have the same capital and governance requirements as UK firms. This gesture of good will from the Government has, I believe, not yet been reciprocated by the European Commission, which has yet to take any action whatsoever towards granting similar rights. Are we surprised? Nothing changes.

This is a complex and substantial Bill, which aims to improve the UK regulatory framework for financial services following the end of the Brexit transition period and I support it. Doubtless it will receive much scrutiny during the stages to come, but we must remember that the other place gave it its support and we, too, should give it a fair wind.

EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

Friday 8th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the vote on 30 December, followed by our exit from the EU on the 31st, was a truly remarkable couple of events in the history of this country. In the face of constant adversity and amidst negative attitudes from many, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and my noble friend Lord Frost pulled off a Canada-style deal that was thought impossible. I applaud their tenacity and skill.

I believe that our future outside the EU looks exciting and full of opportunities. Last Sunday, I read a press article written by one of this country’s most successful businessmen and exporters: my noble friend Lord Bamford. As your Lordships will be aware, my noble friend makes construction equipment, which is exported to all four corners of the globe. In the article, he said that, since it was founded in 1945, his company has grown to export products to over 150 countries worldwide. He stated:

“Let us be a lot more like the Germans when it comes to exporting. We really do need to be exporting a lot more … We just need to seize more of the opportunities.”


He should know—those policies have served him extremely well. The CBI, the chambers of commerce and UK Export Finance have a major role to play in exploiting fully all the opportunities that will be provided by the dozens of new trade deals that the UK is entering into. It is bound to be a bumpy ride but the rewards could be phenomenal.

I agree wholeheartedly with my noble friend Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth when he says that there is much vital work to do to rebuild our friendship and trust with our European Union friends and neighbours. Now is the time to concentrate on building a successful and prosperous future—not continually carp on about the past like some noble Lords insist on doing. The future of this country is far more important than their views.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 8th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lipsey (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I support the amendment and I want to focus on one particular point. The Minister, in replying to the debate in Committee, put great weight on the support that he alleged his proposals had received from interested parties. I shall quote him:

“Prior to the Bill’s introduction we engaged with all the parliamentary parties and with the electoral administrator representatives, and an eight-year cycle was the one that was supported.”—[Official Report, 8/9/20; col. GC 171.]


I had hoped for rather more than that, so I put down a PQ. I did not get a lot more in response; I will come back to that in a moment. It said:

“Ahead of the Bill’s introduction, the Government engaged with parliamentary parties, and electoral administrator representatives, and there was general acceptance of an 8-year cycle.”


In Committee, the Minister said the eight-year cycle was “supported”, but in reply to the PQ he said it was accepted. Those are very different things. Being supportive is, “What a jolly good idea, Minister. How wise you are.” Being accepting is, “Well, Minister, if that is really what you want, I suppose that we will have to go along with it.” That comes perilously close to misleading the House.

I would be inclined to forgive the Minister for that if, when he winds up the debate, he is able to give a clear and concise summary of exactly what the consultation consisted of, who was consulted and exactly what their replies were. If he cannot do that in winding up—I understand that he might be a bit short of time—I would be grateful if he would give a commitment to write to all noble Lords involved in this debate setting out at greater length and in more detail what the consultation was. In doing so, he will make us a great deal more confident that this is not a product of ministerial whim and the justification for it thought up only after the event.

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lord, I believe that it is sensible to have more frequent boundary reviews than those being proposed in the amendment. Prior to Covid, this country was enjoying very substantial employment figures and people were relocating around the country to where the jobs were to be found. However, the pandemic has changed absolutely everything. The jobs market is dreadful and getting worse, and when we eventually arrive at a new normal, I suggest that it will bear little resemblance to what we knew pre-Covid. Jobs will be extremely difficult to come by, and to find employment people will have to translocate in pursuit of work. This will inevitably change the shape and size of many constituencies and demographics in general. That is one reason that I believe it is vital that boundaries are reviewed on a more frequent basis than that being proposed in this amendment. That is why I shall support the Government.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the noble Earl, Lord Shrewsbury, not least because of his own and his family’s historic links with the city of Sheffield. However, I have to disagree with him on this occasion. I shall speak briefly in favour of the amendments because I want to speak again on Amendment 12 and the substantive issue around that.

To pick up the point that was just made by the noble Earl, if we are not to have the catastrophe of a major shift in population further away from the north of England, we will have to take the opportunity of the use of social media and more imaginative and creative ways of bringing jobs to people, rather than people having to go to existing jobs; otherwise, we will have an even greater imbalance in the country, both economically and socially, than we have already.

The simple point I want to make is one that I made in Grand Committee. Unlike the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, I do not believe that the issue is about the Member getting to know the constituency before they are elected, if they are lucky enough to be so; it is about the constituents getting to know the elected Member. In the single-member constituency framework that we have and of which I am in favour, it is absolutely fundamental that the constituents know who is representing them, that they know where to contact them and that a constituency Member gets to know the critical areas of the community so that they become a voice for the area, whichever party they start off representing.

I want to make just one additional point in response to the noble Baroness who has spoken against these amendments. I experienced an interim boundary change because of local authority boundary reorganisations. It was nowhere near as disruptive as the major and complete rebanding of constituencies in the period that I experienced otherwise. It added a part of Hillsborough into the Brightside constituency, which has allowed me to take the title of Brightside and Hillsborough—although I spent a lot of time in Hillsborough, not least in the football ground, when we were permitted to do so.

This is all about stability and the arrangements that complement and develop the concept of the citizen knowing who represents them in our system. These amendments are a sensible way of ensuring that we do not have constant disruption. That may be good for numerical equality, which we will come to later, but it has absolutely nothing to do with democratic representation.

House of Lords: Number of Members

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot follow the noble Baroness on many of the things that she has said, other than I hope that one day we might get back to not being a virtual House—that I do agree with. I repeat that there are difficulties in relation to this House: it is unelected, Members sit for life and the House cannot be dissolved. That raises issues for reflection on a cap, as the previous Prime Minister implied.

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, as an excepted hereditary Peer, I am obviously fair game. However, does my noble friend not agree that one way to reduce the size of this House is to ask the Liberal Democrat Benches to reduce their number to one which is proportionate to their share of the national vote?

[Lord True (Con)]

My noble friend is spot on on that one, and I hear assent in many parts of the House—perhaps not all. That used to be that party’s policy, and perhaps it would be good if it returned to it.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 27th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend the Minister on introducing the Bill most ably. I welcome the Bill and will make a couple of brief observations.

Times have changed dramatically since the early part of this year, let alone since 2000. The circumstances in which we now find ourselves are, at the very least, most challenging, and the future extremely unclear. Before Covid-19 hit, we had a vibrant jobs market with many and varied skill requirements. That meant a considerable movement of labour around the country, and demographics had already undergone much change in recent years. With the uncertainties of today and a jobs market under enormous negative pressure, it is highly likely that when we reach a new normal, those demographics will change even more, and even more often.

This situation, and the challenges of life outside the EU—of which I am a strong supporter—indicate that the voting public need more and better representation in Parliament. Consequently, their representatives will have an increased workload, so I support Her Majesty’s Government’s plans to maintain 650 constituencies and introduce an automatic system for implementing boundary changes recommended by the commission. Very little good came out of the coalition, but I am delighted to wish this Bill well.

Finance Bill

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

2nd reading & Committee negatived & 3rd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 17th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, I agree entirely with my noble friends Lord Blencathra and Lord Empey. They could not have hit the nail more clearly on the head. On the way to the station this morning to come down on an 11-carriage train from Stoke-on-Trent, with two people in my carriage, I listened to Ken Clarke, the former Chancellor, on Radio 4—as I am sure many of your Lordships did—deliberating on doom and gloom. When I got to the station, I realised what he was talking about.

The Government have done very well with their measures—furlough, bounce-back and this sort of thing. In my carriage on the way down here, there was one other person. He was a businessman who had an engineering company dealing with energy in Buxton in north Derbyshire, fairly close to where I live. He told me that he had not taken a penny in furlough money but was finding it incredibly difficult. Much of his business was done in London, and he was finding it difficult to travel here to meet the people whom he uses as financiers. A message came to me very clearly indeed: we have to get back to work and we have to do it soon.

Following on from what my noble friend Lord Empey said, I will mention two things which are key to recovering from this terrible situation. The first is training, retraining and the teaching of skills. I come originally from near Shrewsbury. Very close by is Ironbridge, the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution. In Bridgnorth, a town not that far away from there, there is an excellent firm called SD Technology, which runs training, retraining and skills courses. It is about to go under because of lack of funding, and we need it badly. Can I ask my noble friend on the Front Bench whether I can put his officials and SD Technology together so that they can discuss the way forward for the very necessary teaching and training of skills?

My second point is that I firmly believe that large infrastructure projects are a serious key to recovery. I have never been a fan of HS2—it is a dreadful scheme—but in these extraordinary times in which we find ourselves, I am sure that it is a key to the future. It will employ a lot of people. It will produce a lot of employment elsewhere in secondary places. With all these large infrastructure projects, so many things trickle down to fund other things. We really need to do that. It is much better than furlough. It is the way forward.

Internet: Copycat Websites

Earl of Shrewsbury Excerpts

Thursday 21st November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I am not entirely sure that I am familiar with the legal subtleties of this. A number of government agencies and authorities have looked in detail at this and we are in constant dialogue with the search engines about these sites. As I said, they are extremely well designed and all of them claim to offer additional services, but there are occasional complaints that the additional services are not fully provided.

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I became a victim of a TfL scam on congestion charging some three weeks ago? When I phoned my bank to stop the payment, I was told that it could not be stopped because the money was taken at point of sale. It is quite disgraceful that these people are able to do this. Will my noble friend do all that he can to marginalise the perpetrators of these scams?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the Government Digital Service, by whom I was fully briefed for this Question, is actively working with other departments of government to see how far it can control this. Of course, not all of these sites are hosted within the UK. We are familiar with many overseas agencies that get into the ether and do this.