Yemen
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord Campbell of Pittenweem
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, my noble friend asks me a question about the value of arms sales to which I do not have the answer. I will write to her and place a copy in the Library. As I said before, though, the important issue is that these arms are not used against international humanitarian law. The fact is that we do this by studying them and making sure that they comply with criterion 2c.
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)
My Lords, notwithstanding the agreement that has been referred to so far, the fact is that the conflict between the coalition and the Houthis remains deadlocked but there have been some reports that the Houthis have offered to desist from aerial attacks into Saudi Arabia. Is the Minister aware of such reports? Has he any understanding as to whether or not they are accurate? If so, what is his assessment of the capacity of that to help to bring about a comprehensive ceasefire?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, mentioned attacks from inside Yemen into Saudi Arabia. Responsibility for these attacks was claimed by the Houthis. It is understood that they most probably do not actually have the ability to launch such attacks. The fact is that what we have to look at is the arms supply coming out of Iran to the Houthis. Iran must comply with the UN Security Council in banning all imports of arms to the Houthis in Yemen.
Saudi Arabia: Arms Export Licences
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord Campbell of Pittenweem(5 years, 1 month ago)
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The Earl of Courtown
I thank the noble Lord for his questions and comments. Yes, we recognise that there have been mistakes. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State has made it quite clear that she apologises fully for these breaches, and we have every intention of halting them happening again.
The noble Lord linked the issue relating to possible human rights violations. The UK takes all allegations of violations of international humanitarian law extremely seriously. Whenever the UK receives reports of alleged violations of human rights, we routinely seek information from all credible sources—this is important—including from NGOs and international organisations. We regularly raise this issue with our allies in Saudi Arabia and are pleased that they are conducting investigations into any violations that have happened through the group that they have set up.
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)
My Lords, I also welcome the detailed account that the noble Earl has given of the steps that have been, and are being, taken to remedy the circumstances that bring us here today. There is some interest in the notion that the Secretary of State felt it necessary to apologise to the court. Perhaps that might become a policy throughout government. Perhaps the noble Earl might like to reflect the welcome that that has received in this House when next he goes to No. 10 Downing Street.
I guess that the noble Earl has before him the Question that I asked on 4 September and the response from the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad. On that occasion, I asked about the question of export licences and I was assured—I stress again that I am quoting the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad—that,
“we have adhered to the undertaking to grant no new licences”.—[Official Report, 4/9/19; col. 1005.]
It now appears that that statement, which I have no doubt was given in good faith, requires revision.
What is the financial value of arms being exported to Saudi Arabia since 20 June under existing licences? I ask this because the undertaking given to the court only applied to new licences. Relevant to some of the points made by the noble Lord who spoke on behalf of the Labour Party a moment ago is the question of the total amount and total effectiveness of arms originating in United Kingdom and sent to Saudi Arabia, and the use to which they are put.
The noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, said he would write to me. Again, I am sure that that was said in good faith, and I hope that that might now be pursued—perhaps more easily be pursued given the nature of the investigations that are being carried out. However much we welcome the steps that are now being taken, the truth is that this is yet another matter of gross embarrassment for this Government.
The Earl of Courtown
I thank the noble Lord for his questions. He raises a number of points in relation to his question to my noble friend Lord Ahmad which, of course, as he rightly says, would have been answered in the greatest of good faith.
Perhaps I should clarify further on the licensing of arms to Saudi Arabia. We have already undertaken not to grant new licences for exports to Saudi Arabia and its coalition partners which might be used in the conflict in Yemen. As the noble Lord is aware, we continue to assess all other export licence applications against the consolidated EU and national arms export licensing criteria. I understand the concerns raised in both Houses and by the department as well that there have been breaches. However, I should reiterate the fact that we have one of the most robust export licensing control systems in the world.
The noble Lord also mentioned the value of arms sales to Saudi Arabia. I am afraid that I do not have that information with me. I will consult with my noble friend Lord Ahmad and colleagues in the department to ensure that the noble Lord gets a response.
Turkey: Russian Missiles
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord Campbell of Pittenweem
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I am not aware of exact discussions that the department has had on the sanctions issue. We are not imposing sanctions on Turkey but, at the start of the delivery of the S-400s, America is expected to trigger measures under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. The severity and timeline of imposing those measures is still being debated.
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)
My Lords, does the noble Earl accept that the political implications of this matter are just as important as the military? Does he recall that Mr Putin has twin foreign policy objectives? The first is the undermining of the European Union—with which he has had some assistance from the United Kingdom. The second is the destabilisation of NATO. The difficulty is that the United States has only recently offered Turkey the Patriot system, while Turkey has bought the S-400. The fact is that Mr Putin will not be laughing up his sleeve in the Kremlin—he will be laughing out loud.
The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord makes a number of points, including in relation to the Patriot weapons system, on which Turkey felt unable to continue negotiations. But the noble Lord’s points in relation to Russia are very worrying, and something about which we have great concern.
Iran: Nuclear Deal
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord Campbell of Pittenweem
The Earl of Courtown (Con)
My Lords, the UK’s position on the JCPOA is clear: we regard it as a crucial agreement that makes the world a safer place by neutralising the threat of a nuclear-armed Iran. The deal is working. There is no better alternative plan. We are engaging all partners following President Trump’s 12 January speech and working hard at all levels towards a strong agreement for the continued success of the JCPOA. We are clear that the deal is not rewritable.
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem
I am grateful to the noble Earl for that Answer, but I hope he will excuse me when I say that it does not convey the necessary urgency. If this agreement is renounced by President Trump, it will strike yet another grievous blow to the issue of nuclear arms control. President Trump opposes a renewal of the strategic arms control treaty with Russia, and Russia is already in breach of the intermediate nuclear weapons treaty fashioned by Gorbachev and Reagan in Iceland. The truth is that we are witnessing the fabric of nuclear arms control collapsing before our very eyes. Why are the Government not more vocal on these issues?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I agree with much of what the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, said, and he makes a number of important points. I should also add that we are in regular discussion with our partners on this issue. The E3 is working with the US to address President Trump’s concerns by agreeing a joint framework and we are holding regular high-level and expert meetings with French, German and US partners to agree a joint approach for the deal. The Question refers to the visit of President Macron to the United States this week, and later this week Chancellor Merkel will be there as well. All will be putting pressure on President Trump and the United States Administration to get this deal sorted out.
Armed Forces: Cuts
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord Campbell of Pittenweem
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, the noble Lord, with his great knowledge—far more than mine—has asked a question that I cannot answer. I can say that the NSCR is being undertaken to ensure that the UK’s investment in national security capabilities is as joined-up, effective and efficient as possible.
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)
My Lords, is it not the harsh, unpalatable truth that we are cutting not into fat or even muscle but now into the very bones of our defence capability? How else can one explain the decision—not speculated but in fact—to reduce the number of replacement Apache helicopters from 50 to 38 and, further, to consider the sale of HMS “Albion”?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, as I said earlier, press reports are pure speculation. There are always pressures on our defence budget but we will continue to enable our Armed Forces to carry out the job that we ask them to do in defending this country.