Saudi Arabia: Arms Export Licences

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Thursday 26th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Courtown]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions and comments. Yes, we recognise that there have been mistakes. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State has made it quite clear that she apologises fully for these breaches, and we have every intention of halting them happening again.

The noble Lord linked the issue relating to possible human rights violations. The UK takes all allegations of violations of international humanitarian law extremely seriously. Whenever the UK receives reports of alleged violations of human rights, we routinely seek information from all credible sources—this is important—including from NGOs and international organisations. We regularly raise this issue with our allies in Saudi Arabia and are pleased that they are conducting investigations into any violations that have happened through the group that they have set up.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I also welcome the detailed account that the noble Earl has given of the steps that have been, and are being, taken to remedy the circumstances that bring us here today. There is some interest in the notion that the Secretary of State felt it necessary to apologise to the court. Perhaps that might become a policy throughout government. Perhaps the noble Earl might like to reflect the welcome that that has received in this House when next he goes to No. 10 Downing Street.

I guess that the noble Earl has before him the Question that I asked on 4 September and the response from the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad. On that occasion, I asked about the question of export licences and I was assured—I stress again that I am quoting the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad—that,

“we have adhered to the undertaking to grant no new licences”.—[Official Report, 4/9/19; col. 1005.]

It now appears that that statement, which I have no doubt was given in good faith, requires revision.

What is the financial value of arms being exported to Saudi Arabia since 20 June under existing licences? I ask this because the undertaking given to the court only applied to new licences. Relevant to some of the points made by the noble Lord who spoke on behalf of the Labour Party a moment ago is the question of the total amount and total effectiveness of arms originating in United Kingdom and sent to Saudi Arabia, and the use to which they are put.

The noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, said he would write to me. Again, I am sure that that was said in good faith, and I hope that that might now be pursued—perhaps more easily be pursued given the nature of the investigations that are being carried out. However much we welcome the steps that are now being taken, the truth is that this is yet another matter of gross embarrassment for this Government.

[The Earl of Courtown]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions. He raises a number of points in relation to his question to my noble friend Lord Ahmad which, of course, as he rightly says, would have been answered in the greatest of good faith.

Perhaps I should clarify further on the licensing of arms to Saudi Arabia. We have already undertaken not to grant new licences for exports to Saudi Arabia and its coalition partners which might be used in the conflict in Yemen. As the noble Lord is aware, we continue to assess all other export licence applications against the consolidated EU and national arms export licensing criteria. I understand the concerns raised in both Houses and by the department as well that there have been breaches. However, I should reiterate the fact that we have one of the most robust export licensing control systems in the world.

The noble Lord also mentioned the value of arms sales to Saudi Arabia. I am afraid that I do not have that information with me. I will consult with my noble friend Lord Ahmad and colleagues in the department to ensure that the noble Lord gets a response.