Planning and Infrastructure Bill

Debate between Earl of Caithness and Earl Russell

Committee stage
Monday 15th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

No, it is not a witch hunt against Natural England by itself, because I think a lot of the agencies suffer from exactly the same problem. However, this Bill is giving Natural England huge executive powers which it has not got at the moment. Those executive powers should be used by the Secretary of State so that they can be questioned in Parliament.

My noble friend Lady Coffey also spoke about Natural England’s capabilities. It is worth looking at some of its capabilities. It manages a national nature reserve at Moor House; it is the only one it manages directly. It was supposed to be a beacon of best practice and demonstration. After 70 years of quango management, of the 25 sites of special scientific interest, only five are in favourable condition—as assessed by Natural England itself—and the rest, 80%, are either unfavourable, declining or in one case destroyed. In Dartmoor, the trust between farmers, landowners and Natural England broke down so seriously two years ago that the Conservative Government had to commission a review chaired by David Fursdon. That reflects very badly on Natural England.

More recently, Natural England launched a new interactive peat map and invited the public to use it to inform responses to a live Defra consultation on heather burning. One would think that was fairly simple and straightforward; what could go wrong? Well, within minutes of the map becoming live, owners, farmers and tenants highlighted major inaccuracies in this new mapping tool, making any work based on it of spurious value. These were not minor glitches, but a basic failure of environmental cartography. Natural England’s track record is not very good. In fact, it is pretty useless. I therefore strongly urge the Government to change the wording of the Bill as proposed in the amendments from my noble friend Lady Coffey and myself.

I commend and support the amendment from my noble friend Lord Lucas. If we are going to go down this route with Natural England, it is hugely important that trusted partners take on the work of running the EDPs. If you look at some of the farming clusters already set up and ready to do this, it is much better that people who live on and work the land are the ones who take over and run the EDPs, rather than a quango based elsewhere, which is not there on a daily basis. I will be talking more about the trusted partner in later amendments, but the principle of what my noble friend Lord Lucas wants to do is absolutely right.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak very briefly to this group of amendments on the role of Natural England. It is a big group, so I will not respond to everyone at this late hour. It is clear that there are remaining concerns about the Bill in terms of not weakening nature protections and the complexity of the new systems that are being put in place. There are two problems here. There is the complexity of what needs to be done and there is the issue of whether Natural England is able to deliver on what it is required to do under the terms set out in this legislation, should it be passed.

Natural England is absolutely central to delivering the environmental delivery plans and the nature restoration fund. I want to return very briefly to the comments in the paper today, because I think this is important. The Government cannot both create more complicated systems that as a result of their actions require more people to do more things, to see that the duties made by their legislation get done, and at the same time say that the actual organisations that need to deliver those need to be slashed and cut. Actually, that tension between what are almost two different sides of government worries me. It worries me a lot in terms of what is being done overall. I will just park that there.

Turning to the amendments of the noble Baroness, Lady Coffey, of course I fully understand the intention that it is about looking at responsibility, bringing in the Secretary of State and trying to hold the Secretary of State accountable for what is being done. There is an argument to say that Natural England may not be as accountable, and I understand that. My problem is that the Bill actually sets out a process where we have EDPs and the nature restoration fund and I do not think that just changing the wording of the Bill changes any of the complexities of the reality on the ground. There are other ways that we can do that, in terms of holding the Secretary to State to account in any case, and holding Natural England to account, so I do not particularly feel that that is a solution to the complexities that are created by the legislation.

I want to speak to Amendment 328A in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, and Amendment 333 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh. I was not certain whether Amendment 328A was a probing amendment, but the noble Lord has clarified that it is. As such, I welcome it and I look forward to the Minister’s response. My view is that the national park authority should be included, and I hope that is the case, but I look forward to hearing from the Minister on that.

Amendment 333 in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady McIntosh and Lady Young, seeks to clarify

“that the powers given to Natural England under Part 3 can only be delegated to a public body”.

I welcome this amendment. I think it is a good amendment. I also note what the Minister said on the previous group, that the intention of the Government was that it would only be a public body. We definitely welcome that statement. I think there is still perhaps a need to have this amendment to the Bill and, with that, I will sit down.

Great British Energy Bill

Debate between Earl of Caithness and Earl Russell

Committee stage
Monday 13th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak very briefly to respond to the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Fuller. We congratulate him on moving his first amendment—indeed, he got his own group of amendments together, which is to be welcomed. I am afraid that, on these Benches, we cannot support what he is doing; this is just not the right Bill to do it. Even if his amendments were successful, all they would do is limit the powers of Great British Energy to do this stuff; they do not limit any other organisation or body from doing it.

It is very important that the Government come forward with the land use framework as quickly as possible—these are important issues. My understanding is that that Bill should come through in April or around then. These are complicated issues; we are a small island and there is lots of competition on our land use.

Labour also promised us a rooftop solar revolution. We strongly support that and encourage the Government to continue to work on its delivery. France, for example, gets 5% of its electricity from solar panels on car parks. I would like to see this Government replicating that. We have heard about warehouses, but many are constructed to a standard that cannot take solar panels, because the roofs are not strong enough. We must do more to get solar panels into commercial spaces and housing.

I also encourage the Government to do more on the future homes standard. There is uncertainty about whether it will have proper, fit and strong purposes and standards for new-build houses. Then there is the issue of retrofitting existing houses and how we get more energy-efficient measures into them.

I will point out something to the Conservative Benches. The idea that we can either eat or have solar panels is a false dichotomy. I note that, while Amendment 67 applies to agricultural land of grades 1, 2 or 3, Amendment 73 applies to agricultural land of grades 4 and 5, so the Conservatives are covering quite a lot of grades with their amendments. I argue that climate change itself is the biggest issue for us in terms of food security, not solar panels that cover far less than 1% of our land. We have just had the worst harvest since 1988—if not ever, as some people say—and that was because of a continuous wet climate. We have had the failure of the last autumn and winter crops. It is climate change itself that is causing us to have problems with food security—and that is causing massive problems for our farmers.

I welcome the amendments but they are not ones that we can support.

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise to the Committee for missing the first bit of my noble friend’s introduction to his amendments. I take this opportunity to ask the Minister whether he could update the Committee on where we are with the land use strategy. Like the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, I, too, have been banging that drum for some time.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, gently chided my noble friend for the length of his introduction, I say to her that he is perfectly entitled to speak for 12 and a half minutes when introducing an amendment. That would not be the case if he were just one of the rest of us.