Hereditary Peers: By-elections

Duke of Montrose Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, again, we have discussed this before. I have made clear in this House and the Government have made clear that the proposed groundwork of the commission is being carried forward in separate workstreams—for example, the Faulks review on judicial work. We have decided to pursue this through separate workstreams.

[The Duke of Montrose (Con)]

My Lords, behind the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, lies a sentiment that has much wider appeal among Members, as emphasised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, which is that this House has too many Members. However, I consider the Question to be premature. Will the Minister consider whether the Act might give a precedent for legislation to ask all the major groups in the House to reduce their numbers by a similar self-selection process, as occurred under the Act? This could be by 20%, say, thereby reducing the numbers to become more in line with those in the other place without altering the current political balance.

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend puts forward an interesting suggestion. Some would say that what was proposed in 1999 worked well at the time, but I repeat that the Government believe that reform must be considered very carefully. I take note of what my noble friend has said.

Beyond Brexit (European Union Committee Report)

Duke of Montrose Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Duke of Montrose (Con)]

My Lords, I also congratulate my noble friend Lord Boswell on securing this debate. We urgently need to complete the structures of our new relationship with the EU and a vital focus needs to be what kind of friendship and influence we are seeking. We have just celebrated VE Day. As a boy, I believed all the belligerent rhetoric of that war and revelled in the news of the destruction of our enemies. But VE Day is a reminder that, actually, at a time of great peril, Britain gave its all for Europe out of a friendship that wanted the best for others as well as for ourselves.

Later, it was a revelation for me to travel across France in 1946 with my family and see the devastation of the cities. In Paris, we caught the moment where, for the first night since the liberation, Notre Dame was fully floodlit. On that journey, I met people from other countries who had suffered intolerably, learning something of their hopes and intentions. I became aware of the gigantic leap of faith that was required as the likes of Adenauer, Schuman and De Gasperi began to draw together people who had regarded each other as enemies in a process that culminated in the Treaty of Rome.

For a number of years I was involved in a programme of reconciliation in Europe and elsewhere which gave me much more appreciation of the divide that had to be bridged. The coronavirus presents an equal challenge for us and our neighbours. I back the theme of other noble Lords, that Britain should try to ensure that Europe as a whole is working towards greater inclusion of the developing world. We still need to recognise that much of our original wealth came from these regions and they rightfully expect the creation of a just economic order.

Brexit: Stability of the Union

Duke of Montrose Excerpts

Thursday 17th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Duke of Montrose (Con)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, for securing this timely debate. In the past week, the business of the House and the other place has been taken up almost entirely by considering fairly fundamental aspects of the governance of this country. Some may think that this has been fine and has not caused great disruption, but considering that it has meant reviewing all possible methods of bringing about constitutional change, it was bound to give new life to all the arguments about further reforms in our constitutional settlement.

As emphasised by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, that is particularly true for Scotland. This subject has a long history, of course, in which I always take an interest even if for no other reason than so many of my direct ancestors have been personally involved. Depending on your view, my family can be either credited or blamed for much that has happened in Scotland throughout her history. We were one of the signatories of the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320, resisting the pretensions of Edward I. A little later, a member of my family known as the 1st Marquis was one of the first signatories of the Scottish Covenant in 1638, objecting to the impositions and taxes of Charles I. Then, in 1707, as President of the Council in the Scottish Parliament, we oversaw the passing of the Act of Union and the financial and economic benefit that stemmed from that. Even more recently, I could consider my grandfather, who got into a spot of bother in 1932 for suggesting that Scotland should benefit from an element of devolution similar to what we have today.

So I have followed in great detail all the devolution legislation that has come through this House. Once the original Scottish devolution Act had been passed, those who put it together adopted as their mantra that devolution is not an Act of Parliament but a process. From day one, the practical rules have been subject to tweaks, adjustments and memoranda of understanding. No doubt this has been a great boon to the civil servants involved and those in the Scottish Government for their daily workings, but it has probably worked quite well even for the Scottish Parliament. However, what I feel has been missing is any chance for the UK legislature to consider whether these things suited the settlement that Scotland had within the UK and the interests of the UK Parliament at the time they were introduced. We have of course considered them when we have periodically reconsidered the Scotland Act, but that has been very much later.

There are a number of issues over which there is current contention. I wonder if there is any way that my noble friend the Minister can give us an indication of the grounds on which the Government are pursuing the case in the Supreme Court. This seems to be a question of the competence of the Scotland Act 1998 as regards the devolution of powers over agriculture and fisheries that were, and still are, the responsibility of the European Union. Section 29(2)(a) of the Act states:

“A provision is outside that competence”—


of the Scottish Parliament if—

“it would form part of the law of a country or territory other than Scotland, or confer … functions exercisable otherwise than in or as regards Scotland”,

which at the present moment still applies to both fisheries and agriculture. For the outcome, we will have to wait for the judgment of the court, but the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, has put his finger on a vital component which is needed: we need respect from both sides and it applies in both ways.

House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL]

Duke of Montrose Excerpts

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 7th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

Perhaps I may gently remind your Lordships that we are debating Amendment 17 onwards, which relate to the Earl Marshal and the Lord Great Chamberlain.

[The Duke of Montrose (Con)]

My Lord, perhaps I may have a little clarification on what I understood the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, to say. We are looking at the point that this Bill would not affect the Earl Marshal and the Lord Great Chamberlain, but in discussing that element, I thought that the noble Lord said that these two gentlemen are not required to be Members of this House. When they come to perform their ceremonial duties, I wonder whether they do not have to be Members of the House in order to stand in the areas where they are required.

[Lord Cormack]

Of course they do.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Duke of Montrose Excerpts

Tuesday 30th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Duke of Montrose (Con)]

My Lords, it is always a great pleasure to listen to the clear, analytical thinking of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill.

The Bill implies a fairly radical impact on two areas that have always been at the centre of my concerns: one being Scotland and devolution, the other being agriculture and fisheries. My interests, as many of your Lordships will know, have meant a lifetime spent in farming livestock in Scotland, and I have just retired after five years as president of the National Sheep Association of the United Kingdom. We have heard today from all Benches in this House highlights of the major areas where the Bill will have its effects. I want to look at just two that are major for me. The first is how we deal within devolution with abolishing EU authority when European regulation was the central core of our legislative arrangements. Similarly, the second is how we see the management and support of our rural areas.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, alerted the House to how far the present powers of the Bill simply will not do in the long term for Scotland and other devolved settlements. I am sure the promise made by the noble Baroness the Leader of the House in opening this debate that the Government already have in mind amendments that they wish to bring in offers some promise. But even if those will help us on our way, it is worrying to note the level from which we have started.

My noble friend Lord Bridges of Headley explained to us earlier the task that the Government were faced with in drawing up the Bill. Seen from that Westminster perspective, one can see how it was understood that these measures would give logical, incremental steps to overcoming the problems that leaving the EU will present. But the proposed powers provoke questions as well as answers. From the Scottish perspective—as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness, was alerting the Government—it seems, for a start, that it does not fully fit in with the procedure for implementing legislation that the Scottish Parliament works under. Many noble Lords have centred their disquiet on the extensive Henry VIII powers that are presently contained in the Bill. But nothing has been said here today that matches the panic that the presence of these powers has triggered in the Scottish Government, with dreams of what they might be used for if there were a hostile Administration in Westminster. I know that that is not the plan at the moment, but from their perspective it is something that rears its head.

The briefing document on the Bill, issued by our own Library, said that the Government had issued to the devolved Administrations a list of the various measures that will have to be returned from the EU as we leave. The Library has very kindly provided me with a copy; the list contains 111 measures. This is only to underline the probable emphasis that will affect my second area of concern, which lies in agriculture, fisheries and rural life. Of these 111 measures, 43 will have a direct involvement in these areas. It is also the area covered in the various devolved Acts. Have the Government made it clear to the devolved Administrations how many of these measures they are already prepared to agree to hand over; and if not, why not? This is particularly true of the area which I have so recently been involved in, which is sheep. I think it is generally accepted that this is the section of agriculture that stands to lose the most from any departure from our present arrangements. I am sure many noble Lords are aware that this industry is reliant on Europe for setting present-day market prices. It is also reliant on exports for 35% to 40% of production. No deal could imply tariffs of up to 50% or £2 per kilo at the European border.

As a further illustration of the problems of the Irish border, which were emphasised by my noble friend Lord Patten a few minutes ago, our worries in this area are eclipsed by those of our farmers in Northern Ireland, who export an even bigger percentage of livestock and who might find themselves with a border with the Republic that would also affect not just exports but the very considerable trade there presently is in both directions at all times of the year across that border.

I look forward to seeing how much improvement we can make to this legislation in the coming weeks.

EU: Scottish Independence

Duke of Montrose Excerpts

Wednesday 28th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, there is not an orderly queue for EU membership. There is a list of criteria for EU membership which applicant countries have to fulfil. Turkey applied during the 1980s, rather ahead of some of those countries that have since joined. Of course, Scotland would have to meet a whole range of criteria and there would be, no doubt, some careful and detailed negotiations. Whether or not Scotland would be allowed—as the noble Lord, Lord Steel, has already posed—to opt out of Schengen or to opt out of the euro and keep the pound is something we would have to consider.

[The Duke of Montrose]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, if Scotland is separated from the United Kingdom, the contribution the UK makes to Europe will be reduced and that any rebate that is payable to the UK at the moment would also be reduced?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

That is a question that Her Majesty’s Government have not entirely considered yet, since we have every confidence that when it comes to a referendum the people of Scotland will vote to stay in the United Kingdom. The question of the rebate and of the United Kingdom’s financial contribution is, as Members may have noted, itself under negotiation.