Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Diana Johnson and Andrew Selous

Thursday 20th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Selous]

I very much understand my hon. Friend’s concern on this issue, which is shared by many others. As I am sure he knows, each province of the Anglican communion is autonomous. In 2016, however, the primates in the Anglican communion reaffirmed the rejection of criminal sanctions against same sex-attracted people and committed to respecting the dignity and value of every person. It is hard to see how the position taken by the Church of Uganda aligns with the 2016 agreement.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

7. If the Church of England will make an assessment of the potential merits of refusing to ordain clergy who do not personally recognise the ordination of women as diocesan bishops.

[Andrew Selous]

The Church of England is fully committed to all orders of ministry being open equally to all without reference to gender. The Church is also committed to ensuring that those who cannot in good conscience receive the ministry of women priests or bishops are able to flourish; the five guiding principles of the House of Bishops are the basis for this mutual flourishing and all candidates for ordination have to assent to them.

[Dame Diana Johnson]

It is now 29 years since we had the first woman priest and nine years since the first female bishop was appointed in our established Church of England. It therefore seems to me that there have been many years to adapt to treating women as equals in the sight of God. Given that, is it really appropriate for the Church of England to continue appointing clergy, as happened recently in Blackburn, who have not accepted and who will never personally accept the ordination of women?

[Andrew Selous]

I can tell the right hon. Lady that a new body was established last year to review how the five guiding principles are being understood, implemented and received in the Church and that it has a balanced membership of bishops, clergy and laity who reflect all views on these matters.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Diana Johnson and Andrew Selous

Thursday 27th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Selous]

I know that, like me, my hon. Friend is deeply conscious that this is Holocaust Memorial Day. I can tell her that there are many strong relationships enabling the church to support Christians and churches in Jerusalem, the land where Jesus walked. Last year, the diocese of Southwark signed a covenant agreement with the diocese of Jerusalem, opening new opportunities for pilgrimage, prayer and mutual support. The Bishop of Southwark goes to Jerusalem often and is in regular contact with our consul general and with Ministers in London about what can be done to ensure the peace of Jerusalem so that all faiths can flourish in the Holy Land.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

7. For what reason the Church of England has not made provision to enable a church blessing of gay and lesbian relationships.

[Andrew Selous]

The Church of England’s doctrine defines marriage as between one man and one woman, and changing doctrine is a serious matter that involves humbly seeking to discern the mind of God. The Church of England is engaging intensively with questions of identity, sexuality, relationships and marriage in ways that have not been done before. That process of learning, listening and discernment among clergy and congregations is enabling a deep engagement with difference and diversity as part of the Church’s discernment of a way forward.

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I was interested to hear what the hon. Member said about supporting families and households, because in Wales and Scotland, there are blessings for lesbian and gay marriages, which shows the Churches’ acceptance and understanding of all households and families. It would be good for the Church of England to introduce a Measure on this issue sooner rather than later, as we know that it often moves at a glacial pace, as it did on ordaining women and having women bishops. This would be a welcome change for the Church to make.

[Andrew Selous]

I thank the right hon. Lady for the question. What she suggests may be welcome, but the Church needs to discern what it believes the true teachings of the gospels to be. In order to determine where God is leading us, we are engaged in one of the most extensive exercises in consultation, learning and prayer carried out by the Church in recent decades. Both the destination and how we get there are important.