Article 50

Debate between David Davis and Lord Herbert of South Downs

Monday 7th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

The right hon. Lady is absolutely right. It is often said that if it had been a leave party versus a remain party, the majority would have been bigger than that of the Blair Government in 1997. We would do well to pay attention to that.

[Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

Since we clearly must respect the decision of the British people, and since it is also clear that the majority of Members of this House, including me, would vote to trigger article 50, surely the real question is the substantive one about what kind of Brexit will be pursued. Why is it that the former Government were able to set out a White Paper on their objectives ahead of the Lisbon treaty negotiations, but that this Government are saying that they will not set out a similar document in respect of these much more important negotiations?

[Mr Davis]

I guess I was the part-author of the White Paper ahead of the Amsterdam treaty, and our aims were put only in very broad terms. In those terms, we already have our broad aims. They are very plain: control of laws, control of borders, maintenance of our security and the maximum possible access to free markets, both in Europe and elsewhere. Those are the broad aims. In terms of detail, I have just been asked about the customs union. As I have said, when we get to the point of being sure of where we are going on that—[Interruption.] I am glad that Labour Members are all very sure about that, since they do not seem to have looked at any of the numbers at all. The national interest requires that we make sure what the outcome is before we attempt to achieve it. That is a very small negotiating lesson.

I do not think that I want to commit at this point, but let me say this. I have said over and over again in this process that we will be as open as possible, consistent with maintaining our negotiating stance. I mean that. I have stood up for that principle through decades in this Parliament, and I will not stop standing up for it just because I am standing here.

Parliamentary Scrutiny of Leaving the EU

Debate between David Davis and Lord Herbert of South Downs

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

I will give way in a moment.

I want to address the final part of the motion about this House being able properly to scrutinise Government plans for leaving the EU before article 50 is invoked. Article 50 sets out the process by which we leave the EU, which has been decided by the British people. Invoking it is a job for the Government. Leaving the EU is what the British people voted for on 23 June, and article 50 is how we do it.

[Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

I welcome the terms of the Government amendment, which seems entirely sensible. Does my right hon. Friend therefore agree, and is my understanding right, that he now accepts that those of us raising concerns about the level of debate necessary ahead of the triggering of article 50 are by no means seeking to frustrate the will of the people—we recognise the instruction from the British people that we should leave the European Union—but seeking a full understanding of the Government’s broad negotiating aims?

[Mr Davis]

I am glad to hear my right hon. Friend say that. In truth, scrutiny of our strategic aims is what debates such as this are about, as is parliamentary engagement of the kind I have mentioned—debating the issues that will inform our negotiating position, and holding the Government to account. However, such scrutiny has to be at the strategic level; it cannot be at the tactical level or enter into the detailed negotiation.

Exiting the European Union

Debate between David Davis and Lord Herbert of South Downs

Monday 5th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Davis]

Very much so. One group I met in Northern Ireland was the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland’s new business advisory group, which talked about exactly that. Sadly, we were there on the day of the Caterpillar announcement, which was bad news—it was nothing to do with Brexit but with a problem with markets in the far east. We will have that clearly front and centre.

[Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his resurrection. He spoke about the value of free trade with the European Union when we leave it. That trade consists of trade in both goods and services. The barriers to it are tariff barriers, which have been discussed extensively, and non-tariff barriers, which have received rather less attention. What reassurance can he give to the many businesses in this country in the services sector, which is particularly important to us and is growing—trade with the European Union in the sector is important—that the removal of non-tariff barriers, which is in their interests, will continue?

[Mr Davis]

My right hon. Friend is the author of the resurrection line I cited earlier, and I would say a couple of things to him. I am tempted to use Ghandi’s comment about western civilisation. The single market in services would be a good idea, but it is somewhat patchy to say the least, and one major part of the big exercise we are doing is trying to establish exactly what the non-tariff barriers are and where they can and cannot be resolved. I take his point entirely on board. Services is the one area where we have a surplus with Europe, and we want to keep it.