Health Service Commissioner for England (Complaint Handling) Bill

Debate between David Davis and David Nuttall

Friday 27th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nuttall]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that clarification. He suggests that the amendment is purely about transparency, which means it has more merit than I had accorded it.

[Mr David Davis]

Following that point from my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope), I think there is a risk that the amendment would transform the role of the Public Administration Committee, which currently provides oversight and acts as the guardian of ombudsmen, turning it into a champion for more money. I think that would be quite dangerous. I do not want to see the Committee go from being a regulator, comptroller and holder-to-account to a champion for more money.

[Mr Nuttall]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that point, which I suspect adds weight to my opposition to amendment 5. I appreciate what my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch has said about transparency, but I suspect that in press releases and in evidence given before the Committee the ombudsman would be able to do that anyway. When questioned about the reasons for delays, they would feel that they could easily say whether it was down to resources, either in public utterances to the media or more formally in evidence to the Committee.

[Mr Davis]

I started off being flattered by the suggestion from my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) that I had been in some way seduced into mitigating the Bill, but I think that I am far beyond the point at which seduction, either metaphorical or real, is an option. Perhaps that is why, when it comes to new clause 3, which I think is the most substantive amendment in the group, I am not as much of an expert as the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) and my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) appear to be on the subject of corsets. As I understand it, corsets constrict things at one point and let them out at another. The risk in new clause 3 is that it would put such constraints on the ombudsman that problems would be created elsewhere.

There have been two problems with the operation of the ombudsman over the past few years: not meeting timetables and making mistakes. On a number of occasions the ombudsman has got things wrong, which has made things even more acutely painful for the people seeking help and support, because the ombudsman has had to go back and correct mistakes. Indeed, that happened on a number of occasions in the very case that is at the centre of this piece of legislation. Were we to go down this route, we might create a series of problems arising from the ombudsman making erroneous recommendations and proposals, which would of course lead to the issues being multiplied down the generations, rather than dealt with straightaway.

We must also remember that some of the issues that the ombudsman deals with not only require information from other Departments and other parts of Government, but sometimes involve contested arguments and may have legal liability associated with them, so we should not forget that there is a natural justice aspect to this. Finally, these issues are very often on the edge of science. The sepsis problem was one such issue, for which the medical profession is still seeking new solutions. We should be wary of going so far on this that we cause another set of problems. That is why I think the Bill as printed strikes the right balance.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Nuttall]

There is a haulage contractor in my part of the world who bears the name James Nuttall. I am sure that he will be flattered that his name has been mentioned.

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) on piloting the Bill through to Third Reading. Although he came 19th in the ballot, had the draw been done in the traditional way, he would have come second and piloted the European Union (Referendum) Bill, which would have been a slightly weightier task.

[Mr David Davis]

Weightier and more futile!

[Mr Nuttall]

Yes, I am afraid so. That Bill is not going to reach the statute book.

I hope that this Bill does reach the statute book. It is a short Bill. As the promoter said, it is simple and straightforward. It aims to set a clear target for the ombudsman to operate within. When the target cannot be met, it requires that reasons be given.

As was mentioned at the outset this morning, this is the first time the Bill has been debated on the Floor of the House. The exploration of the matters that were raised on Report was therefore useful, because it teased out matters that could usefully be considered in the forthcoming review and examination of the ombudsman’s procedures. I am sure that those who conduct the review will read this debate and reflect on those matters.

I wish the Bill well this morning. I am sure that it will receive a Third Reading. I also wish it a speedy passage through the other place in the days that remain before the Dissolution of this Parliament.