Children’s Care Homes: Reform

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Monday 20th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

To be fair, we need to be careful not to generalise too much. We have had some egregious examples, of which the most notable recently was the Hesley Group, with terrible abuses happening in children’s homes. We also have some very high-quality providers which are focused on many things, including the transition to which the noble Lord refers.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

Local authority budgets are absolutely squeezed; profiteering is eye-watering; there are reports of horrendous abuse; and vulnerable children are being sent half way across the UK. What will the Government do to end the profiteering and ensure that children in care receive the best the system can offer?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I have already talked about the change to the financial oversight that we want to bring in the children’s social care market. The noble Baroness will also be aware that we are introducing a regional model for providing homes for children and we are working with partners both within the sector and in health and justice to co-design this. We will be piloting two regional care co-operatives, which we hope will rebalance that power dynamic between the providers and the local authorities.

Schools: Special Educational Needs

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Obviously, the ESC report to which the right reverend Prelate refers is very recent, so the department is considering very seriously the recommendations from the committee. However, I absolutely recognise that behind the right reverend Prelate’s question is a concern about the quality of alternative provision; but, used well, it can provide an opportunity for early intervention and to return children to mainstream education.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

Can the Minister tell the House what subsequent measures the DfE will put in place following reports from Ofsted and the Care Quality Commission, and from Hertfordshire County Council this week, identifying widespread and systemic failings in SEN provision?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Obviously, we take those reports extremely seriously, and that is the value of having an independent inspectorate. I cannot comment on the specific Hertfordshire case, but we work with the local authority or the trust in question to ensure that those issues are addressed.

Schools: Catering Facilities and RAAC

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

I appreciate that the Minister may need to give a written response to this, but how many children are currently being schooled online in temporary or non-classroom settings because of RAAC? Notwithstanding the Minister’s earlier response, how long do the Government estimate it will take to completely investigate all schools?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

It is not so much that I cannot give an answer now or in writing, but rather that the arrangements schools have put in place change frequently, as the noble Baroness will recognise. For example, a school might be delivering classes in a leisure centre this week but will be back in its buildings next week. Our overarching efforts are to get children back to normal education as quickly as possible.

Cultural Education Plan

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord speaks with great authority on this. I absolutely agree with him that art and culture, as well as other extracurricular activities such as sport and other opportunities, are critical for young people at risk of offending or in prison.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, the number of creative studies teachers is on the decline in England: between 2011 and 2022, there was a 20% drop in drama teachers, 15% in music and 11% in art. The Government are still missing targets for recruitment to combat this decline. The impact is that fewer students are studying creative subjects, limiting children’s creativity and risking future talent pipelines for our creative industries. Notwithstanding the answer the noble Baroness gave to my question yesterday, what are the Government doing now to improve the picture for creative education in schools?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Well, unfortunately, my recognition of the noble Baroness’s figures has not changed since yesterday. My understanding is that, since 2014-15, the number of qualified music teachers has risen from around 89% to an average of about 95% in the last couple of years. Similarly, for art and design, 96.5% of lessons are taught by teachers with post-A-level qualifications. However, since yesterday I can share with the House that there will be a new survey on extracurricular music uptake, which will be published later this year, which shows much higher levels of participation in June 2023 in relation to singing and instrument lessons, access to live music performances and participation by children in live music performances. So the Government are not talking about it—the Government are delivering.

Schools: Music, Art, Craft and Dance

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Monday 16th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

To put the noble Baroness’s concerns in perspective, I point out that if one takes into account both GCSEs and technical awards, which I know she values, just over half of students—52%—take either a GCSE or technical award. We are funding the music hubs with £79 million per annum for delivery but there is an additional £25 million fund for the purchase of musical instruments. In my Answer I gave an indication of the bursaries we will be providing to encourage recruitment.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, as a former drama teacher and current chair of trustees of the Council for Dance, Drama and Musical Theatre, I know how important studying the arts is to children’s lives. When such access is limited in schools, it is the poorer students who are denied the benefits. Surely we all want young people to carry a love of learning that sets them up to achieve and thrive, and the arts are central to this. Can the Minister give an update on the progress of the cultural education panel? When can we expect its report?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government would not disagree with anything the noble Baroness said on the importance of arts and other wider curriculum subjects. She will be aware that we published our new music education plan in June 2022. We will be publishing the cultural education plan in the coming months.

Children’s Social Care Implementation Strategy (Public Services Committee Report)

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Wednesday 20th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare that I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association, as noted in the register. I thank my noble friend Lady Morris of Yardley and all members of the Public Services Committee for this excellent, direct and wide-ranging report on such a vital area of our social services provision. It is indeed always worth listening to our young people.

The Government’s strategy, published in February 2023, followed an independent review of children’s social care, which recommended wide-ranging reforms based on principles such as family help providing the right support at the right time; unlocking the potential of family networks; and creating a system that learns, improves and makes better use of evidence and data. To where we are currently, we have seen the erosion of children’s services for more than a decade, while poverty and inequality have increased—points strongly made by my noble friend Lady Armstrong of Hill Top. It is acute in the north-east and severe elsewhere. Preventive services have been stripped back, leaving the need for costly crisis interventions soaring. The independent review on social care described a system that is

“skewed to crisis intervention, with outcomes for children that continue to be unacceptably poor and costs that continue to rise”,

and called for a “radical reset”. So what will this Government do to address the huge deficit in children’s social care?

The strategy contains 12 local areas which will receive £45 million of additional investment for a new pathfinder role to test models of family help. The Government also committed to providing new multiagency child protection standards in 2023, amending guidance to local authorities, police and health partners to give greater clarity on their responsibilities. There will be trials of kinship care support packages. Other measures include £27 million in funding for foster carers. This is all just a sticking plaster.

According to the review, the strategy lacks “scale, ambition and pace” and will impact

“only a few areas, and then only as a pilot programme”.

There is no guarantee of long-term reform, which is badly needed. Some of the proposed pilot programmes already have strong evidence behind them, so they would be ready to be rolled out nationwide. The committee felt that, although the strategy had aspects to recommend it, it was being rolled out slowly and would therefore leave many children behind. Improvements for residential care were almost entirely absent from the strategy, and my noble friend Lord Bach has made the strongest of arguments for urgent review of this sector.

We in the Labour Party believe that the strategy represents a piecemeal approach to long-standing and entrenched issues in children’s social care. It does not provide the serious strategy needed to fix the crisis in the workforce, to help kinship carers and to deliver on the greater protections that vulnerable children and families desperately need. As my noble friend Lady Morris quoted, this is what Josh MacAlister called a “missed opportunity”.

The Local Government Association analysis of the strategy prior to high levels of inflation indicated an existing shortfall of £1.6 billion per year simply to maintain current service levels. The independent care review recommended an additional investment of at least £2.6 billion over four years, prior to the impact of inflation. The LGA further suggested that multiple factors would be key to the success of regional care co-operatives, including resourcing, IT systems, and clarity on structure and roles held between councils and providers. The LGA also argued that the strategy

“could have gone much further”

in relation to the provision of mental health services for children in care and care leavers.

Although the Government opened a consultation into the use of agency social workers, there is no plan to end the domination of for-profit children’s home places, which account for 78% of places in England. Some of these providers have been the subject of inquiries into abuse in children’s residential care. I remember well when leader of Newport City Council the eye-watering sums that private providers demanded for places in their establishments for our children and young people—goodness knows how much those sums have increased in the past few years. It is not about the money but about the quality of provision for children and young people, which always had to be the main criteria despite the cost.

The 20 largest independent sector children’s social care providers had an income of £1.7 billion in 2021, an 8.3% increase on the year before. In October last year, a report by the Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel identified a “culture of abuse”, including violence and sexual harm, in three residential schools run by one of the largest private providers. Given that the taxpayer is paying huge amounts for children to be given at times appalling care, why on earth is this strategy not tackling the role of private providers in children’s care?

We recently discussed the review of the Children and Families Act 2014. There are issues left unaddressed by that Act, such as kinship care, that have been given some consideration in this strategy. However, one aspect of the Children and Families Act that struck me was the lack of ongoing data collection and impact evaluation. As the implementation of this strategy progresses, what will the Government do to ensure that it is regularly analysed and evaluated? Do the Government really believe that the strategy will make the difference needed to improve the 43% of children’s services departments rated “inadequate” or “requiring improvement”?

According to the Association of Directors of Children’s Services, across regions in England there are varying degrees of interest in taking up a RCC pathfinder opportunity—but, at present, no region seems to be interested in adopting the approach outlined by the DfE. The ADCS recently published a position paper coming after the collapse of a joint procurement frame- work for children’s residential care involving seven local authorities across the north-east of England. It raised concerns over whether government plans to move to regional commissioning of children’s social care services should indeed be re-evaluated. While ADCS members acknowledge that regional collaboration could offer some opportunities, including regional sufficiency audits, workforce gap analysis, and the opportunity for joint commissioning in areas of greatest need, a number of concerns about the model described by the DfE remain for the association; thus, the position paper offers strong solutions for the Government.

In conclusion, as the final sentence in the report, which we all hope will be taken up by the Government and acted on, notes,

“we need to ensure that all children and families engaged in the care system see some immediate benefit and can be sure that significant change will follow”.

A Failure of Implementation (Children and Families Act 2014 Committee Report)

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Wednesday 6th September 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-president of the LGA, as noted in the register. We are here today as a result of the House of Lords Children and Families Act 2014 Committee, as has been mentioned throughout the debate, and the launching of its post-legislative scrutiny inquiry on 9 March 2022. The introduction of the Act in 2014 was to make those substantial and wide-ranging changes that all Peers have noted in the debate today. It was about reforming services for vulnerable children, by giving them greater protection, paying special attention to those with additional needs, and also helping children, parents and the family as a whole.

Many of the recommendations of the 2010 family justice review were implemented by the CFA and were designed to improve child welfare and make court processes more effective and, crucially, quicker than they were before. The importance of the legal framework was cogently outlined by my noble friend Lord Bach. It further extended the rights to a personal budget for the support of children, young people and families. Local authorities—I have been a corporate parent and I know how important that is—have to involve families and children in discussions and decisions relating to their care and education. It was about providing impartial advice, support and mediation.

In the Act, the Children’s Commissioner’s role was increased from simply representing the views and interests of children to focusing on,

“promoting and protecting the rights of children”.

It was so reassuring to see Dame Rachel de Souza, the current commissioner for England, speak out so persuasively and compellingly in the media in recent days when she commented on the current crisis affecting our children and young people at the start of the new academic year and the discovery about school buildings. She said,

“After years of disruption for children and young people, what they need most is stability and getting back to normal … Everything must now be done to ensure the impact on children’s learning is minimised. And it is particularly important that everyone working with children prioritises those who are vulnerable and those with additional needs”.


Those are very clear words.

The report under discussion today, published on 6 December 2022, contained recommendations across several policy areas. Strikingly, the committee said that the CFA

“has ultimately failed in meaningfully improving the lives of children and young people”.

It attributed this failure to several things, including insufficient data collection, implementation and, as many noble Lords mentioned, scrutiny of the Act. For example, on adoption, there was a lack of support and inconsistent approaches for the early permanence placements created by the Act, and a lack of action on issues with ethnic minority adoptions. The committee recommended expanding the current narrow scope and complex application process.

The CFA does not contain any provisions on kinship care, despite it being the most stable option for children in care. I do not know what we would have done without grandparents, aunties and uncles when we looked to place children in Newport. The lack of provision for kinship care has been raised again in recent debates on the Government’s new children’s social care strategy.

There is a lack of data on the success of the introduction of parental involvement presumption in the CFA. In 2020, the Government promised a review on its success, but the findings are yet to be published.

On the introduction of rights to shared parental leave and pay, in 2018 the House of Commons Women and Equalities Committee proposed that shared parental leave should be replaced with a right to 12 weeks’ parental leave. The CFA committee said that the Government should publish an assessment of implementing such a policy. Labour has committed to urgently review the shared parental leave system and extend statutory maternity and paternity leave as part of its new deal for working people. The committee further recommended that self-employed partners should be given the right to statutory shared parental pay like directly employed partners, something I believe the Government do not currently support.

The committee further noted that kinship carers have no legal right to paid time off. However, the Government have acknowledged the need to explore ways of better supporting kinship carers. This is to be welcomed.

Many Peers have mentioned that children’s mental health was not directly covered in the Act, but the committee rightly described it as a crisis and a threat to the Act’s overall success. Labour has committed to ensuring that there are mental health professionals in every school and mental health hubs in every community, and will guarantee mental health treatment within a month for all who need it. The committee further recommended that the Government continue to heed the advice of the Children’s Commissioner and consider how they can better represent the voice of children at senior levels of Government—a most wise recommendation.

Last year, the Government set out plans to reform children’s social care. Earlier this year, they undertook a consultation on reforms to children’s social care, which closed in May but has yet to be published. The strategy has been broadly welcomed, but has been accused of taking a piecemeal approach rather than a wholesale reform of what is a broken system.

I have outlined what was hoped for in 2014 when the Act came into force, and I note the wholesale criticisms by the committee of the Act’s implementation. I shall conclude, as some of my points have already been covered and I am a firm believer in not repeating what has already been said, but I have a number of questions to put to the Minister. I do not expect a full reply to every question, but I would be most grateful if she would address the clear challenges that I pose and reply in writing.

The Government have said they will respond to the consultation on the children’s social care strategy this month. Can the Minister confirm whether this is still the plan? Do the Government believe that the announcements made so far on the new strategy will lead to the current dire situation improving? Some 43% of children’s service departments are rated as inadequate.

As almost all Peers have already mentioned, many of the issues with the Act outlined in the report come from a lack of post-legislative scrutiny, impact assessments or data collection, leaving the Government flying blind. How will they ensure that the same mistakes are not made when implementing the new strategy?

It is clear from the report and the reception surrounding the announcement of the new government strategy that kinship care has been greatly neglected. Do the Government believe that providing £50 for training and support for every child in kinship care will make a difference? The Government have said that a kinship care strategy will be published by the end of 2023. Is this still the case? Finally, are the children’s social care national frameworks still on course to be published by the end of this year?

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler of Enfield, for calling this debate, and all members of the committee who have spoken today. We now need urgent action from the Government to ensure that what was a positive piece of legislation is no longer allowed to drift from pillar to post, trying to do what it set out to do: to improve the lives of our children and young people. There can be no more important challenge.

Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 5th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

Amendment 1 proposes the widely accepted requirement that the learning hours associated with credit must be consistent with sector-wide standards. It would be beneficial to have 10 hours written in the Bill in order to cement its definition, because that would mean that no new definition could be introduced or imposed at a later date for the purposes of setting fee limits.

We continue to express concern that the lack of detail in the Bill could mean that in the future the policy could significantly change from the intentions of the current Government, and there is little constraint against decisions made by the Secretary of State—often a “here today, gone tomorrow” Minister—but I recognise that on Report we are unlikely to be able to change the powers of the Secretary of State.

Amendment 2 proposes the insertion of a new clause to review the provisions in the Act. Businesses are reporting having difficulty recruiting employees with the relevant skills. In August 2022, the Federation of Small Businesses found that 80% of small firms faced difficulties recruiting applicants with suitable skills in the previous 12 months. The Recruitment and Employment Confederation estimates that if labour shortages are not addressed, the UK economy will be £39 billion worse off each year from 2024.

Despite the rising population, many employers are facing skills gaps. Some 28,300 London employers report that not all their employees have the right skills for the job. Almost a quarter—23%—of all vacancies in London are due to a lack of applicants with the right skills, while almost half of firms—42%—are not confident that they will be able to recruit people with the higher-level skills their organisation needs over the next five years. It is possible that many of the migrants waiting to be processed will have the skills that the country urgently needs, so when will the Home Office speed up the processing so that we can see if that is the case?

We are not convinced that the introduction of the lifelong loan entitlement will help to plug the gaps. The Liberal Democrats have called for grants, rather than loans, to encourage adult reskilling, concerned that many adults will be reluctant to take on debt for their further training. Will the LLE allow people to upskill effectively? Will they want to take out loans to upskill? It will be important for the Government to review the impact of the provisions of the Bill to assess whether these measures alleviate the skills shortages.

I am not my party’s expert on sharia finance, but I am aware of the Islamic belief that benefiting from lending money by charging interest or repaying more than the initial amount borrowed—riba—is forbidden. The investments made by loan companies, which might be in industries such as gambling or alcohol, are also considered problematic. For these reasons, Muslim students are deterred from taking out student loans from the Student Loans Company to cover the tuition fees and living costs associated with higher education. Research has shown this can act as a barrier to higher education for Muslims or cause financial hardship for those who do choose to study at university.

The UK Government first proposed a student finance product consistent with Muslim beliefs about interest-bearing loans in 2013. The Higher Education Research Act 2017 allows the Government to introduce such a product, but it has yet to do so. The issue has been raised in Parliament a number of times, with the delay described as shameful by my noble friend Lord Sharkey, who is indeed an expert on sharia finance.

In March 2023, in their response to the consultation on the lifelong loan entitlement, the Government said that a sharia-compliant alternative student finance product would not be available as part of the launch of the LLE in England in 2025. In July 2023, the Government said that they remain committed to delivering alternative student finance as soon as possible after 2025. Can the Minister say why the Government have yet to do this? It would be useful to understand their thinking behind the delays and whether they could explain how the introduction of the LLE would impact those who require sharia-compliant loans.

The other part of the amendment calls for a review before the end of 2026, and preferably earlier. I have also added my name to Amendment 4, which Labour will introduce. I look forward to the Minister’s response, and I beg to move.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 4, which would require the Secretary of State to publish a review of the lifelong loan entitlement before bringing in further regulations on fee limits. I welcome the Minister's comments in Committee, and I fully understand her feedback about what information will accompany further regulations as these changes are rolled out.

We have brought this amendment back to further raise the point about ensuring that students, the sector and Parliament are given clear information on the details of the LLE as soon as possible. Throughout the passage of this Bill, we have raised concerns, often after input from those in the higher education sector, that so little about the LLE in terms of course provision, maintenance, credits, transfers, and further rollout of modular study at other levels is confirmed in any meaningful detail.

I am none the less grateful that, following Committee, the Minister outlined further details of the LLE that relate to this Bill in a letter. However, as we know, this huge shift in higher education policy goes further than fee limits. We all want this change to work, but for that to happen the sector will need much more clarity than has been provided through this very narrow Bill.

The accounting officer assessment for the LLE states:

“The main feasibility risk of LLE is meeting the 2025 delivery timescale”.


Is the Minister still confident that the department will be able to deliver on time, particularly in the light of current pressures arising from the major emergency that the department is currently dealing with in school buildings across the UK?

My next question follows on naturally: what is in place if this timescale turns out to be unworkable? There are a great many sector stakeholders—as well as the students themselves, of course—who will need clearly communicated timelines. Amendment 1 from the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, puts in the Bill the number of hours that constitute a credit. We understand why she tabled that amendment: it is important that the sector is given clarity and control over the definition of working hours and that it is consistent with the QAA’s higher education credit framework. As she noted, her concern is about the lack of detail. This is one of many areas in which the higher and further education sectors still have questions about how a credit will be defined.

The concept of a credit in education terms will also be completely alien to the general public, and there is a risk that employers simply do not understand its value. The Government need to think about how this can be communicated. We do not believe that putting a number in the Bill at this point would be beneficial. However, we would like a commitment from the Government that they will not seek to amend the value of a credit and will be led by the sector’s understanding of it.

On Amendment 2, I am glad that the Minister has outlined the Government’s plans to ensure sharia-compliant loans in writing; we look forward to receiving further engagement on this issue as the LLE progresses. But, as the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, pointed out, there is a distinct problem with skills gaps—a lack of applicants with the right skills. The economy cannot move forward appropriately with skills shortages.

[Lord Willetts (Con)]

My Lords, the amendments reflect widespread cross-party support for the Bill and its principles; they are not intended to destroy the Bill in any way. I see the case for the Bill, which of course I warmly welcome, as opening up new possibilities. We genuinely do not know the circumstances in which people may take them up and we do not know whether debt aversion is much more of an issue among mature learners than among young people aged 18 or 19; we will find out only if we give this a try. Similarly, we do not know how much suppressed demand there is for level 4 or level 5 qualifications because of the way in which loans are currently structured; we will find out only if we give this a try. So this is definitely worth going forward with.

I have three brief comments on the amendments. First, one of the temptations we have in this House— I have occasionally succumbed to it myself—is to try to determine the details of policy through primary legislation. That is one of the risks in Amendment 1, with its specification of the definition of “one credit”. Of course, it is an important and interesting area but, as we are embarking on a journey with a new and more flexible system, trying to put that into primary legislation would inhibit necessary policy flexibility—a point that I think the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, referred to.

Secondly, I agree with the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, on sharia-compliant loans. We have been at this for 10 years now, and it really is time that a scheme such as this were available and in force. There were initially some tricky problems, but I think that the long work that the department has done over the years has resolved them. My understanding is that the technical and theological issues have been addressed. I know that the Minister herself is keen to get on with this, so anything that she can say to the House about her commitment to that timescale would be very welcome.

Finally, on Amendment 4, I am proud to say that I am acting as the spokesman for the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf. She very much regrets that she cannot be with us; she briefly appeared, but I think she had to catch a plane to Lithuania. In many ways, she is the intellectual origins of the Bill. I know that her spirit is that she wants to get on with it. Her concern about this amendment—which I completely understand and support—is that requiring another review before we can get on with things will slow down the pace still further. I think that the mood across this House is that we want to get on with it; we do not want reasons for further delay. I fear that Amendment 4 would constitute another obstacle to this potentially important and significant innovation in policy, which I warmly support.

Prison: Support for Dependent Children

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The work with the pre-sentence reports is being rolled out more widely. Your Lordships will agree that the fact that a woman before them is a mother feels like quite a basic thing that the courts should take into consideration, but that is not where we have stopped. We are looking at working more with women’s centres that can offer support, including residential women’s centres, and at the conditions in which women and babies can benefit from mother and baby units.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, we already heard that around 17,000 children’s mothers are sent to prison every year. How do we know the impact of separating mothers and children when the Government collect no clear data on pregnant women and mothers in the criminal justice system?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As the noble Baroness understands very well, on one level we know the impact of separation, which is a very traumatic event, particularly for the child. We also know that separation is likely to be associated with a number of other very serious traumas for a child, including maternal mental health issues and substance misuse. We look at addressing those in the round, which is why we are working on a fundamental reform of children’s social care, to make sure that these children get the support they deserve.

Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill

Baroness Wilcox of Newport Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I do not think I have to add much to what the noble Lord, Lord Watson, said as he is a man who never leaves you in any doubt that he has done his research. However, distance learning should be part of the network and structure of how you acquire qualifications and carry on doing so, updating them as you go through your working life. There cannot be much doubt that it is a good idea, so making sure that alternative forms of study, including distance learning, are covered in the Bill is—well, blindingly obvious comes to mind. We need to have this structure to make sure we are reaching the people we need to get at to improve their lives and, indeed, GDP—that wonderful thing—and productivity. You name it, training is a key component. Making sure it is more easily accessible in a way that is convenient to people, even if it messes up the paperwork a little, has got to be an advantage. I hope that the Minister will say “Yes, we are going to deal with this in another way”, but unless we have something that gives us some assurance here, the Government are missing an obvious trick. I hope that I and the noble Lord, Lord Watson, will go away suitably chastised that of course the Government are going to do this; they just have not told us how yet.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as noted in the register. As my noble friend Lady Twycross has already stated, the Labour Party supports the financial funding for students as evidenced in this legislation. However, as we have already seen in this debate, we have grounds for exploring further clarity and to probe the details so that we can put the best possible version on the statute book. That is what is behind these amendments from my noble friend Lord Watson and other noble Lords.

It is essential that the decline in higher education is reversed. It requires a funding and regulatory system that supports and encourages lifelong learning. The LLE could be transformative in revitalising flexible higher education and reversing the sharp decline in adult learners. It could also incentivise alternative, flexible pathways that support people to access learning throughout life. However, its detailed design will be key in determining how it will work in practice.

My noble friend Lord Watson’s amendment recognises that the regulations do not currently provide for credits to be differentiated according to whether the learning time is in person or distance learning, and Amendment 6 highlights that different per credit limits may not be prescribed according solely to whether the learning time is spent on in-person learning or distance learning. Flexible and distance learning is the key to lifelong learning and to making courses accessible to people who may not otherwise be able to take them.

As my noble friend Lord Watson has already noted, the current progressive system of student finance we have in Wales means that Welsh undergraduate students have on average less to repay than their English peers, as we continue to provide non-repayable grants and students receive a guaranteed level of maintenance support. In England, currently, part-time students studying face-to-face are entitled to receive maintenance support, but the vast majority of part-time distance learning students are not entitled to maintenance support.

The introduction of the LLE could be a real opportunity to make this important change. It would bring greater access and flexibility to lifelong learning. It is a worthwhile goal that would make all the difference. Maintenance support is crucial to learners from disadvantaged backgrounds to prevent further hurdles to them taking up study. Many adults will otherwise be unable to take up these opportunities. These people would be prevented from transforming their life chances and being part of the skilled workforce that employers, the economy and the GDP need. Many people have existing debts, financial commitments or caring needs. If lifelong learning is to succeed, the system must recognise these differences. Furthermore, an extension to distance learning students would help mitigate the current cost of living pressures facing them, which are beginning to impact on mature students, discouraging them from entering study and threatening continuation rates. This would help to widen participation and support by allowing students to take unpaid study leave or to reduce their hours of work to focus on studying.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, this is a fairly straightforward issue. It is about making sure that people are adequately informed about the changes to the way courses are funded. There are two primary targets. One is the institutions themselves; the other is pupils and those providing educational support to get them ready. My primary aim is the school structure, which is dominated by A-levels. Let us face it: we are a group that is probably rather dominated by those who decided that level 6—degree-level traditional learning—was for us. We aspired to it. We all know that what we did was right so expecting teachers to do something other than that will require intervention and periodic reminders.

Let us face it: the figures I have in front of me show that, from 2008-09 to 2019-20, there was a 72% drop in people taking non-degree level courses. In that age group, it has become very unfashionable. We have a skills gap that is decades old. It used to be called technician level but it is where we have always had a skills gap. We know how to push people into degrees but there are dozens of stories—I have been provided with many from the creative industries—about people effectively having to retrain at a lower level of skill on an ad hoc basis to fulfil job roles. People take exams for degrees to get a job. It may well be that everybody would be a damn sight happier—and it would be quicker and cheaper—to make sure they can see levels 4 and 5. Possibly this Bill provides reskilling and skills updating; maybe it is not perfect but it should provide that model. I hope that we will all get behind making sure that we have enough knowledge to get the best out of this change because there is no point in doing it if people do not know it is there.

I have just had it confirmed that one of my little pet hates on this has been removed, which is great. So there is a chance for just about everybody to go through and—I am waving my dyslexia flag here—a lot of that group might be better off taking on something that is not so language-based or report-based. We need a further commitment to making sure that everybody knows about this new option because it addresses a historical problem—I say “well done” to the current Government for grabbing hold of that—and means that people will get what they want from it. If you want the level 6 experience, which we all know is wonderful because we did it, that is great. However, at the moment, people do not know about the other options, especially in terms of the level 3 T-levels and whether they work. I should have said something nice about the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Watson, in the last group, but I forgot; I apologise. We should make sure that something happens there and that we have reassurance that people are informed about their options because there is not much point in doing it if nobody knows about it. I beg to move.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendment 9 simply asks for more information and guidance. The Bill has been drafted incredibly narrowly in comparison to the full scope of the LLE. I often told my students when they were performing in their examination pieces that less is more when creating a character on stage but, in terms of the detailed guidance in the Bill, we are left with many questions about how it will work in practice. All we want to do is try to ensure that greater substance and practicality is put into the Bill, thus lessening the need for secondary legislation.

Stakeholders have brought up concerns about not yet knowing the details that, when taken together, will make or break whether the LLE will help more people to enter education for the first time later in life; help them to build on existing skills; or allow them to spread that learning over their lifetime. There are uncertainties around the range of courses, the LLE’s role within the wider funding context and its relationship with minimum entry requirements. More detail needs to be included to ensure that it will be effective in boosting lifelong learning. We need greater clarity on the concepts at the centre of the Bill.

There needs to be strong information, advice and guidance campaigns targeted towards both prospective students and employers, which are vital to the success of the LLE. Prospective students of all ages will need help to navigate the widening pool of options and opportunities available to them, and employers will need support to understand and recognise the various qualifications of potential employees.