Mental Capacity (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 27th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I recognise the point that the noble Baroness is making. As I said, our belief is that the rights that currently exist, and are in no way amended or reduced as a result of the Bill, provide what she is asking for. Unfortunately, I am not able to give a commitment that we will be able to return to this issue at Third Reading.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock]

I thank the Minster for his reply and thank all noble Lords who have spoken in support of this group of amendments. I do not believe that the Minister’s reply gives us sufficient security that if the information is contained only in the associated code patients and their families will be protected in the way that we have outlined. We firmly believe that the issue of information and, in particular, its provision in advance need to be in the Bill. It is therefore important that the House makes a statement to the Government about this issue, so I would like to test the opinion of the House.

Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 24th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I certainly think that is an interesting idea which I am very happy to feed into that process. I know the noble Baroness is a great campaigner on this issue, and the numbers of young people who are suffering from mental health problems are, frankly, terrifying. On the point about access, she was right that around one in four children and young people have been able to access these services. Our ambition, which we are on track to meet, is that this should rise to 35%. Clearly, we ought to reach 100%, but that involves recruiting a very large workforce, which we are in the process of doing.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister comment on whether there will be significant investment in trying to take psychology graduates into mental health nursing to enhance the number of people entering the profession?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I do not know the specifics on psychology graduates; I will write to the noble Baroness. If the number of nurses in mental health nurse training at the moment comes through into the profession, there will be 8,000 more mental health nurses by 2020. I am sure we will be keen to recruit them from wherever we can.

NHS: Staffing

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 10th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I completely agree with the noble Baroness that we want to make them feel welcome. I use this opportunity to state again how much those staff are valued and how much we want them to stay here. What we are doing about it practically is making sure that we communicate with employers and provide the EU settlement scheme—indeed, health and social care workers will take part in the pilot, which will happen later this year. We are sending that message and providing that reassurance. I understand that there is anxiety out there, which is why we want to reassure people, but I am reassured by the fact that there are more people from the EU working in the NHS and CCGs today than there were two years ago.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister comment on whether he will consider abolishing the health immigration surcharge, which non-EU nurses must pay to access NHS care? It is stopping people coming to work here.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The immigration surcharge, which applies to all people coming to work here from outside the EU, is about making sure that there is a fair contribution to the running costs of the NHS. That is a reasonable thing to do—it is what the public would expect us to do—but it is important to ensure that it is done in a fair and reasonable way, which represents the average costs incurred by people coming from outside the EU.

Long-term Plan for the NHS

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness makes a good point from her experience. There is agreement across the House—and, indeed, across both services—that there needs to be an integrated service. It is clearly not satisfactory to delineate in the way that we have done historically. How we get there will obviously be difficult. We need the NHS and local government to take the lead and to come up with proposals. If we believe that those proposals will deliver what we want without creating upheaval, it is incumbent on us all to get behind them.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

I welcome this additional contribution to the health service. However, have there been overoptimistic algorithms on improving productivity? We know that staff are currently stretched, and to expect continued productivity increases before we invest in modern technology will result in more staff leaving, and that would not be rational.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness makes an excellent point. We know that NHS staff do a wonderful job and work incredibly hard. In talking about productivity it is wrong to think of it only in terms of getting more out of the same people. The wage bill, I think, makes up around 40% of the total NHS spend, a great deal of which is on buildings, on items and on technology. We need to use more technology so that we can deliver the productivity gains that we need.

Education (Student Support) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2018

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

If the noble Lord will let me finish, I will get to that point. Like other graduates, student nurses will be required to repay these government-funded loans only once they are in employment and earning. It is important to state that the student loan repayment terms are progressive. From April 2018, individuals will make their contribution to the system only when they are earning more than £25,000. Monthly repayments are linked to income, not to interest rates or the amount borrowed, and the outstanding debt is written off after 30 years.

I am not the Education Minister in this House, although I seem to be covering this topic not only tonight but in other forums, but it is important to underline that the reason this system was introduced into this country by a Labour Government, reaffirmed by a coalition Government and continued by a Conservative Government, is that it means that the best-earning graduates, instead of having their fees entirely paid by taxpayers, including people who have never gone to university, make a contribution to the costs incurred, whereas those who are lower-earning through their lives, including those who will perhaps never earn more than £25,000, will make no contribution. That is a more progressive system of funding than one in which everybody gets it for free, no matter how much money they make in their life.

As I said, these reforms give student nurses access to more financial support, albeit they have to pay that back if they can afford to do so later in life. It also provides a level playing field with other students. But perhaps most importantly of all, these actions released about £1 billion of funding to be reinvested in the NHS front line. As a consequence, Health Education England plans to increase the number of fully funded nurse training places by 25% from September 2018. It is important to stress that Health Education England has made that decision as an independent body to meet the need for more nurses that we all agree is there.

As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, pointed out, this equates to around 5,000 more places each year—a major and welcome boost to our much-admired nursing workforce. My background is largely in education and I assure the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, that we understand the urgency of this task and the parallels with education that he mentioned.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock]

Is that for the clinical placement funding?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

That is quite right. That is fully funded clinical placements—just for the sake of clarity. I thank the noble Baroness.

There is understandable concern among noble Lords, which has been expressed previously in this House, about the new system of financial support, but I want to be clear that we are giving the group of postgraduate students that we are discussing access to undergraduate maintenance and tuition fee loans, just as we do with postgraduate teachers. This represents a more generous package of support than the postgraduate master’s loan. We are also making available additional funding for childcare, travel to clinical placements and exceptional hardship funding to ensure that the students are fully supported and are able to complete their studies.

Furthermore, as many noble Lords have mentioned and as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, welcomed, in the debate on the regulations in the other place on 9 May, my honourable friend the Minister of State for Health set out a range of additional support that we are investigating for postgraduate nursing students. This includes specific incentives such as “golden hellos” for postgraduates who go to work in mental health—where the noble Lord, Lord Willis, was quite right that we need to attract more nursing and where there has been a shortfall—the area of learning disability and community nursing. The Government have announced £10 million to support such incentives and we are considering how this should be best delivered.

Many noble Lords have expressed concern about the drop in number of undergraduate applications to nursing courses. We acknowledge that early indications from the latest UCAS data, published in April, show that the number of students applying to study nursing has decreased from this point in the cycle last year. However, that cycle is not yet over, so we need to apply some caution.

It is also worth noting, as noble Lords have pointed out, that there is a distinction between the decline in number of applications and that in the number of students starting their courses. That was exemplified last year, which showed a 23% drop in the number of applications compared to a 3% decline in the number of acceptances. That is regrettable, but it was still the second-highest number of acceptances on record. Several noble Lords have expressed their desire for further information on how this develops. I can confirm that my department has committed to publish an update in autumn 2018 following the close of the 2017-18 application cycle.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, pointed out, there is a global challenge to recruit more nurses. We are working hard to make nursing as attractive a profession as possible. As a result of constructive dialogue over recent months, NHS Employers and the relevant trade unions began a consultation exercise on a three-year pay deal for NHS staff employed under the Agenda for Change contract. Under the plan, the starting salary of a nurse will rise to £24,907 by 2021, not only rewarding current staff for the incredible work they do but sending a clear signal to the country about how much nurses are valued.

We are boosting the attractiveness of the profession in a number of other ways, too. Nearly 4,500 nurses have started the return to practice programme and 3,000 have completed it. Across the country, NHS trusts are developing arrangements for flexible working and there is a concerted effort to tackle workplace bullying through an NHS-wide call to action. Our homes for staff programme is supporting NHS trusts to dispose of surplus land to help up to 3,000 nurses and other staff access affordable housing. I hope that gives the noble Lord, Lord Clark, some concrete examples to back up the warm words we use about supporting the nursing profession.

Several noble Lords have touched on new routes into nursing, which the Government are prioritising. The most significant innovation in this area was the announcement of a new nursing associate role in November 2016. Health Education England has already trained 2,000 nursing associates in a pilot programme and is planning to train up to 5,000 in 2018, with up to 7,500 nursing associates trained through the apprenticeship route in 2019. As well as creating a much-needed new role in its own right—I emphasise “in its own right”, as it is an augmentation to the nursing and other professions—nursing associate training offers an alternative route to becoming a registered nurse. We expect this “earn and learn” approach to be more attractive to older students, a concern which many noble Lords have raised.

To support this career path, Health Education England is developing a shortened nurse degree apprenticeship to facilitate transition from nurse associate to registered nurse, which will also automatically recognise the prior learning and experience gained in the nursing associate role. For the first time, apprentices will be able to work their way up from entry-level health work through to advanced clinical practice in nursing.

Several noble Lords expressed their concern about the apprenticeship route and the figure of only 30 nurses. The official data has been delayed and we believe that the figure is more like 250. We will be able to confirm that. It is a better start but, clearly, not yet the target that we want to reach. However, we believe that this stepped approach through the nursing associate role, giving the opportunities for a pause after two years and then to go on for two years, ought to be more attractive to employers than the current four-year commitment. This development of the nursing associate route therefore provides for a better use of the apprenticeship route.

I want to address a couple of what are perhaps misconceptions. The figure of 40,000 vacancies is used often in this House. I might be pedantic and disagree with that number—the quantum is just about right—but it is important to say that these are not empty places. They are being filled by agency and bank staff. Part of the reason for that is that people want flexibility and more pay, two of the things that we are trying to address so that we can provide more permanent contracts for those people who currently work flexibly.

The noble Lord, Lord Clark, and the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, talked about EU staff. I hope your Lordships will agree that I miss no opportunity to say from this Dispatch Box how much we value those staff and that they have just as much right to apply for settled status as anyone else in this country, provided they fit the criteria. However, it is worth pointing out that there are more EEA staff in the NHS than there were in June 2016. The one category where the figure is lower is in nursing and midwifery but the reason for that was the introduction of a more stringent language test. We are dealing with that issue, which I hope will mean that we continue to see an increase in EEA staff working in our NHS.

The noble Lord, Lord Willis, asked specific questions about the apprenticeship levy. I will need to write to him on that issue having consulted my colleagues in the Department for Education.

Turning quickly to the second point of the Motion, several noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, the noble Baronesses, Lady Walmsley, Lady Watkins and Lady Garden, and others said that we should postpone the introduction of the reforms until the post-18 education and funding review has been completed. As noble Lords know, the Prime Minister launched the review earlier this year to ensure that we have a better system of higher education support that works for everyone. Many aspects of the current system work well and, as was set out in the terms of reference for the review, there are important principles that the Government believe should remain in future. One of those is that sharing the cost between taxpayers and graduates is the right approach, as I rehearsed earlier in my speech.

I take the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, about looking at the Welsh example. I have looked at it myself and I am sure it is something that the review would want to consider. However, it is important that we do not prejudice the work of the expert panel established to support the review or prejudge its outcomes. The fact of the review should not delay these healthcare education reforms, not least because they predate the launch of the review by some distance and already apply to the vast majority of nursing students. We believe it would do more harm than good to further delay these reforms, although it is worth underlining that any relevant reforms stemming from the review will apply equally to this group of student nurses.

In conclusion, I recognise the well-motivated concerns expressed by noble Lords during this debate. However, I hope I have been able to demonstrate that the student finance reforms that this Government have introduced have allowed both the removal of the artificial cap on nurse training places and the largest expansion of student nursing places in a single year ever seen. These two facts are not coincidental; they are inextricably linked. The latter is possible only because of the former and they form part of a wider set of workforce reforms designed to expand, train and reward our nursing profession better so that we can continue to deliver the high standards of NHS care that patients demand. On that basis, I hope the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, will feel able to withdraw his Motion.

Carers: Back Pay Liability

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 16th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

On the extra £2 billion of funding, I have not tried to link it with this; it is of course at the discretion of local authorities to use that to support the social care sector in the way they see fit. It is worth pointing out that Allied Healthcare is in this social care compliance scheme. My honourable friend the Minister for Care has written to it to express her disappointment at the approach it has outlined. Its liabilities have not crystallised yet, so it is not right for it to refuse that and she has written to it to demand clarification. However, clearly we understand that the clock is ticking and that there is an urgency to this.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain what the legal liability is of commissioners who commissioned care services based on the previous costs?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

That is an excellent question and I will write to the noble Baroness with an answer to it.

Children: Obesity

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Thursday 10th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

My Lords, for the avoidance of doubt, I thank my noble friend for pointing out that we are talking about obesity rather than the NHS constitution—which is just as well because I had not prepared for that. She has been steadfast in campaigning on this issue. We know that the problem presents some uncomfortable truths. The Government have taken some significant actions in this area, such as the soft drinks levy, but we have always said that we will not rest if we do not think they are having the impact that we want them to. There is emerging evidence that we need to go further. I cannot give my noble friend a date on further action but I can tell her that this is the subject of most serious consideration at the centre of government.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

I first congratulate the Government on last night’s announcement that there will now be golden hellos for postgraduate students into hard-to-recruit nursing posts in mental health, learning disability and district nursing—which, in the longer term, will help solve some of the problem of childhood obesity. The relationship between obesity and poor health is proven, yet our schools fail to fully embrace tackling this issue. Does the Minister agree that if pilot schools and their pupils were exposed to substantial public health interventions from community-based nursing teams, and their successes and challenges were part of a BBC series, it would be an experiment that might have significant benefits both in assisting a reduction in weight gain and promoting mental health and well-being in children and adolescents more widely?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her acknowledgement of that important step forward in recruiting nurses to hard-to-recruit areas. That is important because we want more mental health, learning disability and district nurses in the future. They have an important role to play in schools. If I may say so, the noble Baroness is slightly underplaying the work that schools are already doing in this area. We have talked about the Daily Mile programme, which is going very well, with 900 schools in England adopting it. Learning about food, healthy eating and nutrition is a compulsory part of the curriculum in key stages 1, 2 and 3. However, I agree that there is always a need to do more.

NHS: Staff Pay

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 21st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I thank my noble friend for making that point. It is not only about the lowest paid staff whom she has described. It is also worth dwelling on the fact that a newly qualified nurse will see a significant increase in his or her pay, which will be 12.6% higher in 2020-21. This is a package which takes account of the fact that starting salaries have been too low. We are trying to address that because it is one of the ways we can attract more people into the profession.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, I welcome this Statement as a sign that the Government have at last recognised the effect that the pay cap has had on recruitment and retention, in particular in nursing. I hope that this pay increase will lift many nurses out of hardship and improve morale. It is a sign that the Government value NHS staff and I especially welcome the significant increase for newly qualified nurses for 2020-21. These new recruits, who commenced their training in 2017 without bursaries, will be in a far better position—comparable with other graduates in terms of starting pay—as they proceed to repay some element their salary after achieving an income of more than £25,000 a year. My only concern is that the charitable and social care sectors, which employ nurses, will need to match these salaries. How can we ensure that they will be able to do so?

Abortion: Misoprostol

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 20th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Lord O’Shaughnessy on 21 January (HL5321), why there are no plans to enable women undergoing early medical abortion to take the second dose of the medication, misoprostol, at home, if they so wish.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord O'Shaughnessy) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government’s priority is to ensure that women who require abortion services have access to safe, high-quality care. Abortions must be performed under the legal framework set by the Abortion Act 1967. We are not currently in a position to approve homes as a class of place under the Act. However, we will continue to keep this matter under review and assess further evidence as it arises.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer, but can he inform the House of the expected timeframe for the Government’s decision regarding enabling women to choose the dignity of being as comfortable as possible in their own homes when they experience medical abortion, rather than some of them suffering while travelling home from the clinic? Journeys of over two hours are not uncommon, particularly for women from rural areas. It is also worth noting that the procedure is endorsed as a safe practice by the World Health Organization.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. No timeframe has been set for any decision on a policy change. She will understand that any change of policy would need to be done cautiously, in the light of the evidence and of legal developments—for example, relating to Scotland’s decision to name homes as a place. It is on that basis that we will consider any further evidence.

Alcohol: Minimum Unit Pricing

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 28th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I would be very happy to meet my noble friend and the colleague he mentioned.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

In terms of austerity, can the Minister justify neglecting the £3.2 billion cumulative reduction in alcohol-related harm over five years that the Public Health England evidence review into the policy cites with an MUP of 60p? That is what would be generated.

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

As I have said, and reiterate to the noble Baroness, we will look at the impact of minimum unit pricing. We must not just take into account any revenue that we generate and the health benefits that could accrue, but make sure that it provides a fair deal for those who drink sensibly.

NHS: Charitable Donations

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Thursday 22nd February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness asks a very interesting question. Clearly these are emerging organisations and most of the charities are attached to hospital trusts—although not exclusively: some are attached to primary care. None of these are yet quite in being. Once they are in being, this will be an excellent suggestion that we should take forward.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain why we should not at least be clearer about what care costs by publishing the tariffs within hospitals so that people understand, if not individually, how expensive some of the day-to-day treatments they get are?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

That is an important point. We are not yet in a position where we have mandatory collection of all that unit pricing data. That will happen from the next financial year onwards, so we will be able to publish that data. It is important, though, to resist the urge to send out to people information itemising costs, precisely for the deterrence reasons that I mentioned.

NHS Winter Crisis

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

This is an afternoon of agreeing to meetings—but, yes, I would be delighted to do so. I am not knowledgeable enough about the issue that the noble Baroness mentioned but, while of course there is a huge difference in the kinds of workloads of those different types of A&E, the target incorporates all of them. They all have the obligation to reach the four-hour waiting time standard and we want to make sure that, whatever the situation and whatever the venue, we can do that.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister explain how, five years after the Francis inquiry, there is a lack of investment in the health and care nursing workforce in England, as outlined in the RCN report published today? That report, Left to Chance, shows that even if we had more beds we would not be able to staff them. In comparison, Wales has invested heavily in new nurses and continued professional development, and is doubling the number of district nurses that it intends to train this year. In England we currently have 4,400 qualified district nurses, but in 2010 we had 7,500. How can we resolve this quickly and ensure that we have more district nurses in training by this September?

Mental Health Care: Vulnerable Children

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 28th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I ask the noble Baroness to write to me on that specific case. Of course, health services should never be withheld on such a basis; they should be provided on the basis of need, as we all know. I can confirm that the Green Paper will be published before the end of the year.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain why some looked-after children who have been on waiting lists for mental health care and are then transferred out of the area for foster care have to start their wait for access to mental health services again, if we have a National Health Service?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I think this picture of a fragmented service is one that the CQC report highlights. One of the ways in which the Government are trying to address that is through incentive payments in the tariff system to make sure that trusts are incentivised to join up care, particularly when children are moving from place to place.

NHS: Winter Staffing Levels

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Thursday 26th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

My noble friend talks with great authority on this issue and he is quite right. The NHS is offering all front-line health staff free vaccinations. NHS England has confirmed that it will also be paying for care workers in social care settings to get free jabs. Furthermore, we are now, for the first time, inoculating in school children aged between two and eight, who are sometimes known as “superspreaders”. This is to ensure that, if such an epidemic were to happen, we would be as well prepared as ever.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister join me in acknowledging the stance being taken by the NMC in seriously considering changes to the English language test to make it more relevant to nursing practice, while maintaining patient safety? This has the potential to increase significantly the recruitment of overseas nurses in the UK. I also seek assurance that the Government will not cut investment in district nurse training.

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising this. We have discussed a number of times the impact of the test on recruitment from countries other than the UK. It is entirely sensible for the NMC to look at this. On nurse training, I hope she will have been reassured by the announcement from my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Health at the Conservative Party conference that we will deliver a 25% increase in nurse training places from 2018-19 onwards.

NHS: Working Conditions

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I completely agree with my noble friend. That is one reason why we are taking steps to deal with health tourism and to ensure that people who not only abuse the system but actually abuse NHS staff, which unfortunately is far too prevalent, are properly prosecuted.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister explain how the STPs will be achieved without further investment in continuing professional development so that people such as paramedics and nurses can work effectively in the community?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I can tell the noble Baroness that investment is going into STPs not just in recurrent spending for the purposes she described but, as was announced in the Budget, in capital spending to achieve the transformations that we all want to see.

Brexit: Nursing Staff

Debate between Baroness Watkins of Tavistock and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 27th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I thank the noble Baroness for giving us the opportunity to talk about the fact that we have increased the number of nurses and health visitors by nearly 5,000 since 2010. She is quite right to say that we need more of them; we have a growing and ageing population and higher expectations of what the NHS should be delivering. It is for that reason that we have a number of things in action: we have 52,000 nurses in training; we have a return to practice programme, which has already prepared 2,000 nurses to come back into the profession; and we are introducing nursing apprenticeships and nursing associates. We are not complacent about this issue—we know it is important—but there are a number of programmes in train to fill the gap that she has identified.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock]

My Lords, perhaps the Minister could consider that one of the reasons that people are not coming from the European Union is that they feel unwelcome; housing is almost impossible to get, particularly in some of the metropolitan areas; the reduction in the value of the pound against European currencies means that salaries have stagnated even more for some of these people; and, actually, morale is so poor in parts of the health service and social services that people would rather remain and work in their own countries.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I reiterate the point that the Prime Minister made yesterday about the welcome, and indeed the offer of settled status, not just to nurses but to any other EU citizens and workers in the country. It is absolutely not the case that they are unwelcome—quite the opposite. They are as valued as much as any other person working in the health service. The noble Baroness mentioned housing, and she is right, of course, that housing is a huge issue for everybody. Indeed, one thing that I want to look at in the next few years is how we can take surplus land that sits within the NHS and make sure that some of it is used to provide the kind of key-worker housing that nurses, doctors and, indeed, other members of the public sector can use, so that they are able to come into the service and support our hospitals.