Gaza: Electricity Supply
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd(8 years, 7 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Verma) (Con)
My Lords, we are concerned by the electricity shortage in Gaza and the serious impact it is having on the humanitarian situation. We are in regular dialogue with Israel, the Palestinian Authority and other development actors, specifically the EU and the UN, on the extension of the 161 power line and the conversion of the Gaza power station to gas. Close to £475,000 in DfID funding is being used to support planning for the Gaza desalination plant.
Lord Judd (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, but does she not agree that the people—the men, women and children—of Gaza have had enough? With this latest total breakdown in generating capacity, the water supply for drinking is at minimal, hazardous levels, and the water that is available is far from guaranteed to be pure. Does she also agree that we are in a situation where sewage is now just not being treated but is being pumped in increasing amounts into the sea—and that behind all this lies the complete failure within Gaza of an economy in any meaningful sense with which order can be established, services can be properly provided and the future can be carried forward? It is not just the humanitarian situation, which is bad enough. Surely this is a festering point for instability in the area and a playground for extremists, and it has implications way beyond Gaza itself.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, the noble Lord raises a series of very important points but ultimately, as he and other noble Lords will be aware, we need to encourage a two-state peace-process solution. That is what we, the UK Government, and others are encouraging. Ultimately, however, it is down to the two parties to make sure that they are fully engaged.
Syria
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd(8 years, 9 months ago)
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Baroness Verma
My noble friend makes an important point about the talks and making sure that they do not stall. They have come to a pause. The UN special envoy decided to pause the talks until 25 February as it was apparent that there was little prospect of progress being made at this time. But my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary will be in Munich on Thursday 11 February and will press the Russians, who I am sure will be attending, too, to ensure that they put pressure on the Assad regime, so that the conditions allow unfettered humanitarian access across Syria and that we have an end to the violations of international humanitarian law, as set out under the UN Security Council Resolution 2254.
My noble friend is absolutely right to ask that we keep the House updated and we absolutely commit to do so. He also mentioned Daesh—and of course our goal is to defeat Daesh so that it no longer presents a threat to the UK or to international stability. As he rightly says, we are dealing with very complex circumstances. He asked about the troops on the ground in the countries that he mentioned. I shall have to write to him, because I do not have that answer at hand—so if he will allow me to, I shall write to him and place a copy in the Library.
Lord Judd (Lab)
My Lords, I am sure that many of us in all parts of the House will want to express our appreciation to the Government for the successful work last week. It was very important. Does it not illustrate beyond doubt that, with all the tragedies that confront us now and in future, international co-operation and effective international arrangements are absolutely indispensable, and that, unless we work on foreign policy as a priority and build these up all the time, we shall be sticking our fingers in the dyke?
The Minister talked about the importance of education, and that of course is right. But if we are going to talk about reconstruction and the long-term future of these young people, it is not just a matter of getting children into schools; it is also a matter of further and higher education. Can she reassure us that there are plans in hand for adequate access to higher and further education, as well as to schools?
Baroness Verma
The noble Lord is absolutely right—it will not be just about primary and secondary education; it will be about vocational skills and higher education. Often, the length of time a person is a refugee is around 17 years, so he is absolutely right that we need to make sure that we are addressing not just children’s needs but wider needs, including making sure that people are being trained up with the right skills. That is why I am really pleased that we have doubled our efforts to give support in Jordan and Lebanon. We have put extra money there to ensure that people get that training and investment, and get the help that will help them to go on and rebuild Syria.
Fracking
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd(9 years, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Verma
My Lords, we have made it clear that onshore exploration will be devolved.
Infrastructure Planning (Radioactive Waste Geological Disposal Facilities) Order 2015
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd(9 years, 9 months ago)
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Baroness Verma
I re-emphasise that planning remains a devolved issue for those devolved areas.
My noble friend Lady Miller asked whether the local planning system was not the means for testing public support. The process of identifying a site and demonstrating public support is separate from, and additional to, the process of obtaining development consent. The planning consent process will not replace the siting process. A GDF is clearly a nationally significant piece of infrastructure, and it is appropriate that an application for development consent should be made under the system which was designed to examine such projects.
The noble Lord, Lord Judd, asked whether the screening exercise ruled out Cumbria, which has already been shown several times to be unsuitable for a GDF. The national geological screening exercise will treat all parts of the country equally, as I have already said, and the first step will be the development of guidance based on safety requirements for a GDF. The guidance will be developed openly and—a point made by the noble Lord—transparently through engagement with interested parties and the public. It will then be applied to produce maps and accompanying information about the potential for the development of a robust GDF safety case in different settings across the country. I hope that the noble Lord is reassured that we do not focus, as he and others have done, just on Cumbria.
Lord Judd
If I may say so, the Minister knows very well that this is not the first time she has given me such reassurances. All I can say is, “We hear the words”, but it will be the transparency, to which she refers, and the convincing nature of this operation of national research for all to see that will be crucial.
While I am on this point, we have referred to Northern Ireland and Scotland in this context. However, in terms of the hazards, presumably at some point the Irish Government have to be taken on board.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, discussions on these issues are always ongoing. We are always talking to our colleagues in the devolved authorities. Coming back to the transparency argument—
Baroness Verma
My Lords, as I said, those discussions are always ongoing and I will broaden them out to all devolved Assemblies and Governments.
Coming back to the question on transparency, I hope that the noble Lord will think that the process we are taking forward this time is far more transparent than the previous process. It takes into account far more exploration and discussion with a greater number of stakeholders to get a positive view of where communities lie. I urge the noble Lord to be reassured by the work that has been undertaken on the process since 30 January 2013, when the process came to a stop.
Infrastructure Bill [HL]
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd(10 years ago)
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Lord Judd
I am sure that my noble friend shares my gratitude for the full way in which the Minister is replying. However, there is just one point she made which intrigues me. She said that the regulator has powers that he can use in these contexts. However, if the taxpayer is faced with the possibility of having to foot the bill, why is it not compulsory to require that these things are covered?
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I hoped that I had reassured noble Lords that we do not wish to see the taxpayer foot the bill or any bill, and that there will be processes in place to ensure that that is the case. Having gone through the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and his concerns, I hope that he will see fit to withdraw it.
Climate Change
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd
Lord Judd
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to strengthen global co-operation in order to meet the challenges of climate change and to ensure that the United Kingdom is an example of effective support for environmental protection and emission reduction.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Baroness Verma) (Con)
My Lords, the Government work through multilateral organisations such as the UN, the G20 and the G7, among others, to encourage greater co-operation in tackling climate change, including through the UNFCCC, where we are seeking to agree in 2015 a new international and legally binding rule-based agreement to limit global emissions post-2020. The last UNFCCC Conference of the Parties in Warsaw at the end of 2013 saw all nations agreeing to start or intensify domestic preparations for a global climate change deal in 2015 and to work on a programme and timetable for this progress.
Lord Judd (Lab)
Would the Minister agree with the estimate that to avoid catastrophic consequences global warming must be contained to 2%? Would she also agree that as things stand, the world is on track for 3% to 5%? Is it not therefore absolutely essential that the Government stand firmly by their 50% carbon reduction target and do not in any way back-track? Is it not essential that they use this commitment within the European Union to persuade the Union to move beyond its totally inadequate target of 40%? Would she also agree that at the UN climate summit in September this year, we should use that commitment to galvanise the action necessary for a successful agreement at the world leaders’ summit next year?
Baroness Verma
The noble Lord is of course right that we need to have ambitious but cost-effective targets. We need the European Commission’s 2030 framework to be urgently agreed, which will adopt the 40% that the noble Lord mentioned. However, we have a more ambitious target to work towards—50%—in the context of an ambitious global agreement. That is what the United Kingdom is working hard to get.
Climate Change: Extreme Weather
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Baroness Verma) (Con)
My Lords, summer heat waves and heavy rainfall events are expected to become more frequent in future. The Government are taking action through the national adaptation plan to develop UK climate resilience, through the Climate Change Act 2008 and the Energy Act 2013 to reduce domestic greenhouse gas emissions by 80% by 2050, and through international negotiations to mitigate climate change by reducing global emissions.
Lord Judd (Lab)
While I thank the Minister for those observations about resilience, does she agree that the estimate is that over the next 20 years a further 250,000 homes will be at risk and that the cost of the damage is likely to be in excess of £3 billion? Can she assure us that the Government are galvanising action without delay and with all due priority to ensure that the programme is sufficient for the resilience necessary? Furthermore, does she agree that because of the threats within the United Kingdom coupled with the threats across the world—disease, hunger, migration and acute instability—there can be no further delay in galvanising the international community into making this absolutely central to all political activity?
Baroness Verma
The noble Lord is of course right. My right honourable friend the Minister Greg Barker is currently in New York, ensuring that negotiations at an international level are very much focused on going forward for 2015 and on the sort of commitments that we want from the international community. Closer to home, the noble Lord is of course aware that we have invested over the course of this Parliament over £3 billion in trying to respond to issues such as floods. We are now protecting 20,000 more houses over the 165,000 houses that were already protected through the measures that we have taken.
Energy: Action on Bills
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd
Baroness Verma
My Lords, my noble friend is right that we need a broad energy mix and shale gas will be part of that once we have ensured that it is safe and environmentally safe to extract. That we recognise the need for a wider energy mix is shown in the establishment of the Office of Unconventional Gas and Oil.
Lord Judd (Lab)
My Lords, I return to the question asked by my noble friend Lord Reid. Would it not be better if the Minister just accepted that this whole unhappy saga has demonstrated that there are vast areas of policy which cannot simply be left to market forces because there are too many social issues involved? Intelligent government is, therefore, about getting the right mix between the roles of competition, leadership and constructive intervention by the state on behalf of society.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I return to the response I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Reid. We need greater competition to ensure that consumers get the best price available. We cannot market-manage a sector when the noble Lord’s party reduced 14 or 15 suppliers to six. We need to widen the pool of suppliers so that consumers have a greater choice, are able to switch more easily and can be sure that energy efficiency measures will help them to reduce their bills.
Energy Bill
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Judd, for his amendment and for raising the matter of Ofgem’s social and environmental duties. I recognise the importance that the noble Lord and others attach to this. It is recognised in primary legislation, which sets out Ofgem’s duties, including those concerned with environmental sustainability and social issues. The noble Lord will be aware that Ofgem has other duties, including its principal objective to protect consumer interests, including their interest in a reduction of greenhouse gases and security of supply, as well as duties to promote efficiency and economy and the need to ensure that energy businesses are able to finance their activities.
The Government recognise that Ofgem’s role to a large extent is concerned with identifying what is an appropriate balance between all of those different objectives. This is a case of an independent economic regulator. The Government’s principles of economic regulation state that,
“regulatory decisions are taken by the body that has the legitimacy, expertise and capability to arbitrate between the required trade-offs”.
In the case of energy, that body is, of course, Ofgem.
We are introducing the strategy and policy statement as a result of the Ofgem review, which concluded that this was necessary to provide more coherence between the Government’s strategic energy priorities and the way Ofgem regulates the energy sector. It is crucial, however, that the statement should not undermine independent regulation. The review also concluded that Ofgem should remain responsible for the consideration of trade-offs between economic goals and broader goals, including social and environmental matters. That is why Ofgem will now have additional duties to take into account the contents of the statement when carrying out its own regulatory functions, which will stand alongside its existing duties. As before, Ofgem will be expected to continue to achieve the appropriate balances between its objectives.
The strategy and policy statement will set out the Government’s strategic policy and identify policy outcomes which are relevant to what Ofgem should achieve, but it will not specify how Ofgem should act to achieve these outcomes or specify outcomes in a way that would compromise Ofgem’s independence. It is not necessary to restate Ofgem’s objectives within the strategy and policy statement and it would not be appropriate to include text which could be seen as directing Ofgem on how it should interpret its duties.
I repeat my previous reassurances that we will take social and environmental matters into account when we draft the strategy and policy statement and that there will be opportunities for interested parties to comment on its contents when we consult next year. Both Houses will be able to consider the contents of the statement before it is designated.
My noble friend Lord Jenkin raised the role of the Environment Agency. Ofgem is a regulator of the energy sector and the strategy and policy statement is aimed at achieving coherence between government energy policy and regulatory actions. It is not aimed at doing the work of the Environment Agency which, as my noble friend rightly said, is a duty on that agency.
However, the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and others have raised important points about visual amenity and other environmental concerns. Existing planning and environmental habitat legislation are operating in tandem with national policy guidance on planning matters. This provides the framework to ensure that this is done, and done properly. Environmental impacts are considered at all stages of the planning process, from the development of proposals by applicants, including, for example, through preparation of environmental statements, to consideration by the Planning Inspectorate and final determination and assessment by the Secretary of State. Environmental considerations are also taken into account when government are taking policy-making processes. Key guidance on considering planning for nationally significant infrastructure projects is contained in the national policy statements.
There is a lot already out there for Governments to utilise so, given all those reassurances, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, feels better reassured and will therefore withdraw his amendment.
Lord Judd
My Lords, as I have said before, I have no doubts whatever about the Minister’s good will. What I am concerned about is the muscle that will ensure the objectives for which I have been arguing. I listened carefully to the words of the Minister. I am of course an optimist by nature and I hope that what she said will lead to the right conclusions. I would, however, be misleading the House if I did not say that I have a profound sense of foreboding of another grim slide downwards in the character and quality of our countryside. This really is a profoundly serious issue. We shall see what happens but I hope I am allowed to say that I am absolutely confident that if this Government fail to reverse the trend, it will be reversed by the future Labour Government who, after all, will be the heirs to all that fine and imaginative legislation between 1945 and 1951 which enshrined the importance of the countryside in our national profile. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Energy Bill
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd
Lord Judd
Perhaps I may ask the Minister a question, because her answer would be immensely helpful for me in considering what to say in my reply. Will she reassure me that she will write to me a letter, which can be placed in the Library and elsewhere, setting out precisely how the Government will satisfy themselves that Ofgem will pay due regard to the effect on the environment of activity connected with the conveyance of gas through pipes or generation, transmission and the distribution or supply of electricity? What measures and benchmarks, and associated matters, will be taken into account and used in establishing those benchmarks?
Baroness Verma
My Lords, of course I am absolutely happy to ensure that I write to the noble Lord on the points that he has raised today. I also say to my noble friend that I hope I have reassured him that planning decisions are as they have been laid out and that we will take very much into account the views of the local communities, as has been laid out by the Secretary of State for the Department for Communities and Local Government. I hope that on that note I have conveyed enough reassurance for the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Judd
My Lords, first, I thank those who have spoken in support of my amendments. I particularly welcome the strong support from my Front Bench. The Minister certainly has reassured me that she takes these issues seriously. I think that she is a civilised person who sees the force of what I have been arguing. I just would like to make several observations. First, we all bemoan, and English literature is full of references, what happened in the Industrial Revolution. Without in any way undermining the drive and everything that was so important in the Industrial Revolution, with the benefit of hindsight we can see that things could have been done much better. We would not have seen the same degree of rape and misuse of valuable rural, scenic assets in the country.
My second observation draws on the OECD report that has just been published. One of the reasons why the UK apparently scores relatively highly as being a good place to live is because of the environmental considerations of living here. We should jealously preserve that quality in our life. I have no doubt whatever that, in the context of what I have come to regard a very ideological age with its total commitment to the market, the quantative issues in forward policy will be very well put forward and strenuously advocated. If we really take seriously the preservation of our heritage, the landscape and all that makes for a wonderful country in which to live, those arguments will not necessarily automatically by market mechanisms come forward in the same way, because these are public goods. Therefore, from this standpoint, a much stronger argument about just what it means to take into account these considerations and who should be involved in representing and presenting them should be in the Bill. At the moment, because she is a very reasonable person, I am sure that the Minister will understand that however much aspiration there is in the drafting of the Bill, it leaves an awful lot to the subjectivity of the regulator. To be told that the regulator is going to have to report annually on the fulfilment of the objectives is, again, a nice aspiration; it is full of good intention, I am sure. But against which precise benchmarks is he going to report? That is why the letter could be so important, and why I hope—I am sorry, I should have stipulated this—that it will be with us before Third Reading.
From all the standpoints, it is important to recognise that we are talking about what the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Newcastle expressed so well, as put to us by the noble Viscount, Lord Ridley. We are talking about our duty to the future. I am sure no noble Lords want their children and grandchildren to grow up in an age in which we have enshrined in law and legislation the need to know the price of everything, but in which we have allowed the decline of knowing about the value of things. That is why the considerations before us are of such importance.
I do not question the Minister’s goodwill, but I suggest to her—because we are friends, I can put it to her bluntly—that in the light of experience it could quickly look like an awful lot of waffle. What matters is to have some muscle in the Bill, supporting the excellent aspirations of the Minister, and that we ensure that the right course is taken. At this stage, in thanking those who participated in this, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Energy Bill
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Judd, for prompting further debate on the setting of targets for the landfilling of waste. Amendment 76 is designed to require the Secretary of State to set out a plan and timeframe, as soon as is practicable, for reducing and eventually eliminating the landfilling of organic waste. It would make it available for renewable energy generation and other appropriate uses, consistent with the waste hierarchy as defined in the Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2011.
The Government support the minimisation of organic waste going into landfill and are sympathetic to the aims of this amendment. When we debated this matter in Committee, I outlined the considerable progress made in minimising organic waste entering landfill by the reduction of food waste and the increase in the number of anaerobic digesters generating energy from food waste. We very much agree with the points that the noble Lord made during that debate about the value of avoiding emissions of greenhouse gases from landfill. Preventing food waste is the most effective approach in carbon-saving terms: compared to landfilling, each tonne of food waste prevented means 4.2 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions are avoided.
We have worked very successfully with industry to reduce supply chain food and packaging waste by nearly 10% over the past three years, while the Waste and Resources Action Programme’s “Love Food Hate Waste” campaign helps consumers to make informed choices on reducing food waste. Household food waste is down by 13% since 2006, and we expect a 20% reduction to be achieved during the three phases of the Courtauld commitment that all the major supermarkets have signed up to. These results show that the voluntary approach can deliver real reductions in waste while allowing businesses to be more efficient and competitive. We want to build on this work with businesses rather than impose targets or restrictions. When food waste cannot be avoided, anaerobic digestion is currently the best option that we have, because it produces renewable energy and a valuable fertiliser. Over the years, we have provided a range of support through WRAP for anaerobic digestion, including £11 million in grant funding.
The substantial increase in the number of anaerobic digesters generating energy from waste continues. We now have more than 100 megawatts of capacity for waste and, together with the long-standing use of anaerobic digestion in the sewage treatment sector, this gives us capacity to generate 1.5 terawatt hours annually. In the Government’s anaerobic digestion strategy to tackle barriers to anaerobic digestion, we estimated that there was a potential to generate 3 terawatt hours to 5 terawatt hours of electricity by 2020. With another 300 megawatts of capacity consented or being built, the industry is well on its way to delivering that potential.
Most of the actions in our anaerobic digestion strategy are now complete. The Government published a second progress report in August and it is now for industry to use the outputs to ensure that the barriers they identified are removed. I hope the noble Lord will be reassured that we can continue to reduce organic waste entering landfill by encouraging food waste prevention and supporting a growing anaerobic digestion industry without introducing further targets to those set out in the EU landfill directive. I also add that current evidence suggests that further statutory targets would have an impact on businesses and local authorities in compliance and monitoring, risking additional cost burdens on business. It is likely that these additional cost burdens faced by industry and local authorities would be passed on to the consumer, which means that consumers could risk facing higher costs if additional statutory landfill bans were introduced.
The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, asked about reporting on a reduction of landfill. Landfill tax is the main form of reducing organic waste from landfill. Defra is encouraging food waste prevention and encouraging the use of anaerobic digestion; the Environment Agency monitors emissions under the industrial emissions directive. Under the permitting regulations, the Environment Agency also monitors the air quality.
We are mindful of the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Judd, around this sector, but I hope that I have been able to satisfy the noble Lord that the actions that we are taking and our encouragement of industries such as anaerobic digestive generators to make use of waste will help him to decide to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Judd
I thank those who have participated in this short debate. I particularly thank my noble friend on the Front Bench for his rather double-edged intervention. I do not doubt his good will, but I have anxieties about his complacency—and I hope that he forgives me for putting it so bluntly. I am afraid that goes for the Minister as well.
What we have not heard from either Front Bench is any kind of response to what is already in evidence: that those who are responsible for developing the industry in this sphere are already running into difficulty. It is all right coming here and telling us, “We have got a trend and it is going well”; the warning signals are there: they are not attracting the money they should be attracting for investment. The reason for this is uncertainty over key supplies. Surely we do not wait until the whole thing collapses. That is not a very sensible approach to political management. If the warning signs are there, this is the time to take action. I sometimes find it quite extraordinary. In quite a number of countries in Europe it is absolutely taken for granted that this is the way to approach it; for example, Flanders, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Sweden all have compulsory arrangements in this area.
We say that we want to ensure that this change takes place and that we are very glad that it has proved itself as something that can develop. We do not, however, want it to dry up. I ask the Minister to go away from this brief exchange—perhaps I might very gently suggest that my Front Bench does the same—and look at what is actually happening now; not the trends in the past, but what is happening now. It is because of that that action is necessary.
I shall, of course, at this stage withdraw the amendment, but I hope that it is not just a matter of the Minister coming and reporting to my noble friend, “Ah, I’m afraid it has all dried up; it is not happening”. It is a matter of looking at it, saying what the warning signs are and taking action. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I take the noble Lord’s concerns very seriously. It may be helpful if he would allow me to write to him in further detail about the decommissioning plans that we have in place. I will try to reassure him that the independents with these funds in place are away from the operators, and we are keen to make sure that the funds are met. However, since I have not reassured him enough, I think it may be helpful to write to him.
My noble friend the Duke of Montrose asked if the ONR will regulate ongoing operations of power stations. The ONR will continue to regulate and monitor installations as they are operating and beyond. It will continue to work closely with the Environment Agency and, of course, the other, separate agencies of the devolved powers to ensure that the effects of nuclear power generation on the environment are monitored and action taken where necessary.
My noble friend Lord Caithness said that we should have a single design for reactors. The Government’s position has always been clear in that we encourage diversity in reactor design but of course, as with all things, they have to meet the highest standards that we expect of them.
Lord Judd
Frankly, I am a little confused, and I wonder whether the Minister could put me right. She said earlier in her response that of course these things were up to the company to perform as required. Of course, this is all happening as a result of a tough political decision by the Government. We cannot walk away, as a nation or a Government, from our ultimate responsibility. What some of us are concerned about is having systems in place that ensure that companies are indeed performing as expected. In this context, we come back to what we were discussing earlier, that we cannot be certain that everything is being done as it should be because we ourselves say that we have not got that expertise. Can the Minister address these issues? There really is a credibility gap.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I recognise that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, talks about the resources and the capabilities that we require going forward. We are mindful of that, and so is the ONR. There are a range of measures that the ONR is already engaged in to replace a depleted number of experts. I reassure the noble Lord that in saying that it is for companies to build and operate does not detract from the ONR’s main business, which is to ensure that reactors meet the highest standards of safety. We are measuring two things together, including the fact we have got the resources and capabilities in place, which the ONR is very aware of, as are the Government.
This is a historical vacuum that we are filling—the ONR is well aware of it—but there are a great deal of measures that the ONR is taking to ensure that we have those ongoing capabilities coming forward. We know, and take seriously, what the noble Lord is asking.
Lord Judd
I really am grateful to the Minister because she is trying very hard to reassure me and I always find myself being seduced when she is at the Dispatch Box with her arguments. However, I hope that she will agree with me that it is an aspiration on our part; as a nation, we have not got the means to be certain that what we are aspiring to, and exhorting people to do, is in fact being done. That is why it is so incredibly urgent to close this engineering expertise gap and to make sure that the credibility is foolproof.
Energy Bill
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd
Lord Judd
My Lords, I ought to declare an interest in the sense that, unless climate change has made a difference, I live about 10 miles due north-east of Sellafield. I also regularly use the A66, which is used by vehicles carrying nuclear materials and waste, and I also use the M6. I am sure that other noble Lords and I have that in common.
I shall start by reflecting on what my noble friend Lord Whitty said. It is good to see that the department has taken these issues seriously in the Bill. His amendments are extremely constructive and helpful in strengthening what the department obviously takes seriously, and that is right.
Perhaps I may make a couple of observations. First, I should like to pick up on what the noble Lord, Lord Deben, said. The Minister knows about my preoccupations with the recycling and waste process. I believe it is essential always to remember that this is a national responsibility and that we have to be certain that the sites selected are the best—or, at any rate, the least worst—available in the United Kingdom. It is irresponsible to get this tangled up with localism, local responsibility and so on. It is quite unfair to place on a local authority and local representatives responsibility for strategic decisions on such an important national issue. This is a national responsibility and we must approach it in that context. Of course it would be appropriate, at the right time, to get involved with local authorities on the implications, but we have to be satisfied that we are acting responsibly as a nation.
Secondly, I have often reflected in life that one of the problems that we run into as legislators is that we are inclined to think that legislation provides the answer. Of course, it does not. Legislation at its best underpins what should be in society’s behaviour and enhances the opportunities for good, effective professionalism and so on. Inadequate arrangements work exactly in the opposite direction and inhibit good action. Although sometimes with imperfect structures wonderful things can happen, it is much better and more reassuring to have the best possible structures and arrangements.
My most important point is that what matters most is the culture. It has to be a culture shared by workers and management at all levels. It cannot be the responsibility of only the safety experts or those named with a safety responsibility or the inspectorate. That is a losing game; it is like a gamekeeper trying to catch poachers. The responsibility must be central to the professionalism and culture of all those involved in this work because the hazards are considerable. From that standpoint, I hope that in our deliberations we will look at this sense of shared cultural responsibility.
I do not want to be sensationalist—it is easy to be sensationalist in an area such as this—but for those of us who live in an area like Cumbria there are too many stories of one thing after another going wrong. We have just had another massive fine imposed in the past few weeks. We have had stories of lorries coming from the Midlands with waste dribbling from them all the way across to their destination in west Cumbria. It is important to make sure that this issue is properly seized and that there is an indispensable culture of commitment in the whole nuclear operation. I want nuclear to succeed but this is essential to its success and contribution to humanity.
My final point is simply this: there is probably room for us to explore a little more the relationship between what we are talking about now and health. There needs to be full co-operation between all those involved and those operating the health services in the vicinity. Sometimes in these areas matters come to light that need attention, and I hope that that point can be taken on board.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for his careful consideration of this part of the Bill. I will start by commenting on questions that have been raised before going through my notes to be able to answer, I hope, each amendment that the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, has raised. The noble Lord mentioned the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee’s report. We are extremely grateful to the committee and are giving careful consideration to its recommendations and working closely with it to provide it with further documentation. I hope to get that to it very soon.
The noble Lord asked whether the Bill covered sites yet to be granted a licence. The definition of a relevant nuclear installation includes proposed installation sites, so the answer is yes. No safety critical work can ever happen unless a licence has been issued.
I start by congratulating my noble friend Lord Jenkin because next year he will be completing 50 years of continued service in Parliament and we are extremely grateful for that.
Overseas Aid: Famine Relief
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd(13 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness Verma
My Lords, my noble friend is aware that the DfID programmes are concentrating on ensuring that maternal and reproductive health is at the centre of all our programmes. Of course, the noble Baroness is right that the populations in these particularly poor countries are growing far more rapidly than those in more developed countries. However, it is through education and supporting women to get better healthcare that we will be able to address this problem.
Lord Judd
My Lords, I declare an interest as a former director of Oxfam. Does the Minister agree that in their welcome response to this terrible crisis the Government must take care to ensure that, in the distribution of assistance, they do not inadvertently undermine sustainability in the area and that this will be done sensitively, in a way that enables people to build their lives again and build their sustainability? Is it not very important to co-operate with the NGOs, with all their insight into the situation, in achieving this?
Baroness Verma
The noble Lord is right. We have to work on a long-term plan, but we also have to react and respond to the crisis at the moment. The noble Lord will be aware that we have just had a review of the way we distribute humanitarian aid and we want to build on the recommendations of my noble friend Lord Ashdown so that there is resilience in the system as well as responding in the short term.
World Development Report 2011
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd(13 years, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Verma
My Lords, my noble friend raises an important issue, which, by and large, we look at country by country. We take very strict instructions on how we sell our arms to countries.
Lord Judd
My Lords, I declare an interest as a trustee of Saferworld, which works on security sector reform. Does the Minister agree that all those exposed to the problems of the third world over the years recognise that one of the biggest of all generators of poverty is conflict, and that too high a priority cannot be given to conflict prevention and resolution? Does she also agree that one of the problems is that very often the security systems of these countries exacerbate the problem, and that effective security sector reform is another high priority? Of course, we must also do more to strengthen moves to control the arms trade, and the moves by the United Nations, on which Britain is leading, are crucial.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right about many of the issues that he has raised today. That is why focusing 30 per cent of aid on those countries where fragility and conflict have set back the ability to move forward has been a key reform to how DfID works. Through our bilateral reviews, we recognised some of the countries where we needed to change how we gave aid to them, directing it to the causes of conflict rather than just looking at poverty.
International Aid Reviews: Conclusions
Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Judd(13 years, 8 months ago)
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Lord Judd
I declare an interest as a former director of Oxfam and as a current trustee of Saferworld. There is a great deal of material in this Statement. Can the noble Baroness give us an assurance that we shall be able to have a proper and full debate on its implications at an early date?
Reference was made to the desire to see poor people being able to own property. Does that also envisage a stake in land and land reform to ensure that poor people can farm for themselves and engage in their own agricultural production? Can the Government also assure us that priority will continue to be given to the whole issue of security sector reform that we can see is essential for providing the context within which development can take place?
More specifically, does this Statement cover the immense needs that will now arrive among the impoverished homeless, in many cases in effect stateless refugees from Libya and elsewhere in north Africa? If there is concern about conflict resolution and areas of conflict, why is there no mention in the Statement of the north Caucasus?
Baroness Verma
On the noble Lord’s question about the debate, this is, as I have always said, in the hands of the usual channels. If he feels that a debate is required, we need to address that through them.
We have already distributed some humanitarian aid to Libya. We were already placed to ensure that refugees fleeing could have some humanitarian aid. The noble Lord is absolutely right that this will develop into looking after many thousands of people who are fleeing a very unstable place. We chartered an aircraft that left Dubai this morning with blankets for 36,000 people and 300 tents to shelter at least 1,500 people. This was in response to a request from the UNHCR. As of yesterday, at least 126,000 who have crossed international borders out of Libya, including Egypt and Tunisia, will we hope be helped by some of the humanitarian aid that we will be providing them.
As you know, this is a moving picture. A lot is going on, and it is very difficult to be able to comment further. We also need to be very mindful that whatever we say in this country is immediately responded to elsewhere. However, I reassure the noble Lord that humanitarian aid is at the forefront of our thinking.