Covid-19: PCR and Lateral Flow Test Providers

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for bringing that to my attention. I was in a meeting with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care as well as other Ministers today. We were told categorically that we have ordered many more tests to enable people to test more often.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, there are hundreds of private test companies to choose from when you are heading abroad, and that is part of the problem. Which? carried out some mystery shopping in the autumn and revealed a list of companies that give the most reliable and best-value tests—I share that information with the House—and also the ones to avoid as being rip-offs and unreliable. Is the Minister aware of this consumer research? What notice will the Government be taking of the ones that Which? recommends not to use? Have they yet been removed from the Government’s list?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for making noble Lords aware of that particular comparison website—let me put it that way. We try carefully not to recommend particular private providers or comparison websites, but this market is developing, and there are lots of comparison websites out there looking at this market. As we start to have more testing and do more diagnoses at home, this market will develop.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Wednesday 8th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for reading the Statement tonight. On this side of the House, we have always put public health first at every point during this pandemic, so I repeat the words of my honourable friend Wes Streeting, shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, in the Commons an hour ago, when he said

“I want to be clear with the House and the country that Labour will support these measures in the national interest.”

Of course, we know that this decision is not taken lightly. Restrictions impact on people’s lives, livelihoods and liberties and we do not take those for granted on this side of the House.

Everyone wants to be able to enjoy Christmas safely this year, given the trauma of last winter. But the omicron variant is a clear threat, as the Minister has explained, and clearly swift action is needed to limit its spread. I want to ask the Minister a question I have not asked for some time in your Lordships’ House: what is the R number today and what is it predicted to be in two weeks’ time?

On these Benches, we have said that scrapping the guidance on mask wearing was a mistake and have consistently called for masks to be worn in indoor hospitality settings too. We welcome the Government’s reintroduction of that measure, if that is what the Minister said. I seek some clarification on what is actually going to happen; I am not sure I understand the difference between an attraction and hospitality, so could the Minister go into some detail about what will happen in our pubs and restaurants—or will they continue as they are?

The House may remember that we have said that people should have the flexibility to work from home, so we welcome the updated guidance on that. On vaccine passports, I am glad that the Government have listened and responded following their previously abandoned plans to require vaccination status only, and that presenting a negative test will be an option. Can I ask for clarification about whether vaccine passports will be required for access to essential services?

The Minister is correct to say that the greatest tool against the pandemic remains vaccination. How do the Government plan to speed up the booster rollout, which is certainly not hitting the target of 500,000 vaccines a day and is not on track to get everybody boosted by the end of January?

Public health depends and relies on people’s willingness to comply with rules that affect their lives, livelihoods and liberties, and which, in return, relies on confidence in the people making those rules. The damage the Government have done to public compliance with the rules that have governed our lives during the pandemic is very serious indeed. We had the Cummings eye test—that seems like years ago—the former Health Secretary’s tryst with his special adviser, the former Education Secretary’s private party, the Prime Minister attempting to get out of having to isolate, and now the footage of his staff laughing on camera and joking about breaking the rules at a No. 10 Christmas party.

It is hard to overstate how this makes people feel when they have followed the rules and complied, sometimes at enormous personal cost—the businesses that were forced to close; the family weddings that were postponed; the chance to say goodbye to loved ones at funerals that we missed; and the NHS workers, educators and key workers who risked their own health to get us through the pandemic before vaccines and treatments arrived. The headline we saw today is why the laughter in the video from Downing Street is so stomach-turning; it feels as if they are laughing at us.

It is not just that they clearly feel that there is one rule for them and one for everyone else, infuriating though that is; it is the actions of the Prime Minister, which have undermined public trust and distracted from key public messaging at a critical time. This comes from the very top of our country. The problem is that we have a Prime Minister who does not believe the rules apply to him—his own conduct says that—and who also finds it almost impossible to own up, take responsibility and admit that he might have been wrong. The Minister needs to explain to the House how the Government will overcome that.

I was very pleased to hear the news that three doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine appear to neutralise the new omicron variant, according to preliminary studies; this is very good news indeed. However, it underlines that we have to get more jabs in arms if we are going to make that at all effective.

How will the Government support the people who cannot work from home and who need to continue to go to their workplace? As we know, millions of people who we depend on every day to keep our nation running have continued to go to work throughout the pandemic.

Will the Government set a deadline by which they expect all children to receive their first dose of the vaccine? Will they be able to get them vaccinated over the Christmas period? What are the Government doing to drive up vaccination in areas where there has been low take-up? Are they offering additional support ahead of the winter?

We have discussed in the Chamber before that many critically ill NHS Covid patients are unvaccinated pregnant women. Why is there only one mention of pregnant women in the Government’s COVID-19 Response: Autumn and Winter Plan 2021? In the Whittington Hospital, of which I am a non-executive director, we have set up a room for pregnant women to deal with the issues they may have about vaccination. The Minister might look at that as one of the ways of dealing with this.

Finally, do the Government accept that, if they have not done enough to drive down infection rates by improving ventilation in public buildings such as schools, they must institute a programme of investment in ventilation in schools? This pandemic is clearly a long way from being over and we need our children to be protected.

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. The chaos to even get it heard in the Commons and the very late notice on whether we were having this or Monday’s Statement sum up the chaos that the Government find themselves in.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, outlined, the Government have once again lost the trust of the public. My first question is: how on earth will Ministers persuade people to follow these new, very important restrictions, with the chaos going on at the moment?

We understand that restrictions are disappointing but, from these Benches, we have always said we want people to remain safe. As for these proposals, we have said before and say again that we think the Government are once again late to move to plan B.

I note that the arrangements will remain until 5 January and that there is a sunset clause of 26 January. Please can we debate the regulations before they expire—preferably next week, before we rise for Christmas?

Today, there are 131 new cases of omicron, a rise of a third in one day, taking the UK to nearly 600 cases. This confirms that the doubling rate is between two and three days. Scientists are talking about an R rate of between 2 and 4 and it is also following the same rapid transmission trajectory seen in many other countries. Unfortunately, in the last 48 hours, we have seen that South Africa is now showing increasing hospital and critical care bed admissions, showing that, even if there is less likelihood of serious disease, there is still some serious disease.

Ministers are right to be concerned about superspreader events, which are being reported all over Europe. Assuming that doubling continues at this rate and with a million cases possibly by the end of the year, that is very worrying, as is the news of the lower immunity against omicron from the vaccine compared to delta.

Just this afternoon, Antonio Conte, head coach of Tottenham Hotspur, reported that eight of his first team members and five members of staff have tested positive ahead of a big European game. He said:

“The situation makes me very upset … It’s contagious and there is a big infection.”


He is right.

The Statement does not mention that there is a higher percentage of young children both contracting omicron and going into hospital in South Africa. What arrangements are being made to ensure that parents recognise that and understand the different symptoms that young children have?

From these Benches we have been urging the Government to move ahead with plan B since cases started rising steadily in September. Today, all cases—of whichever variant—still number over 51,000, with a further 161 deaths. It is vital that we make sure that those numbers do not go up.

Face masks are vital, especially with increased transmission. But do I understand the Minister to say that singing, which we already know is high risk for transmission, will be exempt? On what medical grounds is that sound? I understand that hospitality has exemptions too. Is this taking us back to when you could take your mask off if you were sitting at a table and eating, but had to wear one when you were moving around a pub, bar or restaurant?

Ventilation is vital. Can the Minister say how many schools have received the air filters they were promised a year ago?

I notice that we are moving now to lateral flow tests rather than isolation. Can the Minister say what the current percentage of false negatives is for lateral flow tests and how that is going to be managed?

It makes sense to follow both Scotland and Wales in asking people to work from home if they can. How is that likely to affect the working arrangements on the Parliamentary Estate, including your Lordships’ House? In particular, and as a minimum, should the House consider returning to remote voting to avoid noble Lords mixing together in large numbers? We know we have a large number of votes over the next few weeks.

There are also a large number of notable omissions from this Statement. The first is the difficult issue of social care and support for those in homes, or housebound, as well as the staff who look after them. I see that the Statement says that there will be information to follow.

The second is the lack of mention of the Covid app. Given that many people are saying that their third dose or booster dose information is still not being recorded properly, can the Minister say if these difficulties have been resolved? The consequences of having to have Covid certification will affect people from Friday.

Thirdly, there is not one word about the clinically extremely vulnerable: that is 3.7 million people, of whom 800,000 are severely clinically extremely vulnerable. Most of the larger group should have had their booster jabs by now, and should be reasonably protected, but can the Minister say yet if that is true of omicron, especially as no one will have had three doses of Pfizer?

I thank the Minister for arranging our meeting next week to discuss the problems that the severely clinically extremely vulnerable are facing. Doctors are already telling this group that they will have a less good and shorter-lived response—if any—to vaccines. Is there any data on vaccinations for this group and omicron?

Other problems remain, as the Minister will have seen from the responses to my tweet this morning. Many people are still finding that their GPs do not know they should have a third dose, because there is no register and their hospital consultants have not had time to write to every patient’s GP. The NHS app still is not recognising third doses. GPs are not sure if it should be eight weeks or 12 weeks between the third dose and the booster.

While the news about the antivirals and retrovirals is good, most CEV people do not want to catch Covid. So above all, following this Statement, where is the specific guidance to both groups who are alarmed by the high number of delta cases, the growing number of omicron cases, and the marked reluctance of people generally to follow mask guidance. This is not a “nice to have”. This is 5% of the population who risk severe disease or dying from Covid. Please can the Minister agree to advise this group in the same way that there will be advice for the social care sector?

Health and Care Bill

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 7th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I declare my interest as a non-executive member of a hospital trust in London; indeed, my chair is in the Chamber. I was also on a CCG for three years and it got absorbed into its local ICS, so I have lived this story, too.

I thank noble Lords for a debate that has done as much justice to this Bill as time has allowed. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, who is much too young to be a national treasure, if he does not mind me saying so. I also thank the outside organisations and the Library for the many briefs. Patient groups, royal colleges, regulators, trade unions, the EHRC, health charities, campaigns, and even a chocolate manufacturer, on behalf of the confectionery industry, and a large optician chain have a close interest in the Bill and have troubled to tell us so, and I thank them very much.

I particularly enjoyed the contribution from my noble friend Lord Howarth, linking, as he did, the arts and health and well-being. All I can say to my noble friend Lord Rooker is that I would not mind being on the prosecco experiment myself, particularly at this time of night. For my part, I intend to focus on the core of the Bill, the NHS reorganisation. The key questions about the Bill are surely these. What does it do for patients? How does it address health inequalities and the NHS workforce? Does it make things better or worse, or is it silent, and what can we do in this House to improve it to tackle those challenges? That is surely our job.

On the workforce, for example, my noble friend Lord Turnberg, the noble Lords, Lord Stevens, Lord Kakkar and Lord Patel, the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, and many others pointed to the fact that, without a plan and a comprehensive strategy that covers all the health and social care workforce, it is not possible to deliver better care for patients to address health inequalities, which is why amendments about the workforce will receive significant attention as we move forward.

Many of us were in the House during the passage of the Health and Social Care Act 2012, which was never fully implemented because it was a bit of a mess, if I may say so. I remember the tangled spaghetti of organograms resulting from the 2012 reforms. If the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, thinks that this one is worse, I dread to think what that would look like. Of course, we will have to untangle that.

As my noble friend Lady Merron said in her opening remarks, we are not convinced that this is the Bill that the NHS and social care need at this time. In 2017, the Government should have prepared a Bill that simply implemented changes to reverse the worst of the 2012 Act, stop the pointless bureaucracy and ease the implementation of the NHS long-term plans. However, we are no longer in 2017: we have been through the biggest public health disaster of modern times. We can be grateful for the huge strengths of our NHS, but the pandemic has also amplified the inequalities and serious flaws that need addressing.

I will give three examples of what we have to address in the Bill. We all understand that primary care provides the vast majority of NHS care and will play a more significant role in prevention, tackling health inequalities and supporting capacity issues in the hospital sector under the NHS Long-Term Plan. Therefore, it is vital that primary care has an input into the new integrated care partnerships, which will advise the integrated care boards, which are usually much smaller. The key point is that working towards genuinely integrated health and social care, focused on the needs of individuals, is not recognised in the Bill as it stands. For example, where is the role of health and well-being boards? They are stuck in some kind of floating structure, as the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, pointed out.

I turn to the second thing that is missing. We know that social enterprises and charities are vital in the delivery of health services. Social enterprises, for example, are delivering one-third of all community health services and two-thirds of all out-of-hours health services. They deliver care services, dentistry, mental health services, addiction treatment and many more services. They are a serious and significant part of local health systems. These organisations should not be left out of the decision-making processes.

My point is that we must find a way to do two things. We must ensure that these excellent providers of services are involved in the planning of services at ICS level. We must also ensure that the issue of social value is recognised. The NHS is committed to using social value within commissioning and procurement decisions. Unfortunately, the Bill does not include any reference to social value, which means that the new procurement system for the NHS may go against the grain of the rest of the public sector.

The third issue to address is integration and social care. While the Bill was in Committee in the Commons, we learned that, at some point, there is to be an integration White Paper, which certainly was not in the disappointing document that was launched last week. There is still no overall strategy or plan to address the immediate scandal of inadequate social care. Many in government do not appear to understand that social care is about not just the old and care homes but children and young people with disabilities, as the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, explained to us.

There is a 10-year vision in the paper launched last week, but it has no milestones, no targets, no strategy and not much funding. It has vague promises, and waters down the Care Act 2014, so we on these Benches will look carefully and critically at that part of the Bill. Let us not pretend: this is an NHS Bill and not yet a health and social care Bill. Surely our job is to make it into that.

Of the many briefings we received on the issue of health inequality, to which the Bill refers, I was struck by the one from the EHRC, which suggested that integrated care partnerships’ strategies should

“include an explicit focus on addressing inequalities in access to and outcomes from services, and that groups sharing protected characteristics”

should be

“fully consulted on their development … Integrated Care Partnerships are required to include representatives from social care and mental health to ensure parity of esteem and a genuine ‘whole system’ approach.”

My noble friend Lord Bradley, the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, and others have said this today.

In the Commons, the Government levelled criticism at my colleagues over their desire to put safeguards into the Bill and the Government’s desire to leave maximum latitude for local solutions. There is an irony here. The Government want to control appointments. They want to agree all the so-called flexibilities and not leave them to local planning at the moment. The Bill is far more top-down system management of the old school, so the Minister can expect some discussion around reconfiguration.

There are concerns about how the new bodies will be accountable. I join my noble friend Lady Morgan in a plea for clarity about this. How are the new bodies accountable and to whom? There is also nothing in the Bill at the moment about accountability to the public and patients.

We need to address issues about who can and should sit on boards that allocate the billions; about restrictions on deals with private providers, on which I am sure that my noble friends Lady Bakewell and Lady Chakrabarti will hold our feet to the flames; about making sure that procurement is done properly; about the new bodies being far more open and transparent than current ones; about respecting the whole NHS and social care workforce, not just doctors and nurses; about including children and safeguarding; about removing fragmentation between different flavours of provider bodies; about a genuine and active role for local authorities in preparation for real integration; and more. I fear we may be here for some time.

We on these Benches absolutely want the Bill to be amended to achieve the outcomes we all agree about—for example, the plea from the noble Baroness, Lady Blackwood, about innovation, and workforce rights, dealing with inequality, transparency, local design and population health. We want to work with our colleagues across the House to ensure that the Bill reflects all those things that we agree about.

The Commons had 21 sittings in Committee and did not even scrutinise the social care cap amendment and other government amendments inserted on Report and at Third Reading. We will have to do that too. I congratulate your Lordships’ House on giving the Minister a clear insight into the scrutiny we believe the Bill now deserves and will receive in the coming weeks. I congratulate him and the Bill team in anticipation of the efforts they will have to put into that. I look forward to the Delegated Powers Committee’s report. I also ask him to ensure that the House is given sufficient time in Committee and at the other stages to give the Bill the scrutiny and thought that our NHS and social care system deserve.

Health and Social Care

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Monday 6th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, I first declare my interest as a serving non-executive director on a local hospital board, which is in the register.

I thank the Minister for the Statement from Friday concerning the winter and the NHS. If the House will indulge me for a moment, I put on record what a pleasure and privilege it has been over these years to have had my honourable friend Jon Ashworth, former Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, as my boss. I welcome Wes Streeting MP to that position; his huge talent will challenge the health team in the Commons and keep them on their toes, I have no doubt, and I look forward to it.

Today, the Daily Telegraph carried a story saying that 10,000 hospital beds were taken up by patients waiting for home care. NHS Providers has done some research and warned that those beds are mostly currently occupied by elderly people who are medically fit to be discharged, but no care is available to look after them at home. The chief executive, Chris Hopson, said that hospitals are now having to deploy their own staff to take on care duties in the community in order to free up hospital beds.

The lack of social care surely lies at the heart of whether the NHS can cope with the winter pressures, deal with ambulances stacking up, tackle the backlog and deal with whatever Covid, and particularly the new variant, may throw at it. When Professor Stephen Powis, NHS National Medical Director, said:

“NHS staff have pulled out all the stops since the beginning of the pandemic, treating more than half a million Covid patients, while continuing to perform millions of checks, tests and treatments for non-Covid reasons”,


he could have added that they are exhausted and need our support and that of the Government to move forward.

We need to add in the fact that about one in 60 people in private households in England had Covid in the week to 27 November—up from one in 65 the previous week, according to the Office for National Statistics. One in 60 is the equivalent of almost 900,000 people. Although it is true that, thankfully, fewer people are hospitalised and even fewer are in ICU, that is still a significant number. But this rate of infection, with the new variant possibly being even more infectious, means that, apart from anything else, there will be a surge in people being off sick, including NHS and care staff.

It is too easy for the Government to say that the winter crisis and the huge waiting lists are simply the result of the challenges of Covid. The reality is that the entire health and social care system has been left dangerously exposed by this Government’s choices over the past 11 years. Before the pandemic, there were waiting lists of 4.5 million, staff shortages of 100,000 and social care vacancies of 112,000. This week, the National Audit Office starkly detailed that things are set to get even worse: waiting lists might double in the next three years.

Those NHS waiting lists stand at 6 million. Almost one in 10 people in England waits months, or even years, sometimes in serious pain and discomfort, because the Government have failed to get a grip on the crisis. Everyone understands that we are in the midst of a global pandemic that has placed the NHS under unprecedented pressure, but that does not excuse or explain why we went into the pandemic with NHS waiting lists already at record levels and with unprecedented staff shortages.

Of course, the investment described in the Statement is welcome, and the plan recognises the many challenges that the whole sector has faced over the past 18 months. Can the Minister say that the Statement is a credible plan to meet those enormous challenges? If it was a genuine plan to prepare for the winter, why did it arrive on 3 December? For example, I noticed that on one of the hottest days of the year, in August, people from GP practices, primary care networks and federations gathered to start to think creatively about managing their winter pressures in a session hosted by the NHS Confederation. When I served on a clinical commissioning group, we did our winter planning in June—it started in the early summer. The board on which I currently serve has been discussing winter pressures and our winter plans for months.

A serious plan to bring down waiting lists would have the workforce at its heart and would have clear targets and deadlines. A serious plan would recognise that, unless we focus on prevention, early intervention and fixing the social care crisis, there is no chance of bringing waiting lists down to the record low levels we saw under the previous Labour Government. A credible plan to tackle the NHS winter crisis—which was foreseeable and foreseen—would have been published long before 3 December. Without a serious strategy to build the health and social care workforce that we need, the plan is not a plan at all.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

I call the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, who is taking part remotely.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) (England) Regulations 2021

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Wednesday 1st December 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

I call the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. No? I call the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I was happy to wait for the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, to speak before me. I thank the Minister for introducing and explaining the content of these statutory instruments. As we discussed on Monday, the omicron variant is a sobering reminder that this pandemic is not over. I think we all agree that we need to act with speed to bolster our defences to keep the new variant at bay and to keep each other safe through the difficult winter period.

We on these Benches were critical of the Government’s slow response to the delta variant—slow to protect our borders, slow to act to reduce transmission in the community—so we welcome swifter action regarding this variant. It is right to be acting urgently given the seriousness of the threat. While it is sad to be debating these statutory instruments after the fact again, it is definitely an improvement on discussing them after Christmas or weeks later.

Turning to the regulations and starting with the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) (England) Regulations 2021—I still have a problem with all the numbers on these, but this is number 1340—as I said on Monday, it is right to reintroduce masks on public transport, in shops and other settings including banks, hairdressers and post offices for those who are not exempt. However, we believe this measure should never have been abandoned. While mask wearing in public spaces forms part of the Government’s plan B, as far as we are concerned it should have been part of plan A rather than an emergency measure, as should encouraging working from home.

Now we have the issue of building confidence for compliance in the new law. The guidance will be important. When will the guidance about wearing of face masks be issued? USDAW, for example, the shopworkers union —in fact, the union I was a member of when I worked for the Co-op—said:

“Shopworkers aren’t police officers and shouldn’t be expected to act like them. They’re key workers who have kept our country going during these tough times. They deserve our respect.”


I also congratulate my friend and Co-operative colleague Paul Gerrard, who was on “Good Morning Britain” yesterday. He said on Twitter:

“We’ll make sure customers know rules & we’ll help them to follow them but we won’t put colleagues at risk”.


The Co-op is a responsible retailer, as are most of our retailers, but they all need the Government’s support. Have the guidelines been issued yet and what are the Government’s plans to support retailers?

As I said, we think these regulations are too modest and will not provide the protection the Government have described. For example, you will wear your mask to go into the off-licence to get some booze, and then you will go to a party indoors where no one will be wearing a mask. If you attend the theatre, you may get a taxi to the theatre and will wear your mask, and in the theatre some of the people in the audience may be wearing a mask but some will not. Will the Minister explain the scientific justification for those differences?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

Sorry, was that offensive? I apologise for any offence caused to my noble friend. I just assumed that because I like teacakes, my noble friend also does.

I will start with some of the questions. On the question of how many people have been helped by some of these financial services, as of 17 November 2021, local authorities have reported 362,573 successful claims since the start of the scheme, totalling £181 million in test and trace support systems.

Despite the easing of the restrictions at step 4 of the road map, the Government have continued to recommend that face coverings are worn in crowded and enclosed spaces. We accept that there is wide support for reintroducing mandatory face coverings, but we have always tried to balance these issues. As I said in previous debates, we look at a number of factors, not only medical but economic and social. Also, within health itself, many mental health experts are very concerned that we might go for more lockdowns and about some of the measures that a number of noble Lords have mentioned.

As we saw in the debate, there are noble Lords who believe that we have gone too far and noble Lords who feel that we have not gone far enough unless we effectively enter a second lockdown. That shows the range of views here and the difficulty, as my noble friend, Lady Altmann, said, that the Government are damned if they do, damned if they do not, but we accept that.

So, do face masks actually work? This is where there is still a debate. I thank my noble friend Lady Noakes for pointing out the article by Professor Simon Wood, who is professor of statistics at the University of Edinburgh, in which he analysed the BMJ paper. It is in effect a meta-analysis. A number of newspapers have taken a line saying that wearing a mask cuts Covid by 53%. I encourage noble Lords to read the article, in which he takes apart the statistics as a statistician and looks at, as those who have done statistics will understand, whether we have a significant number of samples to make it statistically sound. In addition, Professor Naismith of Oxford University has been quoted as saying that

“the Scottish and English approach to masking, although formally different since July, has made no meaningful difference to delta.”

Once again we see that there is a whole range of views, but we have listened to those views. Because we do not yet know enough about this variant, we will continue to review the data. For example, some say that it is very mild in South Africa so we should not be overly concerned about it, but we also have to remember that South Africa has a different demographic in terms of younger people. We know that when the virus first struck it disproportionately affected older people—as my noble friend Lord Robathan said, people aged over 85. On the balance of the data at the moment, we believe that wearing face masks works but we have always been very careful to make sure that it is proportionate where we do it.

On the expiry of some of these measures, as the Prime Minister said on Saturday, all the provisions that have been voted on will be reviewed in three weeks. They are necessary and proportionate while we learn more. I refer to the economics Nobel laureate Friedrich Hayek, who talked about humans having limited knowledge. He talked about the conceit of knowledge. The way to understand a lot of complex problems is to allow the discovery process to take hold and to look at what we can learn from that process. We should be very careful not to imagine that we have total knowledge. What we have to do is assess it proportionately.

It is our hope that these regulations will no longer be necessary in three weeks’ time and that we can return to the system that we lived under last week, but in the event that we need more time to understand the effect of the variant, or that the data shows that we need to take a different approach that requires new regulations, the House will return to Parliament ahead of the Christmas Recess for a debate and vote on the regulations ahead of their coming into force.

On regulations expiring, the international travel regulations will expire at the end of 16 May 2022. The face covering regulations will expire, unless extended, at the end of 20 December 2021. The self-isolation regulations at the moment expire at the end of 24 March 2022, but we will continue to review the data. Almost daily the data is being reviewed and conversations are going on. We will also continue to review the data on the new variant and we hope to update Parliament on the review in the week commencing 13 December.

A number of noble Lords asked about facilities. We are told that setting up dedicated testing facilities at border entry points such as airports is logistically difficult at the moment, and risks delays to passenger journeys and operations. Given the turnaround for a PCR test, passengers would still have to travel to their home or the place they are staying and isolate there before receiving a result. The Government are taking a measured and proportionate response. We want to try to protect the UK from omicron while allowing continued safe travel.

A number of references were made to points made by Dr Jenny Harries. As the Prime Minster said, the guidance remains the same as the measures that were in place to fight delta. We have now brought in tougher measures, but we continue to take advice from a number of experts. Individual experts are free to give their viewpoint but we look at the balance—some of it medical, some of it clinical, but also economic and social factors—and getting that proportionate.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I need to ask the Minister about the fact that our most senior adviser on these matters gave advice that was then completely denied by No. 10 and the Government. That will at least cause confusion. It is not a question of balancing this and that; Jenny Harries was very clear in her advice about what she thought should happen. It was quite the opposite to what the Prime Minister said should happen. The Minister needs to acknowledge that that will cause confusion.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for raising the point, but it depends on how it is reported. The real issue here is that a number of different experts are advising. Of course, you can pick and choose which expert you decide to listen to. A few weeks ago, noble Lords were picking up on comments made by the NHS Confederation. That is not a scientific body, but noble Lords claimed that it showed that we need to lock down. It is very easy to pick and choose your experts, but we continue to listen to a wide range of experts.

One of the great things about science that we should remember is that there is no such thing as “the science says”. Science should remain contestable. Can you imagine if science was not contestable? We would still be saying, “You can’t challenge the notion that the solar system revolves around the earth.” Scientists challenged that, and that is how we advance knowledge. It is really important that we continue to contest. Scepticism is one of the most important factors in science to make sure we make progress. We will listen to a range of experts.

I ask those noble Lords who really want to lock down more, and who say that we not only have not done enough but should do more and lock people down, to look at the impact that has on people’s mental health and on our economy. I ask them to think about the wider impact and to remember that we are not in the same place we were a year ago. We have been absolutely clear that vaccines work and that the best thing we can do to get through this is to get vaccinated. It is not too late to get your first or second vaccine. I am grateful to noble Lords who have asked questions—

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

The Minister is now saying that there is absolutely no doubt about the science behind vaccinations. That is not a matter of opinion; there is no doubt about the need for vaccinations. He is straying into dangerous territory when he says that there is science on this side and science on that, because the Government have rightly said that vaccination is the way forward.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for agreeing with the Government’s line that vaccination is the most important way forward.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

The Minister is being patronising. We have always—always—supported the Government on vaccination; I am sorry that the Minister feels he needs to be sarcastic about that.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I apologise to the noble Baroness if I came across as sarcastic.

In terms of hospitality settings, quite rightly, as a number of noble Lords have said, even though we have mandated it in certain settings, it is being left to settings to decide. This is in line with property rights, but also something that people have been asking for—a number of noble Lords have asked “Why not just let the establishments themselves decide, so people can make a decision whether they go to somewhere where masks are mandated or somewhere where they are not mandated?” We are looking really hard at this and we want to make sure that we are proportionate. It could be that we find out that omicron is not that dangerous, but we have to make sure that we have the data and that we sequence it all. It could be that it affects us more in the UK that it would in South Africa because of the change in demographics. That is a really important point.

In terms of who is responsible for enforcement, the police and Transport for London officers have powers to issue fixed penalty notices for non-compliance with the regulations. They are using the four E’s in a proportionate way: engaging, explaining and encouraging before enforcement, just to remind people, if they can, to make sure that they wear a face mask.

The Health Secretary has also asked the JCVI to consider giving boosters to as wide a range of people as possible. If you are boosted, your response is likely to be stronger, so it is more vital than ever that we get our jabs.

On helping the rest of the world, the UK remains committed to donating 100 million doses by mid-2022. We are also extremely grateful to the South African Government; we have been talking to a number of partners, including South Africa directly, to make sure that we do not disincentivise other countries for doing the right thing by reporting the outbreak in the first place. We are doing all that we can.

I am trying to make sure that I answer all the questions; I apologise if I am not able to. My noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe asked about exemptions for children under the age of 11 and those unable to wear a face covering due to health, age, equality or disability reasons. In terms of the impact to the economy, we do not know the extent to which the variant escapes the vaccine, but as soon as we do, we will be able to make a better measure. We do not at the moment expect there to be significant economic disruption. We have said that we believe face coverings are effective at reducing transmission indoors. The recent UKHSA study suggests that all types of face coverings are, to some extent, effective, but we also welcome challenges to that data. The advice remains the same: we believe that, on balance, it is better to wear a face mask. Many noble Lords have agreed and disagreed with that, but we have to balance these things.

Proportionate measures remain in place in schools. Face coverings should now be worn in communal areas by older students and teachers. The Department for Education is looking at how we make sure that there are clear guidelines on that. We advise staff, visitors and pupils to wear face coverings in communal areas.

I turn to the point from the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, and that very personal case; it highlights—this should sober us up—those very powerful words that this is not over. We have said that consistently. It is not over. If we believed it was over, we would have removed all restrictions. It is highly likely, but not definite, that we may have to continue to get boosters. Just as we have an annual flu vaccine, we may in the future end up with an annual Covid vaccine, including looking at other strains.

We have said who is responsible. In answer to a point made by my noble friend Lord Cormack, may I suggest that he takes his point about continuous committees up with the Lord Speaker? That is not really in my remit as Minister for Health. My initial reaction is that it seems a good idea, but let us see what the Lord Speaker says.

I again thank all noble Lords for their contributions and for continuing to challenge. That is really important. I can assure my noble friend Lord Cormack that today I asked my department for a list of potential or forthcoming regulations so that we can lay them as early as possible, as my noble friend and other noble Lords suggested. I am grateful for the acknowledgement that we laid these regulations as quickly as we could, and I pledge that we will try to improve that as much as we can, I too, believe very strongly in procedure and the Government and the Executive being held to account. It is really important.

Ambulance Response Times

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Wednesday 1st December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, it seems clear that the problem is a symptom of system pressures and will require a whole-system approach to resolve it once and for all—Covid, social care packages to help with discharges and local factors, and the fragility of the NHS infrastructure going in to the pandemic. The Minister has explained some of the short-term emergency plans literally to save lives, but in the absence of an NHS workforce strategy, how will the Government produce a system-wide resolution of this matter?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a very important point: we should be looking at this in a systemic way. In fact, I did my PhD in a department of system science, where you look at problems in a holistic way—rather than analysing individual problems, you look at the whole system. We found odd unintended consequences. For example, a friend forgot his inhaler, could not get one from the chemist, could not get one from the A&E and, in the end, had to call out an ambulance. There are a number of times when ambulances are called out needlessly, and that is on top of the pressures we are already facing due to Covid. We are tackling the backlog, which, hopefully, will also reduce ambulance waiting times.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Monday 29th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement from today and for the Statement from Friday. I add my thanks to the scientists in South Africa for their prompt sharing of this information, as unwelcome as it may be.

We understand that scientists believe that it will take two to three weeks before they can establish whether the omicron Covid variant is more transmissible, causes more severe disease or can make vaccines less effective than was the case with delta, or all three. We support the Government’s strategy of tougher travel restrictions and mandatory face masks, as far as it goes. It seems that there is already real-world evidence from South Africa and Hong Kong that omicron is highly infectious, which begs the first question: why are the Government limiting the mandating of mask wearing to travel and to shops, and not extending it to indoor meetings and social events? Mask wearing is the single most effective public health measure in tackling Covid according to the first global study of its kind, which found that the measure was linked to a 53% fall in the incidence of the disease. As Dr David Nabarro said recently:

“We know that wearing a face mask reduces the risk. We know that maintaining physical distance reduces the risk. We know that hygiene by regular hand washing and coughing into your elbow reduces the risk. We should do it all, and we should not rely on any one intervention like vaccination on its own.”


On these Benches, we support taking swift action and the inclusion of new countries on the red list. We do not want a repeat of the inertia that saw the delta variant run rampant through the country and, as the Minister said, we must protect the progress that we have made. We welcome an increase in the availability of the booster jabs. The only question that I would ask him is about the capacity of the NHS to deliver the massive increase that the Government have reported today.

We support the move to PCR testing, but there are still holes in the testing programme. Ministers have not introduced pre-departure testing and there is little, if any, follow-up on PCR test results, so we need action on this if we are to take it seriously.

The Government could, of course, go further to keep people safe. Fixing sick pay, improving ventilation and properly utilising antivirals remain crucial to ensuring that we reduce the spread of this deadly disease. Do any of these feature in the Government’s plans?

I agreed with my right honourable friend the former Prime Minister Gordon Brown when he said:

“Whatever happens to this particular variant, we’ve got to realise our failure to vaccinate the rest of world … is going to come back to haunt us.”


He said that the new variant was a “wake up call” for rich nations with surplus vaccines. There seem to be surplus vaccines which will expire within the next month. How many vaccines in the UK will pass their use-by dates before Christmas, and will these be destroyed? I am afraid that Ministers have not met the commitments made at this summer’s G7 to roll out the vaccine to other parts of the globe. There is now sufficient vaccine to reach almost every adult in the world. I agree with the Minister that we need to play our part in ensuring that everyone around the globe has access to vaccines to stop the emergence of new variants.

This variant is indeed a wake-up call. The pandemic is not over. We need to act with speed to bolster our defences to keep the virus at bay. In that context, I ask the Minister about preparedness for new Covid variants in general. Both Clive Dix and Kate Bingham, former chairs of the Vaccine Taskforce, have expressed worries about our preparedness for dealing with new variants. Mr Dix has said of a paper that he sent to No. 10 in May:

“I wrote a very specific proposal on what we should put in place right now for the emergence of any new virus that escaped the vaccine.”


It seems that, thus far, No. 10 has not responded, so perhaps I can ask on Mr Dix’s behalf what the Government’s plan is for an escape variant? What is the plan for resistance for the future? The country needs to know. He suggested that a strategy should involve a co-ordinating team to seek out new vaccines and give the company involved a fast track to a swift trial, access to the data and regulatory approval in return for early access to vaccines. If that sounds familiar, it is exactly what the Government did at the start of the pandemic, and it needs to be repeated. Is this in the Government’s plan?

Reports from South Africa and other places indicate that the new infection seems to manifest itself with nausea, headaches, fatigue and a high pulse rate, but not the original and distinguishing features of loss of taste or smell, nor the headaches, sore throat, runny nose, fever and persistent cough which have been the most common in the delta variant. Will the NHS stick to the old symptom guide or will it update it to allow those running test and trace to recognise that they are not necessarily looking for things like loss of taste and smell but for other symptoms?

If the Government intend to report again in three weeks’ time, if not before, it takes us into the Recess, so I would like the Minister to ensure that colleagues will be briefed appropriately. On Saturday evening, the Secretary of State held a Zoom call to brief MPs about the new world that we now entering. I hope that the Minister will do the same for all Members of your Lordships’ House.

We must all be concerned that any spike in serious cases from this new variant could coincide with the NHS’s peak winter period, particularly given that the service is already at full stretch. We all want to enjoy Christmas but, most of all, we all want to stay safe.

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating today’s Statement. The World Health Organization and many globally respected scientists and doctors have been warning us that variants of Covid-19 might pose a serious risk, especially when a Government think that we are winning the war against the virus and that we can all afford to relax. Omicron reminds us that the battle is not won until it is won across the world. From these Benches, we also thank the South African scientists for their genome sequencing that has alerted the world, and I hope that the UK and the other G7 countries will offer them not just gratitude but countries in southern Africa more practical support.

I echo the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, about arrangements for international travel and test and trace. I also support her request for a briefing for Peers. For some bizarre reason, the Liberal Democrat MPs were not included in the MPs’ briefing. Please could the Minister make sure that we are included in any such meeting in the Lords.

In April, before the Minister was appointed, we warned Ministers that the Government were responding far too late to the reports of the delta variant in India. So we warn again. While the face mask mandate in shops and on public transport is welcome and well overdue, we are absolutely bemused that it excludes hospitality and that the advice to schools excludes classrooms. Professor Chris Whitty said in Saturday’s No. 10 press conference that when there is a risk we should go in hard, so can the Minister explain how the virus will be kept at bay in those indoor settings where masks are not required? Why is there no encouragement for people to work from home where possible? Trains and buses are crowded and unventilated. Risks will remain there too, even if lessened with masks.

I have said before that I am in the clinically extremely vulnerable group. I have had my third dose of the vaccine and now look forward to my fourth, or booster, dose. But many of those who should be getting the third dose still face a series of problems in the NHS about who should get it, as opposed to a booster, and how it is recorded. Indeed, today, in response to a Written Question to my honourable friend Daisy Cooper about the recording of a third dose, the Minister, Maggie Throup MP, replied:

“Work to assess the need to include boosters in the NHS COVID Pass is ongoing and we will provide a further update in due course”,


so even the records cannot distinguish. Can the Minister say when “in due course” is? I am afraid this is symptomatic of the way the clinically extremely vulnerable have been ignored and left to fend for themselves.

I will ask a question that I have asked the Minister’s predecessor repeatedly since June of this year. In May 2021, Jenny Harries left Public Health England to set up the UKHSA. For the preceding 12 months she had specific responsibility for co-ordinating all the different elements of Covid issues for the CEV and for shielding. When she left, no one was given that responsibility, and it was noticeable that all communications with CEV people and the different parts of the NHS on Covid just stopped when shielding stopped. Can the Minister tell us which senior person in the NHS has that managerial responsibility? It has been five months since I first asked and there are 3.7 million worried people still waiting for answers. It would be good to know which Minister has the responsibility to co-ordinate all Covid matters for the CEV or former shielders. This is important, because the last letter from the Secretary of State tells the CEV not to go into any environment where people have not been double-jabbed. There is no mention of boosters, and obviously no mention yet of omicron.

Is there a confirmed register that distinguishes between the CEV and the severely CEV? Unlike in Scotland, hospital consultants in England do not have access to individual patient records that GPs use or even to the Covid app data. Can the Minister say how NHS England will be able to communicate directly with eligible people if they do not have a register? Is there a specific communications plan to ensure that primary care, secondary care and the 119 vaccine helpline are fully aware of plans and processes for this group? Reports are coming back of blood cancer patients being told at vaccine centres that they do only boosters—there is no knowledge or understanding of the third dose.

I recognise that I am asking the Minister a large number of questions on the immunocompromised. I really do not expect answers to them today—written answers are always very welcome—but please will he agree to meet with me, Blood Cancer UK and the Anthony Nolan Trust to discuss these key questions, not least because we are now in a different situation, with the 3.7 million, which is 5% of the country, left in limbo?

As the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, said, it is too early to say whether omicron is more dangerous than delta or beta, or whether treatments such as Ronapreve and the current vaccines might not be as effective. The Government are right to be cautious. I echo her comments about Clive Dix, the former head of the Government’s Vaccine Taskforce. What plans are in place for vaccine development for an escape variant?

At a time when manufacturing is one of the key issues slowing down the delivery of vaccines worldwide, why is the Vaccine Manufacturing and Innovation Centre at Harwell, which has received in excess of £200 million of public funding via UK research and development, now up for sale, long before the pandemic is over? We still need its expertise. Selling off a publicly funded, not-for-profit organisation during the pandemic, if at all, seems, frankly, bizarre.

Finally, the Statement has a passing reference to test and trace domestically. It says:

“We have a much greater capacity for testing, enhanced ability for sequencing”.


Genome sequencing in the UK has been a real strength of UK science and has undoubtedly helped us considerably in this pandemic. But, in recent weeks, with the Government’s determination to open up and return to normality, test and trace has been scaled back, with reduced centres and reduced hours for those that remain open. Can the Minister say what plans there are to increase these back as needed? Are directors of public health and their local resilience forums receiving funding for the current omicron problem? It also appears that there is no Covid funding for them next year at the moment. If omicron is a viable variant, we must plan to fund them to keep these safety nets of test and trace in place, because without an effective test, trace and isolate system, including proper payments to those who need to isolate, we will not manage, let alone control, this virus. Defences are not defences when there are large holes in them.

NHS: Primary Care Surgeries

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Wednesday 24th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I am sure that we all want to pay tribute to the work of GPs, who are at the front line and, quite often, are the gateway to many services across the NHS and the wider healthcare system. It is important that we recognise some of the pressures they are under, but also work out how to help them and, indeed, patients. As I have said in the past, I will be a champion of patients and it is important that patients have access to their GPs, as a gateway to further services.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

Notwithstanding the fact that the Minister says that the NHS is not up for sale, would he care to speculate what would motivate an American health insurance company to buy into a UK primary care GP market? Was this procurement carried out under the Covid relaxation that allowed contracts to be awarded without competition, or the usual procurement regime?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I wish I could read the minds of those who bid to run these services, but I am afraid I will have to admit that I cannot. The contracts are awarded at the local level by CCGs. It is their decision and it would be inappropriate for the Government to intervene.

New Hospitals

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

Each of the building projects will be a new hospital that will deliver brand-new, state-of-the-art facilities. One thing that we must be careful of is that if we say, “Well, you can’t call that a new hospital, even though it is a new facility, because it’s on an existing site”, we do not create perverse incentives, where the local NHS or the local ICS says, “We mustn’t build it there, because we will be accused of not having a new hospital”. Surely what we should be focusing on is outcomes, not inputs, and the fact that we are delivering modern, digital hospitals for the future.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, leaving aside the dubious and overinflated claims of 40 new hospitals, many of which are, in reality, upgrades—as welcome as they are—I and others in the House raised with the Minister’s predecessor but one in 2019 that there was an alarming repairs and infrastructure crisis, which was then in the region of £3 billion. Could the Minister explain to the House which part and how much of the new hospitals programme will address the immediate and urgent matter of crumbling wards, sewer leaks in wards and old and dodgy kit?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

The noble Baroness will recognise that we need not only to build new hospitals but to upgrade existing infrastructure and this is all part of the capital programme. The decisions on individual hospitals and upgrades will be taken in local communities in consultation with clinicians and local ICSs.

NHS England: Waiting Lists

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Tuesday 16th November 2021 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Thornton]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to reduce NHS England waiting lists.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Kamall) (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for raising this. It is a top priority for the Government and for the NHS. This year we are providing a record amount of funding to the NHS, with an extra £34 billion. This includes £2 billion this year plus £8 billion over the next three years to step up activity to tackle long waiting lists for elective care and to transform elective services. This funding could deliver around 9 million more checks, scans and procedures.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. I figured that that was what he would say. It is not about how much the Government intend to put in but how it is being spent. That is particularly important in the absence of any workforce strategy. If the billions were directed immediately at investing in social care and care workers, for example, both domiciliary and care homes, how many beds does the Minister believe could be freed up in the next eight weeks? What effect would that have on the throughput for elective surgery and accident and emergency departments?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

When you look at the data on the waiting lists, what is interesting is that 75% of patients on the list do not require surgical treatment. Most actually require diagnostics. Some 80% of patients requiring surgical treatment could be treated without an overnight stay in hospital, and 20% of patients are waiting for either ophthalmology or orthopaedic services. That shows where you can target the spending to cut the waiting lists.