Disabled People: Independent Living

Debate between Baroness Thomas of Winchester and Lord Henley

Thursday 30th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thomas of Winchester]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to support independent living for disabled people of working age.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Henley)]

My Lords, the Government believe that individuals should have the opportunity to work and realise the benefit of stable employment where they can, enabling them to live independently and fulfil their potential. We are therefore working to join up the health system, the welfare system and society more widely so that we focus on the strengths of people with disabilities or health conditions and what they can do.

[Baroness Thomas of Winchester (LD)]

I very much welcome that reply. The most important thing is that the infrastructure—such as enough care support and accessible transport—is got right around the country. Disabled people must have enough support. I wonder whether the Minister’s department will now agree to conduct a cumulative impact assessment on current government policies, which shows their effect on disabled people. The Equality and Human Rights Commission has offered its support and this should be taken up.

Personal Independence Payment Regulations

Debate between Baroness Thomas of Winchester and Lord Henley

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the original policy intentions were set out quite clearly during the passage of the legislation. The noble Lord will remember that far better than I do. That was then set out in the legislation—and in secondary legislation. However, as he is aware, the Upper Tribunal made it clear that there was, as I think it put it, a lack of clarity in the regulations as we set them out. That is what, I hope, we put right in the regulations we laid a week or so ago and which come into effect tomorrow.

The noble Lord asked whether there would be further consultations on that. Obviously, my honourable friend the Minister for Disabled People and others within the department will continue to keep an open dialogue with all those involved to make sure that our policy intentions are correctly applied and that these things are dealt with as clearly as possible.

The noble Lord also doubted whether there was the appropriate parity between mental and physical conditions. He alleged that there was a lack of parity, which we want to achieve. I believe that there is parity because we are looking not at the conditions but at the overall needs of individuals. In other words, it is not some specific complaint that the individual suffers from but how it affects how they get on with their lives. That applies equally—hence the parity—to those with mental and physical conditions.

[Baroness Thomas of Winchester (LD)]

My Lords, it is quite clear that more clarity is needed. Why do the Government not use the powers they already have to prevent the decisions of the Upper Tribunal from having immediate legal effect? I also know that the Government are appealing the decision from the Upper Tribunal. Why do they not wait for the result of that appeal? What about claimants whose claims are only half way through the process? What about those who have an existing award and whose condition has not changed in any way, who will be reassessed very soon? Are they to have that award taken away? In general, this committee is very supportive of the DWP and I urge the Government to use the powers they have to not bring these regulations into force until there has been proper consultation on them.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, there would be considerable financial implications in allowing the decision of the Upper Tribunal to stand. It would not be right or proper for the department to do that. For that reason, we brought forward the new regulations and they come into effect tomorrow. We then referred those to SSAC and we have received its comments on them. My honourable friend the Minister for Disabled People responded to SSAC and no doubt SSAC will want to make that letter available in due course. We believe that we have achieved parity with the new regulations—but, as I said, we are more than happy to continue consultations in the usual manner.

Personal Independence Payments

Debate between Baroness Thomas of Winchester and Lord Henley

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, what the tribunal said was that there was some uncertainty in our regulations, despite the fact—I am sure the noble Baroness will remember this far better than I can, because I was not in this position at the time—that these matters were extensively debated during the passage of the Bill a year or so ago and agreed in Parliament. The tribunal said that there was uncertainty and we are trying to put that right.

The noble Baroness specifically referred to the example of people who are blind in comparison to those with psychological distress. That was a matter considered in one of the two cases that we are dealing with. Mental health conditions are more likely to fluctuate than conditions such as visual impairment or blindness, and people who cannot navigate due to a visual or cognitive impairment are more likely to have a higher level of need and therefore face higher costs. What we are seeking to do, quite simply, is amend the criteria to reinstate the distinction between those two groups, as was originally intended in the order. It is no more than that.

[Baroness Thomas of Winchester (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister said that this is quite simple. It is not quite simple. In both recent appeals, the Upper Tribunal considered the relevant PIP descriptors most carefully. Does the Minister accept that in the second case, which dealt with mobility, the judges took into account the Government’s own declaration that non-physical conditions, which surely must include “overwhelming psychological distress”, under descriptors 1.b. and 1.e. in the 2013 regulations, should be given the same recognition as physical ones? Why did the Government not consult disabled organisations before bringing in these amending regulations so that they could learn the true picture of what the changes would mean?

Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2017

Debate between Baroness Thomas of Winchester and Lord Henley

Tuesday 21st February 2017 Grand Committee

[Baroness Thomas of Winchester]

It was on the back page.

[Lord Henley]

I will have to write to the noble Baroness to assure her on that point.

I appreciate that the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, would prefer a greater and longer debate on freezing benefits. As I said, I do not think that this is either the time or the place.