Business of the House

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

This is an important issue. Although there are legal questions involved, I am not aware that the approach has changed at all. I would not wish it to change, nor do I believe that this Government would condone such a change.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Clinical commissioning groups in Worcestershire are recommending that their GPs refer patients not to Worcester and Redditch but to Birmingham because the waiting lists in Worcestershire are reaching unacceptable levels. Out-of-area referrals other than for clinical reasons are unacceptable and distort the system. May we have a debate on how, post-Lansley, management of the NHS as a national service is becoming increasingly difficult?

[Chris Grayling]

There will be Health questions on 13 October so the hon. Lady will have an opportunity to put that point directly to the Health Secretary. I believe that her party supported patient choice; whether it will do so in future, I do not know. It would be a retrograde step to go back to a position where people were not able to move to areas where waiting lists were shorter or treatments of a different kind were available.

English Votes on English Laws

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I will give way twice more, then I will sit down.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that he is muddling up process and substance? Process is one thing, but the substance is that he wishes to strengthen the Union—something I really agree with him about—by creating a division within a Parliament that is meant to represent the Union. In that sense, the proposal is half-baked. It is neither fish nor fowl, and he should go back to the drawing board.

[Chris Grayling]

The Labour party has a decision to take over the next few days on whether it will back these proposals or oppose them. It is now as near an English party as anything else. If Labour Members are going to go back to their constituents, who are undoubtedly saying the same thing as my constituents and my colleagues’ constituents, and say, “When we had the chance to give you fairness in the constitutional arrangements, we said no,” then bring it on.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Eagle]

I tried to ask the Leader of the House that question during his statement last week, but answer came there none. I agree with my hon. Friend’s interpretation.

[Ms Gisela Stuart]

Does my hon. Friend know whether the Leader of the House has consulted the Procedure Committee? My understanding is that the Conservative party manifesto proposal involved consulting that Committee before putting it to the House.

[Ms Eagle]

I have no knowledge of whether that is the case. However, I am sure we will hear from the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker). He can give us any answers, because he was there at the time.

Today’s debate is about process rather than content, so I will confine myself to observations of the process the Government have chosen to use. I note in passing that the Government have gone much further on English votes for English laws than the McKay commission suggested would be wise. They have not explained why they have chosen to do so, as my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) has just observed.

The McKay report contained serious warnings about the effect of creating an English veto, a double majority and two classes of MPs. The Government’s proposals ride roughshod over those warnings and instigate all three. They also extend the application of the rules to Finance Bills and create the extraordinary probability that a measure passed by a majority in both Houses can be vetoed by a minority. It is possible to concoct a procedural fix to introduce major constitutional change, as the Government have done, but my contention is that it is not wise to do so. In fact, it is a constitutional outrage.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con)]

Thank you for calling me to speak in this debate, Mr Speaker. It is my first speech in the new Parliament and I rejoin the fray in another highly charged debate in this Chamber.

First, may I say that the Leader of the House has met me on a number of occasions in the past six weeks to keep me informed of the Government’s proposals? The problem we have, which afflicts the whole House, is that at this moment we have no Select Committees. Not a single Select Committee is meeting yet, because the relevant orders have not been laid.

The politics of what we are debating today and what we will debate next week are for the Government and this House to decide. I very much want to focus on a few areas that the Procedure Committee will want to cover later in this Parliament. As I said, the Committee is yet to meet. I hope we will meet before we rise for the summer recess, but that is not guaranteed. I will be sending a letter, as the elected Chairman of the Procedure Committee, to the Leader of the House later this week.

[Ms Gisela Stuart]

Is it therefore not distinctly odd that the Leader of the House wishes to take great pride in sticking to his manifesto commitment, when that commitment said he would consult the Procedure Committee before he brought the proposals to the House? He is trying to bring the proposals to the House before the Committee has met.

[Mr Walker]

The pursuit of perfection is always to be desired, but it is not often achieved. That is the best answer I can give to the hon. Lady.

If the House votes for these changes next Wednesday, the Committee will want to consider how future Bills are drafted and whether their scope might be narrowed to enhance their Englishness. Will there be a temptation to narrow a Bill so that England comes to the fore and other parts of the Union are excluded? In due course, we will want to take evidence from Clerks and parliamentary counsel. In the last Parliament, there were some hard-won successes to make Report and programming more effective.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pete Wishart]

No, I will not.

We could do our own thing and decide what we want, English Members could decide what they want in their own Parliament, and Welsh Members could decide what they want. I see that the hon. Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) agrees with all that I am saying. What is wrong with it? We could then come together in the House to decide on important matters such as foreign affairs, defence, international relationships, the monarchy and the currency. That would resolve all the outstanding issues, and would deal with some of the unhappiness on these Benches, on the Government Benches, and on the Benches to my right. Why can we not do it? I will tell the House why we cannot. It is because English Members do not want to pursue a logical solution to a question that is deeply hard to answer.

[Ms Gisela Stuart]

I am interested in the hon. Gentleman’s argument about federalism. Germany is often cited as an example of a federal structure that works, but it did not work until Prussia was broken up. If one component of federalism is disproportionately larger than all the others, that imbalance cannot be overcome. I think that federalism in England may not be possible, given the current structure of the United Kingdom.

[Pete Wishart]

I say this to the hon. Lady: we will put up with it. We will deal with it. I know that it is difficult, but it is better than what we are securing now, because that is not working.

This places you, Mr Speaker, in the most unenviable, pernicious political situation—a situation that is almost intolerable. Given what was said by the Leader of the House, I think that you will be receiving your orders about certification from him. That is very much what seemed, from his remarks, to be intended. He will tell you what is English-only legislation, and you will have probably the most political role in the House. You will either have to stand up to the Leader of the House as he attempts to bully you, or you will have to—

Business of the House

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Thursday 11th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I also point out to the House that, in order to preserve the unique character of business questions, colleagues need to relate their questions to the business of the House for next week. That simply requires a Member, in pursuing the point of his or her choice, to remember to ask for a debate or a statement in the following week.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

May we have a debate in Government time on Lord Carter’s report on how £5 billion could be saved in the NHS between now and 2020, with particular reference to how, following the Lansley reforms, the Government would find it difficult to insist on value for money in foundation trusts?

[Chris Grayling]

We are grateful to Lord Carter for the work he has done in that report. The NHS faces significant financial challenges, and finding further efficiencies will be an important part of meeting them. The Health Secretary appears before the House regularly, and I expect that he will update the House in the near future on how he intends to respond to the report.

Business of the House

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Thursday 12th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Yes, it is my intention to give a valedictory response to the valedictory debate at the final valedictory moment of the Parliament. By the end of that, I think we will all be pretty confident we have said goodbye to each other.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

For the avoidance of doubt, I intend to be back here after 7 May—so there will be no valedictory speech from me.

There is an extraordinary mismatch between the amount of money raised by the licence fee and the BBC’s investment in the regions in which it is raised. May we have a debate on making it part of the charter negotiations that regional commissioners of programmes be matched to their areas, so that areas such as Birmingham and the midlands can get a fair share of the money raised?

[Mr Hague]

The hon. Lady raises two interesting points. First, it might be that some Members are giving valedictory speeches who do not know they are—but it is up to the electorate to determine that.

Secondly, on the BBC, I absolutely agree that investment in the regions is vital and that the BBC has a varied record over the past few decades of doing it. The Chairman of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee made a statement to the House a few weeks ago about the future funding of the BBC, so the House had a limited opportunity to consider the matter then. Realistically, further consideration will have to await the new Parliament, of which the hon. Lady might or might not be a Member.

Devolution (Implications for England)

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Yes, it is; I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. I absolutely agree with him. This issue, as he points out, has been discussed for many, many years—from the recommendations of the commission on strengthening Parliament in 2000 and for the last 14 years. Two of the three options we are putting forward have been discussed for many years—from 2000 and then again from 2008—while the other is based on a stronger version of the McKay recommendations. It is now time for us to make decisions about these issues and to do so in the coming months.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

I cannot help but wonder whether the once great Conservative and Unionist party understands its own notions of Unionism any more. It certainly does not understand federalism, although it is now drifting towards it and idealising it. Is the Leader of the House seriously saying that he wants to reform the way in which we vote in the House of Commons and leave the House of Lords untouched—or are we going to have English Lords for English laws?

[Mr Hague]

Personally, I have always been in favour of House of Lords reform—radical House of Lords reform—but I believe that linking that issue to this issue of the implications for devolution of England is a recipe for delaying it for a very long time. In fact, I suspect that that is why the Labour party wants to link this issue to reform of the upper House. It is, however, an issue that must be dealt with on its own merits.

Devolution and the Union

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Thursday 20th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

Now that the Scots have had their say, now that there is a London Mayor and a London Assembly, now that the Welsh have their Assembly, and now that Manchester is to get a metro mayor with new powers, people in the west midlands are asking, “What about the rest of us?” I want to argue that in this new era of devolution, the west midlands and other English regions should be granted a fairer share of public spending, as well as new powers and greater freedoms.

The truth is, first, that people in England clearly do not think that the current arrangements are fair. Secondly, the fact that our economy is so unbalanced—with business, finance, the professions and, as a result, growth and wealth concentrated so heavily in London and the south-east—shows that the arrangements do not work for most of Britain. Thirdly, there is clearly a crisis of trust in politics and government.

I think that changing one part of the system, as has happened so far, causes all sorts of problems elsewhere—tugging at one thread of our constitution risks unravelling the whole thing—which is why we need a proper constitutional convention to examine all these matters. The response to greater powers for Scotland is devolution to the English regions, with more decentralisation, more services being delivered and run by local communities, local councils and people themselves, and a fairer share of public spending.

In the west midlands, we have world-beating businesses, such as Jaguar Land Rover and JCB, and world-beating universities, but we have too many people out of work and we have real problems attracting investment for the new industries and jobs that we need to replace the ones we have lost. Output in the west midlands has lagged behind the national average since 1976. If output in the black country alone matched the national average, our economy would be £8 billion bigger. That shows that the current situation is not working for people in the west midlands.

I want the west midlands and other English regions to have wide-ranging new powers, and responsibility for public spending on strategic regional issues, such as regional transport, regional planning and regional economic development and skills. Public spending on services such as housing, regeneration and infrastructure—they are currently delivered in the region, but often by officials accountable to Whitehall—should be decided in the west midlands. I want a Minister for the west midlands with the same powers as the London Mayor, so that decisions that affect the people of the region are taken by people in the region.

I would decentralise further still. I want more services devolved to regional cities, towns and boroughs, and then to communities and individuals. Next, I want Departments moved out of London completely. Why not base the Department for Culture, Media and Sport in Manchester, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in East Anglia and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills in the west midlands?

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

I am very sympathetic to the idea of having a Minister for the west midlands, but why should such a Minister be appointed by a Westminster Prime Minister, while the Mayor of London, with the same powers, is elected by the people of London?

[Ian Austin]

We can look at all those arrangements, but at the very least we should start by having someone in the region who is responsible for all such powers. I must say—I would say this—that when I was the Minister for the region, I thought the arrangements worked quite well, but let me make a bit of progress.

Moving Departments wholesale to the regions would not just save the taxpayer a fortune, but would mean that civil servants were a lot closer to the communities that their decisions affect, that the economic impact of public spending and civil service jobs was spread more evenly across the country, and that pressure on public services and the overheated London property market was reduced.

We need a review of the way in which public spending is distributed, and a new system that guarantees fairness across the country. Official figures show that public spending is £8,498 per head in the west midlands, compared with £10,100 in Scotland, £10,800 in Northern Ireland, almost £10,000 in Wales and £9,000 in London. The national average is £8,788, so public spending is higher in the north-east, the north-west and Yorkshire and the Humber than in the west midlands.

I recently sent a detailed survey on all these issues to thousands of my constituents. The responses showed that there is huge support for dealing with decisions about England in a different way. Eight out of 10 people said that we need a new system. Two thirds of them supported the idea of having directly elected mayors, as my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) will be pleased to hear, who are responsible for greater powers in regions such as the west midlands, while just four out of 10 were in favour of having new English Ministers.

The clear point is that the vast majority of my constituents feel that if it is right for Scotland, right for Wales and right for London, then the 5 million people in the west midlands and its cities, towns and boroughs should also have a greater say over public spending and public services in their region. They are asking why people in Westminster who have never lived or worked in the west midlands should make decisions about our priorities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Let me pour a bit of oil on this heated debate and remind us of its title, “Devolution and the Union”. All of us bring to these debates some personal experience. For the first 18 years of my life, I lived in a federal state, not in a union. Those who talk about federalism need to be reminded of just what it means. I also spent 18 months on a constitutional convention, so I know what that means, too.

Let us consider three terms. First, what does devolution mean? No one could argue that Labour has not been the architect of genuine devolution within these British Isles. In many ways, the one piece of unfinished business has been devolution in England outside London. We must reflect on that, because we cannot have devolution in the constituent parts of the United Kingdom unless there has been proper devolution in the largest part of that United Kingdom.

The second issue, a puzzling one, arises when we talk about money. I think we have completely forgotten the purpose of transfer payments. The centre collects money in order to redistribute it to the regions according to need. That is the nature of our Union. It is not a vehicle for increasing separatism and it is not a vehicle for increasing special pleading: it is a vehicle of unity, a vehicle of bringing disparate parts together in a fair and proper manner.

The third issue is how our electorates in a United Kingdom and a Union relate to that. What I find really troubling about this whole debate is that those who are strong advocates for devolution sometimes use it as a means of breaking up the Union. If people do not want a Union and they want federalism, they should be clear about what that would mean. As a structure in which one part is disproportionately larger than the others, federalism does not work. People say, “Isn’t it great how Germany works as a federal state?”, but speaking as a German who grew up in Germany, let me remind the House that the only time federalism worked in Germany was after Prussia had been broken up. I would not recommend the Prussian model as one to follow. If people want to follow it, okay, but they should be very cautious.

Federalism in the UK would be deeply divisive. The rest of Europe looks at the model of the Union in the UK as something that this country got to a couple of hundred years before everybody else did, and they admire and envy us for having done so. I find it quite extraordinary that some are trying to go back on that. Let us remind ourselves that the transfer of money is in order to represent the United Kingdom as a Union—

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Stuart]

I am reluctant to do so. I found the hon. Gentleman’s speech irritating because he was so ill-tempered and ill-informed. If he promises to make an informed and well-tempered intervention, I will allow it.

[Mr MacNeil]

I promise the hon. Lady that if my speech appeared like that, it was because of the barracking and level of discourtesy I had to deal with from Labour Members. I apologise to her, and doubtless she would want to apologise for her colleagues. She talks of money transfers, so let me ask her in which direction she thinks these transfers are going.

[Ms Stuart]

When my children used to behave badly, they blamed their big brother, but it always takes two to pick a fight. I would have thought that the hon. Gentleman was too big and too grown up to be goaded by anyone, so let us come back to the transfer, which is what we are arguing about at this stage. It does not matter what we call it. I have to say that the impetuous behaviour of the Prime Minister after the referendum brought about much of this trouble, and I wish that he had been a little more grown up and reflective.

Arguments about money involve equal and fair distribution and democratic representation. Scotland had a referendum, for the second time in my lifetime. Some Members may be too young to remember the first referendum, but I do. This is the second occasion on which the Scottish people have spoken decisively on where they wish to be. There must come a point at which we must simply accept what the people have said.

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) that devolution in England outside London is unfinished business. I think that we must look much more closely at taxation powers for the city regions. Ultimately, however, when we argue about money, we should bear in mind the fact that it should be used as a mechanism to bring people together and to bring greater fairness. It should not be used as the divisive mechanism for which I think some Members are currently trying to argue, because that would be a very, very bad way of going about things.

Select Committee on Governance of the House

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Wednesday 10th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Some years ago the Victoria and Albert museum ran an advertising campaign that said, “An ace café with quite a nice museum attached.” In a sense, Parliament is not the first institution that has a core function, which is to be a legislative body, but also has access to the public. There is nothing new in the problem we face, which is to be not only inward looking but outward looking in reaching out. We just need to face up to that. The requirements for running the ace café and for running the museum are quite different, and we need to acknowledge that, particularly as we have huge restoration functions and greater access to the public. As Members have said, we have not run this House in the best possible way.

The second issue relates to legal advice and the fact that we are a legislative body. As a Member, there have been two occasions in which I have had to draw on legal advice. One was when I was representing this House at the Convention on the Future of Europe in Brussels. To the Foreign Office’s dismay—two Members of this House may remember this—I decided to take Mr Speaker’s legal counsel with me, because I thought that the advice I would receive would be a darn sight more wide-reaching. The second instance was as a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee when we held the inquiry into the extremely unfortunate death of Dr David Kelly. Those were events where we needed extremely deep and sensitive legal advice, which was very specific to this House.

First and foremost, we must remember that our function is as legislators. To be effective legislators, we must reach out. To reach out, this place must be run effectively and efficiently. The best thing we can do now is to draw a line under what has happened in the past and to stop sniping at Mr Speaker. If we do not accept his support and acknowledge his authority, this place will not function. The sooner we can move on with the Select Committee and arrive at a decision that allows us to move on in 2015 so this place can function going into the general election, the better.

Business of the House

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Thursday 13th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend asks a question with which Members across the House will sympathise. I am glad I can assure him that the widow and child of Drummer Lee Rigby will receive financial support, as do the families of all those who have died in the service of this country. That may include a widow’s pension, a bereavement grant, payments via the armed forces compensation scheme, a survivor’s guaranteed income payment and child payments. I hope that reassures my hon. Friend and others.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

On 3 July, I will be hosting a dinner at the Birmingham botanical gardens celebrating 60 years of continuous representation by women MPs of Birmingham, Edgbaston —a record not equalled by any other constituency in the country. May we have a debate in Government time on how all the political parties can promote greater participation by women, because we are still far from achieving parity?

[Mr Lansley]

I am glad that there is to be such an opportunity, and may I say, at the risk of flattering the hon. Lady overmuch, it is not just that Birmingham, Edgbaston has been represented by women but that it has been very ably represented? That will get me in trouble at the next election.

The hon. Lady makes a fair point. The subject has been discussed in business questions before and the shadow Leader of the House has rightly raised it. I hope that there will be opportunities for such a debate. Perhaps the Backbench Business Committee will consider it, if the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) and other Members invite the Committee to do so.

Business of the House

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Thursday 18th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. As he suggested, such cases are the responsibility of what is now the Financial Conduct Authority, and he will know that Martin Wheatley, the chief executive of the FCA, has exchanged correspondence on the matter with the Chair of the Treasury Select Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie). Those letters have been published on the parliamentary website. Mr Wheatley states:

“We currently have no plans to treat this as a prima facie case of mis-selling.”

In the case of the constituent of my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen), the FCA appears to cite the fact that the mortgages originated before such mortgages were included in the scope of regulation in 2004, and that to address the issue would require retrospective legislation. My hon. Friend will understand that we could consider that only in the most exceptional circumstances. However, I understand that the Bank of Ireland has waived early repayment charges for customers affected by the changes. That might mean that his constituents will be able to find a more competitive rate elsewhere.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

The new director-general of the BBC took up his post at the beginning of April. The BBC is of course independent of the Government, but is it not time to have a debate in Government time to remind the BBC of its regional responsibilities and of the fact that there should be some correlation between the licence fees raised in certain regions and the amount of programmes commissioned in those regions?

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Lady makes a point that I know is important to Members, and I do not know whether she had the chance to raise it with Ministers at Culture, Media and Sport questions a few minutes ago. I cannot at this stage promise any business in this Session—we are looking at business in the next one—but it would probably not be appropriate for the Government to raise the matter that she mentions, save, further on, as part of the debate leading to the renewal of the BBC’s charter. However, she might find opportunities elsewhere in the House to debate the issue.

Business of the House

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Thursday 28th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

As my hon. Friend will know, in the Queen’s Speech we committed ourselves to introducing the Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill. That Bill has now been introduced and is making its way through the other place. I hope it will come before this House before too long. The adjudicator will have strong powers to hold retailers to account if they have broken the code. He will be able to name and shame retailers and, if the Secretary of State agrees that it is necessary, to impose financial penalties.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

May we have a statement or debate on the Government’s proposed changes to secondary education and the reintroduction of O-levels? This week, there was a leak to the Daily Mail and we had an Opposition day debate in which we heard a lot about aspirations but very few details. Schools in Birmingham and elsewhere have a right to know precisely what the Government are planning to do.

[Sir George Young]

We had a good debate on O-levels on Tuesday, and if the hon. Lady looks at Hansard she will see that the resolution agreed by the House refers to the forthcoming consultation on the secondary school qualifications and curriculum framework. The point at which to have another debate would be once that consultation document is in the public domain. I would simply add that we inherited a situation in which far too many children were leaving primary school unable to write, read and add up properly. That was wholly unsustainable, and we have proposals to put it right.