Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. I absolutely join him in marking the 35th anniversary of the Penlee lifeboat tragedy and in sending our sympathies to all those families who were affected, but also to the local communities who were affected, as he has set out. I am sure everybody in this House would want to pay tribute to the Royal National Lifeboat Institution as well and the tireless work it does. As an island, it is important that we have that security and safety around our shores. The RNLI works tirelessly to protect people who, as he said, are in peril on the sea, and we pay tribute to it.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Q9. The Prime Minister knows that I and colleagues from all parties on both sides of the House are keen to guarantee the rights of some 3 million EU and European economic area citizens in this country at the earliest possible date. This will be the largest administrative task the Home Office has ever undertaken. Could I encourage her to look at the report produced by British Future, which has some very practical suggestions on how the Home Office can implement this, and could I possibly even encourage the Home Secretary to update us on any progress made?

[The Prime Minister]

I say to the hon. Lady that I am keen to ensure that we can protect the rights of EU citizens living here, but I am also keen that the rights of UK citizens who are living in the EU are protected as well. The Home Secretary, I think, is aware of the proposals that have been put forward and is looking at them very carefully.

European Council

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point about the quality of businesses that we have here in the United Kingdom. Rolls-Royce is one of those businesses that sets a fine example, including in the way it takes on apprentices. The way in which it has contributed to the growth of our economy is very important. I and all those involved in the negotiations will be listening to business. That work has already started and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union has already been holding those discussions. I have held a number of roundtables with business to hear their concerns from them. The overwhelming view that has come to me is that, given that we have taken the decision to leave the European Union, business wants to work with us to make sure that we make every success of the opportunities to us outside the EU.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

In her discussions with fellow European Council members, was the Prime Minister able to spell out that despite the complicated negotiations ahead it is quite clear that the British people expect the next general election in 2020 to represent the final vote and say on our immigration policy, the final vote and say on our trade policy and the final vote and say over UK laws?

[The Prime Minister]

I have said on a number of occasions that the vote to leave the European Union was a vote to ensure that we can have control over our budget, control over our laws and control over the rules on immigration that we set out.

Outcome of the EU Referendum

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I commend my hon. Friend for his work with the Polish community here in the United Kingdom and for furthering relations between Britain and Poland. I spoke to the Polish Prime Minister this afternoon to say how concerned I was about the terrible attacks that have taken place and reassure her that we were doing everything we could to protect Polish citizens in our country. Poland is a country that is very sad to see Britain leave the European Union because we are like-minded on so many issues, including open markets and enterprise, and the Atlanticist nature of the EU. We must make sure that we work for the strongest bilateral relationship between Britain and Poland in the years ahead.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

May I commend the Prime Minister for the way that he has accepted the verdict of a United Kingdom-wide referendum? The rest of the House should accept that verdict in the way he has. As for implementing it, will he tell the House whether he intends to replace our commissioner, and to set up a special unit at UKRep?

[The Prime Minister]

First, I congratulate the right hon. Lady on the role she played in the campaign as a very key spokesman for that side of the argument. I pay tribute to Lord Hill, who worked incredibly hard in the European Commission; I am very sad to see him go. We should try to seek a replacement, because the fact is that we are a full, contributing and paying member of this organisation until we leave, and we should therefore have a commissioner, although I am sure that will be a challenge. UKRep in Brussels is ably led by Sir Ivan Rogers, who I hope will remain in place and continue to give the excellent advice that he has given to Ministers to date.

European Council

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do not for one minute underestimate the frustrations and challenges of being a member of this organisation. The research that I have seen—perhaps I will write to my right hon. Friend with a copy of it—states that deep analysis of whether a country achieves its position shows that Britain does so in 90% of cases, which even, I think, outranks the Germans. I have seen for myself that when we work hard and form alliances, we can get things done.

The other point I make to my right hon. Friend is that if we are outside the single market, the same countries will write the rules, but without us. We will have to comply with them when we sell into Europe, but will have absolutely no say over what they are. That, to me, is the illusion of sovereignty, rather than real sovereignty.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

I accept the symbolism of removing the phrase “ever closer union”, but if we are to believe that it will have legal consequences, the Prime Minister owes it to the House to give at least one or two examples of where that was the sole legal basis for a decision.

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to write to the right hon. Lady with the details because those words have been used in a whole series of cases. That is why the point was so hard-fought.

UK-EU Renegotiation

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do not agree with that, because what we are actually doing is making sure that it is very clear that Britain is carved out of ever closer union. I think that is a real advance. Indeed, it is something that my right hon. Friend and other colleagues have been asking for, quite rightly, and which I have always believed is right. Our view about Europe is that we are not there for political union; we are there for co-operation, we are there for trade and we are there for working together on the things that matter.

Of course, these documents can change—this is all in draft—but one of the issues about ever closer union is that the European Union has actually gone further than I thought it would. I think colleagues will find it interesting that it has said

“the references to an ever closer union…do not offer a basis for extending the scope of any provision of the Treaties or of EU secondary legislation. They should not be used either to support an extensive interpretation of the competences of the Union or of the powers of its institutions as set out in the Treaties.”

That has never been said before in those ways. For those of us who care about ever closer union and about getting out of ever closer union, this actually goes a long way to achieving, in many ways, more than what we asked for.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

The European continent is seeing the largest flows of people and refugees since the end of world war two. The Balkans are becoming ever more volatile and our NATO partner Turkey is not behaving as helpfully as it could. Have any of the negotiations that the Prime Minister has been involved in increased the security of the European continent or the security of the United Kingdom?

[The Prime Minister]

I would argue that they have done both. When it comes to the security of the continent, we recognise that Europe’s external border, although it is not our external border because we are not in Schengen, matters. That is why we have sent more representatives to help the European Asylum Support Office than any other country and why we are happy to do even more, working with the Greeks and the Turks.

There is an important change in this deal that will increase the security of Britain. First, because we are not in Schengen, we do not have to let foreign nationals who come to other European countries into Britain, and long may that be the case. The key changes that the Home Secretary and I have managed to secure about protecting our immigration system from fraudsters, sham marriages, criminals and people who get married to European nationals to try to get into our country have become even more important. We are going to secure those, if this goes ahead, from within the EU.

EU Council

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, on what my right hon. Friend says about what Britain is doing in the EU to counter terrorist propaganda, we have taken the expertise that we have built up here and are sharing that with other European countries as we set up some new organisations. It is very important to win this battle of ideas—in some ways it is a battle of ideas, as we faced in the cold war. I am not sure I go all the way with him on what he said about “either television or newspapers”. As he said, television media have been responsible. I do not think it would be right to have some sort of blanket ban on showing any parts of these videos. Indeed, showing a part of these videos and just how ghastly and brutal this organisation is, for instance in the way it is using children, reminds everybody, not least those who might be tempted by this radical organisation, of just what a sick organisation it is. On the whole, the media have been fairly responsible about this, and I think it is much better to have that form of self-restraint than anything else.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister said in his statement that in relation to euro and non-euro countries he was looking for “no disadvantage, discrimination or additional costs”. That is a pretty low bar for ambition. Should he not be looking for equality and parity between euro countries and non-euro countries?

[The Prime Minister]

I think if we have non-discrimination, no disadvantage and no costs, that gives us the parity that we seek. I take people who do not think this is important back to the summer, when eurozone countries looked at using a European fund, to which we were a contributor, to help bail out Greece. To people who think this stuff does not matter, I say it absolutely does matter. It is vital, in order to protect the interests of taxpayers in euro-out countries, that we have these principles clearly written down and implemented.

ISIL in Syria

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me try to answer that as directly as possible, because it goes to the nub of the difficulty of this case. I do not think that we can separate the task of taking out the command and control of Daesh’s operations against the UK, France, Belgium and elsewhere from the task of degrading and destroying the so-called caliphate that it has created; the two are intricately linked. Indeed, as I argued before the House last week, as long as the so-called caliphate exists, it is a threat to us, not least because it is radicalising Muslims from around the world who are going to fight for that organisation and potentially then return to attack us.

On the right hon. Gentleman’s second question about ground troops, as I have explained, there are three parts to the argument. First, we must not underestimate the things we can do without ground troops. Secondly, although the ground troops that are there are not ideal and there are not as many of them as we would like, they are people we are working with and who we can work with more. Thirdly, the real plan is that as we get a transitional Government in Syria that can represent all the Syrian people, there will be more ground troops for us to work with to defeat Daesh and the caliphate, which will keep our country safe. I know that will take a long time and that it will be complex, but that is the strategy, and we need to start with the first step, which is going after these terrorists today.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

I think the Prime Minister has to acknowledge that the ground troops that we can work with will be absolutely essential for his long-term strategy. At the moment he has not shown to me that as we defeat ISIL, we will not simply create a vacuum into which Assad will move and we will be fighting another enemy. Just a final word—perhaps I give him some motherly advice—if he got up now and said, “Whoever does not walk with me through the Division Lobby is not a terrorist sympathiser”, he would improve his standing in this House enormously.

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to repeat what the hon. Lady said. As I have said, people who vote in either Division Lobby do so with honour. I could not have been clearer about that. If she is saying that there are not enough ground troops, she is right. If she is saying that they are not always in the right places, she is right. But the question for us is, should we act now in order to try to start to turn the tide?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

It is easy to be brief at this point, because I can honestly say that I agreed with every word of two speeches made by Labour Members. My right hon. Friends the Members for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) and for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) both made an extraordinary case in explaining why action was necessary, and also why inaction would be so difficult to defend.

The decision that we are being asked to make is particularly important in the light of the social media that now exist. Our email inboxes are full of messages saying, “Don’t do it.” I am relieved that I am being asked not to do it, because I would be deeply troubled if my inbox was full of gung-ho messages saying, “Go and get them.” We have come here to make an extremely careful judgment, and we can only ever make the judgment that is best at any one time.

There are many unanswered questions about the part of the world that we are discussing, and none of us can claim to know what the next steps will be. However, there are some things that we do know, and one of them is that just as actions have consequences, so does inaction. The danger for Governments is not knowing when not to act; given that it is always possible for them to act, they must always ask whether it is the right thing to do. The danger for Oppositions is in thinking that because they are in opposition, it is appropriate always to oppose. Occasionally it is right to do things, and occasionally it is right for an Opposition to support a Government, even when they do not entirely agree with a motion on the Order Paper.

I will support the motion tonight because it is good enough, and it is good enough for three reasons that are closely intertwined. We face a conflict with Daesh, because they are terrorists and bad people with, in my view, no redeeming features. We also face a potential civil war with Assad, and—this has not been mentioned so far—a very difficult conflict involving Turkey and Russia. However, the fact that the situation is complicated does not mean that we should not do anything.

Four things persuaded me that it was, on balance, better to do something than to do nothing. The starting point was the United Nations resolution, which was supremely important. Then there was the fact that our airstrikes are adding capacity, which will enhance the actions that we are already taking in Iraq. If we extend those actions to Syria, we will not only bring something to the table, but strengthen the coalition. As the motion rightly points out, we are looking at a political process. Anyone who has been involved in negotiations knows that military actions will not succeed on their own without a political process. The two go hand in hand, and each enhances the other. That political process will be vital.

There is one mistake that I hope we will not make again. We must not take our eye off the fact that we need functioning state institutions when we take military action. That was one of the errors that we made in Iraq. I hope that it will be different in Syria, because of the work that the Department for International Development is doing, and the work we are doing with the coalition to retain the state structures. We all know we cannot predict what will happen next, but we also know that, whatever happens next, we will be acting with our allies, because countries such as France are calling on us. If the situation had been reversed and the same thing had happened in London, and we asked France for help and it said no, we would have been appalled.

Finally, we have to answer the question: why now? Why do we not wait a few weeks? The dynamic changed when Russia entered the theatre, but most importantly, action is in the national interest, because Daesh’s ability to both operate in Syria and organise terrorist attacks on mainland Europe has increased tremendously. We must act now, because if we want to stop that war, this may not be the perfect first step, but at this stage, it is certainly the best first step that I am being asked to support.

National Security and Defence

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Because we want to operate both carriers and because of the great amount of equipment coming through in the Royal Navy, this defence review will see an increase in personnel in the Royal Navy of 400 people. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about the maritime patrol aircraft. We did have to take difficult decisions in 2010 to get rid of the black hole in the defence budget. The Nimrod project was over time and over budget, and it was not clear that we would have been able to get it back on track. We have therefore had a gap in that capability, but today’s announcement shows how we will fill it.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to a contingency plan that will allow 10,000 members of the armed forces to support the police in the case of a terrorist attack. How long will it take to train those military personnel to allow for interoperability, and will he revise his plans to cut police numbers? One without the other is nonsense.

G20 and Paris Attacks

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Tuesday 17th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently say to the House that I am conscious that there are many colleagues here who cannot be accused of underestimating their own expertise in these important matters, but nearly 60 Members still wish to contribute? If I am to have any chance of accommodating them all, they will all need to follow the rubric of brevity, now to be demonstrated to perfection by Gisela Stuart.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to a wider narrative explaining how he thinks Daesh can be defeated, and his insistence that that has to be done with our allies. Press reports this morning suggest that France has invoked the mutual defence clause in the Lisbon treaty for the first time. Will the Prime Minister explain what practical implications that may have for the United Kingdom and our co-operation?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for the fact that the hon. Lady raises this. It is not a clause that has been invoked before, as I understand it, so we are looking very carefully at exactly what it would involve. Standing back from the legalities, it is very clear: the French are our friends, our allies, our brothers and sisters and we should be with them. If there are things we can do to help them, I say we should.

European Council

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As I said in my statement, we need to achieve the best of both worlds in which we recognise the advantages of being in a reformed European Union while ensuring that this is a membership and a type of European Union that suit us. If we look at what has been achieved in the past, through maintaining our own currency and having a single market, we can see that that is the sort of approach we need for the future.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

It is now almost 12 years since I chaired a group examining the role of national Parliaments, which came up with the idea of a red card system. It is good to see some ideas being recycled. We also concluded that unless there was a mechanism whereby national Parliaments were co-ordinated—a kind of COSAC but without MEPs—any such system would be utterly meaningless. Will the Prime Minister tell us what negotiations he has had on the development of such networks?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Lady is absolutely right; it has taken far too long to get this sort of change in place. This is, however, exactly the sort of change that the British process of renegotiation and a referendum is putting squarely on the table. I shall look carefully at her suggestion as we go into the detailed phase of the negotiations to ensure that we get the right sort of deal.