Europe: Renegotiation

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Morgan of Ely

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement on the Government’s EU renegotiation. It is disappointing that the Prime Minister did not come to Parliament to report on the negotiations and that he made his speech in front of an external organisation.

The Prime Minister was right to say this morning that the decision on whether the United Kingdom remains a member of the European Union is the biggest decision this country will take for a generation. That is one of the reasons why we will be pushing for 16 and 17 year-olds to be given a vote in the referendum when the EU referendum Bill comes before this House next week.

We want to see Britain playing a full role in shaping a better Europe that offers jobs and hope to its young people, a Europe that stands together to face urgent security problems and a Europe that uses its collective strength in trade with the rest of the world. At last, we have heard, following repeated requests—not just from people in the United Kingdom, but from leaders throughout the European Union—what the Government are looking for in their renegotiation. I am sure that, for some on the government Benches, there will never be enough to satisfy them in their desire to leave the largest single market in the world. They will want to leave the EU irrespective of the costs to the people of this nation. They are willing the Prime Minister to fail and their only role will be to push the demands that they know cannot be met.

The agenda published today raises important issues, including some that were raised in Labour’s election manifesto earlier this year. It is interesting to note that there is very little in the Prime Minister’s request list about jobs and growth. It seems to us that one of the issues that Europe has been struggling with has been low growth and high unemployment. There does not seem to be anything in his letter to President Tusk—apart from his aim to reduce the regulatory burden, which is already under way—that addresses this issue. Will the Minister explain why this is the case?

Many workers throughout the land will be relieved to see that there is no attempt to water down the hard-won employment rights that have been agreed at the European level over the years. It will be useful to know whether the Minister thinks that there will be a need for a special EU summit meeting to agree the outcome of the renegotiation or whether it will be tagged on to a prescheduled Council meeting. If so, can the Minister confirm whether the earliest possible date for an agreement is the March Council meeting, which would make it almost impossible to hold the referendum in June next year? Does the Minister agree that while Europe is trying to cope with the largest refugee crisis that it has seen since the Second World War, the British negotiation will not be top of the in-tray of most leaders in EU member states?

I always find the Prime Minister’s talk of the need for sovereignty to be quite interesting. He is willing to flog our railways off to European nationalised companies, sell our water companies off to unaccountable hedge funds and allow the Chinese to run our nuclear power stations. Does the Minister find the double standards on the issue of sovereignty as startling as I do? Can the Minister also outline whether he thinks it would be fair and necessary for those who advocate withdrawal from the EU to set out clearly what the alternative relationship with our EU partners will look like? Can he address, specifically, the likely impact on jobs, trade, investment, employment rights, agriculture and the environment, to name just a few? Finally, can the Minister give an assurance that the Foreign Office will receive substantial protection in the forthcoming budget round and will have the staff resources necessary to navigate this difficult renegotiation?

We believe that the EU does need reform and must offer its people more hope for the future, but we believe that that is best achieved by Britain playing a leading role in the future of the EU. Our history is not the same as that of many other member states, and perhaps we never look at these issues through precisely the same eyes. However, noble Lords should be clear that Labour will be campaigning to remain in the EU and will argue for a Britain engaged with the world and using its power and influence to the maximum—not walking away from a partnership we have built over a period of 40 years.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, like the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, I welcome the Statement. I also had the good fortune—I think—to have been at the speech this morning. Having also read the letter, I feel as if I have read and seen the same thing three times, so at least there is consistency in the letter that, finally, we have seen. Members of your Lordships’ House called at Second Reading of the European Union Referendum Bill to see the letter at the same time that it was sent to President Tusk, so that is clearly very welcome.

There is probably nothing terribly surprising in the letter. When I was in Brussels at the end of September, people were saying, “Where is the letter? What does the Prime Minister want?”. Fellow leaders and members of the permanent representations in Brussels were told, “Look at the Bloomberg speech; look at the Conservative Party manifesto”. The Prime Minister was certainly very keen this morning to keep sending us back to his Bloomberg speech, as many of the issues that he raised in January 2013 have reappeared in the letter. Many of them appear to be very sensible: non-discrimination against non-eurozone countries is something that everyone in this country can welcome. The idea that the Prime Minister and the United Kingdom generally accept that there should not be a unilateral request for changes for the UK but that whatever we negotiate should benefit the European Union as a whole is clearly welcome. Several of the areas covered seem to be straightforward, and Liberal Democrats would not object to the requests or the issues for negotiation in terms of economic governance or competitiveness. Indeed, competitiveness and the digital single market are areas where we are already seeing progress on reform, even before we get to more formal renegotiation.

On the sovereignty side of things, although some of us might still quite like to be committed to ever-closer union, we recognise that the issue is totemic for some. However, for some of the Eurosceptics in another place, that already seems to be a bit of a problem in that they seem to think it does not really matter. One omission seems to be proportionality. There is a reference to subsidiarity, but can the Minister say whether the Government will also look at the issue of proportionality, which links with wider questions about the role of national parliaments?

Finally, there are questions on immigration and fairness of the system. Nobody favours abuse of the system, but can the noble Earl tell us what sort of abuses the Government seek to rectify? Can he clarify how the Government propose to address ECJ judgments that have widened the scope of free movement? I understand that he cannot get into the technicalities of negotiation, but from listening to the Prime Minister this morning and hearing the Statement, it is not wholly clear what is meant there.

I, along with other Liberal Democrats, very much look forward to campaigning with the Prime Minister to keep Britain in the European Union—which, if this renegotiation is satisfactory, I believe that he will be doing, and I hope that the noble Earl will be joining us.

European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Baroness Smith of Newnham and Baroness Morgan of Ely

Wednesday 28th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham]

My Lords, I am rather new to the process of legislation. This is the first time that I have been involved in the passage of a Bill. Until the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, spoke, I was thinking that perhaps I had slipped back to Second Reading, even though we are on the second group of amendments. I am slightly puzzled by hearing a whole set of reasons from people who are in favour of leaving or remaining. I hope that my intervention will be wholly objective. I do not claim that my Welsh is up to knowing whether “aros” is the right word, but will the Minister confirm that the Government have checked the translation, in addition to the work done by the Electoral Commission?

In response to Amendments 3 and 4, I find it bizarre that we are discussing whether “leave” or “remain” should be in alphabetical order. This is not an election between people; it is a referendum on a question. The Electoral Commission has undertaken a lot of consultation, we have been extensively briefed and the other place was extensively briefed. The Government have taken the Electoral Commission’s wording, and I suggest that these amendments are not helpful.

[Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab)]

My Lords, the Labour Party has consistently argued that we should follow the advice of the Electoral Commission on the question. It changed its mind on the question. It said that the previous question that came before the House was not adequate. It has tested this question, and that is why we support the current wording. It is worth noting that the Electoral Commission’s briefing states that when it tested the reverse order, which is being recommended in this amendment, participants felt it was a more leading question than if the words were put the other way round. We do not believe there is a need to change the order in the question.

I turn briefly to the Welsh language question. I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, and I could turn this into a Welsh language festival. I must stress that I do not expect the Minister to have a detailed understanding of the nuances of the Welsh language, but I suggest that she takes note of the recommendation made by the noble Lord.

I am a fluent Welsh speaker, as is the noble Lord, Lord Wigley. There are about half a million Welsh speakers in Wales. Interestingly, there are no daily Welsh newspapers and the difference between oral and written Welsh is quite significant—one is very formal, one very informal. On this issue I have consulted one of the top translators at the National Assembly for Wales and I have also looked at the Welsh language dictionary and confirm what the noble Lord has suggested: “aros” is more like “to stay” and “parhau”, “to remain”. If noble Lords want a direct translation, I suggest the noble Lord’s is more correct. I note from the briefing given by the Electoral Commission that alternative questions were tested as well—