Ministerial Code

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Tuesday 24th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

Yes, my Lords, these things are a matter of judgment. No one has referred to the fact that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has made a very strong apology for her actions.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I was disappointed with the Minister’s response to the noble Lord, Lord Butler of Brockwell, who sought to place this issue in the context of how the Government see their role. The Prime Minister has to understand—as Donald Trump has had to do—that his saying something does not make it true. In his introduction to the Ministerial Code in 2019, the Prime Minister was resolute that there would be no bullying. Yesterday, in the extraordinary letter to civil servants and Ministers, he repeated that there is no place for bullying. He may be the final arbiter, but in the first test that he had, he overruled an independent report into a senior Minister who urges the rest of us to uphold the rule of law. Perhaps I may ask him one specific question on this. Did the Prime Minister seek—albeit unsuccessfully—to have the final report watered down before it was officially presented to him?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I said in answer to an earlier question that I am not commenting on any part of the process. The Prime Minister’s conclusion was that the Home Secretary was not a bully. That does not mean that there were not difficult circumstances, which were brought out in Sir Alex’s report, or that bullying should not be something that we all take extraordinary seriously and combat.

Union Capability: Dunlop Review

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I have not had the time to read Sir John’s lecture. I said that the review would be published before the end of the year. It is important that we do not denigrate the substantive progress being made in the review of intergovernmental relations. I commend the devolved Administrations and the UK Government in the work going on there. It is very risky to claim that there is no co-operative work going on in this kingdom.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, can I take the Minister back to his first Answer? He said that Michael Gove had said that the review would be published before the end of the year. In fact, Michael Gove linked this review to the UK internal market Bill, which is currently going through the House, and said that it would be published before the Bill received Royal Assent. Most of us assumed that to mean that what is in that review will be helpful to our deliberations on the Bill, which has the devolution settlement at its heart, and most of us think that the Government have got this wrong. Would the review by the noble Lord, Lord Dunlop, not be a helpful way to get to the bottom of some of these issues and have a proper informed discussion? It could help us with that, so why do the Government not publish it now, while we are discussing these very issues in legislation in your Lordships’ House?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I have underlined the importance of the issues and said that the Government gave a Written Ministerial Statement recently about relations and transparency. The Government are determined to carry this work forward, so far as the UKIM Bill is concerned. I do not agree with the characterisation of it, and the Government will reintroduce Part 5 in the House of Commons.

Civil Servants: Public Procurement

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Thursday 29th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Viscount is referring to local government, but I shall repeat what I said at the start. I believe that we need probity at every level of the public service. He has raised an interesting point about necessity. The current position is obviously that normally, departments require staff to complete a declaration of interest form prior to working on any new procurement and to provide details of any new interest which arises during the course of a procurement. Departments should have appropriate safeguards in place to ensure conflicts are properly managed throughout the procurement. That is good practice and ought to be followed.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I have listened to the answers given by the noble Lord, Lord True, but I am not sure that he has really understood the depth of concern about this matter. There are two issues. One is that these contracts on Covid-19 for test and trace and PPE were vital to public safety and remain so, and the second is that millions and millions of pounds are involved. The noble Lord says that he is not going to refer to press speculation following the investigation by the Good Law Project, but I would say that it is a little more serious than that. I think he has to be clear that we need complete and total transparency on all of these contracts from the National Audit Office report, which we will see. Is there not a case for a public inquiry or a Select Committee inquiry on this issue as well?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, one of the delights of the United Kingdom is that the Government are not responsible for the actions of the Select Committees of either House of Parliament. So far as the NAO is concerned, I have already reminded the House that an inquiry is in progress.

House of Lords: Number of Members

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, as that question is about the Leader of the House, I think that she would have to address it herself. So far as the numbers are concerned, I dispute that there is any correlation between the size of the House and the respect in which it is held. I remember the very great respect in which the House was held before 1999.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, there is so much in what the Minister has said that it is hard to know where to start. First, his Answer to my noble friend Lord Grocott on what assessment has been made of the case for an upper limit was that no assessment has been made. On his point about the House having been larger, it was significantly larger pre-1999, with a large number of hereditary Peers, 92 of whom remain. On his comment about Prime Ministers making appointments, the fact remains that David Cameron, when Prime Minister, appointed more Peers per year than any other Prime Minister since 1958, when life peerages came in, with more for the governing party.

The Minister talks about the House needing to be refreshed, and he is absolutely right. However, if he wants to refresh the numbers in the House, why is it that, having lost over 30 Members from the Labour Benches since June 2017, nothing like that figure has replaced them to refresh our numbers, whereas there were huge numbers on the last list to refresh the Conservative Benches? If this House wants to reduce the numbers, it must be so that we can be effective and do the job that we are best at, not to play party-political games, which the leader of the Conservative Party, the Prime Minister, seems to want to do. He wants to play the numbers game and pack this House, because he thinks that the winner takes all.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 10th September 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Rennard (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, made an interesting speech and made points that the Minister might find hard to answer, but he did not make a case for this amendment. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris, made an argument in support of it because he wants there to be more Welsh MPs, even if this means more MPs in every other part of the UK. However, I doubt that this proposal would ever make it into a serious party manifesto.

The key question for the Minister is whether the Government accept the principles of the Burns committee and agree with the House of Lords, which wants to reduce the number of its Members. The amendment is clearly born out of frustration that the Prime Minister has just appointed more than 30 new Peers. Perhaps the Minister will explain why.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Norton, on his ingenuity in bringing this amendment forward. I describe it as an enabling amendment. He hit the nail on the head. He said that one reason was to try to get the Minister to justify why any House with a size of 800 should be deemed acceptable. It also allows us to discuss a very topical issue that has been in the news recently and which gives us all cause for concern: the increasing size of your Lordships’ House.

It is relevant to discuss this when we discuss the size of the House of Commons and boundaries, because we cannot look at one House in isolation. The two Houses function as a Parliament. What happens in one, and any changes to one, impact on the other. The two come together. I agree with the noble Lord. It is incredible that the Government were talking about reducing the size the House of Commons at the same time as increasing numbers were being appointed to this House.

At this point, I should say that I find it very difficult to speak without moving my arms. I feel like I am in the language lab when I was at school in the 1970s. If noble Lords hear occasional clicking, it is because my hands have hit the sides. I find the Dispatch Box easier than a Perspex box.

The role of a Member of Parliament is becoming increasingly demanding. I know that a number of former MPs are here today. When I was a Member of Parliament I used to say that my work was in thirds, but not of equal sizes. A third of it was my constituency casework and another was advocacy work for the constituency. I used those two-thirds to inform my parliamentary work. It sometimes strikes me that MPs are finding it harder and harder to carve out the time for that work in Parliament to debate and engage with legislation. That is why our relationship with the House of Commons is so important, because that is the work we focus on. It has rightly been said that we do not have the constituency work or advocacy work, but we have to focus on legislation in a different way from MPs because we are not informed by constituency casework.

To me, that role has always been a very serious point about how our parliamentary system functions effectively. The noble Baroness, Lady Deech, is quite right. She made her own point in some ways when she said that people dislike the House of Lords partly because of its size and partly because of our role on Brexit. People thought that the House of Lords was trying to block Brexit. It never did. All the House of Lords can do is make suggestions to the House of Commons for it to have the final say. In some ways, we are like an advisory body that can be helpful to any Government and the House of Commons.

The Government often misunderstand the relationship between the House of Lords and the House of Commons as being the relationship between the House of Lords and the Government. Drawing a distinction between the House of Commons and the Executive is very important. Our challenge and scrutiny role has a purpose: to be useful and a benefit to the elected House. That is sometimes not a benefit to the Government, but that is not our role, which is to be useful and a benefit to the elected House.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have received a request from the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, to speak after the Minister.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly. First, I make a plea to the Minister never to refer to this House as a part-time House. He half-corrected himself but this House often sits longer and later than the House of Commons. We are a full-time House. The only difference is that not all Members are full-time Members of your Lordships’ House; they have other interests and activities. We are a full-time House but not all our Members are full-time.

I want to make a couple of points. The Minister said that reform cannot be piecemeal because it must be considered. Reform can be both considered and piecemeal. Most reforms in British constitutional history have been quite gradual. That does not mean that they have not been considered; they have just taken a step-by-step approach, not the big bang approach. The Minister harked back to ducks and tabby cats; I would liken the House of Lords more to a tabby cat than to a duck.

The night in question, when the Minister and I had many discussions late into the night, went later than either of us wanted to be here in Parliament, but potentially the point the Minister is missing is that, after the conflicts that he referred to, both the 1911 and the 1949 Parliament Acts constrained how the House of Lords works. It is quite clear that we have an advisory role and that the House of Commons has primacy. We do not block legislation, we have no intention of blocking legislation and we have no remit or legitimacy to block legislation, but we have an opportunity and an obligation to advise the House of Commons on the basis of the information that we have.

On the Minister’s point about a Prime Minister needing to be able to appoint lots of Peers to get their legislation through, I am not aware of anything that Boris Johnson would have more difficulty with in the House of Commons than in the House of Lords. Even on the rule of law, I suspect that his colleagues in the House of Commons are not terribly happy with him, but that is not why he has appointed these 36 new Peers. It is nothing at all to do with legislation; it is a Prime Ministerial whim and a numbers game.

I am grateful for the Minister’s comments on the size of the House of Commons being 650 Members. There is something that we can agree entirely on.

[Lord True (Con)]

First, as I hope I indicated in my remarks, I accept the strictures of the noble Baroness on the phrase “part-time House”. It is a House whose expertise derives in part from the presence of people who are here part-time and bring us their expertise, which is a slightly long-winded way of saying the same thing. I think I said specifically that I would not want anyone to run away with that remark and say that that is what I think of your Lordships’ House. I revere it.

With that correction, I will not detain noble Lords further but I will bank the statement by the Leader of the Opposition that this House’s role is not to block legislation. We shall test those words in the coming weeks and months.

EU Trade Agreement

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Tuesday 8th September 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether a future trade agreement between the United Kingdom and European Union will be secured by 15 October; and what plans they have to ensure that the provisions of the Northern Ireland Protocol contained in the withdrawal agreement are upheld in the event that no such trade agreement is reached.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)]

My Lords, the eighth round of negotiations will begin in London today. An agreement is still possible, and we will continue to work hard in September to achieve it. We will also continue to work with the EU in the joint committee to resolve outstanding issues with the NI protocol. However, as a responsible Government, we cannot allow the peace process or the UK’s internal market to be inadvertently compromised by unintended consequences of the protocol.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, let us be clear here. The Government promised that they would deliver a first-rate deal with the EU when the transition period ended on 31 December. Yet on the very day the chief negotiator has taken his seat in the House of Lords, he rates the chances of a deal at 30% to 40%. What has gone wrong? We look forward to hearing from him when he speaks in this House.

Less than a year ago, the Prime Minister heralded the Northern Ireland protocol as a major political victory, which the noble Lord referred to. Now, as the Northern Ireland Executive are preparing for implementation, it has unforeseen consequences. Really? Was nobody paying attention at the time? Was nobody watching?

I have three questions for the noble Lord. Can he confirm that any clauses about Northern Ireland in the upcoming legislation will be fully consistent with the withdrawal agreement and the Good Friday agreement? Also, given the shock departure today of the head of the UK’s legal department, will the Government publish a precis of the legal advice and the opinion of the Attorney-General? Finally, seeking unilaterally to override a negotiated and signed treaty has serious implications for trust in us as a nation. Can the Minister tell the House—I am happy for him to write to me if he cannot—of any previous occasion when the UK Government have overridden a binding treaty that they have ratified?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, first, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Frost, as I can now call him, on his introduction and his outstanding service in the negotiations.

The noble Baroness asks why we have not yet reached a conclusion. In our judgment, the European Union has not been as constructive as it might have in the way the negotiations are conducted. I say to the noble Baroness and the House that I hope the legislation will be published imminently, and full time will be allowed in the House to debate the specific and important issues the noble Baroness has raised.

I will have to take advice on her point about legal opinions, and I will respond to her on that. As far as Mr Jones is concerned, the Government obviously respect his views and thank him for his service. But we are clear that we are acting fully in accordance with UK law and the UK’s constitutional norms. Without prolonging the answer, there are precedents, with which I will gladly provide the noble Baroness.

Intelligence and Security Committee: Russia Report

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Thursday 9th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

My Lords, I cannot comment to the House on the form, nature or exact timing of the publication of the report. I can tell the House that the committee will be constituted shortly.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has been quite clever with words. Of course the Government are not responsible for publishing the report, but they are responsible for setting up the Intelligence and Security Committee. It is hard to avoid the question of why the Government have dragged their feet on this. However, we welcome the announcement that we will see a Motion in Parliament next week. Can the Minister confirm, first, that the committee will be set up this week and, secondly, that there will be debates in both Houses, before Parliament rises, on the content of the report? The point that the noble Baroness, Lady Helic, made was very important. The Prime Minister has already seen this report and has been told that there is nothing in it that cannot be published. Why can he not publish the Government’s response immediately upon publication?

[Lord True]

My Lords, I repeat: let us see when the report is published and take course from there. The noble Baroness knows that not every aspect of moving towards agreeing the Select Committee’s composition is in the hands of the Prime Minister. He is statutorily required to consult, for example, the leader of the Opposition. I think we should all come together now, agree and welcome the fact that the committee is being constituted. It took at least five months the past two times the committee was constituted. It is a delicate matter and takes some time.

David Frost

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Tuesday 30th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

My Lords, I am glad to have that endorsement of Mr Frost from the other side of the river to the previous noble Lord. Her Majesty is the fount of all honour, but I fear that if my noble friend’s suggestion were followed, Mr Frost might find himself on the expulsion list of the noble Lord, Lord Grocott. Perhaps we should be satisfied by a simple life peerage.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, this is really quite extraordinary: a political appointment has been made into a Civil Service job. We have not seen the like of this before. I wonder whether the Minister has really considered both the practical and constitutional issues that this raises. As the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, said, the National Security Adviser is there to tell truth to power. We all fear that there is a concentration of power in Downing Street that does not like either challenge or scrutiny. Will the Minister confirm whether Mr Frost, when he comes into your Lordships’ House, will take the Conservative whip and be allowed to speak on security issues or EU negotiation issues?

[Lord True]

My Lords, I repeat what I said about speaking truth unto power. I assure the noble Baroness that Mr Frost will be supported by the normal substructure of government, which remains. We are talking here about one appointment. It is my understanding that he may be introduced as a Conservative Peer, but I cannot confirm that to your Lordships today.

Ministerial Code

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Thursday 12th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I first thank the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, for instigating today’s debate. I must admit, I had some concerns initially that it might end up being a narrow debate focused on one particular complaint. I am glad to see that my fears were unfounded; it has been a very wide-ranging debate, looking at issues such as the role of the Prime Minister, Ministers, civil servants and special advisers. I make particular reference here to the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham. I hope the Minister will be able to answer those questions today or put responses in the Library so that we can consider them.

As a former Minister, including at the Cabinet Office, I have always thought that the Ministerial Code is essential for the confidence it should give in four key areas, which have been touched on by the noble Lord, Lord Butler: the principle of collective responsibility in government; ensuring proper engagement with Parliament; reducing conflicts of interest; providing for the proper use of government resources. However, as it has developed and, as the noble Lord, Lord Butler, said, become a public document—against his advice—Professor Leighton Andrews at Cardiff University has identified the code as becoming a

“core document underpinning the UK’s unwritten constitution”.

But the code is only as good as its enforcement. Being found in breach of the code can be a sign of its effectiveness, but only if the sanctions are an effective punishment and deterrent. That, as we have heard, is dependent on the Prime Minister of the day. The foreword to the current version says that the code ensures Ministers

“uphold the very highest standards of propriety”.

That statement is by the Prime Minister, who was himself accused of failing to adhere to it after he resigned as Foreign Secretary and restarted his paid column in the Daily Telegraph too early.

Recently, as we have heard, the code has morphed into a document beyond its traditional remit, following misconduct allegations against the current Home Secretary, Priti Patel, the former Defence Secretary and former First Secretary of State. As the noble Lord, Lord Norton, touched on, when the 2019 code was published, the press comments from the Prime Minister were more about internal Cabinet discipline than the other issues in the code.

The most important change made in 2019 was the entirely new reference to harassment and inappropriate behaviour, which is a significant departure from the original purpose of the code. Disappointingly, given the nature of this change, there was no real discussion of whether this was the right vehicle to handle such issues. No new processes regarding transparency and accountability were included. It is that new section which has led to the inquiry into allegations against the Home Secretary following the recent resignation of Philip Rutnam. There are two issues here. First, as we have heard, the ultimate arbiter of what action, if any, will be taken is the Prime Minister, who has already been visible and vocal in his support for the Home Secretary. Secondly, there is no independent assessment of the inquiry and no understanding of what the appropriate sanctions are or would be.

Obviously, Prime Ministers can and do hire and fire Ministers at will. However, by bringing personal behaviour issues into the code without any clear guidance or independence, there is a now a much more difficult judgment to be made, particularly given that other issues in the code are much clearer regarding what is and is not appropriate. There is not the same kind of benchmark for personal behaviour issues.

As we have said, none of us can comment on the current inquiry or its outcome and I am not convinced that a breach of the code should lead to an update of it. It can be argued that if someone is found in breach of a code, that proves it works, if the sanctions are appropriate. However, it would be remarkable if the code was updated for a second time following the actions of one Minister. It brings to mind Oscar Wilde: to paraphrase, to be responsible for one new clause in the code would be unfortunate—two would be a scandal.

The relationship between Ministers and civil servants is multifaceted. I feel fortunate to have worked so often with some of the best. Civil servants deserve the respect and support of those they serve, as well as a proper outlet to bring forward any concerns.

The First Division Association has called for an independent complaints procedure to replace the current arrangements. The general secretary, Dave Penman, has correctly stated that civil servants need a clear process, independent of political interference, that has transparency and confidentiality at its core. I will support such a reform, and this debate today has provided very useful guidance for any Ministers considering what reforms are to be included.

Ministerial Code: Breaches

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Monday 2nd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for repeating the Statement, and for his measured delivery which has given me time to catch my breath after racing to the Chamber.

The events leading to this Statement are extraordinary and unprecedented. Sir Philip Rutnam’s resignation statement, that he had been the victim of a

“vicious and orchestrated briefing campaign”

by allies of the Home Secretary, followed by reports that he was offered, but refused, a substantial pay-off—presumably to leave quietly—illustrates alarming levels of dysfunction at the very heart of government. On Thursday, the noble Lord, Lord True, told the House:

“The current Prime Minister expects the highest standards of performance and behaviour from all his colleagues.”—[Official Report, 27/2/20; col. 278.]


That is quite right. I am sure that I am not alone in thinking it quite strange that, having initiated a Cabinet Office investigation into the facts regarding the Home Secretary’s behaviour, before it even gets going the Prime Minister states his full confidence in her, even describing her as “fantastic” and

“a superb Minister doing a great job.”

Can the Minister answer just two questions? First, can he confirm that the Cabinet Office investigation is into whether the Home Secretary has breached the Ministerial Code in this department or in any other? I appreciate that he cannot give details of investigations, but straightforward confirmation that it is into breaches of the Ministerial Code would be helpful. Secondly, if that code is proven to have been broken, what sanctions are available?