House of Lords: Party Balance

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I am not sure I entirely understand my noble friend’s point. However, I will say that new lists are a matter for the Prime Minister. The normal process is followed, as noble Lords will know, starting with retiring Prime Ministers making proposals. HOLAC, a very important committee, gives consideration to the probity of those appointments, and in due course the Prime Minister of the day makes recommendations to the sovereign. When we look at the composition of the House, it is necessary to keep in mind that any adjustments have to be compatible with our role in scrutinising and revising legislation, while respecting the primacy of the Commons and the associated conventions between the two Houses. These are important points.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, at last that was something I can agree with the Minister on. Does she accept that this House works best and does its best work when it is in balance? Her figures, I thought, were somewhat selective. When the Labour Party left government in 2010, after nearly 13 years, Labour was 29% of the entire House, and the Official Opposition—then the Conservative Party—was 26%. After 13 years of government, we had fairly balanced appointments. In the last 13 years, we have had the coalition Government and Conservative Governments. The Government are now 34% of this House and the Official Opposition has only 22%. Does that not indicate the unfairness in the appointment system? It is all very well saying that the leader of the Opposition gets nominations, but they only get those given to them by the Prime Minister. The Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Norton, wisely says that 20% of nominations to the House should be for the Cross Benches. Should there not be a similar balance between the Government and the Opposition?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

In a very fetching way, the noble Baroness raises some very important constitutional questions. When giving consideration to the composition of the House, we really do need to remember what its role is. It needs to take into account the ability to scrutinise and revise legislation which, I agree, includes the Opposition Benches but, of course, the Opposition Benches are not only the Labour Benches. It needs to take into account the results of the last general election and another statistic is that the Conservatives won 56% of the seats at the last general election. Finally, and I think this is very important, the quality of individuals put forward as Peers must be taken into account.

Cross-government Cost-cutting

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Wednesday 21st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, as I listened to the noble Lord, Lord Bird, I was reminded that on my desk is a form to renew my lapsed subscription to the Big Issue—I recommend it to colleagues; it is a lot easier than always paying for an individual copy. I was also reminded why he set it up in the first place. I recall talking to him as Charities and Third Sector Minister; I can tell him that I will leave this place and renew my subscription before Christmas.

The noble Lord said something that reminds us why that enterprise is so successful and why today’s debate is so important. His reference to the “miscarriage of common sense” is worth bearing in mind for future debates in your Lordships’ House and the work we do. He used the example of a woman about to lose her home, partly because life is too tough and too hard for her. All of us will know people who are finding life too tough and too hard at the moment; whether they are waiting for an appointment or on the phone trying to get through to somebody to fix something—for a workman, a health appointment or whatever it is—life is getting harder and harder and the costs are getting greater and greater. If we can return to dealing with these miscarriages of common sense, I think we can get ourselves to a much better place.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bird, for allowing us to have this debate. It is Christmas and, we hope, the season of good will. Other than legislation, this is the last proper debate of Parliament this year. I am grateful to him both for his tone and for introducing the issue and allowing us to have this debate.

I also thank my noble friend Lord Watson of Wyre Forest, and I am genuinely pleased to welcome him to your Lordships’ House. His speech today was really important. He mentioned an apology but, for me, what was really thoughtful and deep in his speech was his commitment; he said that he will dedicate himself and do these things to make sure that these issues can be addressed. That is a marker of the man that he is. I have worked for him for many years, and I think he has shown today why he will be an asset to your Lordships’ House. I thank him for his speech.

Other speeches today have touched on crucial issues. In terms of the cuts we are seeing at the moment, the noble Lord, Lord Rees of Ludlow, emphasised the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, and the noble Lord, Lord Bird, has mentioned them many times before. We talk about efficiency savings, but I have been hearing about them from this Government for so long that I wonder whether there are any savings left to be made, and why it went so wrong the first, second and third times that we are still trying to make efficiency savings. Building on the contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, the noble Lord, Lord Rees of Ludlow, said that they are too drastic to be efficiency savings and are in fact harmful.

The noble Lord, Lord Bird, has made the point many times before that spending cuts are not wise if the damage done is greater than the savings made. That should be our starting point; it brings us back to the point about common sense that he made at the start of his speech. If the effect of saving money is just to push the costs further along—the noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, is frowning at me; perhaps if he had been here for the rest of the debate, when other noble Lords were speaking, he would understand the points I am making—so that the costs are borne by others and have a greater social and financial impact, it is not really a saving. All of us want to see the best value for money we can get. Nobody is against genuine efficiency savings, but there comes a time when cutting into the bone is damaging to society and to our finances altogether.

We have had short speeches in this debate, and I think they have been all the more powerful for that. It remains for me only to say that I wish the whole House, our colleagues, the staff and everyone here a very merry Christmas, and again thank the noble Lord for the opportunity to have this debate today.

Boardman Report

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I take a rather different view. I think that think tanks advance democratic engagement by advancing ideas and policies, and they go up and down in time in terms of influence, as I am sure the noble Lord will acknowledge. There is no legal requirement for think tanks to reveal their funders, and it would be a disproportionate intrusion on civil society to require that of them. We are talking about charities and research institutes. It is important that people are able to bring forward their views on all sides of the political spectrum. Some are influential, some less influential. I think that helps our civic strength.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I have listened carefully to the Minister. I want to be clear from the start that I think lobbying is a legitimate democratic activity. When we are lobbied on policy issues on legislation, as all of us will be, whether by charities, trade unions, campaign groups or trade associations, we know who they are, why they are lobbying us, because that is their reason for being, and who is paying. When companies or so-called institutes are established and set up in order to lobby on a range of issues, none of that information is available in the same way. Transparency is essential to avoid any suggestion of corruption or inappropriate contact with Ministers or parliamentarians. The Minister will be aware that a succession of scandals have taken place around this issue that have caused concern to the public and impacted trust in Parliament as well as in the organisations. Will the Government accept that the lobbying of government must be transparent and that the funding of lobbyists must be transparent and properly regulated if we are going to restore public trust in a process that I believe is helpful to Parliament?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I am glad we are agreed that lobbying is part of legitimate policy development. Of course, we have the lobbying Act, which is in the process of being reviewed, notably by the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee in the other House. We also have various transparency mechanisms, such as the publication of ministerial transparency returns—we have just put out a whole load more—the register of consultant lobbyists and the Freedom of Information Act 2000. There is always a fine line between regulating to death and ensuring that we inhibit inappropriate behaviour.

Independent Adviser on Ministerial Interests

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I do wonder how many times Ministers can tell us that this is such an important issue and that it is a priority without appointing anyone. There is a queue of outstanding, incomplete investigations at present, and the Government have already had to draft someone in to investigate the alleged behaviour of the Deputy Prime Minister in a separate process. What are the estimated costs of this delay? King’s Counsels will not come cheap for such an investigation. Why does the Minister think candidates are refusing even to consider taking this appointment up? I understand that several have been approached. Could there be a problem with the Government’s definition of independence, which appears different from that of the rest of us?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

The noble Baroness refers to the cost of the King’s Counsel hired to help on the Raab inquiry; it is obviously the usual process that costs will be accounted for in the Cabinet Office annual report and accounts. However, I understand that in the other place my honourable friend Minister Burghart has committed to write on the issue and I will ensure that this letter is shared with the noble Baroness. Could she remind me of her second point?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

It was only a couple of seconds ago. Why does she think good candidates are refusing to take up the position? Could it be to do with the Government’s definition of independence?

House of Lords (Peerage Nominations) Bill [HL]

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 18th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Norton, for his persistence in bringing forward today’s Bill. We have debated in this place and on air the principles that we have been discussing today. We are broadly in agreement on where we are seeking to get to, with occasional differences on the right way to achieve that. The noble Lord does the House a service by bringing the Bill forward.

The debate has reflected the pride taken by active Members of your Lordships’ House in the work that we do. A comment was made, I think by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, that, when we hear criticisms of this place, it is not about that we do but often about the appointments system and how people get here in the first place. So our concern about the appointments system is that it is currently inadequate to protect the reputation of the House and, thereby, inadequate to protect the credibility of the work that we undertake.

There were some misconceptions about the Bill during the debate. It tries to achieve the balance between the right of a Prime Minister to appoint appropriate people and that right not being completely unfettered. We have already heard reference by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, to the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, on Wednesday—which we all laughed at, but with a sense of sorrow at the same time.

I say at the outset that criticism of the process is not a criticism of those charged with managing the process. They can work only within the parameters of their remit. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, has himself indicated his concerns as chair about the limitations placed on HOLAC, as did the previous chair, the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar.

There are very few in this House who do not consider that reform is needed. We may differ on some of the details, but there is widespread consensus on the size of the House—it is too large—and that all Members should contribute to the work of the House. On the concern raised that there is no way of removing someone who does not contribute, I reassure noble Lords that, if someone does not contribute to the work of the House in a Session that lasts more than six months, they are automatically retired from this place.

Many of us would like to see reform of HOLAC. I think this is the first time in history that we have had a House of Lords that is seeking reform and a Government who are blocking it. This Bill deals with one area that I have referenced—a key one, as the noble Lord, Lord Norton, said—and that is the reform of HOLAC. I agree in principle that increasing the authority and independence of HOLAC would be a good thing for the appointments process and something that we could support. It makes sense to judge potential appointments against basic criteria. Whether we have the criteria right is a matter that we can discuss, but to have the basic criteria that there is a reason and purpose for how someone will contribute is good. There is also, certainly, a logic in putting the committee on a statutory basis. For me, it is mainly that it gives the committee the right to request and receive information in order to make an appropriate judgment.

I do have some reservations and consider that the Bill would benefit from improvement. I understand the point that at least 20% of Members must be independent, but other than no party having an absolute majority, there are no other recommendations, no guidance and no protection of other groups. Currently, 20% or more seats are guaranteed for the Cross-Benchers, unaligned and independents. The Cross-Benchers make up around 22% or 23% If you include non-aligned Members with them, the figure is around 28%. There has been an increasing propensity for a Prime Minister to appoint non-aligned Members of the House. It is an unusual concept, but it has happened and is likely to happen again. That will affect the proportion of Cross-Benchers in your Lordships’ House.

So there is also a case for looking at other groups. There could be a case—I say this with a smile on my face and hope that noble Lords will accept it—for protecting the size of the Official Opposition of your Lordships’ House. Our appointments in recent years have been significantly less than those of the Government. Looking at the numbers, I believe there have been more Peers appointed to come in as Ministers on the Government side than the entire Front Bench of the Official Opposition. That seems to me the kind of inconsistency that ought to be addressed if we are looking at the size of the House.

I want to make two points on Clause 3(4), which looks at the appointments made by an incoming Prime Minister. It is not just the appointments of an incoming Prime Minister that we need to look at but the appointments made by Prime Ministers while they are in post. To me, this is partly about the culture of your Lordships’ House. It is only 12 years since I came here but the House was much more discursive then, with Ministers making an argument to try to win support for their case. Now, with the large number of appointments, as the leaked Lynton Crosby report makes clear, the idea is: “Put lots more Peers in so we can’t lose a vote.” It is as if the Government can bludgeon their way through legislation through sheer numbers. That does not give the House its best reputation or let it do its best work. If we are reducing the size of the House, we ought to look at that issue in the round and have a more discursive approach so that Ministers can take the advice of the House and perhaps come back with amendments of their own.

We should not just look at this in terms of incoming Prime Ministers; what about Resignation Honours Lists for outgoing Prime Ministers? Noble Lords have already expressed disapproval of that along with the other new concept of deferred peerages. It seems a very strange way to behave to say, “We can put this in the bag for later and you don’t have to accept it now. You can give up at the next election.” That is not a reasonable or sensible way to behave.

It is perfectly reasonable for a Prime Minister to reward and honour those they consider have been especially helpful, above and beyond the call of duty, in their work as Prime Minister. My question, which I think we should consider, is whether that has to confer a peerage for life and a place in the legislature. There are other titles and honours—even a thank-you letter—but it is hard to justify a permanent place in the legislature.

Regarding commission membership, the Bill says how many members it should have and how they would be nominated but there are no criteria for what skills, qualifications or expertise would be required, so the role of the commission would be enhanced but we are not looking at how to select its membership.

Turning to Clause 7, and an important point, it is difficult to look at the issue of diversity if you are dealing only with recommendations that have come forward from political parties and the Prime Minister. Appointments should be more diverse but we should think about whether HOLAC could achieve that or whether there is some other way; I am not clear about that.

On Clause 9, I agree that party leaders who nominate through the Prime Minister should be called upon to justify their appointments. Where I part company with the noble Lord—I think the Bill needs some amendment here, and I have discussed this with him—is that I do not think it is the role of the commission to make a judgment on the processes or procedures that political parties choose to make their nominations. It is entirely right to ask for justifications and reasons, a point partly made by the noble Lord, Lord Balfe. When the honours list lists who has OBEs and MBEs, there is a citation saying what the person has done, but we have nothing like that for Members of this House. That is something we should look at. There should be greater transparency, not just to HOLAC but to the public as a whole.

In recent years, as I have mentioned, there have been a number of appointments as Ministers in recent years. It is quite reasonable for a Prime Minister to want to enhance a Front Bench if they feel they do not have, even among the numbers that the government party has, people who can serve as Ministers. However, I question whether they should be able to serve as a Minister for the rest of their life. The shortest term that a Minister has served, having been brought in as Minister with a peerage, is only nine days. Maybe nine days of ministerial office should not qualify for a lifetime peerage.

Lastly, we should give more information to the public about those appointed to peerages. This is a point that others have also made: I would like to see some post-appointment assessment, perhaps after two or three years in your Lordships’ House. There are some people who have been appointed who I have never seen in this Chamber, and I do not know how we justify them remaining in the House. Some kind of sensible and measured post-appointment assessment could be looked at.

The Bill deserves a Second Reading and I hope to discuss some of these matters in Committee. Again, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Norton, for his contribution.

Parliament: Deferred Peerages

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I will start by saying that we do not comment on leaks and rumours—but I agree that it is a core constitutional principle that the monarch is never drawn into party politics. I think we all very much agree on that. As far as individual proposals and speculations are concerned, no list has been confirmed and I will not go any further in adding to the speculation.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, it is one thing, as the Minister says, when someone, for personal reasons, genuinely cannot take up a seat in the House of Lords that they have been awarded, but will she recognise that it is completely unacceptable, if the rumours are true, to create a situation where four Members of Parliament hang onto their seats in the other place but can jump into this House at a time of their choosing, or at a time that is more convenient for their political party? The Prime Minister could stop this in its tracks: will he?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I do not think I can add to what I have said already. It is very important not to believe what you read in the newspapers; sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. A list has not been confirmed, and it is not appropriate or fair for the Government to speculate—or encourage speculation—on names that may or may not have been nominated or vetted. We need to be fair to those being considered.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

It is for the Prime Minister of the day to advise the sovereign on proposals for peerages, as the noble Lord has said. If the House will bear with me, I could mention two obvious precedents if that would be helpful. One was my noble friend Lady Davidson of Lundin Links—

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

She was not an MP.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

She was an MSP—but the point is that she was nominated in Boris Johnson’s Dissolution List of 31 July 2020 and her Letters Patent, to respond to the noble Lord, were issued on 16 July 2021. She was introduced to the House later that month.

Ministers: Government Business

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

Good. The Government take matters of security very seriously. Of course, I am not going to comment on individual cases—that would not be appropriate—but I draw attention to the fact that the Home Secretary has provided a very detailed account, step by step, in a very full letter to the Home Affairs Select Committee and, of course, she apologised for her error and resigned. The Prime Minister has now appointed her to do a very important job.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will be aware that the former Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, and his entire Cabinet at that time, many of whom are now back in the Cabinet, were warned in 2019 not to use their personal phones for business but it appears that some continued to do so. Can the Minister confirm what guidance was given to Cabinet Ministers at that time? Is it still being given to Cabinet Ministers? How is that guidance being enforced and is not obeying those rules a breach of the Ministerial Code?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I will not, of course, comment on the particular; however, it is the case that government systems should be used, as far as practicable, for government business. The guidance issued and kept under review does not rule out the use of different forms of electronic communications in some circumstances. There has to be a place for a variety of digital channels. Ministers have informal conversations from time to time and they have to use a variety of digital communications for personal, political and parliamentary matters.

COP 27

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Thursday 27th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I know all that my noble friend has done to help on climate change and his great work chairing the Climate Change Committee. As for the Cabinet committees for the new Government, we will have to wait to find our exactly what they look like.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I bring the Minister back to her answer to my noble friend, who asked about the 30/30 campaign. The Minister said that we lead the campaign on this; it is all very well leading campaigns, but after 12 years in government, we have not had actually made much progress. We are talking about 3% of land rather than 30%. With COP 27 pending, could she not say a little more about the implementation? Having led the campaign with such vigour—but obviously not great response—when will we get to the 30% required by the campaign?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

On the 30%, there is obviously lots to do. I believe that 100 countries have now signed up. We have been very good at leading other countries and trying to get them involved in these matters. Obviously, it is work in progress. The UK is recognised as a global leader on many aspects of climate change. Our emissions reduced by 47% since 1990, and we have a stretching NDC, but, perhaps most of all, we are the first nation to legislate for net zero by 2050.

Home Secretary: Resignation and Reappointment

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Thursday 27th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, the response in the other place that the sacking or resignation of the Home Secretary in last week’s Government was for “an error of judgment”, and that she recognised her mistake and stood down, is now under scrutiny and it is starting to wilt like a lettuce. A range of sanctions is available for the breach of the Ministerial Code, yet for this particular breach, which the Government now want to play down, apparently resignation was the only option, not the other sanctions available.

Last night, Sir Jake Berry, who was the Chairman of the Conservative Party until Tuesday, said that there had been “multiple breaches” of the Ministerial Code. Numerous questions are now becoming more evident—it is quite a murky business—but two are really important for Parliament. First, did the Home Secretary immediately refer herself for this security breach, or did it come to light only after being reported by somebody else? Secondly—I was surprised this question was not answered by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons yesterday, when Keir Starmer asked it, so I will ask it again—have officials raised any concerns about Rishi Sunak’s decision to reappoint Suella Braverman as Home Secretary?

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)]

My Lords, I think it is actually very simple. Noble Lords have seen Ms Braverman’s letter. She made a mistake when she was Home Secretary. She acknowledged the mistake; she acknowledged an error of judgment; she apologised. That was dealt with by the previous Prime Minister and Ms Braverman resigned. Separately, the present Prime Minister has decided to appoint Ms Braverman as Home Secretary.

Everyone deserves a second chance. The Prime Minister was clear that this is a Government with integrity, professionalism and accountability, and I believe it was right to bring her back. On the question of advice, noble Lords will know that we do not comment on internal advice; such advice is confidential.

House of Lords: Appointments

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I start by making the general point that, given retirements and other departures, some new Members are essential to keep the expertise and outlook of the House of Lords fresh. The Burns report had longer-term proposals to maintain a steady-state size. Those still require further thought and engagement, particularly with the House of Commons, given the constitutional implications. Theresa May’s Administration in 2018 did not sign up to the Burns recommendations, but there is a Conservative manifesto commitment to look at the role of the Lords.

On the other point that my noble friend Lord Fowler raised—if I may still call him my noble friend—the nomination for the appointment of the individual he referred to is a matter for the leader of the Labour Party, Keir Starmer, to answer for. Obviously the HOLAC provides advice on nominations for all life Peers, including those recommended by UK political parties, to ensure the highest standards of propriety. That was applied in the usual way.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, listening to the Minister, we accept that the appointment of new Members is important to refresh skills, talents and expertise as others depart from your Lordships’ House. However, the Burns report, as indicated by the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, showed a road map towards a smaller and therefore more effective Chamber.

Let us look at the facts over the last few years. David Cameron appointed more Peers per year than any other Prime Minister ever, with a far greater proportion to the government parties. Boris Johnson then made him look like an amateur. There have been so many resignations from the Government Front Bench in the last two years that, even with the higher number of Conservative appointments, we have had an extra 10 appointments on the Conservative Benches purely to fill ministerial posts following resignations.

Your Lordships’ House has regularly expressed its concern and its support for the Burns report. This must be the first time ever that the House of Lords has called for reform and it is the Government who are blocking it. With the talk of another list about to be sent our way, courtesy of the former Prime Minister’s resignation list—I do not know if there will be any further ones—is it not time to stop, pause and have a genuine discussion about a sensible way forward?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

On the last point, it is a long-standing convention that individuals can be nominated for an honour in recognition of their public or political service and Prime Ministers can draw up resignation lists after leaving office. This has been the case under past Governments across the political spectrum. I point out regarding the numbers that, after a long period of Labour government, there were very substantial numbers of Labour Peers. The Conservative voice in this House is still underrepresented and has been for some time.