2 Baroness Scott of Bybrook debates involving the Department for Transport

Thu 6th Apr 2017
Merchant Shipping (Homosexual Conduct) Bill
Lords Chamber

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wed 12th Oct 2016
Bus Services Bill [HL]
Lords Chamber

Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords

Merchant Shipping (Homosexual Conduct) Bill

Baroness Scott of Bybrook Excerpts
Moved by
Baroness Scott of Bybrook Portrait Baroness Scott of Bybrook
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That the Bill be now read a second time.

Baroness Scott of Bybrook Portrait Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)
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My Lords, I am very pleased to bring this Bill to the House. It will bring clarity and certainty to our statute book on the law on discrimination in employment. The Bill was piloted through the House of Commons by John Glen, the Member for Salisbury. It received a very full debate on Second Reading, with 11 Back-Bench speakers.

The Bill is extremely straightforward and consists of a single operative clause. It repeals Sections 146(4) and 147(3) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, now defunct provisions that preserved the right to dismiss a seafarer on a UK merchant ship on the grounds of homosexual conduct. The Bill had a minor amendment made to it at the Commons Committee stage to bring forward commencement to the day on which the Act is passed rather than the standard two months. It went through its Report stage unamended, although not without a rigorous debate. I am proud to bring forward a Bill which signals clearly our opposition to discrimination. We should be absolutely clear: when it comes to employment either in the Merchant Navy or anywhere else, what matters is your ability to do the job, not your gender, age, ethnicity, religion or sexuality.

I will take a moment to outline the background to the Bill. Sections 146 and 147 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 repealed the clauses in the Sexual Offences Act 1967 which made homosexual activity within the Armed Forces and on Merchant Navy vessels a criminal offence. Sections 146(4) and 147(3) of the 1994 Act, the subsections repealed by this Bill, state that nothing in them would prevent a homosexual act from constituting a ground for dismissing a member of the crew of a UK merchant ship from his ship. These sections were added to that Bill following non-government amendments during the Lords Committee stage following concerns about the effect of that Act on the dismissals policy of the Armed Forces and the Merchant Navy. During the passage of the 1994 Act, members of both Houses noted the anomaly that there were no equivalent provisions for heterosexual activity taking place on board a ship, highlighting a concern about employment discrimination even then.

It is important to be clear that the provisions in the 1994 Act are no longer of any legal effect, not least due to the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 and the regulations made under it as well as relevant Northern Ireland regulations. The equivalent provisions for the Armed Forces in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act were struck down by the ECHR in Smith and Grady v United Kingdom in 2000.

While the provisions of the 1994 Act have now been legally superseded, there are still four good reasons to pass this Bill. First, it is symbolic. These provisions are believed to be among the last remnants of legislation on our statute book which penalise homosexual conduct and include a provision that applies to homosexual individuals but not to heterosexual individuals. In passing this Bill, we have the opportunity to state clearly and unequivocally that what matters in employment is someone’s ability to do the job and nothing else, and that there is no room today for employment discrimination. Secondly, it delivers on the commitment made by the Government during the passage of the Armed Forces Act 2016 to deal with the Merchant Navy provisions in just the same way as the Armed Forces provisions when that legislation was passed. Thirdly, it gives reassurance. An individual could easily look up the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 online and be concerned or misled by its apparent provisions. By removing these provisions from the statute book, we can provide clarity and prevent any misunderstanding as to the current state of the law. Fourthly, this Bill would tidy up the legislation. Members of the House of Commons described the Bill as a “useful tidying-up exercise”. It would make the status of our current employment law absolutely clear and give reassurance to anyone who was in doubt about it.

The Bill is supported by the UK Chamber of Shipping, the industry body for the Merchant Navy; the RMT, the industry union; and by long-standing gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell. It enjoyed cross-party support in the House of Commons and is supported by the Government. I hope that we will be able quickly and easily to pass this short but important Bill into law. I beg to move.

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Baroness Scott of Bybrook Portrait Baroness Scott of Bybrook
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My Lords, I thank all noble Lords across the House who have spoken today and who have shown such great interest in this little Bill and welcomed it so warmly. It is a small Bill but, as has been said a number of times, it is symbolically a very big Bill. Thank you for your support. I ask the House to give the Bill a Second Reading.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Bus Services Bill [HL]

Baroness Scott of Bybrook Excerpts
Lord Kennedy of Southwark Portrait Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)
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My Lords, as this is my first contribution to the discussion on Report of the Bus Services Bill, I refer noble Lords to my register of interests: I am an elected councillor in the London Borough of Lewisham and a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I should also say that, generally, we on these Benches welcome the provisions in the Bill.

Bus use in London has grown while outside it the picture has been very different. We are hopeful that when the Bill passes into law, it will help to halt the decline in bus use outside London, particularly in rural areas. The two amendments in this group are in the name of my noble friend Lord Whitty. As we have heard, Amendment 1 seeks to place a duty on county councils in non-metropolitan areas to consult on the needs for local bus services. It would require them to issue a consultation document and, following the consultation, to issue an assessment on the need for local bus services in the county and, further, to seek to secure the provision of bus services that address the needs identified that would otherwise not be met, as my noble friend outlined. The amendment is very focused and requires the Secretary of State to issue guidance to assist county councils in making sure that they have properly responded to the outcomes of the consultation. The amendment goes further in setting out what the consultation must address and who, at a minimum, must be consulted. I agree with my noble friend Lord Whitty and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, about ensuring that employers’ organisations are properly consulted. However, the amendment gives considerable scope to the Secretary of State to set out and shape the consultation to be undertaken.

Amendment 113, also in the name of my noble friend Lord Whitty, would place a requirement on the Government and the Secretary of State to issue a national strategy document within 12 months of the Act coming into force. Noble Lords will recall that that was discussed in Committee. As we have heard, there is no need for the bus industry to be the poor relation of other transport services. I fully support this amendment’s objective of requiring a proper national strategy. As we have heard, this document will set out the objectives, targets, plans and funding mechanisms for the delivery of bus services over the next 10 years. That is a very welcome idea. We have heard and seen the decline in bus services outside London. The Bill is an attempt to halt that decline. It seems sensible for the Government to pull those things together into one document. I hope that the Minister will give a positive response.

Baroness Scott of Bybrook Portrait Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)
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My Lords, as my county was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for which I thank him, I thought that I should respond. I do not think this amendment is necessary. Many counties such as Wiltshire already know exactly what is happening with bus services in their areas and the importance of them to their communities. Wiltshire has just finished a review which took place over the last six months. We have had nearly 12,000 responses, which is excellent for our county. We are looking at our bus services in response to those responses. As the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, said, bus services rightly need to be provided for vulnerable people and people trying to get to work but also for people in rural communities trying to access leisure facilities. We are doing that. It is interesting to note that we will save half a million pounds this year by not retaining the bus services that are not required by the people of Wiltshire.

However, a much more important aspect of this concerns the number of buses used by public services in our local authorities. Health, for example, spends as much money in Wiltshire on supporting transport in our county as we do. Therefore, it is important that we work together with other public services to ensure that we obtain the most efficient service for moving people around our areas as we possibly can.

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
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My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. I will speak to both Amendments 1 and 113 in this group.

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, mentioned the spirit in which discussions on the Bill have taken place, and I support his sentiment. From the Government’s perspective there has been a willingness to listen and to take on board comments that have been received, as well as to provide explanations when they feel that provisions already cover various aspects of amendments.

Amendment 1 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, would require all non-metropolitan county councils to assess and consult on the needs of local bus passengers, with an associated duty to subsequently secure the provision of such bus services as the authority considers “reasonable and appropriate”. I appreciate what this amendment seeks to achieve, particularly in ensuring that local authorities consider the benefits that good bus services bring and undertake a proper assessment of local transport needs. However, as noble Lords may well know, the Transport Act 2000—as amended by the Local Transport Act 2008—already obliges local authorities to produce local transport plans. Authorities are obliged to develop policies for the promotion and encouragement of safe, integrated, efficient and economic transport. This ensures that transport needs are looked at collectively rather than on a mode-by-mode basis. Local transport authorities are then required to prepare a local transport plan which must, among other things, contain such policies.

Under the original provisions of the Transport Act 2000, each local authority was also obliged to produce a bus strategy. These bus strategies contained authorities’ general policies on how best to secure services that met passenger needs. Again, the Transport Act 2000 provisions had a similar focus to the amendment tabled today by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. The requirement to produce separate bus strategies was removed by the Local Transport Act 2008. The rationale for this was to allow bus measures to be integrated more effectively into the core local transport plan and to remove the burden of producing two different but related strategies from local transport authorities. The Government’s view is that this remains the correct approach.

The Bill also already requires any local transport authority that plans to go down the enhanced partnership route to produce an enhanced partnership plan that will set out policies and objectives relating to bus services. The authority must also consult on such a plan. In effect, it would require the local authority to undertake an assessment addressing very similar issues to those which would be addressed in the assessment required by the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. I would not want to impose additional burdens on authorities that choose to pursue an enhanced partnership.

On the new duty included in this amendment, which requires county councils in non-metropolitan areas to secure the provision of local bus services, again I recognise the noble Lord’s intention, but the amendment would not make a practical difference. As my noble friend Lady Scott has already pointed out, local authorities are very much aware and indeed practiced in implementing sound policies. This is because there is already a very similar duty on non-metropolitan county councils, which local authorities are aware of, under Section 63 of the Transport Act 1985. I therefore hope that the noble Lord understands why I cannot support the amendment and as such will feel able to withdraw it.

Amendment 113, also tabled in the noble Lord’s name, would require the Secretary of State to produce a national strategy for bus services. As I have said at previous stages of debate on the Bill, devolution is an important theme that has informed the development of the Bill. Indeed, the essence of and the intent behind the Bus Services Bill reflect the Government’s own perspective on how bus services should be progressed and taken forward. This Bill is all about providing authorities with new tools to enable them to improve their local bus services in the way that best suits their areas. It is not about imposing particular models.

Central government of course has a valuable role to play in setting the wider agenda through policy initiatives such as the low-emission bus scheme and our Total Transport pilots, but centrally determined strategies for local bus services would not help authorities to address particular issues relevant to them and to their area. As such, it does not seem sensible for central government to set a national strategy when local authorities and bus operators working together will be designing services and setting standards locally.

Additionally, as I have previously explained, the Department for Transport helps to support local bus services outside London by paying some £250 million per year through the bus service operators grant. We are already reviewing the BSOG system, with the aim of ensuring that funding is targeted where it is most needed in line with local authority objectives. Through that work we should establish and set out central government’s priorities and objectives for the funding that is provided.

I hope that my explanation has given the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, sufficient reassurance to enable him to withdraw his amendment.