Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (Amendment) Order 2011

Debate between Baroness Royall of Blaisdon and Earl of Courtown

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Grand Committee

[The Earl of Courtown]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for telling the Committee that there has been a £700,000 saving in ministerial salaries. However, does that take into account those Ministers, Whips and Members of the Front Bench who do not receive a salary? I should be interested to know how many Members on the Front Bench in this House and the other place are not in receipt of a salary. If they are not, do they accrue any form of pension benefit? I think that the Ministers in this House do a grand job—the same as when the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, was in power—and they are not paid nearly enough. I look forward to hearing what my noble friend has to say.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, I declare an interest as being in receipt of a ministerial or other salary. I have been for some time and I am very grateful to the Government.

I am also very grateful to the Minister for pointing out that the previous Government also had a policy of not increasing salaries. Of course, I am attracted—I would be, wouldn’t I?—by the idea from the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, that, rather than reduce ministerial salaries, there should be a reduction in Ministers. I jest but I believe now, as I did when we were in government, that there are too many Ministers. I do not think that that should have an impact on salaries but I firmly believe that there are too many Ministers—in the other place, of course—although Ministers work phenomenally hard.

I am not sure what the noble Earl was getting at but I think that it is wrong in principle for there to be unpaid Ministers. A Minister is a Minister; they do a fantastic job and should be paid accordingly.

Of course, when everyone in the whole country is having to tighten their belts, it is right that those in receipt of ministerial salaries should do likewise. Resources are limited and we have to take our share of the pain. Although I would strenuously argue that the cuts to our public services in general are too deep and being made too fast, I do not think that that is the case in relation to ministerial salaries. The Prime Minister was correct when he acted as a sort of catalyst for this legislation.