Crime and Policing Bill

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 15th December 2025 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

330A: Clause 97, page 122, line 31, at end insert—
“(b) in subsection (1) at the beginning insert “Subsection to subsection (1A),”;(c) after subsection (1), insert—“(1A) The court may only make a stalking protection order against a defendant if conditions A and B are met—(a) condition A is that the court is satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the defendant has engaged in stalking behaviour towards a person; (b) condition B is that the order is necessary and proportionate to protect that person from stalking, or the risk of stalking, carried out by the defendant.”.”

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 330A, I will speak to Amendment 330B, tabled in my name and those of the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, and the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, and to Amendments 330AZA and 356E, tabled in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool. In doing so, I welcome this weekend’s announcements that were part of the Government’s strategy to halve violence against women and girls in the next 10 years, and I look forward to the publication of the strategy later this week.

We owe much to the noble Baroness, Lady Bertin, for her 2019 stalking Bill that created stalking protection orders—SPOs—which were introduced in January 2020. The Government have recognised that the SPO process is in need of reform. Strengthening the use of SPOs was a manifesto commitment within their plan to have violence against women and girls over the next decade. His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services’ response to the stalking super-complaint highlighted the need to change the legal framework for SPOs and align them more closely to orders available in domestic abuse cases. The amendments in this group seek to reform SPOs to ensure the victims of stalking are swiftly protected from further harm.

Amendment 330A seeks to clarify the evidential threshold for obtaining an SPO, to bring this in line with domestic abuse protection orders—DAPOs—and so ensure swifter and less onerous access to these protective orders. The Stalking Protection Act 2019 provides that the magistrates’ court may make an SPO if it is satisfied that the offender has carried out acts associated with stalking. However, the legislation does not explicitly state the evidential standard to be applied. This lack of clarity can lead to inconsistent interpretation and application across police forces and courts in England and Wales. In practice, some courts have applied the criminal standard of proof when determining whether the conditions for an SPO are met. This approach means that police forces need to gather evidence similar to that required for a full criminal prosecution in order to secure an SPO. Consequently, victims face significant delays in obtaining protection, leaving them at risk.

For example, a woman called Juliana experienced online harassment, criminal damage and vexatious complaints to her employer by her stalker. She reported it to the police, and her perpetrator was arrested. While an SPO was considered throughout the investigation, there was slow progress made by the police to submit her application. Multiple witness statements were obtained to support her SPO and legal services within the police were contacted. Seven months later, Juliana is still awaiting a court date for the hearing. Due to the time elapsed, she is concerned that her perpetrator will soon be let out on bail and she will have no protective measures in place. By contrast, under Section 32 of the Domestic Abuse Act 2021, a court may issue a DAPO on the civil standard of proof. This lower evidential threshold allows for swifter intervention and the earlier safeguarding of victims.

According to the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, approximately half of stalking victims do not have a prior relationship with the offender, which means that there is a disparity in protection between the victims who qualify for a DAPO, who have a relationship with the offender, and those who must rely on an SPO. Given that stalking related to domestic abuse and stalking not related to domestic abuse have comparable impacts on victims, I suggest that the threshold should be consistent for both types of protective order.

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[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful for that intervention, and I will certainly discuss those suggestions and points with colleagues from the police. The current statutory guidance for police on SPOs includes a non-exhaustive list of suggested conditions, many of which could align with Amendment 330AZA. For example, the guidance could include prohibitions on contacting the victim or referring to the victim on social media, either directly or indirectly. Similarly, the statutory guidance for the police on DAPOs also includes a non-exhaustive list of suggested conditions. It may well be that the points the noble Lord has mentioned are covered in that, but I will happily reflect on what he said.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

I am sure my noble friend is correct that it is, or should be, covered in guidance, but patently the judge looking at the case that I mentioned was not aware of this and said the fact that the victim had been contacted via LinkedIn was not something he could take a view on. He did not know that this was something he could take a view on. I am grateful to my noble friend for ensuring that the guidance is properly looked at.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful again to my noble friend for referring to the LinkedIn experience. My assessment, having discussed this with officials and with my colleague Ministers, is that the statutory guidance for police includes prohibitions on contacting the victim by any means, including social media. If my noble friend will let me, I will reflect on what she has said today, and I will discuss again with officials whether the guidance in its current format is sufficient to cover that point. That is my understanding, and I think it is a reasonable understanding to put before the Committee today.

Amendment 330C in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, would replace the power for the Secretary of State to issue multi-agency statutory guidance on stalking with a duty to do so. This would align the provision on guidance with the Stalking Protection Act 2019 and the Domestic Abuse Act 2021. The noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, supported the general direction of travel that the noble Baroness brought forward in her amendment. I agree that it is important, where appropriate, to ensure that legislative provisions tackling violence against women and girls are consistent. Accordingly, this is an amendment that I am happy to take away for further consideration and to discuss with officials.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for his positive response to so many of the amendments and I look forward to further discussions. I am sure that if any noble Lord who has participated in this debate can be of assistance in those discussions, we will be happy to have a meeting with the Minister. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 330A withdrawn.

Grooming Gangs: Independent Inquiry

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Excerpts

Thursday 11th December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Baroness invites me to come to conclusions about what the inquiry might say in any particular circumstance. Hopefully, I can reassure her by saying that the inquiry is already going to look at individual authorities urgently. If there are emerging issues, then I expect my noble friend Lady Longfield to report those to Ministers. They are beginning to look at the local authority of Oldham as a first priority, and there may be more that they look at individually. I suspect that if there are lessons to be learned during the course of the inquiry, such as those that the noble Baroness has mentioned, they will be drawn to the attention of Ministers, but we have set a remit and a scope for the inquiry and I think it fair that we let the chair and panel members, with the guidance of the noble Baroness, Lady Casey, examine those issues. Self-evidently, though, if someone has not performed their duty and that has led to the exploitation and grooming of individuals and has failed in their professional duty, then they should be held to account for that. What I cannot say to the noble Baroness is who, what, where and when, because that is part of the purpose of the inquiry.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement and I certainly welcome the appointment of my noble friend Lady Longfield as the chair of this very important inquiry; she has the requisite experience and skills. Like others, I regret that it took so long but I understand that it is a complex situation. I have one question: it is great that the inquiry has a defined timescale of three years, but I wonder if in that time there will be opportunities for my noble friend to update Parliament on the progress of the inquiry. Where there is no communication, there is a vacuum, and vacuums lead to suspicion, so the more open the inquiry can be, the better.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend. There are two issues arising out of that. The first is that I personally, as Minister, will have a responsibility for holding to account the budget and timescale of the inquiry. In the past, some inquiries have said, “We’re going to do it in three years”, but then it has taken longer—maybe five years or six—and recommendations have not come out. My first job as the Minister is to ensure that we hold now to the three-year timetable and to the budget and that we liaise with the chair on those matters. What the chair says and does is for the chair to determine, in my view—for example, if the chair wishes, as I will do anyway, to meet regularly to review those other matters that I have just mentioned. If the chair wishes to draw attention to anything in particular then I am sure that will be done, but I do not want to restrict the chair or commit her to doing things that it is for the chair to determine. Self-evidently, however, if there are emerging issues that the chair wishes to report to Ministers then it will be for Ministers to report those to both Houses of Parliament in due course, for the reasons that my noble friend has mentioned.

Crime and Policing Bill

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 27th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bertin (Con)]

My Lords, I support this group of amendments. What a speech my friend, the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, made; I commend all the speeches that have been made. If the Government only do one thing with this Bill, it should be to take on this group of amendments.

It is utterly terrifying. I addressed a teaching conference this week, with the safeguarding leads of many schools around the country, and they are tearing their hair out about it. The kids are on this stuff 100%, as we have seen from the statistics. The other thing they said to me, which the noble Baroness mentioned, is that parents either know about it and are terrified about how to address it, or they do not know about it, and I am not sure which is worse.

I reiterate that we have to get ahead of this, as the noble Baroness said. The Government must get ahead of this; otherwise, the dangers are just too huge to think about. I will keep this brief because I will speak about it more in due course, but my team and I went on a chatbot and we were “Lily”, and within about three seconds we were having an incestuous conversation with our father. It was absolutely crackers—terrible—so I ask the Government to please take on board these recommendations.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I was not intending to speak and I have nothing to add to all the brilliant speeches that have been made. I did not participate in the debates on the Online Safety Act. I feel horribly naive; I find this debate utterly terrifying and the more that parents know about these things, the better. I very much hope that my noble friend will be able to take this back and discuss these issues with people in this Chamber and the House of Commons. We cannot be behind the curve all the time; we have got to grip this to protect our children and our grandchildren.

[Lord Hampton (CB)]

My Lords, I briefly add my support to all these amendments, particularly the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Nash, which is fascinating. If we can get the software to do this, then why would we not? I offer a challenge to Ofcom, the Government and tech firms. If they can produce such sophisticated software that it can persuade children to kill themselves, why are BT and eBay’s chatbots so rubbish? We have to make AI a force for good, not for evil.

Child Poverty Strategy: Migrant Families

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Excerpts

Monday 27th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I have one simple answer to the noble Lord: yes. It is vital that all children have the best start in life, and children should not be impacted by the position of their parents. They deserve the opportunity to thrive in life. The child poverty strategy will deal with how we meet those challenges over a 10-year period.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend’s responses to the various questions are very welcome. I understand that the Department of Health launched a consultation last year to explore whether the families we are speaking about would be eligible for the Healthy Start scheme. I presume that the results of that consultation will be included in the new child poverty strategy. Can my noble friend confirm that?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Again, I find myself in the difficult position that I am not able to give details of the new child poverty strategy because it is not published as yet; it will be published very shortly. The points that my noble friend raised will undoubtedly be considered, but I cannot give her an answer from the Dispatch Box because that would pre-empt an announcement the Government intend to make in very short order.

Crime and Policing Bill

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 16th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister has so clearly set out, there is much to welcome in this Bill to improve the law where needed and to make us safer. I look forward to following it closely. To the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, I say that I also look forward to following the implementation when it is an Act. It will have a profound impact on the lives of many, including the most vulnerable. I particularly support the clauses relating to countering violence against children, women and girls.

Following the report of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, the IICSA, I welcome the abolition of time limitations in historical cases of child sexual abuse with Clause 82. The importance of this clause was brought home to me by a very courageous survivor, who, following years of sexual abuse by his priest, has lived a life with incapacitating mental illness, of which the origin was that trauma. The last Government refused to act on this specific issue, so I am proud that this Government have conceded the fundamental legal principle. However, as drafted, it has limited benefit to those who have fought for the change and whose sufferings make it necessary to fight. I ask the Minister to discuss this with me further, together with survivors.

The IICSA recommendations should be adopted without change or qualification. However, the clause adds a new “substantial prejudice”, especially for historical cases, which creates uncertainty, delays and an extra hurdle for survivors. As I understand it, the IICSA’s final report did not include any changes regarding the introduction of “substantial prejudice”. Its inclusion in the Bill could be interpreted as reintroducing the status quo. The impact of narrowing the court’s focus to a fair trial, with the burden on defendants, should make out-of-time CSA claims easier overall, but ambiguity remains around what count as “claims arising”.

New Section 11ZB(3)(b) and (c), introduced by Clause 82, introduce the novel legal idea of “substantial prejudice”, adopted from Scottish legislation, but they are unjustified, as there is no provision for relitigation in these cases in England and Wales. I suggest that if cases fail in civil courts then the legislation has failed in its aims, and these new paragraphs should be removed.

The testimony of witnesses to the IICSA shows institutional discouragement and the extended, often ineradicable psychological harm of abuse, underscoring the need for these reforms to remove barriers. One witness said to me, “Attending the IICSA was the second most dramatic thing in my life and the trauma of it has lasted seven years so far. If subsection (3)(b) and subsection (3)(c) remain, then preparing for a court case which could be dismissed on these grounds would be as traumatic as that, and with little personal benefit”. While survivors are relieved that, through this legislation, time limitations in historical cases of child sexual abuse will be abolished, the “substantial prejudice” clauses need to be deleted for better access to justice.

The clauses on the management of sex offenders are hugely important for the victims of violence against women and girls, and I am delighted, with my long-term interest in countering stalking, that the Government are seeking both to implement their manifesto commitments and to respond to the invaluable super-complaint made by the Suzy Lamplugh Trust. Following discussions with those most concerned, I will wish to probe Part 6. I also know from campaigning on doorsteps that the new offence of cuckooing will be of great benefit, especially to those living in social housing.

Finally, I wholeheartedly support Clause 191 on the removal of women from the criminal law related to abortion. I pay tribute to my colleague, Tonia Antoniazzi.

Domestic Abusers: Reoffending

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The right reverend Prelate makes an extremely important point. It is important that we do not just have interventions on perpetrators but also that those individuals who can help, intervene and support victims are both supported in how they can make those interventions and have support and training generally. She will, I hope, welcome the fact that a new violence against women and girls strategy—one of the Government’s “plan for change” manifesto commitments—will be published later this year. Prevention and education are fundamental to the Government’s approach. I will certainly take back her comments to the Minister responsible, Jess Phillips, who will be developing the strategy, and we will look at it: obviously, it will be published for this House to interrogate in due course.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate mentioned the importance of schools and of teaching young people about healthy relationships. She also mentioned the Hollie Gazzard Trust and various other charities that work in this area. But I wonder what is happening up and down the country to ensure that there are not just pockets of education but that this education is widespread among young people in our communities.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

My noble friend hits on an important point. Domestic violence does not just happen when an individual reaches a certain age; it is inbuilt and ingrained over a long period of time. Therefore, in order to prevent domestic violence downstream, the way young people in primary and secondary schools and beyond are educated in mutual respect and understanding, and in non-violence, is extremely important. I would hope that my colleagues at the Department for Education, and indeed in the devolved Administrations in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, recognise that need for early intervention and resilience building to ensure that we do not create the perpetrators of the future who will then need the required investment and intervention I talked about in my earlier answers.

King’s Speech

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome two superb new Ministers: the noble Lord, Lord Hanson, with whom I worked in government and in opposition, and the noble Lord, Lord Timpson, an inspired appointment, who made a brilliant maiden speech. I share the view that he expressed some time ago that we are addicted to sentencing and punishment. Of course some people must be punished, but for too many people prison simply does not work. I hope that this prison crisis can be turned into an opportunity, with fewer people being sent to prison, including women, whose crimes often do not warrant imprisonment and whose families are torn apart, including by short sentences. If all offenders had proper access to training and learning while in prison and came out to a job and a roof over their heads, reoffending would decrease dramatically.

I co-chair the Oxfordshire Inclusive Economy Partnership. One issue on which we are working at the moment is to support prison leavers into employment, and we are redoubling our efforts in the light of early release. We were inspired by a speech at our launch by Darren Burns, who is the head of the Timpson Foundation. A few months ago, we organised a visit by employers to Bullingdon prison. They met staff, the governor, people providing training and offenders who were learning building and barista skills and hairdressing. At the end of the visit, one employer, who had never been in a prison before, said, “But they’re just like you and me”. Indeed, they too are human beings, just like you and me. Some fantastic employers in Oxfordshire train and support prison leavers, such as RAW and Tap Social, and more are being encouraged to do so, including the universities, in which I have a registered interest.

Access to employment and accommodation must go together if someone is to succeed and keep out of prison. The biggest block to employment is often the cost and availability of housing, and I pay tribute to charities such as Aspire. There is an excellent initiative at Bullingdon prison called Community Connections, an independently evaluated two-year pilot with a prison officer in the role of community connections officer. He opens up the prison to opportunities and resources in the community and breaks down barriers. This should be replicated in other prisons. Shortly, there will be a new Bullingdon project, a departure lounge in the visitors’ centre to support men with hot drinks, information, clothes, toiletries and phones immediately on release. Getting Oxfordshire Online and National Databank will provide the men with phones and SIMs with six months of calls and some data. I hope the Minister might consider visiting Oxfordshire soon.

Moving to justice, or rather injustice, for women and girls, yesterday a police report warned that violence against women and girls is a national emergency that for too long has not been taken seriously. I am proud that the Prime Minister spoke in the King’s Speech debate of this Government’s mission to reduce violence against women and girls by 50% in 10 years. He mentioned our mutual friends John and Penny Clough, who have courageously campaigned on stalking since their daughter Jane was brutally murdered by her stalker 14 years ago tomorrow. Since then I have campaigned on this insidious crime, and over that time an offence was introduced, various orders and reams of guidance were issued and countless demands were made that lessons be learned, but the violence, the stalking and the murders continue. Since 6 May, 18 women have been murdered in this country by men.

I welcome proposals in the new crime and policing Bill to ensure that we have rape and sexual assault units in every police station, as well as specialist domestic abuse experts in 999 control rooms. I am delighted by Jess Phillips’s determination to improve the police and criminal justice system’s response to stalking, which will include strengthening the use of stalking protection orders and giving women the right to know the identity of online stalkers, but even more needs to be done. I hope that the Met’s V100 initiative will be rolled out in every police force. Claire Waxman, London’s victims’ commissioner said following her stalking review that the system has become compliant in allowing stalking cases to escalate. Together with the National Police Chiefs’ Council, she called for an improved approach to the use of technology to track and pursue high-harm and repeat perpetrators of violence against women and girls. I am in favour of tagging.

Justice and home affairs will have to deal with enormous challenges immediately and in the coming years. I am confident that this Government and our two excellent Ministers will do so with fairness, firmness and compassion.