Yorkshire: Devolution

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

Wednesday 17th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate. I agree that it is important that the experience of mayoral city regions, of Manchester and elsewhere, is learned by the whole country. We respond to proposals, not just from Yorkshire, but from elsewhere—but that has not yet happened. I welcome what the right reverend Prelate said regarding Sheffield. That is certainly true; it must proceed. That is in accordance with what we have done as a Government, what this House and the other place have done as a Parliament, and what the electorate have done in electing Dan Jarvis as mayor.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, there is amazing unity in Yorkshire—a bit of a historic moment, that. A great campaign run by the regional newspaper the Yorkshire Post has gathered support for the One Yorkshire devolution deal. If the Government are not prepared to consider a One Yorkshire solution—perhaps they are a bit frightened of the size of Yorkshire and the power it would then have—would it not be worth them getting a polling company to find out what the people of Yorkshire think? I know what the answer would be, and maybe that is the best way to tell the Government. Does the Minister agree that that is a good idea?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I listened very carefully to the noble Baroness and I usually agree with her, but we should not get ahead of ourselves by involving polling companies when we do not yet have a proposal. As I say, the policy is absolutely clear and it has not faltered. On devolution, we must first get a proposal; there has not been one. I come back to the point that this cannot happen until the Sheffield city deal has been executed. This has not happened yet because of the lack of consultation; it has been held up, and I understand the frustrations there. But for us to react and consider polling or anything else, I am afraid we must first have proposals.

Non-Domestic Rating (Nursery Grounds) Bill

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 24th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I draw your Lordships’ attention to my relevant interests as a councillor on Kirklees Council, a vice-president of the Local Government Association and a member of the Royal Horticultural Society.

We on these Benches fully support the purpose of this Bill, which, as other noble Lords have said, is to address an anomaly arising from a court case in 2015. I thank the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, for raising some significant questions on the process that led to the court case which I hope the Minister will be able to answer, either today or in a letter.

I have some comments and questions for the Minister in relation to this short Bill. The first is on the definition of “nursery grounds”. The Government have published a factsheet which is helpful in distinguishing between market gardens, garden centres and nursery grounds. However, it would be helpful if the Minister could clarify further, as many of these businesses straddle the various definitions.

Where a business grows plants from seed in greenhouses or polytunnels, my understanding is that they will be exempted by the Bill, but the retail element, where the plants are sold, will not be. Is that correct? What if the nursery has an online order business? Will the packing and posting buildings be exempt?

What about a garden centre where the main centre of the business is retail? Will the small section where plants have been brought in and are cared for before sale be included—if they are shrubs or trees, they might be there for a year or for several years? Will the totality of that business be classed as a garden centre and be liable to business rates, or will some element of that, too, be exempted as a consequence of the Bill?

Once the definition is clarified, it would be helpful to understand the impact of the changes this Bill will make. I noticed that when the Bill was debated in the other place there was no answer to the question about how many businesses would fall into the exemption. It would be helpful to understand the scale of the changes that the Bill will make. Will businesses that fall into this category be expected to self-identify to the valuation office, or will there be a notification as to their change in definition so that they would be exempt? I think it would be very helpful if the onus were on the valuation office to notify the businesses.

Then, there is the impact on the income of local government. No doubt this may be small in totality, but there may be a significant financial impact on some rural district councils, which may have several businesses falling into this definition of nursery grounds. As local authorities now depend for a large portion of their spending on business rates, this may have an unexpectedly significant effect on some councils. Can the Minister provide assurance on these issues?

With those questions and comments, I am totally positive. This is a constructive Bill to change the anomaly that was the result of the court case. It is right that these businesses are exempt from business rates and I support the purpose of the Bill.

Rating (Property in Common Occupation) and Council Tax (Empty Dwellings) Bill

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 18th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Lytton (CB)]

My Lords, I am pleased to follow the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, although I have different reasons for wanting to know what might be included in the guidance. As we are at this stage of the Bill I reiterate my declarations of interest: I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association and a professional who deals with rating, as well as an owner-occupier of residential property.

My concern goes back to a point I made at Second Reading: namely, that we do not always know the full range of circumstances which lead to long-term vacancy. It is probably generally true to say that owners of residential property do not deliberately leave it vacant long term; it simply deteriorates. But there are reasons why it occurs, notwithstanding what one would reasonably suppose is owners’ innate desire to make best use of the asset. I am thinking of areas subject to some sort of wholesale blight; those might be areas which are destined for redevelopment and which are held in that form. If they are held by a developer, good luck to them, but if you happen to be a private owner of property that is in part of an area which is destined for long-term redevelopment, you are stuck with it, possibly with none of the end benefits.

Could the Minister therefore give us some clarification and reassurance that where there is an impact of some planning or public policy—perhaps including a local authority’s policy for an area—that results in genuine reasons for vacancy, this sort of thing will be covered by the guidance? If it is not, it does not matter how genuinely you are in the market and with what rent or other terms you might wish to let or sell the property; if it is in an area that is subject to serious blight, first, nobody will get a mortgage for it, and secondly, maybe nobody will want to live there. Crime, deprivation and so on are part and parcel of that algorithm. We therefore need to be careful that where there are genuine reasons, not all of which can be imagined at this juncture, provision in the guidance will cover that sort of thing. Can the Minister also say whether the guidance will be subject to wider public consultation than perhaps between just the professions—the sort that I belong to—and local authorities?

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I remind noble Lords of my relevant interests, which are in the register, as a councillor and a vice-president of the Local Government Association.

I thank the Minister for accepting the principle of the amendment that I and my Liberal Democrat colleagues tabled both in Committee and on Report. That amendment has now been transformed into a fully fledged amendment, and I thank the Minister for tabling it on behalf of the Government.

We fully support the amendment before us today. Its purpose is clear: to significantly reduce the number of homes that lie empty and unused, which some reports say is as high as 200,000. This is at a time when all agree that there is an urgent need to increase the supply of housing. This amendment is one way of making the most of the housing stock that we have. There are, rightly, exemptions to this policy, and the Minister has outlined what they are. Implementation of the legislation is at the discretion of local authorities, and I hope and expect they will take into account areas that are destined to be redeveloped, and where the sale of a house would be very difficult.

I also welcome the Minister’s comment that there will be a review of the guidance attached to the Bill. Like the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, I raised concerns about that guidance in the Bill’s early stages, namely that it probably lacked the clarity to ensure that the legislation was properly and fairly implemented.

As I said before in discussion on the Bill, there are some owners who, to my personal knowledge, leave properties empty for no other reason than that they do not want to sell them. One property that I mentioned before has been empty for 29 years. I asked the local authority concerned what action it has taken. It said that it has discussed the matter with the owner, who simply does not want to sell the property. So it is left there like a historic relic of 30 years ago. There are instances of that happening. My hope is that with an escalation of the premium on council tax, it will be a financial disincentive to leave homes empty for so long.

That is why I am totally supportive of this amendment, based on the principle that I and others laid before the House in Committee and on Report. I thank the Minister for the discussions we had and for his positive reaction to the principle that I set out. I am also grateful for the help I received from the Liberal Democrat Whips’ office in formulating this idea as an amendment. We fully support the amendment.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Con)]

My Lords, I wonder whether the situation that the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, described would not be dealt with by the power to require the local authority compulsorily to acquire the property. If a property cannot be sold because of a planning blight implied by the actions of the local authority, this might be a way out of it. The noble Lord mentioned that the rating value of the property should be affected by the way it was occupied. I wonder whether the local authority can make that a matter of guidance, or whether it is part of the statutory provision that the premium is payable on the rateable value of a property, rather than on the way in which it was occupied before it became unoccupied.

Rating (Property in Common Occupation) and Council Tax (Empty Dwellings) Bill

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Lytton (CB)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for his clarification on the first part of the Bill and the non-domestic rating. Nobody has been beating a path to my door since the last time we discussed the Bill, and I take it from that that this is as good as it gets. I thank him very much for clarifying that.

I would like to make a couple of comments on the amendments that we are discussing, starting with Amendments 1 and 3. It seems that we do not fully know the reasons for long-term vacancies. What concerns me is that the amendments have the potential to make a blunt instrument. I always think that legislation is about as blunt as it gets, but this risks making it blunter still. I understand the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, about overseas owners; there is such a problem in certain areas, just as there is with certain other reasons for people deliberately holding property vacant.

We have to be clear whether this is some sort of fine or sanction for a socially reprehensible practice of deliberately keeping property empty, or whether it performs a legitimate housing stock amenity consideration. Is it something aimed at preventing the deterioration of neighbourhoods through some sort of social objective? In that case, I suspect that there are other measures. We need to be clear about how this is to be used if it is not to fall rapidly into some sort of disrepute. If it is used as a means just to bolster revenues for a billing authority, we would probably collectively feel that it was not quite the right way in which to do things. I declare my interest as a vice-president of the LGA; no doubt I will get a dart or a brickbat from that quarter if it thinks that I am speaking out of turn.

Either way, at the levels of escalation that we might be talking about, the question is whether we leave things to the sole discretion of billing authorities with a challenge, as I understand it, only by means of judicial review. Other noble Lords will correct me if I have got that wrong. If that is the case, I would regard it as a very significant impediment, because of the cost and time involved in embarking on that course of action—to challenge the views of a local authority by saying that no reasonable authority could have reached that decision, which I understand is the test. As an alternative, I suggest that we need to introduce a properly, but doubtless locally, codified method of application, exemptions and, possibly, appeals. In that case, a lot more needs to be sitting somewhere in the Bill—perhaps the Government will produce regulations or something like that—which is not in it at the moment. I leave your Lordships with those thoughts.

I absolutely get the purpose that sits behind Amendment 2, moved so eloquently by the noble Lord, Lord Stunell. I would hope that the rationale behind saying, “We’re improving the energy efficiency of the Bill”, is not going to be capable of being spun out as some sort of pretext to prevent the core principle behind this, which I accept—namely, that there should be some sort of escalator—from kicking in at all. I think that would be a mistake.

I have a concern about the word “normally”. I seem to remember that it has rather unfortunate antecedents. I am probably going back about 30 years here, but I recall that there were a series of measures whereby it was suggested that “normally”, or something that sounded rather like it, was insufficiently clear or distinct in how it would be applied. The question was whose norm and who would be the judge of that. So, while I support the noble Lord, I am not absolutely sure that “normally” will be sufficiently targeted to achieve what he wants. With that, I will listen with great care to what the Minister has to say.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I apologise for being late. I was watching the screen avidly and then, all of a sudden, it turned to this item of today’s business. I remind noble Lords of my interests as a councillor and as another vice-president of the Local Government Association.

I thank my noble friend Lord Shipley for moving Amendment 1 in his name, my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and giving ample expression to our proposal for adding the premium to be paid on council tax, to be dependent on the length of time for which the property is left empty. In doing so, I shall speak to Amendment 3, a technical amendment in the names of the same noble Lords that supports the principle of Amendment 1.

In Committee, when we first moved an amendment relating to an escalator in the premium on council tax, the Minister was kind enough to give us some warm words of encouragement in response. Subsequently, a couple of weeks ago, we had a meeting where we discussed that. I thank him for saying the Government would be willing to support the principle of the idea but that there may be some necessary refinements when it came back at Third Reading. I am very pleased that that has happened, because it shows how this House can work in making amendments to Bills and trying to improve them before they become full legislation.

The basis of our amendment is, of course, a premium of 200% after five years and 300% after 10 years for those properties that are empty for 10 years or more. Any financial incentive to get more properties into use by families and individuals who desperately need a hand is one that we can all support. At the same time, it stops empty homes from being a blot on their communities—and we all know examples of that. The third reason is that it means that, if we can bring empty properties into use, we do not have to release so much greenbelt land to developers.

High Street Retailers

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Pinnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to support high street retailers and strengthen town centre economies.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are determined to see our Great British high streets thriving now and in the future. That is why my department announced that it will launch a call for evidence over the summer looking at the future of the high street. We will establish an expert panel of leaders to draw on their experience and expertise to diagnose the issues currently affecting the health of our high streets and advise on the best approach for their revival.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his response.

“An immediate overhaul of the business rates system … needed to salvage the high street”—


those are not my words but those of the expert retailer Bill Grimsey in his report today. Does the Minister agree?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, I welcome Bill Grimsey’s review, which contains many recommendations which the Government will want to study in detail. I do not agree that there is a single silver bullet for the revival of the high street—there are many factors, not least changes in habits as to how people shop and so on—but I accept that there is a need to look at this general area. Indeed, it was in the Conservative Party manifesto at the last election that we committed to looking at this area. It is being driven forward on an international basis at the moment because much of this, in relation to online trading, is an international matter.

Anti-terrorism: Hate Speech

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

Wednesday 27th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I first thank the noble Lord for his kind words and what he said about anti-Semitism, which needs tackling in all political parties, as does Islamophobia. I fully accept that. He will probably be aware that the Prime Minister answered a question on this in PMQs today and made clear our determination to deal with the issue. I cannot give him an update on a letter that was sent yesterday—that will probably take a bit longer—but there have been suspensions and expulsions and, wherever there is evidence of Islamophobia in our party, it will be dealt with severely, often with expulsion. I hope that we can look to other political parties to do the same with respect to all religions—this is something that affects all of us. I share the noble Lord’s aspiration that this be properly dealt with.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Afshar (CB)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Pinnock]

Does the Minister agree that an attempt to stigmatise Muslims, as the original Question does, is unworthy of any Member of your Lordships’ House, and that such language aids those who oppose cohesive communities and encourages hate crimes and attacks on both mosques and individual Muslims?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I very much agree with the noble Baroness on that issue. She will know, as I do, that the great mass of people in this country want the cohesive communities that, for the most part, we have. As I go around the country, I see that. That is the norm, but we need to ensure that it is universally the case, which, sadly, it is not yet, across all our communities.

Rating (Property in Common Occupation) and Council Tax (Empty Dwellings) Bill

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 19th June 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Pinnock]

5: Clause 2, page 2, line 33, leave out subsection (1) and insert—
“(1) Section 11B of the LGFA 1992 (higher amount for long-term empty dwellings: England) is amended as follows.(1A) In subsection (1)(b) (maximum percentage by which council tax may be increased), leave out “of not more than 50 as it may so specify” and insert “as specified in subsection (1A)”.(1B) After subsection (1), insert—“(1A) If a dwelling has been empty for—(a) between two years and five years, the percentage is not more than 100;(b) between five years and ten years, the percentage is not more than 200;(c) more than ten years, the percentage is not more than 300.””

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I remind noble Lords of my entry in the register of interests as a vice-president of the Local Government Association and a councillor in the borough of Kirklees in West Yorkshire.

As I made clear at Second Reading, we are broadly supportive of the measures in this Bill. Clause 2 gives powers to local authorities to increase the financial incentive to owners who have empty properties to encourage those same owners to take action so that their empty property can be brought back into use. This financial incentive can, of course, also be seen as a financial penalty. The purpose is clear: to ensure that the many thousands of long-term empty homes become homes for families once more. As there is a crisis in the supply of housing, we think that penalty is justified. Indeed, local authorities have the discretion as to whether to take advantage of the powers in this Bill, and there are exemptions to safeguard owners where homes are empty for wholly understandable and legitimate reasons.

Nevertheless, we want to explore more variation of the additional powers in the form of an escalator. The proposals in the Bill provide for the power to impose a 100% premium for homes left empty for two years or more. The proposal in this amendment is to increase that premium up to 200% for properties that are empty between five and 10 years, and up to 300% for those properties that are empty for 10 years or more and do not obviously fall within the exemptions already described in the legislation—in other words, to increase the financial penalty or incentive, whichever way you look at it, the longer the property is kept empty. This amendment is tabled to explore the potential of this approach. Can the Minister indicate whether increasing the council tax premium in this way will have the desired effect of bringing more long-term empty properties back into use?

One reason for this approach is because previous government legislation has not been anywhere near as effective as it was hoped to be. The empty dwelling management order of 2006, then amended in 2011, is far too complex and costly for local authorities to implement, except in extremis, so it has been used on very few occasions, considering the extent of the problem of long-term empty properties. Local authorities have tended to use other less legalistic methods of tackling the scourge of empty homes. It is apparent from the statistics of longer term empty homes that more needs to be done—hence the proposals in the Bill and hence our amendment. We support the council tax premium way of doing this, but are proposing in this amendment to extend the variation to take account of the length of time in which a property has lain empty. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

I am certainly willing to discuss the escalator without prejudice to an ultimate decision, but the energy efficiency points are best left to local authorities. I can see the strength of the argument put by the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, but localised decision is best. With that, I urge noble Lords not to press their amendments.

[Baroness Pinnock]

I thank everybody for contributing to this debate. The escalator idea was a bit of a shot in the dark and it has generated some useful comments. I am grateful to the Minister for responding relatively positively to the idea.

I absolutely support the energy performance amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Stunell. It is a pity that the Minister thinks that it will be too difficult to pursue further. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for his supportive comments.

The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, said this was complex. He asked whether the escalator is a penalty and whether the 300% premium that I have proposed for very long-term empty properties goes too far. Right from the outset, it can be viewed as a penalty, because it is not related to service provision or the rateable value or banding of your house in the way that other council tax is. In that sense, it is a penalty—or it could be seen as an incentive because we are trying to bring more empty homes back into use.

Other methods have been tried—I referred to the empty dwelling management orders—and have not been successful in bringing empty homes back into use. There is a scourge of long-term empty properties across the country. My gut feeling is that local residents would support an escalator on the grounds that very long-term empty homes are a blight on their community. I have them where I live. There is such a property at the end of a terrace of homes. Everything is overgrown, with grass and trees beginning to grow out of the gutters. It has not been used for years. Nobody seems to know where the owner is. There is a problem that we ought to try to address, because from local residents’ point of view it is not just the blight on their community but the fact that they are seeing their usually much-loved green spaces built on to provide the homes this country needs, when at the same time they can see properties that have been empty and nobody seems to be able to do anything about it. Any measure that will provide greater incentives for owners to bring those dwellings back into use would be generally supported by council tax payers.

I think I have covered all the issues that have been raised. I thank the Minister for saying this is worth considering. As I said at the beginning, this was a bit of a shot in the dark. Let us have a think about an escalator rather than a set time limit, because the longer homes are empty, the worse they become for people who live around them. There should be a penalty in order to get some action to bring such dwellings back into use, so that people can live in them and the community in which other people live is not blighted in that way.

Given all that, and the fact that we are in Committee, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 5 withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Listowel (CB)]

My Lords, I missed most of the earlier debate and the commencement of this one but I have two or three questions that the Minister might be able to help me with now or, if not, to write to me about. My questions arise after listening earlier to my noble friend Lord Lytton. I know of men, for instance, who care for their mothers who are getting frail and elderly, and I can imagine a man in a rather unattractive rental area in the north who has a property which he vacates so that he can live with his mother and look after her. It is all a bit too much to manage as money is short and there is not much demand by people wanting to use that property. I would not want someone like that to have to pay a fine. Local authorities are very tough on those who do not pay their council tax. I imagine that that may well have been dealt with in earlier debates, and I am sorry that I could not be here for those. However, that is an example of something that might happen.

I guess that this discussion brings up the question of how we make the private rented sector attractive so that there are not areas in the north of England where it is difficult to find people to rent properties.

[Baroness Pinnock]

I am just a bit concerned that we seem to think that all these problems are in the north of England, where I live. I would rather that we were all a bit more careful about how we describe the north of England. There are some wonderful places there in which to live and, like everywhere else, including this great city of London, there are some not so pleasant places in which to live. I hope that noble Lords do not mind me saying that we should not always use the north as an example of an area where there are difficult places to live.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Pinnock]

11: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause—
“Definition of long-term empty dwelling
In section 11B of the LGFA 1992 (higher amount for long-term empty dwellings: England), after subsection (8) insert—“( ) The Secretary of State must by regulations provide guidance to billing authorities on how to determine whether a dwelling is “unoccupied” or “substantially unfurnished”, under subsection (8).””

[Baroness Pinnock]

My Lords, this amendment seeks definitions of the terms “unoccupied” and “substantially unfurnished” dwellings. On the face of it, the descriptions pose no difficulties of interpretation—but in practice that is far from the position. Is a dwelling unoccupied if it is used for, say, all but two or three weekends in a year? Does that usage enable the property to be classified as, for instance, a second home? What does “unoccupied” mean? Under the Bill there would be a significant financial cost to the owner if the dwelling is deemed to be unoccupied—one that a homeowner might well challenge if there is no clarity as to the definition.

There is a similar fog around the meaning of “substantially unfurnished”. There must have been calls for clarity from the local government sector, because in September 2014 the DCLG, as it then was, sent a letter to local authorities headed:

“Council Tax Information Letter: Council Tax—Definitions of Empty Homes and Second Homes”.


In my view, the letter does little to clarify the definitions. It states, unhelpfully, that it,

“outlines the current situation and the Department’s informal view on these matters”.

In other words, the descriptions provided have no basis and are open to challenge. For instance, it states:

“There is a misconception that the premium”—


on council tax—

“is easy to avoid by simply placing some furniture into a property. We do not have evidence that this is the case. ‘Substantially unfurnished’ is not defined in council tax legislation, but is used for the purposes of the empty homes discount regime and the empty homes premium”.

So it says that, while there is no evidence that people are putting furniture into property, “substantially unfurnished” is not defined. I am seeking a definition. If these penalties or premiums on council tax are to be raised significantly, local authorities require further guidance on what “substantially unfurnished” means.

The letter further states:

“Local authorities will have formed their own views on the definitions”—


which of course may result in a multitude of definitions of “substantially unfurnished”, and that could lead in turn to disputes. I quote again from the letter:

“A property which is substantially unfurnished is unlikely to be occupied or be capable of occupation. A property which is capable of occupation can reasonably be expected to contain some, if not all, items from both of the following categories: furniture such as bed, chairs, table, wardrobe or sofa, and white goods such as fridge, freezer or cooker”.


Noble Lords will recognise that properties which are left unoccupied often contain such items as are listed, as they are nowhere near as valuable as they once were and so are not worth removing.

The letter goes on to explain further checks that can be made. For instance, it suggests that,

“it will be reasonable for the local authority to cross-check with the electoral roll, or ask for evidence, such as utility bills showing usage of services, driving licence as proof of address, or receipts or other proof of moving costs”.

Of course, that means that the owner can be traced—but in my experience of properties in the neighbourhood where I live, certainly long-term empty properties, that is often not the case. I am sure that the Minister knows that many property owners now live abroad and are difficult to contact. Certainly, my experience of the electoral roll is that it is not a sure test of occupancy in either direction.

In our view, the Government have a responsibility through regulations to provide guidance to billing authorities on how to determine whether a dwelling is unoccupied or substantially unfurnished. The financial cost to an owner of a dwelling that has been classed as unoccupied could be significant, so natural justice demands that local authorities have that legal guidance. Failure to provide such guidance may result in local authorities not using the powers provided for in the Bill, for fear of a legal challenge and the inability to get the supporting evidence. This would undermine the whole purpose of the Bill, the direction of which I support: namely, to try to get empty homes back into use by families, whether in the relatively short term or the very long term, and to cut the need for the building of even more homes on greenfield or green-belt land. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Lord very much for putting down lots of Questions: my officials will be doing cartwheels at the news. However, there is a serious point behind what he is putting forward and I absolutely accept that this is a national issue. Our officials will certainly be speaking, if they have not already—I suspect they may have done—to Welsh and Scottish officials to see what is being done there. We are taking it urgently. I will cover this in more detail in a letter: it is certainly very much on the radar though I had not expected that it would come up in this context—and I should have. I will make sure that we get some more detail in the letter and I thank noble Lords for raising this. I realise now that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, who is not in his place, raised a similar issue in Questions today. I could not quite understand what he was getting at but I understand now and I apologise to him. We will make sure that he gets the letter as well.

Given that, and the fact that I and my department take this seriously, I ask the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Pinnock]

I thank everybody for a really interesting and stimulating debate. My noble friend Lord Shipley raised some issues. I am glad that my proposal has gained support because this affects all areas of the country that have large numbers of second homes, including in the north—the Lake District, for instance. We have all noted the new definition of “seriously considered”. I look forward to this being seriously considered.

I brought the definition of “unoccupied” and “substantially unfurnished” to the attention of the Committee because, with the rise in the premium, it is more likely that there will be challenges from owners that their homes are furnished and all the rest of it. Therefore, it would be helpful to local authorities to have more definite clarity on this, rather than an information letter. I think that could be achieved. I know that from time to time the department sends guidance notes to local authorities, which have greater import than information letters. That would give them something to fall back on if they are challenged, as I think may well happen. Those are the reasons for my endeavours this afternoon but I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 11 withdrawn.

Grenfell Tower

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

Monday 11th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement made earlier in the other place by his right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government. I shall start where the Minister finished: as he said in the Statement, when we say “never again” we mean it, and that is absolutely paramount.

As the Minister said, the fire happened a year ago next Thursday, and the total of 72 people is the biggest loss of life in Britain due to a fire since the Second World War. Recently I watched the “Panorama” programme, which brought back the images of what happened that night. It was a truly horrific and terrible event and all our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. Every time we have a Statement on Grenfell, our thanks go out to everyone in the local community who has helped: the civil servants, the staff from the borough council and from other councils, the faith sector, the charities, and the community who have come together to help this part of north Kensington to move on and try to get lives back on track.

Having said that, here we are a year on and still more than half the Grenfell survivors are in either hotel rooms or temporary accommodation. I accept entirely that the Minister would not want to see that but it is still not a good situation to find themselves in. There are also more than 300 other tower blocks with the same unlawful cladding on them and so far only 10 have had it removed or replaced. We are not sure where we stand with the private sector, where there are even more such blocks. This is not a good place to be. It is fair to say that the residents of Grenfell Tower were failed long before the fire, and some of them clearly feel that they have been failed since. Actually, if I am right, only 82 residents out of the 209 are in permanent replacement homes, and that is just not good enough.

I believe the North Kensington Law Centre has released a document saying that even in the new homes there are defects in terms of damp and delayed repairs, while some of the tenancies that have been offered are not the same that the residents had at Grenfell Tower. I do not know if that is the case, but if it is then it really needs to be corrected; they should be offered exactly the same tenancies that they had in the tower.

Does the department now have any sort of estimate or deadline for when people will be permanently rehoused? To start with, the Prime Minister talked about getting it done in a matter of weeks, but that has been extended and extended. I know that in the last Statement the Government talked about a year’s time, but at what point do they now see everyone getting into a new home and being able to start to rebuild their lives? We do not want to be back here again in the autumn not much further forward.

On the question of the other high-rise blocks, only 10 local authority tower blocks out of more than 300 have had their cladding replaced. The Government said they would do everything it takes to “keep our people safe”, so in that sense I welcome the £400 million funding that the Minister has announced to remove the cladding. It has come from another budget but it is still welcome. I also welcome the intention to ban combustible material on the outside of tower blocks. Is that all the Government are going to do, though, or are they going to go further? There has been talk before of looking at retrofitting sprinklers in tower blocks. I do not know if the Government are thinking about those sorts of things. Where are we on the question of evacuation procedures in blocks of flats? When will we be in a position to confirm that all blocks of flats are safe?

I was pleased with the important point that the Minister made about the private blocks, which has our full support: blocks in the private sector have to be corrected as well and those costs should not be passed on to the leaseholders. I welcome that.

On the inquiry itself, the tributes to the victims and families were very moving. I wish the inquiry well as it has a very important job to do. After that there will of course be the result of the police investigation, but I will leave it there.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I remind your Lordships’ House of my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association and as a Kirklees councillor.

Seventy-two men, women and children tragically died in the Grenfell Tower fire. Our responsibility to their memories and to those who survive is to seek the truth, secure justice and make the radical change to culture and practice so that no such fire occurs ever again.

Last week, I met representatives of Grenfell United and listened. I was struck by their quiet determination and by the inspiring leadership of their fellow survivors. They want all the facts before, during and after the disaster to be exposed to the full light of day. Then, those responsible for the decisions that enabled the fire to be so catastrophic must be brought to justice.

All these issues are, of course, the subject of the Grenfell Tower inquiry and we must wait for it to hear the evidence and draw its conclusions. However, what is clear so far is the painfully slow response of the Government to the consequences of this disaster. One year on, some of the survivors are still living in hotel accommodation and have been for a whole year. There is no chance for them even to attempt to start their lives again.

From the information I was given by Grenfell United, some of the accommodation purchased by Kensington and Chelsea Council was totally inappropriate. Perhaps the Minister will comment on the information I heard that one of the survivors was allocated a basement flat with no direct access to daylight. Does he regard this as appropriate in the circumstances of what those families had already endured?

Then there is the issue of the dangerous cladding. I welcome the proposal for a ban on ACM cladding in today’s Statement and that a consultation will begin shortly. This is really positive but this cladding continues to be on many public and private buildings. It is reported in the press that 32 NHS hospitals, several hotels and at least one school, as well as 132 private sector and 208 public sector tower blocks, have this dangerous cladding. Can the Minister assure the House that all these buildings will have the cladding removed as quickly as possible so that people who live or work in them can have some improved peace of mind? Meanwhile, can the Minister explain what actions are being recommended to provide additional safety in these buildings and information as to whether those in the public sector will have compensatory government payments for all their additional costs? As many people will know, fire safety wardens are being employed 24 hours a day, seven days a week, to ensure that no fire starts in these buildings and that, if one does, prompt action can be taken. This will be a huge additional cost in the social housing sector. Can the Government assure us that all buildings with this cladding have been identified, with the owners acknowledging their responsibility, and that the Government will monitor that effective remedial action has or will be taken in a timely way? If we are not careful, the curse of this cladding will continue for years to come.

On this day, our thoughts and prayers are with all those people—residents and rescuers—whose lives have been indelibly scarred by this disaster.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

Before the Minister responds, I make clear that I am also a vice-president of the Local Government Association.

Rating (Property in Common Occupation) and Council Tax (Empty Dwellings) Bill

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 4th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I refer to my register of interests as a councillor on Kirklees Council in West Yorkshire and as a vice-president of the Local Government Association.

This short Bill will make two important changes to local taxation. First, there is the proposed change to the definitions of the qualification for business rates. As the Minister said, this is in response to a legal judgment. It is a pity that the Government have not used the opportunity of this minor reform to grasp the bigger nettle of a radical overhaul of business rates. This has been raised several times in your Lordships’ House over the last few years. Each time we are told that the Government agree that reform is needed but we are not getting a proposal for such radical change. The longer the Government delay, the more likely it becomes that high streets up and down the country will see more empty retail properties. What is desperately needed is a level playing field for retail businesses. Global online retailers currently enjoy a significant advantage over high-street retailers. This injustice urgently needs to be addressed and I wonder whether the Minister will be able to say when the Government intend to tackle this problem.

In a more direct response to the Bill, I acknowledge that it seeks to be crystal clear about the definition of “property in common occupation”. However, it may be that further anomalies will result from this definition. Is the Valuation Office Agency satisfied that the proposals will work in practice? Obviously, local authorities now rely on income from business rates in a way that they have not previously. Have the Government assessed the financial changes that might result, and are any individual local authorities significantly affected? Perhaps the Minister will be able to give some indication of the consequences for local authorities. For instance, he has said that about 1,000 businesses are affected. However, if these are all clustered in a couple of areas, that might have a significant impact on those local authorities.

Turning to the second element of the Bill, the proposal for a potential 100% premium on council tax for long-term empty properties is welcome. The huge need for more housing justifies this change. However, tackling the problem of empty homes effectively is more difficult than just making an additional charge on properties. There are too many empty homes, and that applies not just to the well-publicised issue of the buy-to-invest market in London. In some parts of the country—mainly former industrial heartlands—housing is not at a premium, and in these towns and cities additional council tax might not help the problem. In such a case, we seek further remedies which this proposal will not address.

Tackling the problem of homes left empty for more than two years needs more than this single approach. The empty homes development orders have not proved an effective tool for many councils because they are complex and costly to invoke. For example, in my own council area there were—I hope it is “were”— 2,113 empty properties recorded at the beginning of this year out of a total of nearly 200,000 properties. Of those, 722 have been empty for more than two years and 117 for more than 10 years. So the change proposed in the Bill, although an important measure, is applicable for Kirklees in only one-third of the empty homes, and I have seen no evidence that the proportion across the country is not similar. Therefore, the Bill will address the difficulty of tackling the problem of empty homes in relation to probably just one-third of homes that are indeed empty.

The next issue that requires a bit more clarification is the definition of an “empty home”. The Bill describes it as one that is unoccupied and substantially unfurnished for two years or more. Perhaps the Minister can describe in more detail what is meant by “substantially unfurnished” and “unoccupied”. For instance, there is a property in my council ward where the owner stays for the weekend perhaps once or twice a year. Throughout the rest of the year it remains unoccupied and totally unvisited, but furniture has been left in the property. I am told that this has been the case for more than nine years. There needs to be a recognition that, even with this additional council tax premium, it is probably financially beneficial for some properties to be kept empty because of property value increases. If your property is going to increase by more than, say, £2,000 or £3,000 a year, it is beneficial for you to leave it empty and pay the council tax premium.

There is broad support for both elements of this Bill but a feeling that, in both cases, it is a missed opportunity for more significant reform.

East Suffolk (Local Government Changes) Order 2018

Baroness Pinnock Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2018 Grand Committee

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I do not want to add to the comments made by anybody who knows something about Suffolk, like my noble friend Lady Scott of Needham Market. I just remind the Committee of my interests as a councillor in Yorkshire and as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. The comment I want to make is that I have attended a number of these sessions where, as a Committee, we have considered mergers or boundary reviews and, in every instance, the existing local councils involved make claims about the savings that will be made and services that will be more efficient and that residents will be happy with the general situation. My question is: do the Government or the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government do a review post hoc to test whether this is in fact the case? We always accept these claims at face value, and we have a very specific claim here about the savings that will be made. No doubt that is the intention of the councils involved, but my experience of what council officers claim and what actually happens is that they can often diverge. If such reviews do take place, I would really like to have access to them and, if they do not, I suggest that they are undertaken, partly because the funding savings that will be made are very specific. Councils always also make claims about efficiency of service provision, which may well be the case, but does anybody ask after the event whether it is the case?

I share some of the concerns expressed earlier, among all the comments that have been made, about the confusion of local government now and whether we are losing the “local” from local government. The area where I am a councillor, for example, serves 450,000 residents—it is a unitary, metropolitan council—and my ward serves 13,000 electors, so some 17,000 residents. This is compared with some local authorities where the wards will be considerably smaller. We have to ask the question about whether there is a democratic deficit for people in some parts of the country. How local is local government? There is, I think, a debate to be had between getting scale and service provision and losing the local touch, which democracy requires if it is going to work well. With those comments—well, questions—I will end what I have to say.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords very much indeed for their contributions in relation to these issues affecting Suffolk. I will deal with the contributions in the order that they were made, if I may. I turn first to my noble friend Lord Tebbit, with his personal experience of St Edmundsbury Borough Council—an excellent council in a lovely part of the country. My noble friend quite correctly said that this is de facto catching up with de jure, because this has been the position for a long while. I also remind all noble Lords that these proposals are locally led. This is not a government imposition of what we would like to see; this is something that is locally led so, in relation to the local democracy element, that is very important.

I am very happy as the Minister for Faith to be presiding over this union, this coming together, of these two parties—