Jammu and Kashmir: Human Rights Abuses

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Monday 23rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Lord that we encourage all states, including India and Pakistan, to uphold their international human rights obligations. Any allegations of human rights violations or abuses are concerning and must be investigated thoroughly, promptly and transparently. Let me once again reassure all noble Lords that we continue to raise the issue of Kashmir, including human rights issues, with the Governments of India and Pakistan. We stand resolute. We hope that a progressive way forward on this issue can be found for both countries and, as a friend to both, we will be supportive.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister note the accusation in the report that India has used disproportionate force and that no successful cases have been brought against its forces, including over the accusation of mass rape, and that Pakistan must also address human rights abuses on its side? Should not the UK play a more active role in taking forward what the commission suggests, which is a proper investigation of what has happened on both sides?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Baroness that we have of course noted the concerns about Kashmir expressed in the report by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and its recommendations, as the noble Baroness said, for the Governments of both India and Pakistan to consider. Therefore, we encourage both states to uphold human rights in line with their human rights obligations. In terms of any resolutions that come forward at the Human Rights Council, we will respond accordingly.

Violent Extremism

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 28th June 2018 Grand Committee

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, thank my noble friend Lord Purvis for bringing us this topic today and the British Council All-Party Parliamentary Group for producing this thoughtful and extensive report. I pay tribute to all that the British Council does around the world. I am currently hoping that we can encourage the British Council back into Angola, but here we are looking further north, at the Middle East and north Africa.

A number of years ago, DfID shifted its focus to the poorer sub-Saharan African countries, but we now see the importance of investment in what the EU terms our near neighbourhood. What happens in the MENA region is important in itself but also has a direct effect on Europe, as the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, emphasised. Discontent, conflict and poverty in the region have been driving migration into Europe. Violence in the region has spilled over into our continent.

Yet, as others have said, there was great optimism and excitement when the Arab spring swept through the region. Regimes that seemed completely entrenched were suddenly overthrown. That enthusiasm for what might have seemed possible turned sour as those who rose up, divided and inexperienced as they were, were not well placed to take advantage of the overthrow of dictatorial regimes. It enabled others to take their place and made regimes very wary of similar movements. That can be clearly seen in Egypt; Libya descended into bloody chaos; and Saudi Arabia clamped down on dissent. Some positive developments can be seen in some countries, including Tunisia and Morocco, but things are very fragile, as the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, noted.

It is excellent that the British Council has sought to engage across these countries. Young people, better educated than their parents, with expectations that their lives would be different and with the information they could now glean from social media—something that had contributed to the rapid spread of the Arab spring—have often found that their opportunities are in fact extremely limited. Unemployment was and remains unacceptably high and, in such circumstances, discontent and disconnect are fostered.

The report emphasises that violent extremism needs to be tackled upstream. This is surely compelling, although it poses huge challenges, since only the thorough-going social, political and economic reform of these countries would be likely to achieve this. The economic challenges of the demographic youth bulge, high youth unemployment and the serious education and skills deficits to which the report points are difficult to tackle without huge investment. Tinkering around the edges will not do this. The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, is surely right about long-term engagement—what he calls stickability. I note the need for research into the wider causes of extremism and how best to tackle them. Can the Minister fill us in on both the UK and the EU’s financial contribution to north Africa? I am not asking for the rest of the Middle East to be added in, as the huge investment into Syria and the Palestinian Territories will obscure what investment is going into north Africa.

The report concludes that fostering the economic growth of the region, encouraging investment and improving the jobs market are vital. So, too, is investing in education and skills, including for women and girls, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, rightly noted. The report emphasises the importance of higher education for the already educated Syrian refugees. Can the noble Lord comment on what is being done in regard to this group?

Clearly, corruption and injustice not only undermine young people’s view of their countries and their futures but make it difficult to encourage inward investment. Can the noble Lord tell us where the MENA countries are in the ease-of-doing-business tables—maybe the ones particularly across north Africa?

As we know from the United Kingdom—for example, as we seek to tackle destructive knife crime—systematic engagement is vital. Even so, young people do not necessarily calibrate things as we might expect. Getting them safely to their mid-20s helps. Serious engagement on identity politics and ideology, as my noble friend Lady Suttie emphasised, is clearly vital. It is not a simple economic matter. I was very glad to receive from the British Council its full response to the report. It is clearly well placed to play a key role here and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s reply.

BBC Persian Staff

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Tuesday 12th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right. The human rights situation—I speak as the Human Rights Minister—is dire not just for the people of other nationalities or joint nationality, as the case that he has pointed to illustrates, but for Iranians themselves. We have seen the persecution of minority communities, including Christians and Baha’is, continuing in Iran. Our attitude, which I think is the right one, is that we will persevere with our bilateral exchanges directly with the Iranians and we will continue to raise this matter through international fora, including the Human Rights Council, as I have done most recently.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, many in the BBC Persian service are dual nationals. The noble Lord made very brief reference to Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, who has dual nationality. She has now been in prison for 800 days, and yesterday marked her daughter’s fourth birthday. Can the noble Lord be a bit more expansive about what the Government are doing to seek her release, especially after the flurry of activity in various directions last year by the Foreign Secretary?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure that I speak for all noble Lords——I speak as a parent, too—when I say that our hearts go out to a young child whose parent was absent for a notable birthday, and our compassion goes out to the family. Many sensitivities are associated with the case that the noble Baroness raises and other consular cases, but I reassure her that we regularly raise the case of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, as well as other cases, and we will continue to do so. The issue of dual nationals is pertinent because Iran does not recognise dual nationality.

Palestinian Territories

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 7th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank my noble friend, Lord Steel, for securing this debate and his immensely statesmanlike introduction to it. All contributing have expressed their hopes for a peaceful way forward, even if there is disagreement over what that route forward might be and what the underlying issues are. I share the view of noble Lords that this is a very dangerous situation for Palestinians and Israelis, as well as their neighbours in the region and far wider than that—for all of us.

This has been an intractable problem: a homeland established for one group after the horrors of the Nazi period, to which the noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, rightly referred, while displacing another. But both my noble friend Lord Steel and the noble Marquis, Lord Lothian, referred to the only partial delivery of the Balfour Declaration.

I, like others, pay tribute to Israel’s success in establishing itself so quickly as a prosperous nation in the region, but the UK Government have long contributed through their aid to the consequences of that settlement, the history of which noble Lords have referred to, through their support to those now in the West Bank and Gaza, or in refugee camps elsewhere in the region. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, I pay tribute to DfID and many organisations for their work in Gaza and the OPTs.

Recognising international law, the UK Government condemn illegal settlements which undermine the possibility of a two-state solution. They have objected to the inflammatory move of the US embassy to Jerusalem, to which my noble friend Lady Ludford and others referred. Many here seem to agree that the best resolution is a two-state solution, even though things are reaching a point where this may no longer be viable, as the noble Lords, Lord Hain and Lord Singh, so clearly outlined.

One strong recommendation has emerged in this debate: that one step towards establishing that two-state solution must be to recognise Palestine. I urge the Minister to get the UK Government to do what 130 other Governments around the world have done; that is, to recognise the state of Palestine, as my noble friends Lord Steel and Lady Sheehan, the noble Lords, Lord Cope, Lord Hannay and Lord Warner, and the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, and others have urged. This is my party’s position after much fiercely argued debate. I know the government formulation, as I used it in the coalition: “when the time is right”. When my noble friend Lord Steel describes the language as weak, the Minister will understand; I have seen his wry smile and that of his officials, to whom I know I should not refer. Sir Vincent Fean, Britain’s official representative to the Palestinian Authority until he retired in 2014, has said that,

“the time is right for the United Kingdom to recognise the state of Palestine … If we choose to act decisively, we change the dynamic in the EU and at the UN … a further abstention is abdicating responsibility”.

The region is a tinderbox—we have often said that. Syria, the outflow of refugees into neighbouring states which have supported Palestinian refugees for decades, the instability across the MENA region, the pulling of the rug from the Iran nuclear deal, unpredictability in Saudi Arabia, the blockade of Qatar: all should concern us.

This spring has marked 70 years since the time that the Palestinians mark as a disaster, and protests have built on the Gazan border. As Oxfam notes, while Hamas may have then endorsed and encouraged such protests, there is no doubt of the asymmetry on the two sides of the Gazan border. The excessive force used by the Israeli forces has been shocking and disproportionate, as others have said. Since the first Gaza protest on 30 March, Israeli forces have killed more than 128 Palestinians and injured more 13,000. Fifteen children have been killed. One Israeli soldier has been lightly injured.

According to WHO, 245 health personnel have been injured and, as we have heard, 40 ambulances have been hit. Noble Lords have referred to the death of the first responder. I echo my noble friend Lady Sheehan’s questions as to whether the Israeli Government have clarified that and what action is being taken to hold to account those responsible for her killing.

Israel has argued that Hamas has manipulated the protests to present a threat to the border and intended to attack Israeli civilians inside Israel. Human rights groups have argued that Israel has failed to demonstrate a clear threat to life that warranted the use of lethal force. That is why a full independent international investigation is required. Surely the Minister agrees.

This must also be a time to address not only the immediate crisis in Gaza but the deep-seated challenges there, as my noble friend Lady Sheehan, the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, and the noble Lord, Lord Judd, spelled out. Since 2007, Gaza has been blockaded. The economy of the territory has collapsed. As noble Lords have referred to, David Cameron noted in 2010 that Gaza had become a “prison camp”.

As other noble Lords have noted, in August 2012 an UNRWA report found that, without radical changes, Gaza would be unliveable by 2020. In 2015, the World Bank reported that the unemployment rate in Gaza was the highest in the world—not a recipe for stability. Others have spelled out conditions there. The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, gave a moving account of the psychological damage done to those in Gaza, especially children, as did my noble friend Lady Janke. It is in Israel’s as well as the Palestinians’ long-term interest to build the economy of Gaza and not to strangle it.

Although Gaza has seen the acute recent crisis, the ongoing challenges in the West Bank remain unresolved. Illegal settlement expansion continues. Only a few days ago, on 30 May, almost a further 2,000 settlement housing units were approved. A European Union report from the end of last year found that Israel added nearly 8,000 housing units in the West Bank, including east Jerusalem, in the first half of 2017. New guidelines for settlement building have been issued, allowing for faster expansion with greater geographical spread than before. Demolition of Palestinian homes continues. I note that the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, stated on 1 June:

“Palestinians have found it virtually impossible to obtain building permits in Area C of the West Bank, an unacceptable situation that leaves them with little option except to build without permission”.


Then there is the issue of Jerusalem. Trump’s unilateral decision to recognise Jerusalem as simply the capital of Israel has serious implications for the peace process. At the end of last year, the UN General Assembly rejected Trump’s action. We know the threats made by the Americans to countries that received aid. President Trump has cut funding to UNRWA—again, noble Lords have referred to that. As the noble Lord, Lord Luce, pointed out, the US has abdicated its position as a mediator. President Trump cannot act as an honest broker in this situation, capable of delivering a two-state solution. Indeed, the Vice-President, Mike Pence, has said publicly that,

“we don’t want to be a broker. A broker doesn’t take sides … America’s on the side of Israel”.

I note what the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, said about the need for new and braver leaders on both sides. Surely the noble Lord, Lord Luce, is right when he argues that it is in everyone’s interest that European countries take the lead. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, made the point that Europe has the most to lose and the most to gain from such engagement. Clearly, our pulling out of the EU does not help, but to leave it to the two parties to the conflict to resolve this by themselves does not recognise the imbalance of strength between them and is therefore unlikely to lead to a stable settlement. I note what the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester said—that Israel cannot see a solution—and the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, noted that the Israeli Government seemed to have “no plan” in this regard, as settlement expansion undermined lip service paid to a two-state solution. There is often in these debates an element of whataboutery. It is because of that that we need international engagement that is not partisan, as the US has now declared itself to be.

This has been an intractable problem leading to instability, fear and lack of security on both sides in the region. That is why the human rights and dignity of all individuals must be recognised and international law respected. Full international engagement, especially from Europe, in this situation is essential so that brave steps are taken, progress can be made and we do not have to have endless repeats of this debate today.

Iran and Saudi Arabia: Co-operation on Syria and Yemen

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The right reverend Prelate makes an important point. There are many wise voices when it comes to the tragic conflict that we sometimes see being played out by different denominations within the context of Islam. I remind noble Lords that there are 73 different denominations in Islam, but Shia and Sunnis represent the majority. In this regard, any dialogue is positive. A few months back, as part of my responsibilities at the Foreign Office, I looked at the important issue of countering extremism. Together with the Vatican, we invited to Rome scholars from both the Sunni and Shia voices of Islam to give productive and practical suggestions on the way forward.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom, with its European partners, is seeking to retain the Iran nuclear deal. Might this be a time to encourage Iran to be constructive in both Syria and Yemen, and to release dual nationals, including Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Taking the noble Baroness’s final point first, I can assure her and the House that we continue to raise consular cases with Iran at every opportunity. On the wider point of engagement, she is right that we that we have been working with our partners to ensure that the Iranian nuclear deal remains live and will continue to do so. In our most recent discussions, the Foreign Secretary had a conversation with Foreign Minister Zarif about the importance of also ensuring that Iran plays its role in, for example, ensuring the Assad regime comes to the table in Geneva so that we can get the kind of peace we are all seeking for the people of Syria.

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulks (Con)]

My Lords, I endorse everything that the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, rightly said. These matters were a concern across party in both the House of Commons and your Lordships’ House. The Magnitsky law was somewhat incomplete after the Criminal Finances Bill was enacted, and this is a necessary completion of those reforms. I share the noble Lord’s concern that, in our enthusiasm, we must not lose sight of the need for safeguards. This measure seems to be welcome not only here but in a number of other jurisdictions, and I agree that we should continue to do all we can to encourage its take-up worldwide.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, we, too, welcome Amendment 1 and the consequential amendments, which are the concession made by the Government in the Commons explicitly to include gross human rights abuses in the Bill, recognising the vote in the House of Lords led by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and others. We also welcome Amendment 16, which deals with the concern raised by the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation and the Joint Committee on Human Rights. We also welcome Amendment 17, requiring the Government to make periodic reports on the use of powers to make sanctions. How frequently may those occur and what form may they take? Most of all, I thank the Government for listening to the views expressed here and hope that we can take heart in relation to other legislation and votes we have seen in recent times.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, welcome government Amendment 1 and its associated amendments and applaud the Minister for the way he has spoken forthrightly on the human rights agenda and stewarded the Bill, which is a case study in how a Government and a Minister should and can respond to amendments from the Opposition, the Liberal Democrats and Cross-Benchers.

At the same time, I crave the indulgence of the Minister, the Whip sitting next to him and your Lordships’ House in returning to a subject which I have raised before—which, I am authoritatively told, has had some impact on the welcome change in the leadership of South Africa. This week marks South African President Cyril Ramaphosa’s first 100 days in office. I will be brief, but the official state money laundering and corruption virus he inherited from President Zuma is significantly more virulent and pervasive than even Ramaphosa could have anticipated, made immeasurably worse by the complicity of UK-based global corporates.

Take Hogan Lovells, the international law firm headquartered here in London and in Washington, its role starkly exposed in documents recently released to the parliamentary finance committee in South Africa. In your Lordships’ House, Report on the Bill on 15 January, I first criticised its role for whitewashing corruption by Tom Moyane, chief of the South African Revenue Service, now suspended by the new President. According to these documents, Hogan Lovells kept silent even when its findings related to money laundering and corruption by Moyane’s former deputy, Jonas Makwakwa, and even after Moyane misled the South African Parliament. Through its despicable, fee-grabbing complicity, Hogan Lovells spared these two notorious perpetrators of state capture in South Africa from accountability for their complicity in, and cover up of, serious criminal behaviour, including money laundering and corruption.

At the same time, Hogan Lovells has been undermining the criminal justice system in a series of other cases, as proven by the fearless Forensics for Justice NGO investigator, Paul O’Sullivan. Effectively, Hogan Lovells was acting as former President Zuma’s legal fudger-in-chief.

Brave investigative journalist Pauli van Wyk has exposed lies by the senior partner of Hogan Lovells in South Africa, Mr Lavery Modise. In the Daily Maverick, she pointed out:

“Despite having the benefit of the report by Price Waterhouse Coopers (who actually conducted the investigation), Modise and his team ultimately charged Makwakwa with everything he could explain, and with exactly nothing that he previously struggled to explain, or simply refuse to account for”.


Indeed, the more serious allegations in the PwC report were carefully filtered out of Hogan Lovells’s report, and the firm did not point out that Moyane was preventing critical evidence from being given to PwC.

Hogan Lovells’s most specious piece of lawyer sophistry was to claim that it could look only at the employer-employee issue involved and not at any criminal issue, giving the excuse that the employee, Makwakwa, could otherwise implicate himself. Surely all good employers, and indeed employees, should report on any criminality at their workplace, and surely even more so in the vital state revenue agency when the crime relates to money laundering and tax evasion. Effectively, Hogan Lovells turned a blind eye to the looting of the tax agency. It took a fat fee and ignored the truth. Most astonishing to me is that Hogan Lovells still refuses to acknowledge, let alone apologise for, its complicity, thereby actively supporting those still trying to undermine President Ramaphosa’s reform programme.

The behaviour of Hogan Lovells in South Africa is a classic example of a British-based company obfuscating its behaviour, using the complexities afforded by the law, including client confidentiality, to conceal the crimes of money laundering and corruption. Hogan Lovells fits exactly the behaviour exposed by investigator Pauli van Wyk when she concluded:

“The tale of State Capture ... co-exists in a mutually parasitic relationship where the public purse is the feeding ground and corporates are the enablers and agents of whitewash”.


British based corporates such as Hogan Lovells should be supporting, not thwarting, President Ramaphosa’s anti-money laundering agenda.

The Solicitors Regulatory Authority has now declared that Hogan Lovells South Africa is a “connected party” to its UK firm and I therefore request—I hope that I will have the Minister’s support—that the SRA withdraws recognition from Hogan Lovells UK and suspends its UK senior partners from practising here for its scandalous activities in South Africa. I also ask British Ministers to ensure that Hogan Lovells UK receives no more UK public sector contracts until it at least apologises for its shameful and shameless South African role. Additionally I can report that, after I raised this matter at Second Reading in November, the Financial Conduct Authority has recently informed me that it is engaging with the whistleblower who has supplied evidence that I believe should see HSBC prosecuted for conspiracy for facilitating money laundering.

I conclude: unless Ministers ensure that there are penalties for UK-based corporates like Hogan Lovells, HSBC, the Bank of Baroda, Standard Chartered, Bell Pottinger, KPMG, McKinsey—and who knows how many others?—for their complicity in protecting criminals engaged in money laundering in the South African case, I am afraid this legislation will not be worth a candle.

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[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, as the Minister will know, and as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, expressed, the Delegated Powers Committee was very concerned about Amendments 11 and 12. I must say that I found it astonishing to read that yet again, at this late stage of the Bill, the same issues are coming up that we had at the beginning, and to hear the Delegated Powers Committee noting,

“the Department’s failure to explain the width of the powers being granted, and why it is not possible to limit the powers … and to specify on the face of the Bill the persons who are to exercise the powers”.

I hear what the Minister says. I note that the Delegated Powers Committee is reluctantly saying that, if the Lords accepts the way that these amendments have come forward, the powers should be subject to the affirmative procedure in both cases. I wonder what the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, makes of the amendments.

[Lord Pannick]

I am very disappointed—at other noble Lords are—at the approach of the Government. All these points were fully debated at Second Reading, in Committee and on Report, and the constant theme across the House was that it was vital to constrain the powers that Ministers were giving themselves in relation to the Bill. The Minister was very receptive to those concerns and accepted a number of amendments, and it is therefore very disappointing that at this very late stage we see again the same vice. So I share the disappointment and regret that, given the stage we are at, it is too late to do anything about it. But I hope that the Minister will take back to his department our concern and the promise—it is not a threat—that, if similar powers are put before us in another Bill, no doubt noble Lords will have more to say about it.

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[Lord Pannick]

My Lords, in the early stages of this Bill, my noble and learned friend Lord Judge, who is not in his place, expressed the concerns that many of us felt about Ministers being given a power to create new criminal offences and, indeed, to specify maximum sentences. I am very pleased that the Government have recognised a need for safeguards in this context. This is an exceptional circumstance, and I very much hope that the Government will not see this as a precedent to be used in other contexts.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, the potential creation of new criminal offences by Ministers was of course the subject of major debate in the Lords, and the Government were defeated. It is the Government’s compromise that we are considering here. I know that the Government and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, spent a great deal of time on this, as did my noble friend Lady Bowles. Noble Lords did not quite get to where they would have liked, but I know that they thought progress had been made. We are therefore content to accept the position that we have reached. However, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, makes an important point about this not being a precedent.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness who have spoken. When this issue left your Lordships’ House, I emphasised and assured noble Lords that we would continue to work, particularly, with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and officials continue to do so. Every time I saw him in a Division Lobby or outside it—often he was going in the opposite direction, but we will park that for a moment—he reassured me that progress was being made, and this is the culmination of that. I thank noble Lords for their support.

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[Baroness Hooper (Con)]

My Lords, with all due respect to those who have spoken against the amendment, anybody listening to the arguments that have been put forward in support of my noble friend Lord Naseby’s amendment would happily follow him into the Division Lobby should he decide to test the opinion of the House. I declare a long-standing interest in the overseas territories: I am a vice-chairman of the Overseas Territories All-Party Parliamentary Group and an officer of many of those for individual overseas territories.

It seems extraordinary that these territories, which keep all the required records available to be shown to the appropriate authorities, should be required to publish them as a result of what seems to have been a last-minute decision in the other place. I had not intended to speak to the amendment, but I was tempted to do so to show my support for the overseas territories and my noble friend’s amendment.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I will address the principles of this. The proposal was narrowly defeated in the Lords and has been debated for many years. Personally, I was delighted by the coalition across the parties in the Commons on this issue and I commend the Government on recognising that coalition. I especially commend the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, my noble friends Lady Kramer and Lord McNally, and others on their long fight on this issue. The transparency of public registers of beneficial ownership is the key issue and it will bring change. I have seen the positive effect of the unexpected spotlight provided, for example, by the Panama papers in some of the areas on which I focus in Africa. I have seen steady change and I welcome the decision to adopt public registers of beneficial ownership in the United Kingdom. London has not collapsed: Brexit may do more damage. I have seen the effect that bribery legislation in the United States, Europe and elsewhere has had on companies trading around the world and I have seen the change as a result, which we will see here too.

I recall some saying that the Bribery Act would differentially damage UK business. Ken Clarke saw those people off and rightly so. The noble Lord, Lord Naseby, did his right honourable friend Andrew Mitchell a disservice: he worked for many years in banking and spent many years supporting international development, so he does know both sides. Therefore our position is that we do not support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, for the reasons I have given of that change occurring across the world over time: it is very beneficial and if the overseas territories are concerned about losing that business then it is probably, as the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, indicated, business that they should not wish to have.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

My Lords, I might as well begin by declaring what is not really a direct interest. My father was born in Bermuda and his father was born in Bermuda, so I think that entitles me to go and live there at some point and not have to deposit the $30 million that I think is currently needed if you want to live there. It is a very nice island, and I do love it and I love its people.

This debate is a reflection of constitutional concerns. There are concerns over the rights of people to determine their own laws and no one can disagree with that. But it is also a very strong moral debate, because we know that developing countries lose three times as much in tax avoidance as they get in all the international aid that is available to them. That is the scandal of this world we now live in. The Paradise papers and the Panama papers highlighted just how much of an issue this really is, and that is why we have such huge public concern. If we want to break the business model of stealing money and hiding it in places where it cannot be seen, transparency is the answer. I agree completely with the words of David Cameron in 2013 when he spoke about ripping aside “the cloak of secrecy” and repeated the well-known mantra that “sunlight is the best disinfectant”. I think that that commitment by David Cameron in 2013 is what this debate is about.

Last week, I had the opportunity of meeting the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition of the British Virgin Islands. They made their case very strongly to me about their concerns over this amendment. However, whatever position you are taking constitutionally, no matter what the concerns are, there is one thing that everyone agrees on, and that is that the scandal of money flowing out of countries and being hidden is something that has to stop. The Prime Minister of the British Virgin Islands acknowledges that transparency is important. We have heard about the actions of Bermuda and other places. David Cameron was actually trying to change the global position, to get to a position where we would have global agreement on addressing this issue.

How do we get global agreement? David Cameron believed it was by giving a lead. There is an issue here about reputation and being able to influence things. While we are in the European Union and saying, “You’ve got to ensure that all territories within the European Union comply with this”, and when we are in other global fora, we should be able to say that we will be acting on this. We know that the excuse of the overseas territories is often used by others to say, “If you’re not doing it there, why should we do it here?”. That is something that we have to address.

I absolutely understand the need to ensure that all the territories have the proper opportunity to consider this, but this is something that they have been acting on for some time. I respect the Minister’s undertaking to ensure that they have the necessary means as well as the necessary policy and advice.

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure the House willed that I move this formally but for good order I should speak to it, although I am sure I am not expressing the Deputy Speaker’s sentiments in any way.

This group contains the remainder of the amendments to the Bill made in the other place. Amendment 26 seeks to clarify the interaction of the powers in the sanctions Bill and the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. It has been prompted by amendments to the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill tabled by the Government during its passage. Amendment 26 does not change the intent of the sanctions Bill, nor does it change the scope of the powers contained in the Bill. It makes clear that any restrictions in the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill on the modification of retained EU law do not prevent sanctions Bill powers being exercised as they were intended. The Government believe that the amendment is necessary to provide certainty and avoid any confusion about the interaction of the two Bills in this area.

Amendment 29 is a routine procedural amendment that removes the privilege amendment inserted in this House, which ensures that there are no amendments that would raise taxes or impose charges.

Amendment 24 makes changes to the ability to update the definition of terrorist financing, fulfilling a commitment that the Government made on Report in your Lordships’ House. It retains the ability to remove obsolete references from the definition, but restricts the ability to add new terrorist financing measures by way of sanctions regulations. Those new measures can now be added to the definition of terrorist financing only if the new measures are made either for the purpose of compliance with international obligations, or for the purpose of furthering the prevention of terrorism in the UK or elsewhere.

Noble Lords will be aware that Schedule 2 to this Bill, as already approved by your Lordships’ House, provides an express power permitting the Government to make anti-money laundering regulations that correspond or are similar to the money laundering regulations 2017, or to amend or revoke those regulations. These powers will enable the Government to update the UK’s anti-money laundering regime to reflect evolving international standards and address emerging risks.

Amendment 33 is also consequential on amendments to the EU withdrawal Bill, and confirms that these powers can be used once we leave the EU, in connection with the EU funds transfer regulation—which regulates payment service providers—and other EU-level legislation made under the fourth money laundering directive. This applies in particular to the existing EU list of high-risk third countries, in connection with which enhanced due diligence is required. This amendment provides legal certainty regarding the Government’s ability to update this legislation, which will be part of UK law, using the powers conferred through the Bill. This will ensure consistent treatment of the money laundering regulations 2017 and the closely interlinked legislation which also came into force last year. With those explanations, I beg to move.

[Baroness Northover]

I could say that I am going to test the opinion of the House, but I do not think that that would work. I just take the opportunity of this group to thank the Minister and the Bill team for their careful and constructive engagement on the Bill. Obviously, we would prefer that we were not having to take this legislation through, but if we leave the EU it will indeed be needed.

I also thank those on these Benches who have assisted on the Bill: my noble friends Lady Sheehan and Lord McNally and, especially on the anti-money laundering part, Lady Kramer and Lady Bowles, who single-handedly analysed and proposed restructuring of that part of the Bill and engaged with the Bill team and the Treasury, drawing on her experience as a former chair of the economics committee of the EU.

I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and his team, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, for their deep and constructive engagement.

As the Minister quickly discovered, although the subject matter of sanctions and anti-money laundering is not exactly controversial, the means of tackling it and the carryover into wider Brexit legislation in terms of powers taken meant that this was a forerunner to the EU withdrawal Bill. Above all, I thank the Minister and his team for their patience and engagement. Judging by the previous group, it sounds as though he still has much to do.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and again put on record my thanks to her—and to the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, in particular, on the issue of money laundering. In the same way, I extend my thanks to the Labour Front Bench, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and others in your Lordships’ House.

As I said when the Bill passed from your Lordships’ House, we have seen co-operation and your Lordships at their best. I said right at the beginning that we were in listening mode, and I think that has been reflected during the course of the Bill in both your Lordships’ House and the other place. I hope that the noble Baroness is also minded to note that we learn from the wise words of others such as the noble Lord, Lord McNally, and that in introducing this group, I resisted using the word “technical”. I commend the amendments.

United Nations Human Rights Council: Resolution on Gaza

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is quite right to say that the Government’s position has been, and remains, to support an independent and transparent investigation into recent events. In this case, we joined European allies—notably Germany, Slovakia, Hungary and Croatia—in abstaining on calls for a commission of inquiry. I made the reasons for our abstention clear in my opening remarks. To that end, we were concerned that the resolution as presented could not be perceived as balanced because it did not look to ensure that non-state actors were fully considered. We remain true to the fact, however, that we will continue to work through all channels, calling for an international investigation into the events in Gaza last week. There is, as the noble Lord will know, a UN resolution at the Security Council on the situation regarding Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. We are aware that Kuwait has also tabled a draft resolution. We are currently considering the text carefully and will make a decision on the way forward on that in due course.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, how does the noble Lord feel personally about this decision? He and his colleagues have repeatedly called for the facts to be established, so how does that square with abstaining on this matter? The Statement rightly asks for an independent and transparent investigation. Why, then, does it go on to ask one side—Israel—to carry this out?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, we made clear at the Human Rights Council the importance of any independent investigation. We sit on the Human Rights Council and we always stress the importance of co-operating, and we sought to do so. We did not vote against the resolution but abstained because we had reservations about the wording as it stood. We were not alone in that: I believe there was a total of 14 abstentions.

The noble Baroness asked about the Government’s position, which has been consistent. We want to see a resolution to the situation between Israel and the Palestinians, and we want to see an inquiry into the events that occurred last week in Gaza. Regrettably, children’s lives were lost. For that reason, we wanted to ensure that all material facts could be fully reviewed by any investigation that had been set up. We felt that the UN Human Rights Council resolution fell short of the requirement to ensure that any factors from the side of Hamas inciting others to act in this way were going to be fully considered. That was regrettable, and that is why the UK Government abstained from voting for the resolution.

Syria

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Tuesday 15th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Baroness that this is about eliminating ISIS, which is why the anti-Daesh coalition of 70-plus nations has managed to achieve that in Iraq. I have seen it at first hand myself. However, the perverse ideology of the hijacking of the noble faith remains. Therefore, we must prevent ISIS coming to the fore, not just in Iraq again—we must also eradicate it from Syria. However, I refute totally the allegation that the Government are supporting the regime. We are supporting organisations such as the White Helmets, which provide essential assistance, including sanitation and emergency health provision, to address the civilian population’s needs as a priority. That should be commended, not condemned.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, what discussions are the Government having with Russia and with President Erdoğan—who is here today—in engaging internationally with the Syrian peace process? What efforts are being made to de-escalate the conflict between Iran and Israel, which is so dangerous right now, in Syria?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is quite right: Turkey is also a key player in Syria, as we have seen through its engagement in Syria. Wide-ranging talks between the President of Turkey and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister will be under way shortly and Syria will be discussed. The noble Baroness raises an important point about engaging with Russia. As I have said previously from the Dispatch Box, we continue to do so at the United Nations, because they remain an important player. On the engagement of Iran and Israel in Syria, we implore all sides to show restraint. As the noble Baroness knows, we remain committed to the nuclear deal because we believe that to be the best way of ensuring Iran’s continued engagement and of finding a resolution further afield.

Gaza

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Tuesday 15th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend Alistair Burt said in another place, the United Kingdom Government support an independent and transparent process to establish exactly what happened, including why such a large volume of live fire was used. Given the importance of accountability, we want this to be both independent and transparent. On timelines, this is a UN process which needs to be agreed by all relevant parties. As that is updated, I shall inform the House and the noble Lord.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

I associate these Benches with the thoughts expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about those killed and injured. Under international law, firearms can be used only to protect against imminent threat of death or serious injury. Does the Minister agree that firing on unarmed civilians in Gaza, often at a great distance, must be fully and impartially investigated and that if the law has been broken those responsible must be held to account? His right honourable friend Alistair Burt, the Minister for the Middle East, referred earlier today to the “hopeless” and “desperate” conditions in Gaza. Does the noble Lord agree that the United Kingdom should give some glimmer of hope to Palestinians held in such conditions by recognising the state of Palestine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first, of course, I associate myself with the sentiments of the noble Lord and the noble Baroness. Our thoughts and prayers are with all the victims of the tragic deaths that have taken place. That said, on the issue of live fire, as I said in my opening remarks, we continue to implore the Israeli Government, while we respect their right to defend their borders, that the use of live fire should be considered only as a last resort. Indeed, this has been consistently mentioned at bilateral meetings directly with the Israeli Government.

The noble Baroness referred to the sentiments expressed by my right honourable friend in the other place. I visited both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories a few weeks ago and saw why it is very important that we make progress. As for providing hope, of course we continue to support UNRWA’s efforts to ensure that medical aid and assistance reaches Palestinian communities in Gaza and the West Bank. That is why we are supportive of Egyptian efforts to bring greater peace and reconciliation in Gaza and it is why we welcome the opening of the Egyptian border for a few days to relieve some of those efforts.

Iran Nuclear Deal

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating that Statement. Of course, as every independent inspection has confirmed, the nuclear deal is working; Iran is complying in full, so to suggest otherwise is simply false. On the back of the success of this deal we also have a platform to make real progress on the issues the Minister referred to: in particular Iran’s ballistic missile programme, its regional activities and its human rights record. In the other place Boris Johnson said that the US has decided that there is another way forward. I welcome the Minister’s commitment to get from the US exactly what that way forward is and what it means for international peace and security. The Minister also referred to the fact that there are signatories to this international agreement. One of the sad things about this is that the opinions of those in Iran who shout, “Never trust the West” will be reinforced by this decision.

Alistair Burt said on the “Today” programme that the UK strategy was to de-escalate and hold to the agreement, as the Minister said. However, that requires Britain, the EU, China and Russia to act in concert. Can the Minister tell us exactly how we will work in concert with them to urge Iran not to respond in kind to this confrontational act, but to work with all the signatories to the international agreement? Not least, how will we work with partners in the agreement to ensure that firms trading with Iran do not face financial penalties? We need to ensure that this agreement holds; we can only do that by working collaboratively with every signatory. I hope the Minister will be able to tell us just what the Foreign Secretary is doing to work with our EU allies, Russia and China.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord for repeating the Statement and welcome the fact that it is refreshingly frank and clear. On these Benches we share the widespread and huge concern over Donald Trump’s decision. We share the view that the JCPOA—to quote the Statement—remains “vital for our national security and the stability of the Middle East”. It is indeed ironic that the agreement with Iran is being jeopardised at exactly the same time as attempts are being made to de-escalate matters in North Korea. The Iran nuclear deal was hard-fought for; I pay tribute to our fellow Member of the House of Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, for her determination in seeing this through when others thought it was not possible. I am glad this is an area in which we are in lockstep with our European partners. Will the Minister say more about how we will make sure that Germany, France and the United Kingdom speak with one voice, and that China and Russia are in lockstep as well? If we are to stop Iran from walking away, that is surely vital.

Does the Minister agree that this situation plays into the hands of the hardliners in Iran, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has indicated? What assessment has been made of that? Does he agree that this is an incredibly dangerous time in the Middle East, with so many countries involved in Syria as well as a series of key anniversaries coming up? Could he confirm that the Government believe Iran was indeed in full compliance with the agreement and that this is indeed the view of the International Atomic Energy Agency? Does he agree that, if the United States or Israel had any evidence to the contrary, they needed to report that to the International Atomic Energy Agency?

What action is being taken to liaise with the US Administration, who clearly include some returning hardliners as well as most who have no influence whatsoever over the President? What discussions are occurring with Iranian officials? What plans are being made to tackle Iran’s potential development of nuclear weapons should the JCPOA collapse? Is there any clarity over whether UK companies would face legal proceedings in the United States if they remain involved in Iran—and what is being done to support them? What happens if they are in consortia with American companies or American parts in their supply chain? What happens if Iranian oil is removed from the global market? How are we addressing the impact of that? Can the Minister also comment on Saudi Arabia’s role? What assessment is being made of the risk that, should Iran pull back from this deal, Saudi Arabia will wish to proceed with its own nuclear programme?

This is a crisis where, once again, we see the enormous importance of our EU partners. Does the Minister agree that it is vital that this continues?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for their support for the Government’s position. I assure them both that the Government remain very committed to this agreement and to working with international partners to ensure that it is sustained. As I said in repeating the Statement, it has reaped benefits, particularly by stopping the development of nuclear weapons in Iran.

I shall take some of the questions in turn. I assure both the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, that we will continue to work very closely on the E3 front with our partners in Germany and France. In that regard, as I said in repeating the Statement, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has spoken to their Foreign Ministers. All noble Lords will have seen that the Prime Minister, my right honourable friend Theresa May, the President of France and the Chancellor of Germany issued a joint statement immediately after the announcement. How that plays out in Iran is important. It is very easy to say that you are against the West, but the West is a broad group of nations, of which we are one. I often hear the words “Islam against the West”, but I am a Muslim of the West. Does that make me a contradiction? No, it does not. The point is that we cannot speak too generally on this matter.

We have seen unity among the E3. When President Macron and Chancellor Merkel visited the United States, they consistently raised their wish to see the US remain a part of the nuclear deal, and it is extremely regrettable that it has not done so. As I said, it now remains for the US to clarify further the requirements that it wishes to see, but the framework of the deal must remain. In that respect, the noble Baroness asked a specific question about compliance. As was pointed out in the Statement, on nine occasions, the last being in February of this year, it was reported back by the appropriate agencies that there was compliance, and that continues to be the case.

The noble Lord asked about dealings with Russia and China. Through various organisations, including the United Nations, we will continue to have conversations in this regard, but they remain equally committed to this agreement as the stability of the region depends on it.

The noble Baroness asked about dealings with Iran. I can inform the House that earlier today my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to Foreign Minister Zarif to assure Iran of our continued commitment. I am sure many noble Lords heard President Rouhani’s statement. We often hear about the different voices in Iran but President Rouhani has underlined Iran’s commitment to stay within this deal.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness both asked about the implications for British companies, particularly those with United States counterparts. The Office of Foreign Assets Control in the US, which looks at how sanctions regimes apply, has already issued guidance to the financial services sector and we are currently evaluating that. As an initial step, we have issued immediate guidance to UK companies about reviewing their legal position with lawyers to ensure that they are compliant. At this juncture, I can share with noble Lords that there is a deferment date of between 90 and 180 days before the sanctions that the US imposes unilaterally become applicable. However, I will endeavour to keep your Lordships’ House informed about the implications of this decision, particularly for companies that may currently be investing or looking to invest in Iran and have international obligations.