Populism and Nationalism

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I too pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Bruce for setting down this debate and for opening it so effectively. There have been many thought-provoking contributions from noble Lords. In fact, they mostly seem to speak with one voice, and I expect that the Minister, upbeat though she no doubt will be, will share many of the concerns. That is at least something.

We are all acutely aware of the challenges facing us—the United Kingdom, Europe and the world. As a long-ago historian, I never subscribed to the notion that history was coming to a full stop in the late 1990s and that the liberal international order was duly spreading everywhere—a very ahistorical notion. Of course, the historians Trevelyan and Macaulay seemed to believe that history was just a story of progress, and you can see why: 19th-century improvements in living standards, more prosperity, more education and the franchise widening seemed to confirm that. For more people life was no longer nasty, brutal and short, at least in industrialising countries.

But then you have the 1930s and 1940s, with absolutely devastating destruction and appalling genocide. As the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds passionately pointed out, progress is not inevitable—a liberal internationalist order is not a given. The populist movements of the 1930s followed the terrible economic depression of the 1920s and 1930s, as my noble friend Lord Ashdown pointed out. Noble Lords will have to read his upcoming book to have that spelled out in greater detail.

So surely we should not be surprised that the banking crash of 2008-09 and the ensuing deep recession resulted in political and social shocks, especially as, as the noble Lords, Lord Tugendhat and Lord Risby, pointed out, those who were seen to be the cause were never held to account. If we see the rate and scale of change globally, we should not be surprised if social and political consequences result, as the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, pointed out.

However, there is clear agreement here that, whatever criticisms people may have of the UN, the EU or other international institutions, it has to be welcome that such transnational bodies were set up. The growth of international law—and international humanitarian law, in particular—since the Second World War and in reaction to it, as my noble friend Lord Thomas outlined, is surely to be hugely welcomed. Again, I agree with the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds that it is not a given that these should have developed. They are part of a liberal international order that is rules-based and global, and where there is an understanding of universal rights, freedoms and responsibilities. Here, we would generally agree that it matters to all of us that a civil war in Syria is causing immense suffering. That is why it is seen as a rebuff to that international understanding when Donald Trump describes those admitted by Germany not as refugees but as “illegals”.

The United Kingdom Government’s national security strategy of 2015 speaks of a “rules-based international order” which has,

“enabled economic integration and security cooperation to expand”.

The erosion of this, it argues, makes it,

“harder to build consensus and tackle global threats”.

That is clearly true.

There surely can be no doubt, as the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill of Gatley, rightly argues, that globalisation has brought great benefits. Half the world’s population has been pulled out of extreme poverty—the aim of the millennium development goals. The aim of the sustainable development goals is to eradicate extreme poverty by 2030 and to leave no one behind. That is precisely why our commitment to the 0.7% target for aid internationally is vital.

Most children are in education, fewer mothers die in childbirth, more people have access to sanitation and fewer die in hunger. All that is progress. But what is also clear is that there are huge inequalities between the rich and the poor. Those children who have been through school expect a better life but often cannot get jobs; global businesses are adept at moving from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, not paying taxes that contribute to the development of the countries in which they derive their income; and the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, perceptively speaks of the cultural alienation of endless change. But is this a reason to pull up the drawbridge and become little Englanders or little Americans? In this Chamber, we all, except perhaps for one, clearly believe not. We share the view that this is an argument for greater global co-operation while addressing these deep-seated changes, as argued by the noble Lords, Lord Hannay, Lord Giddens and Lord Anderson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud.

So where will our energies go? In the United Kingdom, we will be embroiled now for years in pulling out of the EU. We were always semi-detached, never recognising the EU for what it was—a project for peace, on a continent that has seen war in Bosnia, Northern Ireland and Cyprus in our very recent memory, not just the major wars of the 20th century, to which my noble friends Lord Thomas and Lord Watson referred. Strengthening economic ties made war less likely. Our press endlessly blamed the EU, and our politicians connived at that. No defence was made, and political leaders so often failed to take the leading role in Europe that our size and economy enabled. We were the triumvirate, with France and Germany—what a wasted opportunity.

It is therefore not surprising that people voted as they did. For me, what was amazing was the outpouring after the referendum from those who did get the EU, especially young people. Those who voted leave said overwhelmingly that they would not wish to take a financial hit from doing so, and of course they were told that they would not. If and when they do, what then for populism in the United Kingdom? The expectation would be that people would move further to the right or left. That is a very worrying prospect. With all our energies consumed by these protracted negotiations, how will we address that?

In the US, as Trump stands on the cusp of inauguration, what there? Trump is not consistent, except in being super-sensitive to slights and seeking immediate answers to long-standing problems. BMW will have a supertax on its cars if it makes them in Mexico, so how will Germany respond? What happens if US actions mean that Mexico’s economy implodes? Will the wall keep the Mexicans out? Forget Gove and Trump making a good and beneficial deal for the UK; it is more likely to be beneficial to the US—to its farmers, its businesses and its financial services. We would be negotiating from a place of weakness and smaller size. Even without Trump, the US has long had a tendency to protectionism. What of China, if the US decides on this road? What happens to its economy? Will the Chinese leadership sit by as protectionist policies are put in place? That is unlikely. How ironic to see the Chinese apparently taking the lead on an open global system.

There are so many challenges that need global co-operation; turning inwards cannot be an answer. Nationalism makes us less safe. We cannot hope to tackle global challenges alone, whether it is climate change, terrorism or the 60 million refugees worldwide—the scapegoats of the far right. The noble Baroness, Lady Finn, reminds us that we are not so far removed from those refugees. We weaken ourselves by pulling out of the EU, the biggest and strongest bloc in the world, in which we had disproportionate influence. There are already signs that we are desperately looking to the US, even at this moment in its history. But we are not equal partners, as we are in the EU. Read the Chilcot report on Iraq if you doubt that.

Our task has to be to get across that it is in the national interest to work together with other nations and, as my noble friend Lord Ashdown points out, with each other across this nation. Otherwise, nationalism and populism will take us into very dangerous and dark territory indeed. As my noble friend Lord Bruce rightly put it, we need to fight for a country, a region and a world where fairness, openness, inclusion and tolerance predominate.

Israel: Ambassador

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am delighted to say that my right honourable friend is alive and well and an excellent Minister at the Foreign Office.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Suri (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, we will hear from the Lib Dem Benches.

[Baroness Northover]

The Government accepted the Israeli ambassador’s explanation but, on Sunday, the UK failed to send a Minister to the Paris meeting on the peace process and yesterday the UK vetoed the EU’s support for the conclusions of that meeting. Can the Minister assure us that on Israel/Palestine the Government are not distancing themselves from our European neighbours and seeking favour with a very unpredictable new US President?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the UK position on the Middle East peace process has not changed. I appreciate that there has been some speculation over the recess—that happens during a recess period. But the noble Baroness rightly raises specific points, and I would like to address the two main points of those specific issues.

First, with regard to the Paris conference, we made it clear to the French, whom we congratulate on trying to take the process of peace forward, that decisions made at this stage without the presence of the only ones who can come to a settlement—the Palestinians and the Israelis—were not going anywhere and could simply harden opinions. It was nothing to do with the incoming President of the United States. However, we have to recognise that the US plays a crucial role in these negotiations, and has done so. With regard to Paris, while welcoming the French efforts, we made it clear that we would not attend the meeting at ministerial level, although we had a senior representative there—the head of our Near East department—and as such it was not appropriate for us to sign up to that communique.

I would like to put on record a clarification about the misunderstanding in the press to which the noble Baroness referred. We did not veto anything yesterday in Brussels. Federica Mogherini, the High Representative of the European Union for foreign affairs, confirmed yesterday that the UK,

“did not stop or prevent any decision of the European Union”.

From her mouth, I hope that the House will accept that we did not veto anything.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting 2018

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I hoped that I had just expressed the view that it is important that the parliamentary democracies at CHOGM in the UK in 2018 have a way of communicating with the event. Clearly, as the noble Lord will know from his experience, the agenda itself is agreed by consensus of all members of the Commonwealth. What I have just said is that, after listening to my noble friend and, indeed, to the noble Lord, in discussions with my colleagues around the membership of the Commonwealth about CHOGM, I shall certainly take forward the idea of how best we can ensure that there is parliamentary engagement.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

A number of developing countries in the Commonwealth are worried that Brexit may damage their ability to trade into the EU, especially with the removal of the United Kingdom and the protective shield that that has given them. Given that, does not this meeting seem an excellent time to assure them that their interests are being addressed?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness raises a vital point. Throughout the summer, in my engagement with high commissioners, Prime Ministers and Foreign Ministers from around the Commonwealth, I made it very clear that I am listening to their concerns. Although there is no formal consultation process, it is absolutely crucial that, as one of the members of the Commonwealth, we take their views into account and shall continue to do so.

Nigeria

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness is right to draw the attention of the House to the terrible plight of those who suffer the devastating consequences of intercommunal conflict. I note that she is careful, and right to be careful, to differentiate between the activities of Boko Haram and those of the Fulani—the pastoralists and the farmers—and the conflict there. The result for those who suffer is appalling, whoever the aggressor may be. Therefore, I can say to the noble Baroness that we call on all parties to find a peaceful solution to the underlying causes of these incidents, as I did when I visited Kaduna. We work closely with the Government of Nigeria on these matters.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the International Development Select Committee in the Commons, in its report on Nigeria, cited climate change as fuelling the conflict in this area. Now that the UK has finally ratified the Paris climate change treaty, what will be built into our actions in Nigeria to mitigate this problem?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness is right to remind us of the report’s conclusions. When I was in Kaduna state the impact of desertification was drawn to my attention, particularly on the Fulani, who, having been tribal herdsmen for centuries, and having moved across country, felt that they had to go deeper into Nigeria. We work very closely with the Government of Nigeria, using DfID and ODA funds to ensure that we can provide some economic support. We particularly want to support some of the peace clubs, which bring together the various conflicting groups that find themselves trying to fight for the same access to land and therefore their livelihoods.

Outcome of the European Union Referendum

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, we have had some amazing speeches during the last couple of days. The most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury was especially profound and moving. Others have brought their huge wisdom to this debate. When the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, says—as a political historian—that nothing on this scale has happened in his lifetime, we should pay attention.

Knowing what we are doing, we seem to be heading towards something that almost all of us deeply regret and which will profoundly change this country and its future. My noble friend Lord Marks mentioned his children’s devastated reaction. They see themselves as European. My children, too, were horrified. One of them is doing a law conversion course. Of all ironies, on Friday 24 June she had an exam on EU law. Never had an exam seemed more irrelevant.

The young are overwhelmingly in favour of staying in. As you progress through the generations, that moves in the other direction. The long blaming of so much on the EU and the reluctance of political parties and business to counter that has had its effect. To me, as a Lib Dem, the outpouring of support for the EU, especially from young people, has been so welcome, so novel, but so sad.

Others have powerfully put across analyses of how we came to be where we are, and of our hugely divided society. But we should note that Scotland, even with the deprivations there, voted to remain. The irony is, of course, that the Brexiteers are not known for tackling poverty and that leaving the EU is likely to reduce, not increase, the life chances of those who feel most excluded.

I wonder, as did the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, how on earth we ended up with a referendum with a simple majority. What was proposed could not be a more profound constitutional, social and economic change. Our now divided country shows how unwise it is to undertake huge constitutional change on a simple yes/no referendum with a simple majority. Those who led for leave had no agreed plan—hence the poster at Saturday’s march, “Even Baldrick had a plan”. There is no manifesto and no agreement on what relationship we now want with the EU: like Canada’s, Norway’s, Switzerland’s, Albania’s or something else?

Do we face inwards or outwards? The most reverend Primate rightly expressed a wish that the UK reaches out,

“with a forward foreign policy to the poorest around the world”.—[Official Report, 5/7/16; col. 1861.]

The UK should be proud of its record on development. We are the first country in the G8 to commit 0.7% of GNI for aid, as my noble friend Lord Bruce pointed out. Our aid must now be at risk. Our economy is projected to weaken: therefore, our 0.7% will be smaller than it otherwise would have been. In the circumstances of a weak economy, the right-wing campaigns that have wrecked our place in Europe will take their wrecking ball to our aid commitment. If we did not manage to defeat the voices of little England over the EU, where our own interests are so directly affected, how will we fare on aid?

Then there is the impact within the EU itself. We, along with other northern countries, were instrumental in persuading our other EU partners to contribute. The EU is the largest and strongest economic bloc in the world. It is also the largest and strongest contributor to development around the world. Our outstanding Department for International Development has been disproportionately effective in helping to shape what the EU does. The noble Lord, Lord Patten of Barnes, as EU Commissioner, completely shook up what the EU was doing. In more recent years, DfID staff quietly and systematically aligned the EU with UK aims, not the other way round. We led, but we will no longer be there.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, said, those whom I have met recently in developing countries were not arguing for Brexit. In the last month alone, in Nigeria I was asked why the UK was being so isolationist and in Angola I was told that it would be “a big mistake” for us to leave the EU. As we speak, the African Union is seeking to join up Africa, looking to the model of the EU. It seeks to remove customs and visa barriers between countries—the reverse of what we seem to be doing. A Foreign Office civil servant said to me that he was not sure he would want to stay in his job if we left the EU because he would be in the business of managing the UK’s decline.

As my noble friend Lady Kramer made very clear, we are already damaging our economy. That damage will continue, even if, as my noble friend Lord Carlile suggested, we take a judgment, down the track, that it is not in Britain’s interests to settle for an inadequate agreement outside the EU. Clearly, we must redouble our efforts to trade with the rest of the world, but part of our strength came from our membership of the EU and, with it, our political and economic stability. I have to hope that we have as close a relationship as we can with our EU partners. As we embark on this long and dangerous journey, if that is what we must do, it is surely vital that we now work together and that Parliament plays a key role in charting us through these dangerous waters.

Companies: Overseas Territories Registration

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Wednesday 20th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, as the Minister clearly—

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords—

Sudan: Human Rights

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 17th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, of course we had the Chinese state visit very recently, during the course of which my right honourable friend the Prime Minister discussed the matter of human rights widely with the Chinese President. So we keep the matter under review. In the first instance we want to ensure that any aid provided is provided within international humanitarian law as well as international law itself.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, what further progress has been made in restricting the small arms trade, given that every community in Sudan is awash with small arms? Obviously, this is an extremely difficult problem, but international efforts were being made. What further progress can the Minister report?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness points to a serious problem, not only in that area but elsewhere. We have made clear to the Government that it is important that they improve their own attitude towards the security of all minorities, part and parcel of which is indeed the restriction of the amount of arms that are available. But I am under no illusions about the difficulty of trying to pursue that.

Overseas Territories Joint Ministerial Council

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 3rd December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I am very glad that the noble Lord raises this point, particularly as COP 21 is under way at the moment. He is right that the overseas territories include some of the most remote and biologically interesting places on earth, and contain more than 90% of our biodiversity. I assure him that that is why these matters were under discussion and why the UK Government made a commitment to protect these unique and diverse areas from being damaged. We have made that clear in the past, and we aim to designate the largest contiguous no-take MPA in the world around Pitcairn in 2016. We are working with the Ascension Island Government to protect 50% of their waters from fishing activities, and we are also working with South Georgia, the South Sandwich Islands, the British Antarctic Territory and the British Indian Ocean Territory. This is a vital matter for those overseas territories.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, following on from my noble friend’s question, can I probe a little further? The Minister mentioned one or two overseas territories which were publishing registers, but could she say whether all overseas territories are participating in the central registers, and what is the timetable for doing this? Obviously the next stage is to make sure that these are public.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, discussions are ongoing about whether those registers will be public. Of course, some overseas territories feel that that is not appropriate to them. These discussions are continuing, but we have made great progress. We do not put a deadline on this, because the overseas territories have their own elected Governments; therefore we work in partnership with them. We do not dictate to them but work with them.

Nepal

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it has been the policy of this Government and preceding Governments to encourage a peaceful resolution of power and to support the development of a new constitution. With regard to the blockade to which the noble Earl refers, our acting ambassador in Nepal, along with EU and other like-minded countries’ heads of mission, has regular dialogue with the Indian ambassador to Nepal. Our British high commissioner to India, James Bevan, called on Indian Foreign Secretary Jaishankar on 7 October and raised with him the question of Nepal. We agreed that we would continue to engage with India and seek to work with it to help resolve the crisis of the blockade.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I start by thanking Oxford University for translating the Nepalese constitution for me. Is the noble Baroness as pleased as I am to see gender rights and—for the first time in the region, as I understand it—LGBT rights enshrined in the constitution? Will the UK Government congratulate the Nepalese Government on this major step forward in human rights?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I entirely agree and endorse what the noble Baroness has said. Of course, our remaining concern must be to ensure that the constitution is put into effect. Because of the recent elections, that is still a matter to be resolved.

LGBTI Citizens Worldwide

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 17th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, like others, I thank my noble friend Lord Scriven for securing this debate and opening it so effectively. We heard some extremely powerful contributions, including the searingly brave personal account from my noble friend Lord Paddick.

I am very glad that we are discussing this subject immediately after our debate on the new sustainable development goals. Key to those goals is to eliminate extreme poverty by 2030 while leaving no one behind. We know that those whose sexuality is not accepted in their home countries are particularly likely to be excluded, and in poverty, so those SDGs are absolutely relevant here.

In that debate, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Sheffield made a very effective contribution. I note that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans was down to speak on the dairy industry debate that followed. So I wondered where the Bishops’ Bench was for this debate. I was very glad to hear the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, who just spoke, because I noted that there was nobody sitting on the Bishops’ Bench, even just to listen. How could that be? I assume that the Church of England must surely move on from appointing women bishops to addressing this issue of human rights. I thought that that lay behind the moves quoted today made by the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury where he spoke of drawing together the communion and conversation across the whole Anglican communion. I wish them well, even if they are frayed at the edges— as the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, put it.

As my noble friend Lord Scriven said, this is about human rights. The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, put it more strongly, calling it the greatest human rights issue of our time—and he is surely right. My noble friend Lord Scriven paid tribute to my colleague Lynne Featherstone and to me for our work in DfID, and I thank him. It was when my shortly to be noble friend Lynne Featherstone became a Minister in DfID that this subject went on to the agenda. It was Lynne, of course, who in the Home Office brought forward equal marriage. She tried to get a strategy on LGBT within DfID. Although one was agreed internally by the summer of last year, she could not get it published; it was regarded as politically too hot a topic to touch. When I took over from her in DfID in November last year, I sought to take this work further forward, and the strategy was published. I hope that by the time I left we had secured sufficient progress that this was an issue which could not slip back in to the shadows. Like the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I welcome cross-party support on this, but I would like to ask the Minister what DfID is now doing on this agenda. Like my noble friend Lord Scriven, I want to know which DfID Minister is now responsible for this.

I found that officials within DfID were extremely enthusiastic about this agenda. They recognised that development could not be effective if certain sections of the community were excluded. You can look at discrimination through the development lens. We know only too well that discrimination can lead to exclusion from education, healthcare, and economic activity. Aid must be impartial and not based on nationality, race, religion, political point of view, or sexuality. It must be based on need alone. When people are marginalised due to their sexuality, they are likely to be poor. So how do we tackle this? Ensuring that there is international protection of human rights is an important start, but we know that what we do must not expose individuals to even greater danger. So as my noble friend Lady Barker and the noble Lord, Lord Smith, pointed out, we need to work closely with those in countries where they face particular discrimination so that we can work out how best to support them. Supporting civil society is vital. Working through the corporate sector, to which Governments often listen closely, is also essential. My noble friend Lord Scriven and the noble Lord, Lord Black, referred to instances when that has been effective.

When I was in DfID, we sought to map what was happening and who was active in the countries in which DfID worked. We helped to get LGBTI rights on the agenda of the World Bank, which is becoming very supportive in ensuring that development is inclusive. We initiated research at the Institute for Development Studies at Sussex University on sexuality, poverty and law, as we sought to underpin and sustain action by the UK Government into the future. This is one of the first research programmes to look at these important issues. Given the World Bank’s economic remits, it was looking at the economic costs of homophobia, undertaking a study in India that highlighted the enormous cost of healthcare due to homophobia. It noted HIV disparity, depression, and suicide, three health issues that are particularly high among the LGBT population. It estimated that this cost India more than $700 million in 2012.

This debate is about human rights, but my noble friend Lady Barker is right that it is also worth emphasising to countries the economic benefits of change—what she calls smart economics—just as this has been a way in which gender equality has also sometimes been broached, with more positive results than might otherwise have been the case, in particular to make sure that it is included as part of development initiatives. As we have just debated the new sustainable development goals, we must insist that no one should be left behind. That commitment must now be harnessed to support and protect those who would otherwise be excluded because of their sexuality.

There have been some encouraging developments, as the noble Lord, Lord Smith, and others have noted. They include the incorporation of LGBTI issues in the draft World Bank safeguards and the reference to discrimination in the Commonwealth charter, which is a small step forward. As so many noble Lords have said, the Commonwealth has particularly pernicious laws. The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, is right that we should be emphasising that we have changed our laws and that those elsewhere are now totally outdated. Will the Minister tell me what further progress has been made in regard to Commonwealth countries? Will she update the House on progress on selecting a new Secretary-General and indicate whether she is optimistic that such an appointment will bring progress on this matter?

In DfID I found myself discussing with leading figures in the US Government how we could encourage Americans to dissuade some of their countryfolk, the religious fundamentalists to whom the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, referred, from packing planes flying to African countries to harden policies against LGBTI rights. The noble and right reverend Lord is absolutely right in this regard.

Like others here, I have met some amazingly brave campaigners who knew their lives were at risk, not only because of their sexual orientation but because of their campaigns. I heard some terrible stories. I was delighted that the All-Party Parliamentary Group on global LGBT rights was set up and to be at its first meeting to nominate my noble friend Lady Barker to be an officer of the group.

For me, some of the social and governmental challenges we face were summed up and crystallised when I was attending a meeting at an AU summit earlier this year. This meeting was on child marriage. It was not on LGBTI rights. The President of a particular African country—I can tell noble Lords who he was afterwards —in his concluding remarks, stated, “I oppose child marriage”. There was gentle applause. “But”, he said, in a total non sequitur, “I do not support same-sex marriage”. There was wild applause. That illustrated for me quite how high a mountain we have to climb, and this debate is part of a stage on the way. I thank my noble friend for bringing it forward.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is one of those things where someone thought it was an excellent idea at the time without thinking through the consequences of what it does to the other flag being flown. When we fly the flag we look at the country and think, “What is that country doing?”. I am proud of what we are doing. If I want to wear a rainbow outfit on the right day, nothing will stop me doing that either, I can assure the noble Lord.

I shall return to the narrative. Our embassy in Hanoi in 2013 was the first local mission to use its website as a platform for an LGB&T—as it was then—activist blogger. I would also like to draw attention to our consular work, highlighting that some of our posts now offer same-sex marriages, with one such union prompting the Seychelles to reassert its commitment to decriminalise sex between same-sex couples, so things can change. Our embassy in Santo Domingo hosted the first same-sex marriage in the Caribbean on 30 December 2014.

I was asked about the special envoy and I was delighted to meet with Mr Berry last week. We agreed that there is already excellent co-ordination between the UK and the US and discussed what more we could do together. That will be a continuing discussion. I will be listening and learning. He has only just been appointed and we need to see how that develops. We agreed on the need to empower ambassadors to show leadership on LGBTI issues where and when they believe it to be most appropriate.

In the light of this, I have every confidence that we will continue our work overseas and show our strong commitment and vigour in protecting LGBTI rights around the world. That includes the United Nations in New York and the Human Rights Council, where in September last year we saw the passing of a second resolution on sexual orientation, supported this time by more states than ever before. This resolution, tabled by Brazil, Chile, Colombia and Uruguay provides the international legal framework needed by LGBT activists to help challenge the views of states that undermine their legitimacy.

I assure noble Lords that we will continue to prevent silence on sexual orientation at the UN and elsewhere, not least because silence is an affront to those people who suffer discrimination and violence. It would weaken the UN’s credibility and ability to address a range of other contentious issues. As such I was delighted to see that, for the first time, the UN Security Council last month held an informal meeting on LGBTI rights in the context of ISIL. Again, this shows the UK at the forefront in strongly condemning the atrocities committed by ISIL.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords—

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the time is up.

[Baroness Northover]

Before the noble Baroness actually concludes—

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we have both been Whips. I have exceeded my time in a time-limited debate—

[Baroness Northover]

I look forward to receiving—

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am not required to take any interventions when I have exceeded my time.