Crime and Courts Bill [HL]

Baroness Meacher Excerpts

Tuesday 4th December 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Meacher]

111: After Clause 21, insert the following new Clause—
“Regulation of bailiffs
(1) The Secretary of State shall establish arrangements for the regulation of enforcement services and enforcement agents, as defined in Part 3 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.
(2) In establishing a regulatory system for enforcement services and agents, the Secretary of State shall, by order, make arrangements for the licensing and accreditation of companies whose activities involve judicial or quasi-judicial enforcement of debts, collection of fines and seizure and sale of goods.
(3) The Secretary of State may, by order, designate a person or body (“the Regulator”) to authorise persons to provide enforcement services, and regulate the conduct of such authorised persons and businesses.
(4) In carrying out functions as are conferred on the Regulator by or under this section, the Regulator shall—
(a) carry out inspections as it considers necessary of authorised persons holding licences or accredited under this section;(b) provide for, or procure the provision of, training and accreditation;(c) keep under review generally the activities of bailiffs and enforcement agents;(d) establish an independent complaints system for debtors to use in cases where bailiffs and enforcement agents have abused their powers.”

[Baroness Meacher]

My Lords, Amendment 111 would introduce a new clause, Clause 22, to establish an independent regulator for enforcement services and enforcement agents—known to most of us as bailiffs.

The importance of this amendment lies in the enormity of the problem. For years, banks have used hard-sell techniques on the doorstep to foist loans onto vulnerable people, many of whom have no prospect at all of repaying that debt. Many others find themselves with debts that they can just about cover on condition that life carries on fairly calmly. But of course if crisis strikes—serious illness, disability or mental breakdown—the debts become unmanageable. And a third issue is now looming. Next year we will see the biggest cuts in welfare spending ever experienced in this country. Evidence from a small survey in Haringey suggests that the cumulative impact of the local housing allowance cap, the overall benefit cap and cuts in council tax benefit—just those three things alone—will cut the income of couples with two children by just over £108 per week, leaving such families with only £150 per week to cover food, fuel, clothes, transport and other necessities. They will not cope; it is quite simple. I am very grateful to the Zacchaeus 2000 Trust for those figures.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord McNally]

I hesitate to respond to what is clearly a very emotive situation as laid out by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel. There is danger in all of these cases—and even the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, fell into it—of using illustrations in an emotive fashion. We are trying to get a balance. I suggest that what you are saying and the assurance that has just been given by the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, come within some assessment of vulnerability which will require further guidance. This is not me laying down the law from the Dispatch Box. I am trying to make a common-sense assessment. I regret that I cannot start responding to various speculations in advance of the publication of the work that we have done.

[Baroness Meacher]

I thank the Minister for his response, but I have to say that it is deeply distressing that we are having this debate when we do not really know what we are talking about. We do not have even the response to the consultation. We do not know what the Government’s plans really are. We should be having significant amendments debated and completed at Report stage, yet we cannot do that.

Will the Minister make clear whether the consultation response, or indications about the key points in it, could be made available to us before Third Reading? That is one important point. Secondly, I hope to have a meeting with Helen Grant and obtain some information from her. I would like to reserve the right to bring something back at Third Reading, hopefully on the basis of some rather better information than we had today. As Lord Beecham said, I am aware of this matter going on for 20 years. I was involved in the bailiff issue 20 and indeed 30 years ago, when I worked at the CAB. It is not new. It is overdue and we are in grave danger of having too little too late. Will the Minister say whether he can produce some information before Third Reading.

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, I can only say that I can in due course—in so many different ways, in due course.

[Baroness Meacher]

I have no option but to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 111 withdrawn.