Health Protection (Coronavirus, Collection of Contact Details etc and Related Requirements) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 7th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for bringing these regulations forward today and, in particular, for his admission that it would help to publish such regulations before they are laid. That would be very welcome. They should also be brought to Parliament before they are implemented in future. Those two developments would help the industry and both Houses to scrutinise them.

My noble friend is under no illusion about how great the impact of Covid has been on the hospitality sector, which reopened late in the day, only in July. I find the application of these regulations particularly helpful, as they appear to help hospitality facilities, which are their target, to remain open. The announcement over lunchtime today that Greene King may close a number of establishments, some permanently, with a mass loss of jobs, is deeply worrying and possibly the tip of an iceberg.

I will ask one question and make one comment and proposal. Could my noble friend clarify the level of fine for a first offence? It seems reasonable for £500 to be the top level for a first offence, because there could be a difficulty in understanding and adhering to the rules. An increased fine for a second or third offence would seem reasonable. However, one part of the regulations before us today says that £500 will be the first fine; in another place, I see £1,000. I make a plea for £500, which seems more reasonable.

It is not the work of his department, but my noble friend is aware of this and I have raised it in connection with other regulations. Since Covid-19 became so extensive, water companies have been regularly testing wastewater at both household and community levels. It is then sent off for analysis by the Environment Agency. The thrust of debate on these regulations, the previous Urgent Question and all comments generally is that we need lockdowns that are as localised and short as possible. The benefit of testing wastewater is that, while it cannot be limited to individual households, it can be limited to a narrow community. Could my noble friend see whether his department can liaise with the Environment Agency and Defra to see whether the information gathered could be used to target more specific, community-based, smaller lockdowns, which would last for shorter periods? That would help both the local community and the hospitality industry, which has taken the brunt of the regulations, such as those before us today.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Alderdice) (LD)]

We ran into some technical problems earlier, so I propose to try again to hear the last two questions of the noble Lord, Lord Naseby.

Covid-19: NHS Application

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 1st October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord has made a very detailed and technical inquiry. We are studying the ENX system very closely. However, as I mentioned earlier, the secret source of the British app is the algorithm that takes the data from Bluetooth and the phone and analyses it to give the risk assessment. Our view is that that algorithm is absolutely critical. Without it, the ENX system fires off alerts to anyone who has been proximate to another Bluetooth phone that has registered a positive test, even if they have only driven past that phone on the motorway. Those are exactly the kinds of circumstances that the British public made it crystal clear to us they simply would not tolerate. Therefore, we have put an enormous investment into that algorithm. We have had an enormous amount of interest from other countries, and we are happy to share that learning with companies as we develop our intelligence on it.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

I wish my noble friend many happy returns on his birthday. Clearly, the app is a very useful tool. Does he imagine that the Government will use it in conjunction with the testing of international passengers arriving at airports? When might testing be rolled out at airports?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, version 1 does not have an international component to it, but that is something that we would seek to develop. I emphasise that the app in its current form is very much focused on providing a huge amount of personal privacy and is therefore not an appropriate vehicle for putting in place any form of surveillance or quarantine management. That would be in breach of our arrangements with our technical partners, Apple and Google. Therefore, although I cannot give my noble friend Lady McIntosh a complete answer, I would like to hint that perhaps this will not be the vehicle for accelerating airport testing.

Coronavirus Act 2020: Temporary Provisions

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 28th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend Lady Morrissey, from whom we are going to hear shortly. I also congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Clark of Kilwinning, and my noble and learned friend Lord Clarke of Nottingham on their maiden speeches, and welcome them both to the House. I am full of admiration for the Minister and welcome him once again to his place, and I thank him for giving us the opportunity to review the Act after six months.

There is clearly a democratic deficit, otherwise my noble friend Lord Robathan in this House and my right honourable friend Graham Brady in the other place would not have seen fit to introduce the Motions today. For all the reasons that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and my noble friend Lord Forsyth have given, there is clearly a need for parliamentary oversight. I really do not understand what the problem is for the Government; they have nothing to fear from parliamentary scrutiny.

The fact that we have not had parliamentary scrutiny even of the many regulations that have flowed from the original Act has meant that some avoidable errors could have been ironed out and removed before the regulations came into effect. My noble friend is aware of my concern, which I will repeat now, that rural areas have been lumped in with urban areas. I could not understand why Tees Valley was exempt from the lockdown in the north-east when the incidence of Covid from early September was so high. I understand that that has now been reversed. We also have to learn the lessons from the Licensing Act 2003 regarding why the licensing laws were liberalised and why it has not been that good an idea to have all pubs and bars closing at 10 pm, given the consequences that we have seen.

I echo the sentiments of those who have talked about the wider balance that has to be reached between the risks that all of us face of catching Covid—I declare an interest, being of an age where I am considered to be elderly and more at risk, while my husband should be shielded as well—and elderly people wanting to lead as normal a life as possible. It is also important that we balance the economic risks with the medical ones. What is of concern to everyone, whatever their age, whether they are young schoolchildren, students at university or others, is mounting anxiety levels potentially leading to an explosion in depression and mental illness, as others have referred to.

Some heroes have emerged: I congratulate the Department for Work and Pensions. The way that it has quietly gone about rolling out to huge numbers at very short notice and admitted to benefits an unprecedented number of claimants is worthy of note and congratulation. I also single out doctors, nurses, care workers, all the emergency workers and the police as well as local authorities, both councillors and officials, who are working in very cash-strapped circumstances.

This is a welcome opportunity to review how the legislation has functioned over the last six months. The Government should have no fear of parliamentary scrutiny.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions on Gatherings) (North of England) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Friday 25th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend the Minister on his boundless stamina. I repeat my general concern about the lack of flu vaccines. It is now impossible to make an appointment, even in the first few days of appointments being open. I know that the Minister will address this issue.

It would appear from what the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, said that these regulations have been democratically approved by the local authorities in question. Can the Minister tell us whether that is the case for all local restrictions—including, in particular, the one relating to the north-east? I declare an interest as I have a residence in County Durham.

In relation to the restrictions in the regulations before us today, can my noble friend explain why rural areas are being lumped together with urban areas, when the incidence and spread of the virus is lower in rural areas? I would be particularly interested to know—although it is not before us today—why an urban area such as Tees Valley has been excluded. Why was that agreed but not for rural areas, as I raised previously? Overall, I support the thrust of these regulations and I welcome the opportunity to debate them today.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Pitkeathley) (Lab)]

The last question is from the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am delighted to hear that there are 30 million doses of flu vaccine. I remind the House of my interest with the Dispensing Doctors’ Association. How and when will the flu vaccine reach doctors’ and GPs’ surgeries? My noble friend will be aware that PPE will presumably have to be worn for the dispensing of each dose of flu vaccine, which means that the vaccination will be administered at a loss to dispensing doctors and others. That does not seem sustainable. Is that an issue that my noble friend will be able to address?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, flu vaccines are being distributed right now. I know that because I had mine yesterday. The person who gave me the vaccine was not in PPE and in fact spoke very movingly about the way in which walk-in methods are being used to make administering the vaccine as easy and quick as possible, removing all barriers to the public. When I asked him about the commercial practicalities, he gave me an encouraging update on the financial settlement for the distribution of vaccines by pharmacists. I am led to believe that there will be a huge amount of interest by pharmacists in distributing as many flu vaccines as they can.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I have a brief question to put to my noble friend the Minister regarding the consultation on local lockdowns: how, in future, can we strive to avoid the tension that appears to have arisen in local cases, particularly in the north-west? I urge the Government, in the next campaign that I gather will be announced about face-based test and trace, to look to ensure, if possible, that young people are targeted in any campaign that we have.

In terms of the potential flu epidemic that might coincide with a national spike in Covid, can my noble friend assure the House today that his department has had contact with doctors and pharmacists to ensure that not just the over-65s will have sufficient access to vaccines and that, with the new demand, over-50s will also be able to be vaccinated and that there will be sufficient availability for both categories? My understanding is that flu vaccines are ordered months, if not a year, in advance and there may not be sufficient to cover both categories.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

The noble Baroness has quite a fetching scarf. The next speaker is the noble Lord, Lord Bhatia.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Leicester) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 29th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, is my noble friend convinced that the guidance he has issued through the local councils is sufficiently clear? Is he convinced that the councils, particularly the public health officer and his department, have sufficient resources to instigate local lockdown measures, as in the case before us? How does he intend some of the minutiae involved in the regulations to work, such as overnight stays by people who live outside the protected area but wish to stay in the protected area? We saw previously how difficult they are to enforce. In areas such as Leicester, Oldham and other places where we are seeing a spike, is my noble friend aware that it could be young people, through their innocent behaviour, who are contributing to the spikes? If that is the case going forward, is it the Government’s intention to issue clear advice to young people in this regard?

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Friday 24th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the original regulations, which we are amending today, had a dramatic effect on the reduction of excess deaths within a three-week period, so have worked extremely well. That is a matter of note and congratulations.

I ask my noble friend to consider a campaign on two issues—the two Gs, as I call them. It was abundantly clear from the passage of emergency legislation, the Business and Planning Bill, that guidance for those to which it must apply, such as the hospitality and tourism sector, must be clear from the earliest possible time. Secondly, have the Government formed a view on the use of gloves? We are all following the guidance on washing our hands, but surely the correct use of gloves outdoors and indoors could prevent the virus being passed on.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 25th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we are now used to the idea of wearing a mask and I welcome the guidance on that. Will my noble friend and the Government consider adding to that the advisory use of wearing gloves? We are told that the danger is that the virus is lingering on surfaces. Should it not be mandatory, certainly for those preparing and serving food and refreshments, to wear gloves, and advised for everybody else, simply to keep us safer in that regard?

I share the concerns of those who have expressed the confusion surrounding what will happen in the event of either a second wave or, more likely in the immediate future, a localised flare-up. Can my noble friend point us this afternoon towards where and what the advice is on what local councils, other authorities and the emergency services should do in the event of a local flare-up? Does he share my concern about the recent outbreak of the virus in meat-processing factories? Is something causing that and how can the Government deal with it effectively? There has been an incident in Denmark where the virus has entered the animal population through mink farms. That is obviously very salutary, so are the Government keeping an eye on it?

I understand from the House of Lords committee which reviewed these two regulations—or certainly regulation 3, which is before us—that today is the date of the next review. I would be interested to learn what exactly that review is looking into, as of today.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 15th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the opportunity to debate these regulations but I would like to put down a marker for future regulations. In particular, I want to focus my remarks on the distancing rule, but will my noble friend comment on the inevitable discrepancies that we have seen in the current regulations? One has already been pointed out by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich. However, another is that it is still not possible for churches to host singing at normal services because of the risk of infection through exhaling, yet runners, who exhale deeply, can pass by very close to other road users and indeed to those in parks in major cities, but that is deemed not to be a risk of infection.

Looking ahead to what we believe will be a reduction in the two-metre self-distancing rule, will my noble friend take this opportunity to say how this can be enforced, particularly in public places but more especially to assist those who hope to see the reopening of tourism, restaurant and catering facilities? It would be helpful to know how this can be enforced, particularly, as my noble friend has said, against the backdrop of the R rate still seeming to be relatively high. My noble friend said that it is still between 0.7 and 0.9 and that it remains perilously close to 1. Regarding the number of declared deaths, my understanding is that 10% of confirmed Covid deaths globally have occurred within the UK.

With those few remarks, I hope that the regulations will continue to be kept under review, and I hope that my noble friend will take the opportunity to address the remarks on self-distancing going forward.