Assisted Dying Bill [HL]

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 22nd October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, we live in dangerous times. Dr Shipman, a GP from Yorkshire, killed many of his patients with overdoses while visiting them in their homes. Almost 100 deaths from overprescribed morphine took place at Gosport War Memorial Hospital in 1990. These are two examples of many evil acts of the addiction to kill people who are not ready to die. There are dangerous, cruel people in our communities who do not value life. I am sure my noble friend Lady Meacher feels that her Bill is helpful but with it she has put fear into thousands of vulnerable people who are elderly or disabled.

Lifting the lid off lethal, poisonous drugs is frightening and dangerous. I have had hundreds of emails and letters from very worried people. They are right in thinking that vulnerable people will be pressurised into thinking that they are a burden, especially now, when there is an extreme shortage of people to care for elderly and disabled people. Please will the Minister help to see that there is good palliative care for all who need it and take up the challenge of getting good, honest, reliable carers so that elderly and disabled people can live stress-free lives? Doctors and nurses should have adequate training in pain relief. I echo the report by the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, First Do No Harm.

Vulnerable people need protection, not the threat of being killed if life becomes too difficult. How can they trust doctors if the Bill is accepted? During Covid-19 so much has been done to protect elderly and disabled people with vaccines and boosters. If the Bill is passed it will put them at risk of being done away with, especially when resources are so short. Catholic teaching opposes assisted suicide because life is a gift to be cared for and preserved until its natural death. I believe some other faiths take the same pathway. I hope they also will also oppose the Bill and I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, on his very positive speech.

Prisons: Violence

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Monday 9th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulks]

The question of sentences is difficult. As the noble Lord will know, the choice of sentence is a matter for the judge in the individual case and generally will reflect the severity of the offences that have been committed. From time to time Parliament will intervene—notoriously, for example, with IPP prisoners—and set certain parameters within which judges have to sentence certain offenders. The fact is that there is currently a higher cohort of violent offenders in prison than there has been for some considerable time. Together with the substantial difficulty caused by psychoactive substances, that contributes to the problem of violence in prisons. It is important not to generalise too much about sentences. A sentence should be long enough to reflect the seriousness of the offence but short enough to give the offender a chance to rehabilitate and give them some hope. In due course, through the work that we are doing on rehabilitation, we hope to ensure that when people leave prison they do not return, because of course the biggest increase in prison sentences is for those coming back again through the prison door.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, are prison staff trained enough in dealing with alcohol and drug abuse and mental health?

[Lord Faulks]

The noble Baroness raises the important point of training for prison officers. I can tell her and the House that the training of prison officers has increased in terms of the length of time, from six weeks to 10. I have visited the training centre at Newbold Revel, and included in the training is a greater emphasis on the very things that the noble Baroness mentions. Mental health problems are very apparent in the prison population; NICE estimates that 90% of prisoners have some sort of mental illness, so it is extremely important that prisoners are assessed on arrival in prison and that any change in their condition is properly monitored through co-operation between prison governors, who have greater power, and NHS England at a local level. Alcohol and drug problems are profound and must be treated as medical issues. Drug issues tend to last longer in prison than alcohol problems, but of course both provide challenges for the Prison Service.

Assisted Dying Bill [HL]

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Friday 16th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulks]

My Lords, this has indeed been a passionate and well informed debate. Your Lordships have shown colossal restraint in the debates we have had so far and have shown great respect for the arguments of the opposing side. I hope that will continue to be the way we approach all the amendments in future. There were a few moments of strain during this debate, perhaps understandably.

At this stage, I should perhaps repeat the position of the Government, which is that we remain neutral. These Benches will have a free vote, should the Committee divide on this or any other amendment, and I shall, of course, endeavour to assist the Committee on any matters of law, without compromising that position.

I was asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, whether the Government have considered a rise in suicide rates as a result of this Bill. I should tell the Committee that we have collected no evidence about the effects this Bill could have on suicide rates, were it to be enacted, but nothing about the Bill in any way compromises the cross-department suicide prevention strategy.

We generally use “assisted dying” as a portmanteau term to cover both assisted suicide and voluntary euthanasia. Ultimately, as many noble Lords have said, it is a matter of tone and message. Your Lordships will decide whether it is appropriate that any of these amendments should be reflected. It is entirely a matter for the Committee.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

Is taking a lethal drug suicide?

[Lord Faulks]

In this context, it is for the Committee to consider the appropriate term. I decline to go any further.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

I will take that up. With regard to my Bill, if the situation were reached—the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell, referred to this—that somebody had very low air and decided to take advantage of my Bill, they would have to get two doctors to approve it and the High Court of Justice would have to say yes. That is a very different situation from the one that the noble Lord describes. My Bill gives much greater protection as regards somebody who is asking for death than the situation that the noble Lord describes. It is for that reason that I cannot understand why he says that my Bill might make it worse.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

My Lords—

[Lord Carlile of Berriew]

My Lords—

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

Can the noble and learned Lord say if he thinks that pressure might be put on some vulnerable people from family members who want to save money?

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

The Oregon experience is that that does not happen, but the safeguards—two doctors, and the High Court judge approving it—are in my view sufficient to prevent the sort of abuse to which the noble Baroness refers.

Assisted Dying Bill [HL]

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Friday 18th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, on a visit to Mexico some time ago I succumbed to Montezuma’s revenge, a violent type of diarrhoea and sickness. When the doctor came, he was the most important person in my life during that visit. I felt so wretched and helpless, because when a paraplegic becomes ill with something such as Montezuma, it is much worse than if one is able bodied. The doctor explained what Montezuma was. He was kind and understanding and he gave me the appropriate medication. I had full trust and confidence in him.

If the Bill becomes law, many countries that admire our health system might follow suit. I would then not have confidence that a doctor would want to get me better. He might think that the best solution was to give me, a paraplegic feeling terrible, a lethal injection to put me out of my misery. A few disabled people want assisted suicide, but the majority do not. They want to live. The Bill makes them feel vulnerable. There should be adequate care so that they can live decent lives and die a peaceful death. How much research has there been of the results of dying by lethal injection?

In 1970, many of your Lordships and Members of another place worked very hard on the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Bill, which became an Act of Parliament, to give disabled people a better life. We must not go backwards and give up treating them, considering them worthless human beings. The relationship that elderly disabled people and children have with their doctors should be one of trust and help; doctors should not becoming killing machines. We who live in the north shudder when we think of what Dr Harold Shipman did to many of his patients. He killed them in their own homes; they were not protected from that monster. There have been other patients killed with insulin by nurses in hospital.

The Bill could, with good intentions, lead to opening doors wider, with dangerous consequences. Dr Theo Boer, the veteran European watchdog in assisted-suicide cases, sternly warns the UK not to legalise euthanasia. He said that legalising assisted suicide is a slippery slope towards the widespread killing of the sick. He says that in his native Netherlands, where euthanasia has been legal since 2002, the number of such deaths doubled in just six years. This year’s total may reach a record 6,000. A surgeon has written to me—I received the letter today—saying that, if the Bill becomes law, it could become a means of clearing elderly sick patients from hospital beds and killing off difficult ones to save money. Surely we must protect the vulnerable.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Benjamin]

My Lords, I support Amendments 3 and 5. I also pay tribute to Lord Newton. In the short time I knew him, he always showed integrity, dignity, compassion and a smiling face right till the end. He was a true gentleman. I also thank my noble friend Lord McNally for meeting with me, and for showing compassion and making it clear that children and vulnerable young people will continue to be covered by legal aid—and I believe him.

It therefore makes no sense for the 3 per cent of children and young people covered by these amendments to have to apply for legal aid from a fund that is called “legal aid for exceptional cases”—by definition, there will not be any exceptional cases as all children and young people are covered. Neither does it make sense to be applying for funds through a social worker or a local authority when the person or organisation being challenged may well be the young person’s own social worker or local authority. Even an adult would have difficulty with that process.

Therefore, the House has two options before it today, which are about the system and not the scope of legal aid. Option one is what Amendments 3 and 5 are all about. It would keep the current system where a child or vulnerable young person or their legal guardian can go to an independent lawyer, where they will be means-tested on the spot and their case reviewed. If they qualify, they will be given legal aid to cover them for legal advice and representation where appropriate.

Option two is the new system proposed by the LASPO Bill, in which a child will need to ask their social worker, who is not legally qualified, to make the time to apply for funding from the Ministry of Justice. However, no details have been given as to how long this will take, what legal training will be given to the social worker, how much the new system will cost, what happens if a social worker has not yet been allocated to the child or young person or how they will even find out how to do this.

I believe that the new system being proposed will be bureaucratic, expensive and time-consuming, and could lead to many miscarriages of justice. Even my noble friend the Minister says in his letter that this system will be challenged and end up in expensive cases of judicial review—meaning more money for the highest- paid lawyers, paid for by the taxpayer. This is not common sense.

I ask the Government to think again, to bridge that narrow gap, and include not just the 97 per cent already accounted for in the Bill, as my noble friend Lord Thomas highlighted, but all children, including that last 3 per cent of vulnerable children, who may be living independently from their parents, living in care or escaping difficult family circumstances. As I always say, childhood lasts a lifetime and these early experiences will have a fundamental effect on their lives. For the sake of these children, I ask the House to support Amendments 3 and 5, which would establish an independent process understood by all.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

My Lords, in supporting these amendments I give an example concerning Amendment 4. Recently, I had a letter about a tragic case. A baby had a boil on his behind. When his mother took him to have his polio vaccine, she queried the fact that he had a boil with the nurse. The nurse queried it with the doctor who said, “Go ahead and give him the vaccine”. The baby developed polio through the urine in his nappy. Now, years later, the boy is paralysed but the family have had no help and are still trying. Many cases need to be sorted out early to save years of anguish.

[Lord Bach]

From the opposition Front Bench I can be extremely brief, as I should be because this is Third Reading. These are very important amendments which the House will have to decide on shortly. JustRights has done some number-crunching on the issue of children. It points out that, while 95 per cent of funding may be protected, only 74 per cent of children are protected likewise. Therefore, the 6,000 mentioned by the noble Baroness who moved Amendment 3 will be left to navigate the legal system alone. These children will have no adult to help them—no litigation friend, in parlance.

It is absurd to think that in social welfare law cases, a conditional fee agreement is any substitute whatever for basic legal aid for getting legal advice for the kind of problems that affect these children. In effect, we are being asked to abandon some of these children— 16 year-olds perhaps—to a legal system that is far from understandable. They will be mainly children in care who have fractured relationships with their parents. The House knows so well that these are exactly the kind of children who, if they do not get early legal help, may end up in young offender institutions or secure children’s homes at enormous cost to the state, which would be much more than the small amount that the Government claim will be saved by not giving them legal aid. How much wiser would it be to spend that money early? Surely, for children, legal aid is greatly preferable to a CFA right across the board. We support the amendments.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Mallalieu]

My Lords, I intervene very briefly to go back to the first of the speeches on this group, which have contained a number of powerful offerings, the speech of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd. He was kind enough to write to me and others setting out the figures that he gave in his speech. I found what he had to say deeply disturbing and something that I hope that the Minister will be able to help us with. If the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, is right, it appears that the Government did not do their figures correctly when the measures were introduced. These cuts, which are clearly very painful, are being advertised to the public and to this House as ones which will save money, but it is abundantly clear that when the figures are done properly—there has been no suggestion yet from the Government that the noble and learned Lord’s figures are incorrect—the proposals in Clause 45 will cost the country money. That is the basis on which we are going through this very painful exercise. I want to hear from the Minister how the Government can possibly justify taking that step.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

My Lords, in supporting the amendments, I just want to say that clinical negligence is such an important matter. I am told that one in 10 people can have a problem with clinical negligence. That should not happen. Much more care should be taken in patient safety. If there are cases of negligence, the health authorities have their own lawyers. If there is no legal aid for the patient, it means that there is not a level playing field. After all, it is all taxpayers’ money.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff]

My Lords, I sense that the House is getting to the point where this debate needs to draw to a close, so I will not go over the points that I was going to make at length, except to point out that there is a moral case and a financial case for both the first two amendments in the group. The moral case is that people are particularly vulnerable when they are in the hands of clinicians, their vulnerability being the reason that they need a clinical intervention. Therefore, closing down access to justice or compensation when things go awry seems particularly wrong.

I have a further point to make on allowing clinical negligence to come back into scope. The financial arguments, as already laid out by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, and in the report of King’s College London, indicate that on financial grounds alone both these amendments make sense. To repeat the figures given by my noble friend Lord Wigley, the cost to the public purse is estimated to be £28.5 million, as opposed to the £10.5 million that the Ministry of Justice hopes to save by this measure. We have heard a lot about the need to save money.

There could be unintended consequences from this calculation of increased, not decreased, expenditure. The intention behind the Government’s amendments is to be welcomed but I fear that there will be complications in, for example, trying to work out the dates of a pregnancy if a scan is not done in the first trimester. Women’s periods are notoriously unreliable as a method of establishing dates in a pregnancy, and arguments about whether it is one day or another will make life extremely difficult.

I end by pointing out that in his report Lord Justice Jackson said that of all the proposed cutbacks in legal aid, the removal of legal aid in relation to clinical negligence was the most unfortunate. He went on to state that if—in his view, wrongly—legal aid for clinical negligence was cut, then removing legal aid for expert reports would not make sound sense.

Drugs and Crime

Baroness Masham of Ilton Excerpts

Tuesday 15th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Masham of Ilton]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for this debate on treating drug dependency through healthcare, not punishment. It will be interesting to hear the Government’s response. We are discussing a huge worldwide problem. For some years, I chaired an organisation called Phoenix House, which has several drug rehabilitation houses in the UK; it also operates in Germany and the United States. It can be an alternative to prison, but it is a drop in a very large ocean. Drug abuse reminds me of King Canute, who could not stop the sea coming in. This debate makes me think: how can the worldwide tide of drugs be stemmed? How can the effect of drug abuse be lessened?

I have served on the parliamentary All-Party Group on Drugs Misuse for many years. Some years ago, a god-daughter of mine died of an overdose of drugs and alcohol. She was a graduate of Oxford University. Drug abuse covers all strands of society and causes much heartache and despair. A co-godmother asked me at the funeral, “Couldn’t you have done something to stop this happening?”. I am sure that many of us try to do our best, but being a Member of your Lordships’ House cannot solve all these tragic situations.

For many years, I served as a member of a board of visitors, now called monitors, at a young offender institution. We used to get the odd case of drug abuse, but always alcohol problems. Now, the majority of the young inmates have taken drugs as well as alcohol. The situation is rocketing. Some people will say that you have to get a prison sentence to get treatment, as there are not enough centres for treatment in the community—and of those that there are, many are very expensive. On Sunday, I met a doctor who runs an A&E department in Middlesbrough and asked him how the situation relating to drug abuse is there. He said, “Rough”, but also that as long as it is criminalised it will go on going up. Recently, there have been murders of prostitutes, all of whom were on drugs. Prostitution was the only way that they could afford their addiction.

As a member of the parliamentary groups on prison health, hepatitis C, HIV/AIDS and tuberculosis, I am pleased that the discussion paper mentions the problem that while,

“people continue to inject drugs and engage in other high-risk activities for the spread of HIV and hepatitis in prison, the prison environment is highly conducive to HIV spread”,

and to TB. It continues:

“The lack of continuity of HIV treatment on entering and leaving prison increases the risk of developing drug resistant strains”,

of the HIV virus and drug-resistant tuberculosis.

Which type of tuberculosis did the prisoner who died in Cardiff prison this April have? Also, what happened to the prisoner with extensively drug-resistant TB who was treated in St George’s Hospital, Tooting, and referred there from Pentonville prison? He originated from Georgia. If these people do not continue taking their drugs, they are exceedingly dangerous to the community where they land up. The mobile X-ray unit that finds and treats hard-to-reach people who may have TB in London, many of whom take drugs, may lose its NHS funding this year. That would be an utter disaster. Many people are already doing vital work treating and helping people with complicated dual-health problems. They need support and funding, as this discussion paper suggests. Health promotion needs expanding. Can the health service and the third sector do it all? That is debatable.