Children and Families Bill

Baroness Knight of Collingtree Excerpts

Tuesday 28th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Northbourne (CB)]

My Lords, I can identify with many of the anxieties that have been expressed today. I want to make just one point about the heading in the amendment: “Sex and relationship education”. Not all relationships are about sex and, in the first place, the extent to which sex and relationship education should address non-sexual relationships is not entirely clear. However, it is certainly an important issue. Whether you turn on to see “Call the Midwife” or David Attenborough and his penguins, or whatever you look at, the ongoing and nurturing relationships between, I hope, both parents and the child are crucially important and a great happiness. As I listen to your Lordships, it sounds as if we are all trying to tell them what not to do. There is a case for trying to take a more positive approach, if that is possible.

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree (Con)]

My Lords, there is just a small question that worries me very much. I was unable to listen to as much of this debate as I wanted, but what concerns me is that there seems to be no understanding that there is a time in a child’s life when it is not a very good idea to talk about sex. I was appalled on finding out, when I was dealing with other matters in the other place, that children as young as four were being told in sex education how to perform the sex act—in fact, how to perform all kinds of sex acts. That shocked me very much, because I believe that it is very important indeed to guard a child’s innocence. While I have no objection to older children being taught about this, the only reference to that that I could find in the amendment is the requirement that,

“SRE is taught in a way that is appropriate to the ages of the pupils concerned”.

We do not know, in the minds of those who put forward this amendment, what that is. What is appropriate to one person is often not appropriate to others.

It worries me very much that we do not have any protection for very young children. Is that an intentional omission, or do people think it is a good idea if very young children, long before they are at a stage where they understand what it is like to be grown up or are even a little bit grown up, are taught such matters? I want to be clear in my mind as to what is in the minds of those who seek to make these changes before I am at all happy about this.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

My Lords, we have heard a number of very powerful contributions this evening and the subject matter is of deep concern to all of us. Having been a teacher myself and having brought up a family, I share the concerns that we all agree on, but I do not feel that legislation is always the answer to life’s ills.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Kennedy and Lady Walmsley, both talked about high-quality teaching. In the past I have met a number of parents whose children were taught PSHE in school and who found it totally inappropriate and very badly taught. I would be very concerned about how we would guarantee the quality of that kind of teaching. We all hear that in some schools—although not all—things like career advice are given as an aside and, because they are not considered mainstream, they are felt to be not terribly important and are not terribly well taught. This issue is incredibly important and, if it is going to be taught at all, it should be taught appropriately.

As a parent, I also feel very strongly that parental involvement should exist. I find it disconcerting to hear, “Well, parents shouldn’t be included at all. It’s really none of their business. The state knows better than they do”. If we are to go down this route, there needs to be some way in which parents are brought into those discussions about what is taught and how it is taught.

School is not the only place that young people meet; they see relationships not only in videos and in pornography but through television soaps and in books and magazines. We have a huge task in front of us. I do not think that, merely by supporting these two amendments, we are going to have a panacea and the world’s ills will be cured overnight.

This is a serious subject, but I worry that by legislating we will think we have solved the problem and we can leave it alone. We need to think very carefully about what happens in schools and about school rules. There are many things apart from PSHE that can influence the relationships between young people. I do not feel that I can support the amendments, but I have strong concerns about the way that society and young people are being influenced by some very evil things.

Schools: Careers Advisers

Baroness Knight of Collingtree Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, my basic view is that it is horses for courses. Different children need different things. There will be some who will need intensive support of the sort to which my noble friend refers. There will be others who know exactly what they want to do and will need less.

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree]

My Lords, will my noble friend continue to bear in mind that, however good the careers advice may be, if the student cannot get an apprenticeship it is often very difficult to follow such advice that they may have received? The link is very important.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. That is why we have rapidly been increasing the number of apprenticeships for under-18s and over-18s. The best support that one can give to children to prepare for a career is a decent education. That is why our focus is on what goes on in schools before they are 16 because careers advice, however good it is, cannot compensate if there is a basic deficiency in the education that has been provided.

UN Convention on the Rights of the Child

Baroness Knight of Collingtree Excerpts

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

Forgive me if I did not deal with that. I do not know that there are barriers in the sense in which the question was put. We need to make sure that post-legislative scrutiny takes these factors into account; and that, while legislation is being drawn up within departments, the requirement to take into account the UNCRC obligations is taken properly into account, and that Ministers and departments are aware of that. Another factor that will help is the new powers which we hope will be given to the Children’s Commissioner, if we can get a legislative slot to do so, which will make the Children’s Commissioner more independent of my department and accountable to Parliament rather than to the department. That will also have a role in shining a spotlight on this.

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree]

My Lords, has my noble friend noted the number of cases being reported of children being taken from their own parents on a very extraordinary basis of reasoning? Bearing in mind that it is always best if children can have a home with their parents, does he accept that this is a serious matter that worries many of us?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am aware of the issue and of my noble friend’s concerns about it. Clearly if one can be certain that the parental home is the right place for a child to be, that is obviously where one would want them to be: in a loving family. I know that my honourable friend Mr Loughton, who is responsible for adoption, takes those concerns seriously.

Schools: Homophobic Bullying

Baroness Knight of Collingtree Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

Without wishing to be too prescriptive about everything that Ofsted will look for, as the noble Lord will know the whole purpose of our slimming down the inspection framework for Ofsted to concentrate on four core areas—including behaviour and safety—is precisely so that they have more time to look for the kind of issues that the noble Lord is concerned about. The framework that we are putting in place will sharpen the focus on behaviour and the way in which Ofsted looks for bullying of all kinds.

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that any bullying for any reason is absolutely obnoxious and should be assailed and stopped wherever it happens?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree with my noble friend. If one is on the receiving end of bullying, no matter what the motivation is it feels pretty horrid.

Children: Commercialisation

Baroness Knight of Collingtree Excerpts

Thursday 10th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

It is absolutely the case that there are some systems and filters that enable parents to try to control the flow of some of that material. The Government have been working with the BSI for kitemarked products, so that parents can have confidence that they will work. I agree that the internet and the laptop in the bedroom pose dangers. There is a big generational issue in that parents, by and large—certainly, of my generation—are not fully equipped to know what is going on in the same way that children are. Children are much savvier. The difficulty is in how one keeps up with the pace of technological change and enforces it. There is no simple way of enforcing this. Parents have to know what their children are up to and do what they can to give them guidance.

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree]

My Lords, in the investigation that is to take place and which my noble friend described, could he ensure that the abuse of tiny babies, which seems to be reported frighteningly frequently these days, is also looked at under this heading?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

That issue is being addressed separately, not as part of this review. I agree that it is important, and the Government, led by my honourable friend Tim Loughton, are looking into those issues.

Children: Adoption

Baroness Knight of Collingtree Excerpts

Thursday 9th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree with the point made by the right reverend Prelate about the importance of voluntary adoption agencies. One issue around the timeliness of adoption—this point lies behind the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne—is that some local authorities appear to have been slightly resistant to using voluntary adoption agencies. In part, there has been an issue over the perceived greater expense of these agencies. However, research shows that when you take all the figures into account, including overhead costs, voluntary adoption agencies are no more expensive than local authority provision.

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree]

My Lords, will my noble friend assure the House that the rights of parents who strongly object to having their child adopted are clearly heard, and that they are allowed to speak in their own defence in a court of law?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

It is absolutely the case. With all these difficult issues, the paramount point is to protect the rights of the child. I completely agree with my noble friend that one should make sure that parents, too, have every opportunity and right to make their views known. As part of the review of the family justice system, the point that my noble friend makes will be borne very much in mind.

Children: Care

Baroness Knight of Collingtree Excerpts

Wednesday 24th November 2010 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will review the rules which permit local authorities to remove babies or children from the care of their parents.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

My Lords, we have no plans to review the rules governing taking children into care. The law, which has been in place since 1989, is clear that children should live with their parents wherever possible. However, action must be taken if a child is suffering, or is likely to suffer, significant harm. Where a child is taken into care on a care order, the court is required to treat the welfare of the child as its paramount consideration.

[Baroness Knight of Collingtree]

My Lords, why do family courts not follow the normal rules of justice and fairness practised in all other courts? Why are parents who are under threat of losing their children not permitted to know of any written evidence against them or to have an independent expert challenge such evidence? Why are they threatened with prison if they complain to their MP about that?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, I am aware that there are issues around the operation of the family courts system and a review of the family justice system is under way. I will reflect on the points made by my noble friend and would be happy to discuss them with her further and to arrange a conversation for her with my honourable friend Mr Loughton, who is the relevant Parliamentary Under-Secretary.