Clothing Sales: Sustainability

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We have very demanding targets in our Environment Act commitments, which include reduction by 50% to 2019 levels. The noble Baroness is absolutely right about the impact of fashion and textiles in terms of both carbon and the use of embedded water, and we will be publishing details next year of how we are going to progress the producer responsibility for textiles. Our priority is packaging.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, there are some outrageous claims made by people in the fashion industry about the sustainability of their products. What are the Government going to do about greenwashing and about tackling those claims, some of which are fabricated claims? The EU, as we have heard, is taking action, and that is one of the things it is going to legislate on. Are the Government similarly going to take action on that?

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Report stage
Monday 4th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly to the amendment. The noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, has set out extremely well why we are keen to make local nature recovery strategies an effective tool for helping the Government hit their legally binding 2030 nature targets.

The noble Baroness quite rightly said that we did not believe that the current requirements for local planning development plans to simply “have regard to” their local nature recovery strategies would be an effective delivery mechanism. A planning authority could disregard all the spatial recommendations of the local nature recovery strategy and still be compliant with the duty. They could simply write that they “had regard to” the local nature recovery strategy without providing any evidence of how it had shaped the substance of their plans.

When we debated this in Committee, the Minister extolled the virtues of the guidance, and the noble Baroness made reference to the forthcoming guidance. But we did have a very good debate, led by the noble Baroness, Lady Willis, which highlighted the many omissions of the guidance already published. I will not go over all of that, but there is still a concern about the detail of it, and I hope that it will now reflect this new wording in the Bill.

As I said, and like the noble Baroness, I am grateful for Ministers having had subsequent meetings and for the further consideration of our arguments that has now taken place. The Government’s proposals make it much clearer that all tiers in the planning process must take account of local nature recovery strategies when they make their plans. It is not perfect, but it is a welcome concession. I therefore share the view of the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, that we should not pursue Amendment 182 at this stage.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Baronesses for their constructive contributions on this subject, both in Committee and more recently. As noble Lords know from the many Statements I have given to this House over recent years, I fully recognise the vital importance of nature and the pressing need for nature recovery. This is at the heart of the Government’s environmental improvement plan and our legally binding targets to halt, and subsequently reverse, species decline.

Local nature recovery strategies were created by the Government to deliver more co-ordinated, practical and focused action to help nature recover. We have been clear from the outset that the planning system has a key role to play in making this happen. Local nature recovery strategies and biodiversity net gain, which we will come on to later, are crucial policies that enable us to achieve this in practice.

Given the strong calls we have heard for more clarity about how the new strategies should be taken into account, we have brought forward government amendments to address this. These amendments would impose a requirement for plan-makers, at all tiers of the planning system, to take the content of local nature recovery strategies into account, and they are explicit about the different aspects of the strategies that must be considered in this context. In this way, we are providing a clear legal framework that plan-makers will need to work within—one that will make sure that priorities for nature recovery are properly addressed. As both noble Baronesses said, this will be reflected in the guidance that we have committed to produce for local planning authorities on how they are to consider local nature recovery strategies in planning. This guidance is in draft and will be published shortly. I am happy to have further conversations with noble Lords about this.

Although our amendments do not impose additional reporting duties on local planning authorities, the way that local nature recovery strategies are addressed through their plan-making will be transparent and open to public scrutiny through the processes of public consultation and examination. Given the importance of getting plans in place, and the pressures on local authority resources, it is important that we do not impose duties that can be met through other means. An enhanced requirement for local planning authorities to report on actions taken to deliver the objectives of local nature recovery strategies is not required at this time.

In May this year, the Government published guidance on how public authorities should comply with the Section 40 biodiversity duty under the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006, stating that local planning authorities should include information in their biodiversity reports about how local nature recovery strategies have informed policies, objectives and actions.

I really hope that what I have said addresses the concerns of the noble Baroness, Lady Willis, about how local nature strategies will work across boundaries, catchments and landscapes to make sure there is a coherence that fulfils the principles of the Lawton review of about a decade ago, which set out how our approach to wildlife sites and nature recovery should work.

I hope that I have said enough. I thank the noble Baronesses again for their work on this with us. I am grateful to have been given the hint that they will not press to a Division Amendments 182 and 202.

Live Animals: Export Ban

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 10th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, when will a suitable border inspection post be up and running in Calais? Can the Minister give a commitment that the ban will be introduced before live animal exports can go through Calais again, because I understand that that has been the barrier to there not being any in the recent past?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. We are in negotiations with the French authorities, and we want to make sure that there is a good border control post at Coquelles. That will assist us as well with the illegal import of products of animal origin, which are causing us great concern for biosecurity. I cannot give her an exact date, but I feel sure that a post will be created, and that will regularise the trade in both directions.

Water: Wales and England

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 7th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a crucial point. Household consumption amounts, on average, to 60% of public water supply and has decreased 5.2% since last year from 152 to 144 litres per person per day. This remains above the forecast of 136, but our environment improvement plan gives very strict targets for further reduction. Some of that is about communication, but it is also about demand-led measures, which can cause the dramatic reductions that we want to promote.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, in 2020 the Government reported that 3 billion litres—a huge 20% of the UK’s total supply—are lost every day through leakage from the pipes. Last month, Ofwat expressed concerns that some water companies do not have plans to meet the minimum requirement of a 50% reduction over the period 2017-18 to 2050. Can the Minister explain what urgent action is being taken to make sure that the water companies address this really serious concern?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Through our direction to Ofwat, the Government have made this an absolute priority. The latest figures show that three-quarters of companies are meeting their leakage targets and some have reduced leakage by more than 10% in the past two years. We will continue to crack down on the amount of water lost through leaks with targets; we expect leakage to reduce by 16% by 2025.

Horticultural Peat

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask His Majesty’s Government why they have delayed the complete ban on the sale of horticultural peat until 2030.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, we have not delayed the complete ban on the sale of peat. Last August, we announced that we would ban the sale of peat for use in amateur gardening by 2024. We are clear that we are considering limited technical exemptions for professional growers where alternatives do not exist. Professional use will be banned from 2026, with exemptions from the ban for essential use until 2030. These measures will be brought forward when parliamentary time allows.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but a voluntary approach to ending peat use was agreed in the horticultural sector back in 2011. It has already had 12 years to find alternatives—what has gone wrong with all that? As he said, most retail growers are already marketing peat-free compost and are on target to meet the 2024 deadline, so why do the professional growers need an extended deadline when, as we know, peat is not a unique growing medium and peat-free alternatives already exist? In the meantime, as he will know, every year of peat extraction—which is continuing to happen on an industrial scale—causes millions of tonnes of CO₂ to be released into the atmosphere.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right, which is why we are bringing forward this mandatory ban. I am aware of the voluntary requirement from 2011 to find an alternative because I brought it in. We are now having to pass measures to see this happen. The Horticultural Trades Association and others are registering concerns about how they are going to get their members to use alternative means and maintain our food security. Environmentalists and those of us who want to see an early ban are very keen for that to happen as quickly as possible. The fact that both sides are unhappy means that we might be getting this just about right.

Water Companies: Licences

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 24th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right: this was a key recommendation of the Pitt review following the floods in 2007. The Government are implementing it. It is complicated, because it is about who owns and has responsibility for the maintenance of the SUDS. My noble friend is right that this will have an impact on the amount of unwanted effluent that flows from developments into watercourses and aquifers, and it is being implemented—we are taking it forward urgently.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from the previous question about the water companies marking their own homework, can the Minister explain how it is that the water companies themselves are responsible for monitoring and reporting? Will that change? He will know that a lot of the monitors do not work, so how can we be assured that decisions will be made on the basis of accurate reporting? It is not in their interest to provide that accurate information.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

There was no information on this until 2013, when I required water companies to publish a full list. We now have—or will have in a matter of weeks—100% of all the monitors. The Environment Agency investigates anywhere a fault is not being correctly measured. The telemetry will exist to measure the quality of water in all these outflows, above the outflow and below it, so accurate comparisons can be taken. That sharing of information, which was lamentably woeful but which we have corrected, will be a key part of our attempts to successfully clear up our rivers.

Imported Beef

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 22nd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure that all imported beef has been produced using the same high welfare and environmental standards as beef produced in the United Kingdom.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. We remain firmly committed to upholding our world-leading animal welfare standards. Welfare standards are considered in all our trade negotiations, and each new agreement will continue to be subject to robust parliamentary scrutiny. It has always been the case that some products produced to different animal welfare standards can be imported into the UK as long as they comply with our import requirements. Those import requirements include the ban on meat treated with growth- promoting hormones.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply but how does this commitment on not lowering standards square with, for example, the recent deal to import Mexican beef, which we know has a higher carbon footprint than the UK’s and is contributing to tropical deforestation, or the deal with Australia, where they use hormone growth promoters that would be illegal to use in the UK? Can the Minister understand why struggling beef farmers issue a hollow laugh when they hear these promises to protect standards, which are simply ignored when our Trade Ministers are desperate to thrash out a deal?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

As I say, they will not be allowed to import beef that has been reared with growth-promoting hormones in it. That is absolutely clear. It is our policy, and it will remain so.

Water Companies: Pollution Penalties

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 22nd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Through the regulator, Ofwat, we have provided for water companies to be held to account where they are rewarding people in a way that is disproportionate to the service that they provide. That is a change that this Government have made, and it is being followed through by the regulator.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister says that there will be a review of the £250 million cap. Is lowering the amount being considered? Most people would be appalled if that is the case. Will it be a minimum of £250 million or are the Government thinking of having it higher? Can they reassure us about the scale of the review that is taking place?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The review is looking at everything. There is no attempt to resile from that figure. That figure relates to one area of sanction. It may be that we should look at unlimited fines to be decided by the courts. We are not suggesting a floor or a ceiling at this stage, but we want to ensure that water companies that knowingly, incompetently and against permitted agreements release sewage into our water and environment are sanctioned. I assure the noble Baroness that there is no attempt to resile from this.

Agricultural Transition Plan

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 1st February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for reminding me that I should have drawn noble Lords’ attention to my entry in the register as a farmer. As he knows, and as I have said frequently from this Dispatch Box, it is the Government’s policy that all trade deals should reflect our own high standards in environment and animal welfare, and that remains the policy of the Government.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister said that the Government were ring-fencing the £2.4 billion for ELMS, but the fact is that the basic payment scheme has been going down much more quickly than the sustainable farming incentive has been going up, so there is an inevitable gap in farmers’ incomes as a result of all that.

So I ask the Minister: how much of the £1 billion cut from farmers so far will they be able to get back this year through the ELM scheme? If he finds that the take-up is not the 70% that the Government aspire to, at what point will they go back and look at whether or not the factors are right and whether or not the payments are right? We all want it to be a success, but there is an awful lot of finger in the air at the moment, and we need to make sure that all that money does go back to the farming community to have long-term, sustainable farming enterprises in this country. So how much will they get, and at what point will the Government reconsider whether the amount should go up further?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We have tried to help farmers in as many ways as possible. For example, we have brought forward to a half-yearly payment what they are currently receiving in the basic payment scheme, so what they were receiving in one lump sum they now receive six- monthly. That has helped their cash flow.

There are other things, such as the extra money we have put into Countryside Stewardship, which has drawn many more people into the scheme and front-loaded some of that money. The fact that we are setting six new standards now as opposed to the original three that we were going to announce is another example of how we are pulling the money forward. We want to make sure that it is going into farmers’ pockets as quickly and as easily as possible, keeping the application for it simple and getting the money to them through the Rural Payments Agency as quickly as possible.

I cannot answer the noble Baroness precisely, for the simple reason that it is different for every farm. As a farmer looks at the proposals that we have announced, they will be able to see on each standard that there are different things that they can do that fit in with the ecosystem that they farm in—the water management that they want to achieve and the wildlife that they want to encourage, while still producing food—and every single farm will be different. We are also helping through the announcement we made on landscape recovery, allowing farmers to work together in clusters to bring forward schemes. That has been really effective at drawing people into that scheme as well. So I cannot tell her precisely because every farm is different, but that amount is ring-fenced and farmers will be supported through the scheme.

Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Bill

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Report stage
Wednesday 25th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, for her amendments, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, and—in the case of the first of the amendments—the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, have added their names.

The amendments require the animal welfare advisory body, when assessing precision-bred animal marketing authorisation applications, to also consider and report on the notifier’s history of compliance with relevant provisions of the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990, the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and other legislation it deems relevant. However, the purpose of the animal welfare declaration process is not to vet notifiers themselves, but to assess their applications for marketing authorisations. The role of the welfare advisory body is to use its scientific expertise to evaluate the notifier’s animal welfare declaration. It would not be an appropriate body to assess compliance history.

We expect notifiers, as with any other keepers of animals, to ensure they are in full compliance with all applicable animal welfare laws. The Animal Welfare Act, as mentioned in the noble Baroness’s amendment, will continue to apply to all vertebrate animals subject to precision breeding. Under the Act, it is already an offence either to cause any captive animal unnecessary suffering or to fail to provide for the welfare needs of the animal. Persons found to have committed certain serious offences under the Animal Welfare Act may be disqualified from keeping animals. Such persons would therefore be unable to keep animals that have been precision-bred.

Similarly, other animal welfare legislation provides for appropriate sanctions for non-compliance. For example, notifiers may also be licence holders for research under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act, known as ASPA. It is in the interest of such notifiers to ensure that any research involving animals carried out in the UK complies with the requirements of the ASPA licences relating to that research; these licences may be revoked or suspended if their conditions are not complied with.

Furthermore, the Bill provides powers under Clause 15 for regulations to enable the Secretary of State to suspend or revoke a precision-bred animal marketing authorisation if new information about the health or welfare of the animal or, crucially, its qualifying progeny comes to light, or if the notifier fails to comply with a legal requirement to report information about a relevant animal’s health and welfare under Clause 14. Regulations will describe the procedures to be followed when a marketing authorisation is suspended or revoked, and the consequences of such suspension or revocation.

Amendment 21 reflects ones put forward during previous stages, in this House and the other place. We intend to explore these matters further as we develop the technical details underpinning the animal welfare declaration process. The Government agree that safeguarding animal welfare is crucial, and I acknowledge the high level of interest in this topic. That is why, as I mentioned previously, we have commissioned an external research project to gather the evidence required to develop the health and welfare assessment that underpins the declaration process. This will enable us to set out, in regulations and guidance, the information that a notifier must provide to support their declaration that the health and welfare of a precision-bred vertebrate animal is not expected to be adversely affected.

Furthermore, Clause 13 already ensures that the Secretary of State will need to be satisfied with the animal welfare declaration before issuing a marketing authorisation. That is why we do not consider the amendment to be necessary. In addition, as I mentioned before, the power in Clause 25 allows us to set out in regulations what constitutes an adverse effect on health or welfare. This includes any parameters needed for assessing that and could include consideration of any known health and welfare issues in selectively bred animals.

Finally, the welfare declaration and the welfare advisory body’s assessment will be based on the principle that relevant precision-bred animals will need to be kept in conditions which satisfy existing requirements in the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and, where relevant, the Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) Regulations 2007. I fully understand the noble Baroness’s concerns. None the less, existing animal welfare legislation is in place and the Bill is intended to work alongside that to enable responsible innovation.

I will now address Amendments 17, 18 and 26 in my name. It is essential that the animal welfare protections under this Bill command strong public and stakeholder confidence. To that end, we have listened carefully to the points raised by the Opposition and stakeholders about the need for strong animal welfare protections. We understand that noble Lords feel that there should be more opportunity for parliamentary oversight of these vital elements of the legislation. Consequently, we are tabling these amendments so that regulations made under the powers in Clauses 11(5) and 22(3) will need to be debated and actively approved by both Houses of Parliament through the affirmative resolution procedure before they come into effect.

Amendment 17 relates to Clause 11(5). The amendment provides an increased opportunity for parliamentary scrutiny when powers are used to lay out the form and content of the animal welfare declaration and accompanying documents, and the information that must accompany the declaration.

Regulations under Clause 11(9) regarding provisions for an application for a precision-bred marketing authorisation to be made by a person other than the notifier are a technical and administrative matter and not of significant public interest. They will therefore remain subject to negative procedure.

Amendment 26 relates to Clause 22(3). This amendment will provide Parliament with an increased opportunity to scrutinise and debate the body which is to be designated as the animal welfare advisory body, while retaining the flexibility the Bill provides on how the advisory body can be established. We expect there to be strong public interest in the requirements set out in the animal welfare declarations, and we want to come to Parliament with a robust set of proposals informed by expert advice. Indeed, that is why we have already commissioned in Scotland’s Rural College to run an independent research project to set criteria for the animal welfare assessment and the evidence that will be required to accompany it.

The research will involve experts from the Animal Welfare Committee and a wide range of organisations with expertise in animal welfare, genetics and industry practice. This is a growing, innovative sector, and the regulatory system that oversees it is likely to need to evolve over time. Establishing the regulations in secondary legislation subject to the affirmative procedure will allow the Government to ensure that the regulatory system continues to achieve its goals in the long run, while maintaining proportionate parliamentary oversight of its design and future development. I hope noble Lords will be content to accept these amendments.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I should first declare an interest through my involvement at Rothamsted, as in the register. I have tabled Amendments 19, 20 and 21 in this group. They all focus on the welfare advisory body in protecting animal welfare. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, and the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, for their support.

Amendments 19 and 20 would require the welfare advisory body to look beyond the information provided by applicants to ensure that they have a consistent record of meeting animal welfare standards, as set out in previous legislation. Amendment 21 would require the welfare advisory body or the Secretary of State to consider wider health and welfare issues before granting a marketing authorisation. These factors, set out in the new clause, include the direct and indirect effects on the health of the animal or its offspring, whether there might be pain or suffering arising from increased yields or faster growth, and whether the precision-bred traits may result in the animal being kept in worse conditions. These amendments reflect the widespread concern raised in Committee about the consequences for animal welfare of extending precision-breeding techniques from plants to animals, and they also express the concerns of many animal welfare organisations, including the RSPCA and Compassion in World Farming, as well as the report from the Nuffield Council on Bioethics.

As we discussed before, British farming and traditional breeding techniques have not always had a great record on considering animal welfare. Without going back over all the arguments raised in Committee, I will say that there remains a fundamental concern that the genetic editing of animals will be used for the wrong purpose. Once we understand that there could be benefits from improved disease resistance in animals, we need better guarantees that this will not result in animals being kept in more crowded, stressful conditions, which in turn could result in the spread of new and emerging pathogens. Similarly, we need better guarantees that precision-breeding techniques will not be used to speed up selective breeding for fast growth, high yields and large litters, when they have historically caused a great deal of suffering to farm animals, despite the animal welfare legislation already in place.

All these concerns are raised against the backdrop that so much of the detail in this Bill is left to secondary legislation, so we do not know how its provisions will work in practice. I hope the Minister will understand why we are trying to spell out in more detail the specific animal welfare protections in this Bill. I shall make a further point: this is specifically about animal welfare. It is not a criticism of the whole Bill. It is about the specifics and our widespread concern about wanting to get animal welfare protections right.

Environmental Targets (Water) (England) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 23rd January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

Before the Minister sits down, can I take him back to the need for an overall ambition and overall target? The Environment Act says that it should be long-term. We understand that is what the Government are doing, so we might have other targets—and there is an awful lot of targets being floated around at the moment—but we also have the hope of a long-term target for water. So let us say within 15 years, which is what the Environment Act is talking about, could we say, notwithstanding pollutants that are leaching into the water that you cannot do anything about, which the Minister was specific about and will take longer, could we then have a guarantee that we will have clean water in our rivers, waterways and coastal waters within that 15-year deadline? That is doable, I would have thought, and I do not know why the Government do not say that and do not actually set that out as an ambition.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

That will, of course, be our aim. Dates are just dates; they are moments in time. The idea that we are going to allow pollution to carry on and then it is suddenly going to fall off a cliff is of course nonsense. Whoever is responsible, whether it is the Government, their agencies, private landowners, water companies, farmers or whoever it is will be tackling this either because they are forced to do it or because they are incentivised to do it, and they will get the graph moving, as they have already, downwards. They will deal, like we all do, with the low-hanging fruit first, and then they will move on to the more difficult and the hardest to reach.

There is absolutely that target that we should achieve. We set ourselves a really difficult target with continuing with the water framework directive in its form because a river will be divided under that regulation into reaches. If it fails on one factor in one of those reaches, the whole river fails. That is why only 16% of our rivers qualify. Some reaches of those rivers are in quite good condition. I do not mind that target being demanding, but we need to understand that it is very hard to achieve what we are setting out. We think it is achievable and is doable, but if there is one point-source pollution incident resulting in a spike in phosphorus on one reach of a very long river, that river fails. So these are hard targets to hit, but we are determined to achieve that, and that is why I commend these regulations to the House.

National Parks

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Our ambition is to reverse any decline in species. We have policies that will see, across the country, an end to the decline of species by 2030 and an uptick in the populations that we see across our islands. On the particular point, we want to see 35,000 hectares of peat restored by 2025 and 280,000 hectares by 2050. AONBs and national parks will be fundamental to that, because they are where most of it lies.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest on national parks as in the register. Returning to the 40% cut in real terms that national parks have received over the last decade—at a time, I should say, when they have never been more popular or had more demand on their services—the Minister has talked about other funds that are going into the national parks, but does he accept that that is not core funding and is going to other organisations in the parks? It is the national parks themselves—the rangers, the services and the visitor centres—that are core to providing a good visitor experience and encouraging more people to go into the parks. Does he accept that we should be more ambitious about the role that national parks can play? If we are to do that then they will need more core funding, not the supplementary funding that the Minister is talking about.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I think national parks are very good at getting that money in, whether from the private sector or blended finance. There is a very good arrangement with Palladium called Revere, which sees some money going into supporting, for example, core personnel in national parks to do projects right across those parks. All areas of government have challenges at the moment, particularly in the light of inflationary pressures. The national parks have proved themselves very resilient. I want to make sure that we can find more for money for them in the future. That is a key part of our decisions into the next spending round.

Environmental Principles Policy Statement

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 9th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I have not read the article that the noble Baroness refers to, but I will, and I will discuss it with ministerial colleagues. We will incorporate the principles into the guidance that the Cabinet Office gives on legislation once we have published them, which will be in the next few weeks. We will incorporate them into the Treasury’s Green Book at the same time.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has acknowledged that there has been a considerable delay in publishing the final version of the environmental principles. He talked about an implementation period. Given the delay that has already taken place, can he assure us that it will be a short implementation period and that within three months there will be a statutory obligation on all Ministers across all departments to abide by the environmental principles that we still await?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I think the noble Baroness is referring to a recommendation by the Environmental Audit Committee. I understand the urgency, but three months is too short. I do not think that much longer than that is necessary. We have considerable experience in putting in other duties across government and trying to assist departments in the creation of policies that take into account the five principles. It is really important that we get that right. I do not expect it to take much longer than three months. It will certainly be up and running across government towards the end of this year.

Traffic-related Air Pollution

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 21st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government’s own watchdog, the Office for Environmental Protection, said that the Government’s proposed PM2.5 air pollution targets are “unambitious” and

“lack sufficient urgency to reflect the scale of change needed”.

What message does that send to the one in five people in the UK living with respiratory conditions?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness will be pleased to know that our ambitious targets under the Environment Act will be set out under the environmental improvement plan, which will include really stretching targets on the most damaging pollutants. There has been a good news story in the last decade about how we have reduced them, but that is not enough, and she is right to say that this still affects the health and life chances of many people, particularly some in deprived areas. This is about making sure that local authorities have the funds necessary to introduce schemes, and about having stretching national targets that will be respected around the world.

Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Bill

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Committee stage
Monday 12th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

With respect, I would not want to do that. In the same way that we are insisting that these measures can be achieved over a longer period of time through traditional plant-breeding techniques, if they are safe, it can be applied for food crops and in protection of our trees and woodlands, and it may have applications in other areas which will help our economy, particularly our green economy. I would not want to restrict it from those sectors.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response. I accept, as several noble Lords have said, that there is a role for gene-editing techniques in breeding disease-resistant trees. My noble friend Lady Wilcox gave the good example of ash dieback and we can think of other examples of such applications.

The Minister seems to be going gung-ho for all markets, if I could put it like that. I caution against that. As I said earlier, we need to do this step by step. We all understand the pressure to feed the nation more productively, but I am not sure that it is a priority to go beyond that to things that are more decorative, for example, even if there is a market at this time. I would have liked the Government to have had a more balanced view to this, but I will study what the Minister said more carefully in Hansard.

Moving on to Amendment 31, I do not think the Minister actually answered the fundamental question, which is whether the advisory committee will be asked to look at the wider implications for agriculture of these particular techniques. Will it be looking purely at whether the individual genome is safe or at how it might impact on the wider landscape, if it is planted in the wider landscape? All we were asking is whether the advisory committee will be given that role. The noble Lord mentioned other pieces of legislation, but we should not have to rely on them to make sure that the environment is protected. It would be nice to see that written into the Bill.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I will just answer that precise point. That is very much what ACRE does. It would not just be restricted to looking at a narrow area of science but the wider implications of the release into the environment and any impacts that that could have.

Sustainable Farming Incentive Grants

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 5th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to increase applications for the Sustainable Farming Initiative grants from farmers.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. This June, we opened applications for the sustainable farming incentive, the first of our environmental land management schemes. Though it is early days, we have already seen positive interest. The scheme is being introduced incrementally, and the full offer will be in place by 2025. As the SFI offer is expanded, uptake is expected to accelerate. We are continuing to promote the scheme through our various communications channels to raise awareness of its benefits and to build interest.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the sad fact is that this scheme, which was the bedrock of the Agriculture Act, had hardly got going before the Government announced that it was being reviewed. As a result, fewer than 2,000 farmers have signed up for the new payment scheme, while the old basic payment scheme, on which some 80,000 farmers are reliant, continues to be phased out. This has left an almost £1 billion hole in the rural economy, and we know that farmers are already suffering huge financial costs at this time. The department’s handling of this flagship policy is widely considered to have been a shambles. When will the revised scheme be up and running? Can we be assured that it will maintain the environmental and biodiversity ambitions that underpinned the Act in the first place? How will farmers be compensated for the financial consequences of the delay in rolling it out?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I do not accept that there has been a delay, with respect to the noble Baroness. We are tapering out the basic payment scheme—which is understood right across this House as being bad for both the environment and farmers, particularly smaller ones—and replacing it with a scheme through which farmers are starting to see how they can fill the gap created by that taper down. As things stand, the standards that we have published give farmers roughly between £22 and £60 per hectare. We are going to roll out another four standards next year, another five the year after and another five the year after that. There has been no greater degree of consultation in the history of Defra in terms of how we have engaged with the farming community here. This is an iterative process. We have improved the scheme as it has gone on. The response we have had from farming organisations and individual farmers has been positive.

Water Companies: Pollution

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My noble friend raises a very important point. The chalk streams strategy, written by Charles Rangeley-Wilson, whom I suspect was my noble friend’s constituent, is a brilliant piece of work which the Government have accepted and which will form the basis of our policies to put these very valuable environmental and ecological systems in a pristine state as quickly as possible.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister talked about the enormous fines that can be given to water companies, but Ofwat has already admitted that it is able to fine up to only 10% of their turnover. Ofwat said that this is a very small percentage of the value of those companies, because they are so asset-rich. Will he look again at the limits on the fines that can be passed on to the water companies, because they are clearly not working?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am very pleased to make the noble Baroness’s day by saying that we have increased a thousandfold, from £250,000 to £250 million, the upper limit on which water companies can be fined.

Environmental Targets

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 31st October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for his kind words. I share his and other noble Lords’ disappointment that we have not been able to fulfil the perhaps over-ambitious target date set out in the Act. However, I am confident that we will be able to show that we have meaningful evidence-based targets that will deliver on our overriding commitment to see a reversal in the decline of species by 2030. He is absolutely right to highlight the importance of sites, and the protection of rare and special habitats within them, as part of our 30by30 commitment. We are absolutely determined to achieve this not just for our own domestic benefit but, importantly, so we can say to other countries in the CBD, “We are doing it; so should you”.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will know that the Office for Environmental Protection has also taken this failure seriously. In its latest letter to the Secretary of State, it has pointed out that this is not the only failure to comply with statutory legislation—it has also kindly included an annexe of other failures to comply. It is a non-exhaustive list and, as it says, a pattern is beginning to develop. Can the Minister assure us that Defra is addressing these issues? These are not just policies; they are statutory requirements that have been missed time and again. Can the Minister tell us what the department is doing to get back on track on these issues?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

One reason why we will be publishing these targets later than we would have liked, and later than the Act required, is that we had over 180,000 responses to our consultation. It is important that we listen to those, because these targets affect people whose interests are not directly affected by Defra; they could be right across the whole gamut of what government does and how it regulates. It is important that we get this right.

I would hate for any noble Lord to believe that this is the one area of the Environment Act that really matters. It covers a whole range of other issues: storm overflows, our environmental principles, biodiversity net gain, waste, illegal deforestation, the establishment of the Office for Environmental Protection, and local nature recovery strategies. Work on all those are under way, and they were written into the Environment Act, which is what makes it such a world-beating piece of legislation that we want to see implemented.

Environment Act 2021: Targets

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are committed to halting the decline of nature by 2030 and will not undermine our obligations to the environment in pursuit of growth. A strong environment and a strong economy go hand in hand. We have legislated through the Environment Act and will continue to improve our regulations and wildlife laws in line with our ambitious vision. His Majesty’s Government remain committed to the Environment Act and will publish ambitious, achievable and robust targets soon.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will know that failure to set those targets before 31 October is unlawful and risks the Government being taken to court. It also makes a mockery of all those months of hard work we put into debating the then Environment Bill, because without the targets we have no way of measuring the progress the Government are making on the Act’s implementation. Is this another sign that the Government are backtracking on their environmental commitments, as—quite frankly—was becoming all too clear under the previous Prime Minister, who sneered at the broad coalition of environmentalists?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I will not sneer at any environmentalists. I sat on the board of several NGOs before I took on this role, and I mind desperately that we continue to be a leading country in how we protect the environment. We have consulted on those targets and had 180,000 responses, which are taking some time to go through. We will produce targets that are science-based, evidence-based and cover a range of issues which were of great concern to noble Lords as we took through the Environment Act. We will honour those commitments.

Food: Imports and Security

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 24th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is absolutely right: there are areas for growth in our farming productivity. We want to see what we can produce. We are more than self-sufficient in produce such as lamb and poultry, but we want the opportunity to export as well. There are huge opportunities in horticulture, which is why we are working really hard with that sector to improve the productivity of food production right across the piece, and to look at the export opportunities that quality foods can achieve.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the fact is that a small number of global food companies are making huge profits out of the current crisis, which is affecting not only consumers but farmers as well. Why do not the Government use the powers in the Environment Act to take action on supply chain regulation to make sure that everybody shares in the profits available there? Furthermore, why do not the Government take action to curb financial speculation in the food markets, because that is at the heart of the problem here?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am very happy to take up any specific cases where the noble Baroness feels that undue influence has been applied to the supply chain. We have complex supply chains in this country; she is quite right to state that some companies are based overseas. However, where we find problems we can take action, not just through the Environment Act but through the Groceries Code Adjudicator, which this Government also set up.

Household Waste Recycling

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My noble friend is right that households, particularly hard-pressed households, can save a lot of money by managing their food waste better. It is question of encouragement, education from an early stage and support, but it is not for me or the Government to dictate how people operate in their home. This is an enormous burden on society. We have to dispose of this, and I am delighted that food waste recycling will be consistent over the country, but we want to have to recycle much less.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

Further to the Question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, can the Minister explain the growing disparity in recycling rates between England and Wales? Last year, England’s rate went down to 43.8% while Wales’s rate increased to 65.4%. If Wales can be so successful, why can England not be? What discussions are being held with the Welsh Government so that we can learn those lessons and apply them to England?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right that recycling levels have plateaued. Over the pandemic, they went down by 1.5%. The decrease reflects the impact of Covid, with waste tonnages from home increasing as people spent more time at home and waste collections decreasing due to household waste recycling centres being closed. She is also right that there are disparities not just between England and Wales but between different parts of England. That is why, through the provisions in the Environment Act, we want consistency. In every home, even if people move from one part of the country to another, they must know that they can recycle the same articles of their household waste in the same way in all parts of the country to help us hit our targets.

Food Strategy White Paper

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My department has overall responsibility for that, working with other departments. The noble Baroness is right: this is not something government can just mandate. We have an extremely efficient food distribution network and supply chain which was found to be resilient during Covid. It now needs to adapt to a changing world and changing demands from the consumer to make sure that we do not have the vulnerabilities that have been exposed this week in the Netherlands. We want to make sure that we are working with industry to get this right.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

The Minister will know that I have the greatest respect for him, and I am surprised to see that he is still in his place today, but nevertheless can he explain how the important health issues in the Dimbleby report, which are about obesity, controlling junk food, advertising and reducing food inequalities, will be taken forward given that they are not included in the food strategy from the Government, regardless of the fact that we do not appear to have any Ministers to deal with it at the current time?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I have a long list here, but I would get in trouble if I read it out. It is all the elements of the Dimbleby report that the Government are taking forward. The noble Baroness is right to refer to issues relating to health and well-being and the obesity strategy. They are massive issues for society and government. We have clear plans to try to tackle them. There have been 14 obesity strategies in her and my lifetime. I hope we now have one that integrates some really good evidence and that we are implementing through a variety of ways: education, health trusts, GPs and a cross-government approach.

Common Agricultural Policy (Cross-Compliance Exemptions and Transitional Regulation) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to this SI and for the helpful briefing beforehand. I accept that the majority of these changes are technical in nature.

First, although it is not ideal, I understand why the changes to EU regulation 2020/2220 could not be made at this time, given that it was passed so close to the end of the transition period. It therefore makes sense to take this opportunity to remove the provisions to minimise ambiguity and potential confusion. I also accept that it is helpful to remove redundant references to the EU and member states where they no longer apply in UK law.

Secondly, with regard to the changes to cross-compliance regulations, I can see why it might be necessary to widen the scope of the existing cross-compliance exemptions as set out in Schedule 3. However, I have some specific questions about this. These new exemptions to the schedule are very specific and refer only to the specific changes we made to Section 98 of the Environment Act 1995 and Section 1 of the Agriculture Act 2020. Can we be sure that these two provisions are the only two occasions where exemptions to the cross-compliance rules should be necessary?

I am struggling with some of the detail here, but I do not think many farmers will be operating exclusively under those agreements. That raises the question of what happens if, for example, their environmental work is, say, 20% but also has a direct impact on other activities, such as food production, at 80%. Would they be penalised, or is there an element of discretion? If so, what would that look like? In other words, what is the interface between the old cross-compliance and the new arrangements? How much discretion is there in all that or is it absolutely fixed in stone?

I still do not feel, having read the SI several times, that the application of the cross-compliance rules is clear, notwithstanding double negatives and so on. I would not relish being a farmer and having to try to understand and apply them. To be absolutely clear about this, are they to be applied only to claims under the old basic payment scheme? Therefore, will the cross- compliance rules be phased out as any claims under the old CAP scheme are phased out?

Given that there is wide acknowledgement that the CAP was too rigid and the financial penalties for non-compliances were too onerous, why are the Government not taking this opportunity to introduce the lighter-touch regime we were promised when we debated the then Agriculture Bill? Can we be assured that the roll-out of ELMS and any future UK agricultural and rural payment schemes will be assessed without cross-compliance penalties? How is that all going to work in future?

I look forward to the Minister’s response. I also look forward to the Minister’s response to the very interesting questions from the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, which I would like to know the answers to as well.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness and my noble friend for their contributions; I will try to answer their questions.

On the dashboard, these regulations and all retained EU law will be carefully reviewed as we go through the next few months. The Bill text is yet to be finalised. We are working closely with the Cabinet Office on what will be required in Defra-retained legislation. My noble friend Lady McIntosh is right to point out that we are coming to the end of the transition period, which is why we are doing all this stuff now. The tidying-up operation we are bringing in is because the sunset element of the EU withdrawal Act will be later this year and we want to get these matters resolved.

My noble friend asked how this instrument relates to the Brexit freedoms Bill. This instrument was an EU exit instrument made using the powers of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. As such, it makes no policy changes and does no more than is appropriate to make this common agricultural policy legislation fully operable now that the transition period with the EU has concluded. The Brexit freedoms Bill makes it easier to amend or remove outdated retained EU law from the statute book, ensuring that the UK continues to seize the benefits of Brexit and utilise our regulatory freedoms. Future regulation will be in line with our new regulatory principles. This answers some of the points that the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, made. Our rules will be proportionate and create a collaboration with business to help spur on economic growth.

I would just say, to her final point on ELMS, that we are trying to generate a culture change within agriculture. The cross-compliance rules of the common agricultural policy were tedious—I speak with the scars on my back from having to fill in the IACS forms and all their successors—and you could feel the dead hand of government on your shoulder regulating every aspect of what you do. We are transferring to a system that trusts farmers to draw down from a list of possible actions they might like to take and treats them rather like we do taxpayers. We taxpayers fill in our tax returns and the Government trust us unless they have reason not to. Occasionally, they will do an inspection. Occasionally, they will do a risk-based, intelligence-based assessment of whether somebody is at risk of breaking those rules. If they do break those rules, there are sanctions, but we want to be working with farmers much more, encouraging them into the new schemes and seeing the benefits that will come from that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, made a very important point about cross-compliance regulation and enforcement. We are reforming our regulatory system, as I have said, to meet the country’s need and we will deliver a clear, fair and effective system. Cross-compliance will end at the point that the CAP direct payments are dealing from land. However, protections provided by cross-compliance will mostly continue. Domestic legislation already contains most of the same rules as cross-compliance and enforcement action to deal with any non-compliance.

The end of cross-compliance provides an opportunity, as I say, to move away from an approach that is seen to be disproportionate. We are reforming our farming regulatory system using the Dame Glenys Stacey 2018 review recommendations and by working closely with farmers and others. We want a farming regulatory approach that is focused on outcomes and based on the core principles of partnership, adaptability, proportionality, transparency and efficiency.

Some questions related to the whole area of complexity. Defra is working hard to make the system as easy as possible for everyone. We have simplified the online application system to make it faster and easier for farmers to apply and revised the scheme standards to make them clearer and more self-explanatory. Farmers can be in the SFI and the Countryside Stewardship scheme or the Environmental Stewardship scheme at the same time, so long as they are not being paid for the same actions twice and the actions are compatible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I am sorry, I do not normally interrupt the Minister, but can this be right? I think the Minister said, which I did not expect him to, that when the basic payment scheme is phased out, as it will be, cross-compliance will carry on after that. Is that the correct understanding of what he said?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

There is some conditionality on the scheme. If you say that you are going to plant a headland, you have to plant a headland with wild flowers, and it is the same if you are doing something that comes under the heading of “public goods” that we are pushing through our new schemes under the SFI. However, as I said, we want to do this with a light touch. We want farmers to be trusted to do it. The cross-compliance elements will remain as the schemes are phased out, but then we want to move to a system that is more trusting of farmers to do the right thing.

Plant Health etc. (Miscellaneous Fees) (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to both noble Baronesses for their points. To continue to protect plant biosecurity while facilitating the trade and movement of plants and plant material, it is essential that consignments that could pose a risk be subject to risk-based inspections before entering Great Britain. As I described, this instrument will maintain the alignment of plant health inspection fees with UK government policy to recover the full costs of official checks to manage risks arising from commercial activity.

I will respond in a rather random way to both questioners—I hope the Committee will forgive me. First, my noble friend Lady McIntosh and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked why the two SIs are being dealt with separately and why Parliament has not been given a chance to debate measures in the other SI before deciding on this one. The Official Controls (Plant Health) (Frequency of Checks) Regulations 2022 set out the methods used to calculate the frequencies on which the fees in this instrument are based. Those methods and the resulting frequencies of checks have been published via consultation.

Both SIs are scheduled to come into force on 22 July and require scheduling to ensure that they do so in an aligned fashion. The difference in scheduling of these SIs is due to the different type of parliamentary procedure that they should follow, determined by their parent Acts. The Official Controls (Plant Health) (Frequency of Checks) Regulations 2022 will be open to full parliamentary scrutiny, as per the negative procedure, following being laid on 30 June.

I reassure both noble Baronesses that we have raised the standards of biosecurity in this country since leaving the EU. We have put resources behind it, employing 150 more inspectors, and we are approaching it in a unified way, with Border Force improving our training at ports of entry. As the Committee knows, we are rolling out our BCPs in the coming months to make sure that we stop more high-risk plants at the border, rather than at point of delivery.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked about some fees and checks being reduced significantly and whether that means that we are somehow weakening biosecurity as we will not be inspecting so intensively. The new inspection arrangements are based on international standards for categorising commodities according to risk. This will allow the Animal and Plant Health Agency to focus on those commodities representing the highest potential risk, including trees and other woody plants to be grown outdoors, while reducing input on those products representing a low risk due to their intended use, such as houseplants and many fruits and vegetables for consumption. In this way, we will be targeting resources in the most effective way to protect GB biosecurity while avoiding unnecessary burdens and costs on businesses.

The noble Baroness asked who makes this decision. Experts make the decision, not me. Our Chief Plant Health Officer, who I speak to regularly and have spoken to today, and I have a monthly biosecurity meeting where we look at risks, but the risk is managed by people who understand its evidence base. Those are the basic criteria around which we make this decision. The plant health risk group meets monthly and continuously monitors new threats, taking account of the results of import inspections and other relevant information, such as scientific reports and developments in other countries. Inspection frequencies are one tool by which risks can be mitigated, and they will be kept under frequent review. However, it is already the case that the highest-risk plants and products, including trees and woody plants, will be inspected more intensively, and that we will keep our import requirements under continuous review to determine where they need to be strengthened in response to new or altered risks, as was the case in the recent pine processionary moth incident.

Going back to my noble friend Lady McIntosh, certain goods are subject to routine sampling and testing, such as seeds. In other cases, goods are sampled when an inspector sees something concerning during an official import inspection. A sample is taken to confirm the presence or absence of a controlled pest.

A question was asked about the large difference between some fees. It is a good point to make. The risk associated with specific commodities is the basis on which the fees are set. The highest-risk commodities are subject to 100% documentary, identity and physical checks and 100% of associated fees. Lower-risk goods are subject to lower frequencies of checks and therefore proportionately lower fees. Defra and its agencies are not alone in doing this. There is a protocol across Whitehall about charging for these activities. That protocol is set by the Treasury. We work closely with it to make sure that our rules for cost recovery are in accordance with those laid by the Government.

I should say at this point that the Government announced on 28 April that the remaining import controls on goods from the EU, Liechtenstein and Switzerland, including plants and plant products, will no longer be introduced this year. Instead, traders will continue to move their goods from the EU to GB as they do now. The rest of the controls which were planned for introduction on 1 July are no longer going ahead. This means that import checks of high-priority plants and plant products will not be moving to border control posts yet. Deregulated and notifiable produce and cut flowers will not be subject to import checks from July. Low-risk Article 73 goods will no longer require prenotification but will be assessed on a risk basis.

I have received inspiration in reply to a question about who makes the decision. This is agreed on the basis of consultation with stakeholders, as we have done with this SI, which has the support of the industry. That is really important to us.

There was also a question about the flat-rate fee. The fee will be in place until a fees review has taken place. That will involve a full review of all plant health fees, including the methodologies used to determine them. It is a multi-year process involving close work with stakeholders.

The other point I would make is on the disparity in funding for foliage versus physical checks, which the noble Baroness rightly raised. There is a serious risk to seed potatoes, which is why they are charged at a higher cost. Foliage—an apple, for example—is a simple product to assess. We want to make sure that we are doing it on the basis of risk but also in accordance with cross-government rules on charging.

As I have outlined, these regulations ensure that full cost recovery of plant health services is maintained and that the costs of inspecting imported plant health-controlled material are met by those businesses using Defra’s import inspection services. With that—

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his reply, which was, as ever, very comprehensive. I just want to go back to the original point about the missing SI that is not here. The Minister said that it and this SI originally came from two pieces of legislation, which is why they ended up here in a different order, but there must be somebody in Defra who can apply a bit of common sense to that ordering. I do not wish to make too much heavy weather of it but I hope that a lesson is learned from this. The department needs to ensure that, whatever the originating piece of legislation, instruments come before Parliament in a sensible order so that we can deal with concurrent bits of legislation at the same time. I leave that thought with the Minister.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

That thought is well made and will be reflected on. We want to make sure that we are doing this properly. As the noble Baroness says, the instruments come from two separate pieces of legislation. Which measures are affirmative or negative, in what is brought before us in this place, is an enigma wrapped in a mystery to me. However, there are wiser minds than mine that understand these things. I accept the point: we try to apply common sense in everything we do and make it easy for noble Lords to hold the Government to account, but we are bound here by two distinct pieces of legislation. I am hopeful that they will go on to the statute book and improve the regime, and be in place by the middle of next month.

Water Companies: Sewage Discharge Monitoring

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 21st June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have, if any, to require water companies to monitor the volume of sewage discharged into water courses and not just the frequency of such discharges.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I refer noble Lords to my entry in the register. The volume of storm overflow discharge is not directly proportional to its harm as the concentration of sewage in discharges depends on the volume of rainwater it is mixed with. Therefore, we have taken a more effective approach to place a duty on water companies in the Environment Act to directly monitor the impact of discharges on water quality upstream and downstream of overflows. This monitoring system will identify harm from storm overflows and ensure that water companies are held to account through enforcement action.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that response, but the Environment Agency has already said that there has

“been widespread and serious non-compliance with the … regulations.”

How can it be expected to act if water companies do not have to measure the intensity of polluting sewage being discharged. Of course there is a cost, but we have always known that more investment is essential to tackle this problem. The Commons Environmental Audit Committee has already recommended installing these monitors, so why are the Government siding with the water companies against the interests of the public, who are rightly outraged at this ongoing scandal?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The Government are very much not siding with the water companies. The level of storm overflows into our rivers is totally unacceptable. That is why we are publishing on 1 September this year our storm overflows plan, which will give details of how we will monitor this. We have measures within the Environment Act which give new legally binding targets and measures which we will bring into force. We have the 25-year plan commitment and our strategic policy statement for Ofwat, which gives a very clear direction. We also have our requirements to the Environment Agency on enforcement, which will hold water companies that break the law to account.

Animal Welfare (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 20th June 2022 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, this instrument makes several minor, technical amendments to retained EU regulations, correcting deficiencies so that the legislation operates effectively. These regulations relate to the protection and welfare of animals during transport and to official controls on the imports of animals, animal products, plants and plant products, including food and other imports relevant to the agri-food chain.

In Great Britain, the Animal and Plant Health Agency issues authorisations to commercial transporters of animals which can show that they meet the regulatory requirements, such as having appropriately trained and competent staff. For long journeys, the Animal and Plant Health Agency also approves journey plans, known as journey logs, prior to the journey beginning. Approval of a journey log depends on the transporter demonstrating that it can meet the welfare needs of the animals being transported, through providing appropriate rest, food and water. The requirement for an APHA-approved journey log extends to EU transporters that wish to import animals to Great Britain.

This instrument clarifies the role and powers of the competent authority to grant or refuse requests for journey logs and transporter authorisations needed for the transport of live animals into, out of and through Great Britain. This will allow for better enforcement, as the role and powers of that authority would otherwise be unclear in some circumstances, resulting in possible confusion on the ground.

It also clarifies a power of the competent authority to recover the costs of enforcement action where appropriate; that is, it provides the competent authority with the discretion to decide whether to recover costs. The powers of the competent authority are not affected, and the change is intended to make it clear that cost recovery is an option for the regulator. The power to recover costs, without an obligation to do so, enables the authority to take into account circumstances and make decisions regarding cost recovery on a case-by-case basis.

This instrument removes defunct references to various EU systems and organisations—contact points, mutual assistance schemes and an oversight committee. It also removes the legal requirement to report annually to the European Commission on long journeys and animal welfare inspections. Multiple references to “EU member states” are replaced with “Great Britain”. An outdated requirement to provide rules on penalties for infringements of animal welfare in transport regulations by 5 July 2006 is removed, as those rules were laid by that date and are currently in force. Finally, outdated references to other regulations, relating to training for competent authority staff, other veterinary legislation and animal welfare inspections for animals destined for slaughter, are corrected, ensuring that the regulators’ ability to enforce welfare standards is maintained.

The amendments contained in this instrument are necessary to ensure that, in line with current government policy, we can enforce our high animal welfare standards and protect the UK’s biosecurity. I beg to move.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister very much for that introduction. We agree that these changes are broadly technical in nature but, once again, we have an SI before us which, in its own words, corrects failures and deficiencies in retained EU law which should and could have been spotted earlier. First, can the Minister say how these errors came to light and why they were not identified earlier? Has there been any detriment to animal welfare controls since the adoption of the withdrawal Act in 2018, as a result of this incorrect wording?

Secondly, the Minister explained the rationale for changing mandatory cost recovery to discretionary cost recovery. On the face of it, this seems sensible, but can he say something more about the types of cases where it would not be in the public interest to pursue cost recovery? Is there a danger that, if we now switch to what he described as a “case-by-case basis”, it could lead to a broader fall in enforcement action, with many authorities making a financial calculation that the cost is just not worth the effort, particularly if it is a marginal benefit? Could there be an overall drop in enforcement as a result?

Finally, paragraph 7.5 of the Explanatory Memorandum says that the outdated references have been updated to refer to current legislation, and the Minister gave some examples of that. Are the current standards now in place equivalent to or better than the old ones that were there before? As this is quite a complex area of regulation, will it potentially be revisited as part of Jacob Rees-Mogg’s bonfire of EU regulations? If so, what will the process be and when will we hear more about how he intends to conduct that review? I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness for her questions and her understanding of the need for this. She rightly identified a number of areas that need clarification. I absolutely reiterate that these regulations do not reduce any current animal welfare standards. As the noble Baroness pointed out, they make technical but necessary changes to ensure that existing legislation on animal welfare during transport can continue to operate effectively in practice.

In answer to the noble Baroness’s first question, no detrimental effect nor operational issues have arisen since our EU exit but this legislation enables operational delivery. However, there is a need, met by this SI, to ensure that the role of the competent authority is clarified to avoid any points of confusion. There is also a need to ensure that the definition of the competent authority is consistent with that set out in the retained form of the official controls regulations. The other corrective measures in the SI, such as the removal of any obligations to report to the EU Commission and references to defunct legislation, are tidying-up requirements and so have not created any impact.

Leaving the EU was never going to be an easy job. The legislation that took us through the retained EU competence process left a number of anomalies, for which there is a time limit for us to sort out. This is one of them and is relatively minor. It could have been done earlier but is being done now. I hope that the noble Baroness understands.

The noble Baroness talked about the importance of recovery of costs. By providing discretion for costs recovery, we are allowing for situations where such actions would be impractical, uneconomic and not otherwise in the public interest. It is our view that this measure would enable money-saving decisions to be taken by the regulator or at least to ensure that the costs are net zero. We are not amending the powers available to the competent authority; this change is intended to make it clear that recovering costs is discretionary for the regulator. Currently, the competent authority is required to attempt to recover the costs of any and all enforcement actions undertaken. This relates to expenses incurred and there will be a de minimis where the activities exceed the monies recovered. We want to make sure that we are protecting businesses, not imposing costs on them. Giving that discretion to authorities is important.

The noble Baroness asked about making sure that the competent authority has the skills. Any references to other regulations related to training for competent authority staff, other veterinary legislation and animal welfare inspections for animals destined for slaughter have been deleted. They have been replaced by references to current legislation, which maintain the standards already in place. The training requirements for competent authority and veterinary staff are now set out in the retained versions of the official controls regulations. I hope that this gives the noble Baroness comfort that the new standards are at least equivalent, if not better.

On her point about the Government’s deregulatory drive, this is a key area in which we want to retain high standards. We want this country to continue to have the highest animal welfare and environmental standards, which is why it is important that we take this forward. I do not see that changing in this Government and I think that there is cross-party support for Britain remaining a beacon for animal welfare standards, constantly raising the bar and improving what we are trying to achieve. The Government’s animal health and welfare pathway is an example of that and has been broadly welcomed by the farming industry. It is just part of this picture.

We are proud of our world-leading standards on animal welfare. As I have outlined, these amendments will ensure that existing regimes for animal welfare during transport continue to operate effectively.

Food Security

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 13th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The most beneficial way to encourage people into farming at all levels is through a system of let land and tenure. It is very often those corporations and those individuals that the noble Baroness mentions that provide the only entry for people who do not have access to capital to purchase a farm. We want as broad activity as possible in agricultural production, and that means encouraging new and younger people to enter farming through the tenancy system.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, in response to the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, on a similar issue last Wednesday, the Minister said:

“we are taking action to make sure that private sector investment in our natural environment is done properly, with the proper social underpinning.”—[Official Report, 8/6/22; col. 1151.]

Can he explain how this “social underpinning” is going to work? Will local people have the right to veto a large-scale private sector land grab, an example of which we have already been hearing about?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Under the Forestry Commission’s rules, there is a local consultation process that proposed tree planters are required to go through. Also, the woodland carbon code is very clear, as is the UK peatland code. We also want to make sure that corporations that are investing in this kind of mitigation are publicly accessible through the UK Land Carbon Registry, so anybody can see what is being done in their neighbourhood. We want to make sure that, with these so-called environmental, social and governance measures, the middle word is used and is fundamental—w want to make sure that these schemes are socially acceptable, as well as environmentally acceptable.

Farmers

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 8th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, tenant farmers can access the sustainable farming incentive, which is the entry-level scheme. Where there are difficulties between landlord and tenant, we are seeking to iron them out with the committee headed by my noble friend Lady Rock, which has representatives of the Tenant Farmers Association, the CLA and others, to make sure that tenant farmers will be a fundamental part of future British agriculture. It is the only way for many people to get into farming, and we want to see it thrive.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, currently farmers are losing basic payments at a faster rate than they can claim under the new sustainable farming incentive. As a result, many of them are suffering financial hardship. When is Defra going to increase the range of environmental standards under ELMS that can be claimed so that farmers can get their finances back on an even keel?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We have announced a number of the areas of the sustainable farming incentive, the soil standard and many others. We are going to make further announcements in the next few weeks on other aspects of the environmental land management schemes. We recognise that farmers have to face price spikes—for example, in the areas of fertiliser production—and we have brought forward their area payments by six months, which will give them the cash they need to purchase the inputs they need to make sure that the next season’s growing crop is in the ground.

Zoonoses Research Centre

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 24th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is absolutely right to raise this issue. It was a feature at COP, where we managed to talk about more than just carbon and climate change; we also talked about the impact on nature, and on us, of a depleted environment. As the right reverend Prelate knows, we cannot address that within these borders; we have to continue to lead on it internationally, and the COP in Kunming at the end of this year is absolutely vital in taking forward the issues he raises.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, taking animals from the wild for their meat or for other products is a known major source of genetic diseases such as Ebola and HIV. With that in mind, why are the Government not prepared to ban in the kept animals Bill the keeping of primates as private pets in the UK? Surely that would significantly improve these protections.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right to point out the impact of kept animals in passing on zoonotic disease. Trying to make our borders secure is absolutely vital, and I will get back to her about this issue because the Government still intend to include measures to prevent people keeping the wrong kind of pets in this country. It is wrong for the pets because our climate is not right for them, and we must also consider their welfare conditions.

Import of Animals and Animal Products and Approved Countries (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction and for the helpful briefing he organised beforehand. I begin by very much echoing the concerns raised by the noble Lord, Lord Trees, about the Government once again delaying checks on food imports from the EU, and the biosecurity and consumer protection implications of all that. I also very much welcome the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on TRACES; we have discussed the issue many times and were always assured that there would be alternatives for TRACES in place, so it would be useful to hear from the Minister whether that is now the case or not.

I thank the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for drawing these proposals to the attention of the Committee and their implications for the loss of parliamentary oversight. The Explanatory Memorandum has set out the changes made by previous EU exit SIs and provides an explanation as to why these provisions are not considered sufficient to deal with urgent cases. We are acutely aware of the ongoing and changing threats to our animal and plant biosecurity, as well as to human health, and the need to have robust measures in place to act swiftly when new threats arise, as the noble Lord, Lord Trees, said. As such, we are sympathetic to the case being made and do not intend to vote against these regulations.

However, the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has quite rightly pointed out that, once again, we face the loss of parliamentary oversight on the imposition of these urgent measures. It specifically proposes that the Minister be asked to give an assurance that the regulations will be used only on the rarest of occasions, so I ask on its behalf: can the Minister give an assurance that the powers will be used only on the rarest of occasions?

Following on from this, I have some detailed points which I would like the Minister to answer. First, if our response times because of parliamentary delays have led us to be vulnerable to biosecurity and food safety risks, why has it taken Defra until May 2022 to address this concern? What has been happening in the meantime? Have we left traders and consumers exposed to extra risk because of our inaction? I would be grateful if the Minister could explain why nothing has been done before now.

Secondly, in correspondence with the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee about the capacity of the animal disease policy group, Defra responded:

“The expertise, capacity and processes required to exercise the powers in this instrument appropriately are well established within government, and have already been used to effectively control a range of SPS … risks since January 2021.”


If we already have the means to control these risks effectively, does that not rather undermine the need to give the Executive these extra powers? Could the Minister give some examples of the effectiveness of the current control regime to provide some context to this debate? What are the effective control measures? Where were they lacking? Why do we need to give Ministers extra powers? Friends of the Earth has also written in, asking about the independence of the bodies making these decisions. It would be helpful if the Minister could shed some further light on the independence of the bodies carrying out these risk assessments and making recommendations to Ministers.

Thirdly, the correspondence from Defra makes it clear that the new powers will be used to impose import restrictions not just where there was a new biosecurity risk but also to lift existing import restrictions if, for example, a country had successfully controlled an animal disease outbreak. This point was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. Can the Minister explain why existing parliamentary oversight cannot be maintained for the lifting of import restrictions? This does not seem to be as urgent as when a new biosecurity threat emerges—where action may be needed in days or, at most, weeks. There would very much seem a role for Parliament in overseeing the lifting of import restrictions and in making sure that the country of import had taken all the necessary action.

Finally, paragraph 7.5 of the Explanatory Memorandum outlines some of the risks of delayed action. It talks about the threat of retaliatory action against exports from Great Britain. It also mentions the threat of intervention by the WTO. The Minister referred to this in his introduction. Can he expand on this concern? I am struggling to understand what these threats are. Can he give a scenario as to how serious this risk of WTO intervention is? From what he said about retaliatory action, are we developing a reputation for responding slowly to biosecurity risks? Is this a real concern about which we should be aware? I am just trying to understand what our competitor or trading nations feel our biosecurity level is and what the threat of retaliatory action is. It would be helpful if the Minister could shed some light on this. I look forward to his response.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for their interest in this issue and for their contributions. I will open by reiterating that the amendments in this instrument do not constitute a change in policy. The instrument seeks to establish a process through which we are able rapidly to implement country-specific import controls where significant risks to animal and public health have been identified from non-EU trading partners which are approved to import live animals and animal products into Great Britain, ensuring a consistency of approach across EU, EFTA and non-EU trading partners. The instrument cannot be used to approve or delist countries and commodities, nor to lower import standards in any way.

Furthermore, while I appreciate that the shift to an administrative procedure raises sensitive issues about parliamentary oversight, I have outlined why I believe that it succeeds in striking a balance between the requirement for appropriate scrutiny and the need for effective biosecurity and safety controls. It is also worth noting that noble Lords and Members of Parliament in the other place will, of course, continue to be able to hold me, other Defra Ministers and the department to account, through all the usual means, for the ways in which the powers in this instrument have been exercised.

Let me just for a second address some of the points on an apparent loss of parliamentary scrutiny. Of course, when we were in the EU, these matters were decided by tertiary legislation, so they were effectively agreed with people such as national Governments’ Chief Veterinary Officers and other officials, then at an official level within the Commission it was decided, and none of us within the two Houses would really have much say after that, unless something went badly wrong. What has happened since is that it has become a secondary legislation matter.

Noble Lords are right to ask why, and why now. I can give a scenario, which was touched on by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. When we wanted to relist Ukraine last year, when an avian influenza outbreak had diminished, it took two months to get it through the necessary processes here. That is an impairment to free trade—and that addresses some of the points of concern to international organisations. It is right to say that what we are seeking here is more ability for executive action. There are still a lot of ways, within and without the statutory instrument, to hold Ministers to account for the decisions that the department takes. But we are a long way more responsive to noble Lords than we were able to be in the European Parliament.

Let me just address people’s concerns about border controls. This instrument cannot be used to remove border controls for any country, either in the EU or outside it. So it is really important that we are confident that we have the capacity and capability to undertake assurance functions previously carried out at EU level. The department has put the resources in place and drawn on additional expertise in its agencies and across government, in particular the Food Standards Agency.

I shall endeavour to answer other points that have been raised. The noble Lord, Lord Trees, wanted clear assurances that, if the Secretary of State is given the power to lift import restrictions via an administrative procedure, it will be done in a way that does not endanger biosecurity and food safety. That is an entirely valid point to make. Defra will not lift restrictions on imports of animals and animal products unless it is confident that it is safe to do so. We are committed not only to maintaining our high import standards but to continually improve on the processes in place to protect UK biosecurity and food safety. The UK Chief Veterinary Officer leads this work, following the repatriation of functions from the EU agency, DG SANTE F, in January 2021. To deliver this, Defra’s team of veterinary and technical experts oversee a detailed assessment and audit programme to ensure that any decision to change UK import authorisations are risk and science based. This includes: surveillance of emerging overseas disease and food safety risk; ongoing monitoring of trading partners’ regulatory regimes; and assessing non- compliance at GB border control posts. Where concerns are identified, we are able to undertake an emergency in-country inspection to verify that those imports are safe.

The noble Lord was entirely right to raise the impending risk of African swine fever. I chair a monthly biosecurity meeting, and I am brought up to date on a more regular basis on the progress across Europe of diseases like that, which are alarming. The noble Lord is right to say that it is running rife in some countries in their wild boar populations, and we are very careful about that. We recently exercised how we would cope with an outbreak of African swine fever. The whole purpose of what we do is, first, to prevent the disease coming here but, secondly, to be able to deal with it, contain it and ensure that it does not go through our domestic farm pig industry, which would be a very serious situation.

I hope I have also answered the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, made about, if you like, a fraudulent regime that might seek to suppress information. Of course, that happened, or could have happened, under the regime which we are asking the House to approve we move away from. It happened when we were in the EU and it can be prevented only by good intelligence and good security, by working with our posts abroad and by continuing to work with our EU neighbours, making sure that the professional contacts at Chief Veterinary Officer level and other biosecurity official levels are maintained.

Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (Amendment) Order 2022

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the views expressed on the order. I believe we all recognise the importance of respecting the outcome of the democratic ballots to end levies in the horticulture and potato sectors and the need for the AHDB to be more accountable to levy payers in future. I will try to respond as best I can to the questions that have been put on such an informed basis—I am grateful for them.

On the point made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Jones, I recognise the concerns at the loss of £14 million of annual levy funding for the future of horticulture research and about retaining skills and research capabilities in these sectors. However, I can assure the noble Baronesses that we are working proactively with representatives from across the horticulture and potato sectors to agree new industry-led funding models for research and crop protection activities that can meet the needs of this diverse sector more effectively than the statutory levy has done in the past. Discussions with industry on these options are ongoing, with the aim of agreeing new industry-led funding models over the coming months.

It is clear that the current one-size-fits-all levy was not meeting the diverse research and support needs of these two sectors. Therefore, it is more appropriate in future for subsectors or groups of growers to come together to formulate plans for the delivery and funding of priority research activities tailored to their specific business needs. This could be through a voluntary levy or a statutory subsector levy if industry supports that approach. As a next step, we will engage in discussions with industry-led groups and trade bodies to explore in more detail the design of industry-led funding options.

I understand the point that the noble Baroness made about five years between seeking the opinions of sectors as to whether they want to continue with the levy. However, a body with 471 employees and a turnover of many millions of pounds needs a period of stability to produce research, to do the work it does on innovation and then to take it forward with the sectors concerned so that they can then make an informed decision about whether this suits them. We considered the views very carefully but concluded that we do not currently have the details necessary to make legislative amendments to deliver a subsector levy. For example, there are detailed questions that need exploring, such as who would pay the levy, how it would be applied and calculated and whether there should be any exemptions. We are engaging in discussions with industry to explore industry-led funding options, including syndicate grower-led funding for specific research projects and the potential for a voluntary levy to fund a co-ordinated approach to crop protection activities. We also remain open to exploring new subsectors of statutory levies if there is widespread support for this from the businesses that would be eligible to pay for it.

A point was made about the consultation response saying that the public funding will not pay for research or other actions that were funded through levy investment. The inferred question was: does that mean that horticultural and potato research bodies or businesses cannot apply for funding from Defra’s future farming schemes? Research organisations and businesses in these sectors can continue to apply for existing future farming schemes in England, all of which have a policy focus, such as the farming innovation programme, for which they definitely are eligible. These schemes are subject to open competition, with applications judged on their merits. It is important that industry provides leadership in formulating new industry-led funding models that will enable cross-industry collaboration for the delivery of priority research development and other activities to support their businesses in future.

If I got her point right, I think the noble Baroness also asked what would happen if it cost the AHDB more than estimated to wind up its horticulture and potato operations and would another year of levy be charged. The AHDB has built a small contingency into the wind-up budget to cover any such eventuality, and it is tightly managing the wind-down process to ensure that it is completed within budget. We are clear that the statutory levies on the horticulture and potato sectors are ending from April 2022, and the AHDB will not seek any additional levy after 2021-22, even if additional costs or liabilities arise out of that wind-up process.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked about issues relating to Scotland and the devolved Administrations. I shall just give some background to this. The organisation employs around 470 staff. The noble Baroness made a very good point about governance, and it is governed by a main board, with several sector councils representing each of the levy-paying sectors. In response to industry feedback, the AHDB has been delivering organisational change to modernise its governance, reduce central costs and bureaucracy and increase levy payer engagement to deliver improved value for money to levy payers. That is very much part of the process that she asked about.

The AHDB embarked on a major change programme to ensure that it is an effective and efficient organisation, fit to meet evolving levy payer needs in future. However, before those changes were fully delivered, a number of dissatisfied levy payers in this sector, as I have already described, utilised the provisions in the order to trigger a ballot. As has been said, a ballot can be triggered if requests are received from at least 5% of levy payers in the sector over a rolling three-month period. The horticulture ballot closed on 10 February 2021; 69% of horticulture levy payers turned out to vote, as has been said, and 61% of those voted no to the levy continuing.

To respond to the outcome of the ballots and implement reforms resulting from the earlier request for views, the UK Government and devolved Administrations ran a public consultation between November 2021 and January 2022 to deliver an end to the horticulture and potato levies and improve the accountability of the AHDB to other levy-paying sectors in future. This SI now implements those changes. A joint UK Government and devolved Governments public consultation delivered that answer. Some 1,196 levy payers voted, which, as the noble Baroness said, is a fairly decisive number.

A question asked was why we were not implementing proposals to expand the scope of the AHDB to other agricultural sectors. Having considered the range of views on this proposal, and some of the difficulties between respondents from different countries, we have decided not to deliver this legislative change now. However, as a next step, we will take forward discussions between the UK and devolved Governments to explore in more detail the benefits and safeguards needed to provide a broader scope for the AHDB to work in practice, with a view to implementing the legislative change in future, subject to the outcome of these further discussions.

It was asked whether there will be any further Defra funding to help fill the gap left behind by the levy. It is not appropriate for public funding to replace levy-funded activity, but we are keen to work with industry leaders on their proposals for new models to fund collaborative research and development and other activities to support their businesses in future, whether through a voluntary levy, commercial arrangements or a new statutory levy where there is widespread support for that. However, research organisations and businesses in these sectors can continue to apply for existing future farming schemes, as I have already said, including the farm innovation programme and the farm investment fund, for which they are eligible. These schemes are subject to open competition.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked what will happen to the horticulture and potato research and knowledge generated from levy funds since 2008, and whether it will still be accessible. AHDB horticulture and potato work will be archived and made accessible online via the AHDB website to levy payers by the end of March 2022, to ensure that the industry can continue to benefit longer-term from its investment. She is entirely right to raise this, as all data and research must be available.

We live in a fast-moving time for agriculture. We need to introduce new innovation and measures to support different sectors, and I hope that this will provide a meaningful future for this very important organisation. I hope I have addressed the concerns raised by noble Lords and that they will approve this instrument for a reformed and accountable AHDB that will deliver value for money, supporting farmers for years to come—

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I do not want to make heavy weather of this, but it seems a bit odd to me that we are effectively cancelling—or running down via a transition—the research that has been taking place without a new model to replace it. The noble Lord has explained that discussions are going on, but in my limited experience an awful lot of agricultural research has to be ongoing—you cannot just stop it and expect to pick it up two years later. They may not be researching potato blight, but things such as that happen in field trials season by season, rather than stopping and starting again. We are where we are, and I do not suppose that anything will change, but it seems odd that we have stopped one scheme without having the follow-up replacement oven-ready to be there in future.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness will be a much greater expert than me on scientific research and support for agriculture, but she will also know that this is across a very wide spectrum of provision—all kinds of academic organisations, government-linked bodies and organisations funded through industry. We want all different sectors to be able to access the research they need to build on the very long datasets which have been built up over the years; 2008 to 2022 is a microscopic moment in time in terms of the development of understanding and knowledge about crops and animals and how to make them more productive and how to make our systems reflect the desire for good animal welfare and environmental standards.

I am sure the noble Baroness will continue to keep the Government’s feet to the fire on this. I will be very keen to share with her and others all the different avenues we are going down to make sure that there is adequate support for these sectors in future. I cannot be more specific than that, but we live in a broad-spectrum world of innovation and we must not be narrow in our approach but accept that the answers may exist in the minds of people yet to enter into academia and research —and also those abroad. We will take her point into account and I will keep noble Lords informed. If there are no more points, I beg to move.

Food Security: Climate Change and Biodiversity Loss

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We want the entire spectrum of British agriculture to benefit from the changes. We recognise that this is a difficult time for farming; it would be even if we were not going through the changes we are with commodity price spikes and the like. We are working closely with them and the food sector to make sure that we are supporting our British farmers and that they continue to produce food at the highest welfare and environmental standards now and in the future.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

Last year’s report from the Committee on Climate Change said:

“Defra still lacks a strategy to ensure the agricultural sector remains productive as the climate changes.”


It went on to say that the focus of the ELMS reforms was on flood risk rather than the broader climate impact. Does the Minister feel that those points have been fully addressed? If so, can he write to noble Lords and put a letter in the Library giving details of that? In particular, can he explain how the new strands of the ELMS programme are now addressing those broader climate change obligations?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I absolutely can commit to a letter that brings noble Lords up to date with our reforms. It is much more than just flood protection. It is about producing sustainable food. It is about soil systems. It is about making sure that farmers are incentivised to protect the environment and reverse the catastrophic decline in species. We are living through one of the riskiest times in terms of biodiversity loss. We want to reverse that but we are trying to do it in a way that supports farming systems. I am very happy to keep noble Lords informed of our progress.

Ukraine War: UK Food Security

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 26th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Supporting our friends through liberalising trade is an important way in which we can help a country such as Ukraine. It is just part of a wide range of support that we are giving over and above our defence support; we will continue to do so.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I echo the Minister’s tribute to Lord Plumb, who was respected all around the Chamber. However, does the Minister agree that it is shocking that around half a million people in the UK are now forced to use food banks because of soaring food prices? He talked about the Government putting money into this, but what are the Government actually doing to help hard-pressed families who have to make a choice between feeding themselves and heating their home? Where is the action on that? Families are facing this dilemma every day.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I do not have time to go through the long list of the many measures we are taking to support families at this time. For example, we are providing £35 million to support schools in disadvantaged areas to provide breakfast, and Healthy Start food vouchers are increasing from £3.10 to £4.25. The reasons why people have to access food banks are many and varied. The issue requires a cross-government approach, looking at all sectors of expenditure; we are working across government to do that.

National Farmers’ Union

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 2nd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We as a sovereign nation are negotiating trade deals with other countries. We recognise that some concerns have been expressed around the impact of new trade deals on our farming and food sectors. I reassure the House that our recent agreements with Australia and New Zealand, and, indeed, those with any future partner, will not compromise our high standards. All products imported into the UK will have to, as now, comply with our import requirements.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, already over 40,000 healthy pigs have been culled and the meat thrown away. A further 200,000 pigs are stranded on farms awaiting slaughter with no one available to slaughter them. Does the Minister agree with Minette that the disaster in the pig industry

“should have, and could have, been avoided”,

and that the situation with pig farmers truly is an utter disgrace?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The situation for pig farmers affected by this is serious. That is why we continue to work very closely with the industry. There was a perfect storm of a loss of exports to the Chinese market, disruption to CO₂ supplies and a temporary shortage of labour in the processing sector. We have been working hard on that with the private storage aid, the slaughter incentive payment and a package of measures to address these unique circumstances. On 10 February, my colleague Victoria Prentis chaired a pig summit and she is doing another one on 3 March. We are working really hard to resolve the problems in this sector.

Climate Change

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 1st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

New tree planting is absolutely fundamental to our new ELMS and environmental policies. We have very bold targets for tree planting. However, my noble friend is absolutely right: they need to be in the right place. There is incredibly powerful evidence to show that a tree’s ability to move water underground from the surface can enormously contribute to flood mitigation. It is very much part of our policy.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, over the last fortnight vast swathes of the UK were battered by three ferocious storms in seven days, leading to the heartbreak of many thousands of properties being flooded, some of them for a second or third time. We are told by the Met Office that these extreme weather events will continue and get worse. The Government recognise that flooding is a key risk in their response to the CCC report, but what urgent action is being taken to follow that up and to accelerate building the defences that we will need not only now but for the future to withstand those threats? Can he give an assurance that this action is being accelerated?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I can absolutely do that. We have doubled our investment in flood defences to a record £5.2 billion. with some 2,000 new defence schemes over the next six years. This programme will better protect 336,000 properties, including homes and non-residential properties such as schools, hospitals and transport links. But, as I just said to my noble friend Lady McIntosh, concrete and steel are not the sum total of this; it is also about planting trees and using nature to slow water. That is at the fundamental heart of our new agricultural policy.

National Food Strategy

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Thursday 24th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

It is this side. The national food strategy recognises that farmers need greater help to transition to more sustainable land use. Does the Minister understand the frustration of Minette Batters, who said at the NFU conference this week that rather than having a clear plan and vision for sustainable and productive farming, the Government are “repeatedly running” into short-term crises in the sector which they could have foreseen and pre-empted if there had been a proper food strategy backed up by the proper resources?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We are putting enormous resources into supporting farmers, incentivising them in a different but less prescriptive way than under the common agricultural policy. We are supporting an industry-wide attempt to ensure that we are eating better, healthier, more sustainable food. There will always be problems, but we have a remarkably resilient food supply system in this country which has ridden out some very difficult bumps in the road recently. We are not complacent. We are putting enormous resources, human and financial, into ensuring that we have a sustainable, long-term, well thought-through food system in this country.

Wet Wipes: Disposal

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Like every Member of this House, I was repulsed by the fatberg found under the streets of London a few months ago, which was largely created out of wet wipes. The Marine Conservation Society says that wet wipes were the third most common type of litter found on beaches in Great Britain in 2020 and that 93% of the material that causes sewer blockages comes from wet wipes, so there is an urgency in dealing with this issue. We really want to get rid of the plastic that exists within wet wipes and to make sure that parent groups’ fears are alleviated, but we also do not want to cause other environmental problems by replacing plastic with other materials that would then be damaging to the environment in how they were harvested. There are complications that we need to deal with, but I share the noble Duke’s concerns.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has just said that this matter is urgent but he has also asked us to be patient. We know that, in addition to what the noble Duke has said about blockages in sewers piling up on our riverbanks and foreshores, it is costing water companies about £100 million a year to clean up these blockages and the pollution, and those costs are being passed on to the consumer. It is not a question of being patient; this is a very particular issue. We know that there are sustainable non-plastic alternatives so I cannot understand why it is taking the Government quite so long to process this when there are alternatives and the issue needs urgent action now. Can he reassure us that there is urgency in the actions that he is taking?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I hope I can. This issue is an absolute priority for us and fits in very well with a string of measures that the Government have taken in recent years to tackle plastics and the pollution effects that they have caused. In some cases the plastics in wet wipes are polyester, in some cases they are viscous—that is, they bind the fabric together—and sometimes they are spun into it.

Concerns have been raised by health organisations that wish to continue to use wet wipes because they see them as fundamental to hygiene in hospitals and other places. I hope that this year we will find a solution that reflects the results of our call for evidence, that we will move forward and that everyone supporting the Bill in the other place and here, and everyone who shares my concerns about this pollution problem, will find a solution that we can all be happy with.

Pesticides: Thiamethoxam

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Thursday 20th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The Government have a pollinator strategy and work closely with the bee sector to make sure that our policies reflect the needs of pollinators right across the piece. The sustainable farming incentive, the key part of our ELMS announcement, has an integrated pest management part. These are the sorts of policy products that have come out of work that we are doing to enhance bee health across the country.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that this policy is making a mockery of the promise in the Environment Act to replace the use of toxic pesticides with integrated pest management techniques and low-toxicity solutions? How does the decision comply with the current need under law for pesticide products to have no unacceptable effects on the environment, when this clearly does?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I do not take that view, because we have massively increased the condition that we have applied this year. Last year, the derogation was not used because it did not reach of the already high 9%; we have raised that to 19% this year. There is a wider factor. If there is a catastrophic loss of yield, that sugar will have to come from other countries. Spain, France, Belgium and other EU countries have derogations with very few of the conditions that we have applied. We could damage our sugar infrastructure in this country—the factories that we need to produce sugar for our own population—and export the problem to countries that do not have our conditions and our determination to move towards integrated pest management.

Food and Farming: Supply Issues

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Thursday 20th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. The UK’s food industry sectors operate highly resilient supply chains, as demonstrated throughout the Covid-19 response. The Government have well-established ways of working with the industry on preparedness for, and in response to, issues with the potential to cause disruption to food supply chains. Our production-to-supply ratio remains high in comparison with historical levels: we produce 60% of all the food we need. These figures have changed little over the past 20 years.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. We are facing a serious supply chain crisis, with an estimated 500,000 labour shortages and rising costs. There is a shortage of seasonal workers to pick our fruit and veg and of lorry drivers to deliver them. There is a lack of produce on supermarket shelves and a rise in imports as a result. We are seeing a mass cull of pigs because we have no butchers, while the import of pork products from the EU is rising. Does the Minister accept that short-term fixes and three-month temporary visas will not solve the labour shortage? We need a long-term plan for this. Does he also accept that we should have a target of at least 60% food self-sufficiency in the UK, and that this should be underpinned by specific support to put British farmers and businesses first?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness is of course right that we should not be concerned just with short-term fixes. However, if she will forgive me, I think that she is a little out of date. We have agreed, through to 2024, to allow 30,000 people to come from outside the UK into this country under the seasonal workers scheme. In addition, we have people under the EU settled status. We are also trying to encourage more domestic employment and innovation through automation. All these things will ease the pressures that existed last year—and still exist, to an extent—but the situation is better. We are not complacent and it will continue to improve.

Sugar Beet: Neonicotinoids

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 15th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, in asking this Question, I declare an interest through my role in Rothamsted, as in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. An application for the emergency authorisation of Cruiser SB, which contains a neonicotinoid, has been received and is currently being considered against the strict, legal requirements for emergency authorisation. The Health and Safety Executive’s assessment, the advice of the expert committee on pesticides and the relevant evidence included in the application itself are all carefully considered as part of the decision-making process.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply but let us be clear what we are talking about: this pesticide is lethal to bees and other insects, and it leaches into the soil, causing long-term damage to wildlife. During our deliberations on the Environment Bill, the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith, pledged to work “harder and faster” to address the “dramatic decline in pollinators”, and confirmed that the scientific advice on the damage caused by neonicotinoids was “correct”. Does the Minister accept that any emergency authorisation would make a mockery of previous ministerial assurances? Does he also accept that the use of these toxic pesticides has no place in our sustainable farming plans for the future?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness will be pleased with the progress made that will make these sorts of debates unnecessary in future years. The development of new, resistant strains and the work that has been done, not least at Rothamsted, will mean that we will not have to have this debate in future. We are absolutely committed to protecting wildlife, particularly pollinators—we understand their value—and these decisions are taken in a balanced and careful way.

Future Farming Programme: Small Farms

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Thursday 9th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. We will reinvest money saved by reducing direct payments—initially applying smaller reductions for farmers with the smallest claim sizes—into improved environmental schemes and opportunities for all farmers to get their businesses ready for the transition. These opportunities include grants to invest in productivity measures, support for new entrants, farmer-led innovations and improving farm resilience and sustainability.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but he will know that farm incomes are already falling. By 2023, the smallest farms could be losing as much as 35% of the direct payments they received under the CAP. Of course, we all want the sustainable farming incentive to work, but the transition is relatively short and the Secretary of State’s latest letter still does not provide the detail that farmers need to plan ahead. I ask the Minister to confirm that the practical financial impacts of the new scheme are being regularly reviewed. Can he confirm whether contingency plans are in place to ensure continued farm viability, particularly for smaller family farms?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for allowing me the opportunity to say: yes, precisely. We monitor farm incomes carefully and have data going back many years. The current area payments under the basic payment scheme are no friend of the smaller farmer: the largest 10% of farms in the country receive 50% of the money. We are trying to create a fairer system, and not only so that smaller farmers receive a fair amount. Many farmers who do not receive any—for example, 40% of sheep farmers—will have access to these funds.

Eggs (England) Regulations 2021

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 23rd November 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to this SI, and for the helpful briefing that he organised with officials beforehand. However, he will know that the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has drawn this SI to our attention. Like other noble Lords, partly arising from that, I have a number of questions.

Obviously, our main concern is to maintain our high animal welfare and food quality standards. Clearly, we can maintain those standards more easily if the eggs are produced within the UK. I am absolutely with the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, on that issue. Can the Minister remind us what percentage of class A eggs are currently being imported from the EU into the UK? We have heard some statistics today, but it would be helpful to have clarification from the Minister on that. Is it the case, as my noble friend Lord Rooker is saying, that third-country eggs are also coming to us via the EU? Is that standard practice? I think we should know more about this. Given that many of these procedures in the SI are about potential third-country egg producers coming direct to us in future, it would be helpful if the Minister could say whether he is aware that there are, in the sidelines, third-country producers awaiting some sort of green light to be able to sell into the UK market, and what the consequences might be.

That is just a general point. I now want to ask some specific questions—and the first question is about arrangements on the Northern Ireland border. In response to the question from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee on this issue, Defra said that all eggs from Northern Ireland to GB would continue to have “unfettered access” to the UK market. Does that mean that there are no checks carried out on these eggs at all either at the border or at the so-called points of destination, or anywhere else?

Meanwhile, as I understand it, class A eggs going the other way—from GB to Northern Ireland—will continue to be checked at the border, as GB will have the status of a third country with regard to Northern Ireland. Those are the issues that my noble friend Lady Ritchie raised, and I agree with her: we need to know more detail on the practical application of how the rules will apply going in both directions. It would be helpful if the Minister could clarify those arrangements under the terms of the protocol. Also, can he clarify how the outcome of the current negotiations on the Northern Ireland protocol between the noble Lord, Lord Frost, and the EU might impact on the regulation of imports to and from Northern Ireland in future? Will eggs be caught up with this, and is this an issue on its agenda for change?

Secondly, like other noble Lords, we share the concern expressed by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee that the majority of respondents to the original Defra consultation were against the proposals in this SI. The Defra letter explains that a subsequent round table was held on 24 September. Stakeholders expressed concerns about whether imported eggs would be subject to the same standard of checks as domestic eggs and produced to the same high health, welfare and food standards. Rightly, my noble friend Lord Rooker raised issues about egg fraud, and he gave some shocking examples of it this afternoon. Clearly, we need to ensure that our consumers are not being mis-sold—and that is a concern that the stakeholders expressed at the meeting on 24 September.

What do the current checks on UK eggs entail? I do not quite see how we can differentiate between the sanitary provisions that the Minister was talking about and how they are marketed. I would have thought that the marketing is about the sanitary provisions, so the two should go hand in hand. Does the Animal and Plant Health Agency regularly and randomly visit UK poultry farms to check on animal welfare issues and on whether the birds are, for example, being reared organically? Does the same provision for checks on animal welfare et cetera also apply to imported eggs? Otherwise, how can we be sure that food standard equivalence is being applied?

The Defra response to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee referred to the APHA carrying out random checks on domestic and imported eggs at warehouses, distribution centres and packing centres, but this does not seem to include visits to where the birds are being reared, so how can we be assured that the high animal welfare standards included in the marketing of imported eggs can be trusted? This was an issue raised by a number of noble Lords. Obviously, this matters because descriptions such as “free range” or “organic” carry a premium price, so the temptation for some degree of fraud is obvious for all to see.

Once we have finished the 21-month transition period with the EU, what arrangements will be in place to check welfare standards on site for both EU and third-country egg producers? Will we go to see where the chickens are being reared and the eggs are being produced?

Thirdly, are all UK eggs currently produced distributed via warehouses and packing centres or do some go straight to market? This was the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. I can imagine that there is a healthy trade in local eggs at farm shops and farmers’ markets or potentially in the restaurant sector, so how is the APHA monitoring the quality of eggs that do not go via those distribution centres? What would stop egg importers avoiding packing and distribution centres and therefore avoiding the checks? Could they also go straight to market or to some locality without going through the distribution centres?

Then there is the question of what happens at the ports. This issue was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh. Presumably the APHA is already doing other checks at ports and custom points on foodstuffs being imported; it is already there with the resources, so it would not be too much of a stretch to check egg imports as well, particularly as we have heard that the phytosanitary checks will still carry on at the ports. Therefore you could argue that it would be more efficient to inspect all those consignments together, so I wonder why we are not still planning on doing that.

Finally, I am trying to get to the root of this issue. Is it an issue about overall APHA staffing levels? Is this ultimately the issue? Is it about staff shortages? What level of vacancies is being carried by the APHA? What proportion of APHA staff were previously EU staff who have left and cannot be replaced? Is this an issue at the heart of the matter?

The most important aspect of this debate is the need to maintain our high animal welfare and food safety standards. I absolutely share the concern of stakeholders and noble Lords this afternoon that these proposals do not provide sufficient reassurance that we will be maintaining those same high standards. I hope the Minister will be able to provide further reassurance on this issue, and I look forward to his response.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I will endeavour to answer all the questions that have been asked.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh referred to the sentence in the Explanatory Memorandum that relates to whether we used the European Union (Withdrawal) Act powers for this statutory instrument. I can confirm that we did not. I think she and others also asked why, given that the egg sector opposes the proposal—or so it was deemed from five out of the six responses—the Government are moving ahead with it.

In response to the consultation, Defra and the Welsh and Scottish Governments held a round table, as has been said, on 24 September to address the concerns raised by the industry. Invited to the meeting were the checking authorities responsible for egg marketing standards checks across Great Britain—the APHA egg marketing inspectors, who operate in England and Wales, and the Scottish Government poultry officers. In response to concerns expressed by the industry that imported eggs should be subject to the same standard of checks as domestic eggs and produced to the same high health, welfare and food standards, Defra explained that the checks will continue to be made on a risk basis, as well as randomly, in line with Article 24.2 of Regulation 589/2008, and that food quality will not be impacted by this SI.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh also asked about the nature of the survey, noting that it was online. All relevant industry representatives responded and were at the round table, so it is fair to say that a pretty full consultation has happened. She asked about UK exports to the EU. I can confirm that UK exports are checked at the border for both hygiene and marketing quality.

A number of noble Lords asked about resources at the APHA. This statutory instrument changes the current legislation, requiring marketing standards checks to take place at the border to allow the continuation of a current practice. We have the resources to do this now. I am quite open that, if we were not to pass this and require those checks to take place at the border, it would put considerable resource demands on the APHA. It would require a border control post to have a very large chilled space, so that every lorry that came in with its 28 pallets of eggs could be safely unpacked and those eggs moved into a chiller space. If they were not, they would risk deteriorating in quality, so that would have to take place. They would then have to be reloaded and taken to a distribution point where we had the resources to check them. I hope noble Lords remember this important point.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, raised a very well-made point about the implications of this SI for Northern Ireland eggs entering the UK and whether they will be treated differently, with Northern Ireland continuing to follow EU rules. Eggs produced in Northern Ireland are not considered to be entering GB from a third country. The statutory instrument does not change the way eggs moved from GB to Northern Ireland will be checked. Northern Ireland eggs will continue to have unfettered access to the GB market, as at present, and will continue to be checked in the same way as domestic eggs from England, Scotland and Wales. In any case, the checks on third-country eggs are identical to those performed on domestic eggs. They will continue to be checked by egg marketing inspectors on a risk-assessed and random basis at the point of destination, at packing centres, at distribution centres and at wholesale premises.

I think she asked whether eggs from GB can be put on the market in Northern Ireland. Class A eggs imported into Northern Ireland from third countries will continue to be checked at the time of customs clearance and prior to their release for free circulation, in accordance with Article 24.3 of Regulation 589/2008, as it has effect in the EU. I think I have said whether eggs have to be checked before they can be put on the market in GB.

Trees: Ips typographus

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Monday 1st November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We constantly ask ourselves whether we are getting this right. As things stand, the pheromone traps are very effective in identifying the range and quantity of beetles as they move around the country, but we have this matter constantly under review.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister say what impact the restrictions put on the movement of spruce trees around the south-east of England as a result of the discovery of this pest are likely to have on the availability of spruce Christmas trees this year? Does this mean that another traditional feature of Christmas is likely to be hit by shortages?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

In a word: no. The beetle does not affect trees under three metres. Some Christmas trees are higher than three metres, so I qualify what I say, but it is not expected to have any effect on Christmas or Christmas trees.

Organics (Equivalence and Control Bodies Listing) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for introducing this SI and for the helpful briefing that he organised beforehand. On the face of it, this seems to be an innocuous change, but, like other noble Lords, I do not feel that it is quite as straightforward as it first appears. I therefore have a number of questions that I want to raise.

First, we have a strong and blossoming organic sector in the UK and it is important that we protect the very high standards that consumers expect of organic products. In particular, it is vital that the UK organics market cannot be undercut by inferior products from third countries claiming to be of the same organic standards. When this was debated in the Commons, the Minister, Victoria Prentis, made it clear that organic trade between the UK and any third country in the future will be the subject of the provision of free trade agreements or treaties.

This immediately rang alarm bells because, as we have seen with other trade deals, most notably the one with Australia, the Government have been prepared to sell out our high food standards when it suits them to have a wider trade deal. Can the Minister clarify the status of our current organic standards? If, as he says, they are set out in retained EU legislation, could they be disregarded in a future trade deal?

Victoria Prentis also said that Parliament would have oversight of those trade deals that might impact organics. Can the Minister clarify whether this is the same oversight that exists for all other trade deals, on which Parliament has in truth had no real say and, as we all know, the views of the Trade and Agriculture Commission, which was set up to act as a mediator, if you like, are widely disregarded? Would organics be caught up in that same process?

Secondly, one of the main arguments put forward in the Explanatory Memorandum for the change is that ports, local authorities and businesses will be able to find an up-to-date list of the organic products that can be imported, as they will be listed on the government website rather than in legislation. I do not find this a compelling argument. I do not really see why this cannot be done in parallel with the original scrutiny process of making changes via SIs. For example, the Minister, Victoria Prentis, said that there were 13 countries, plus the EU, and about 55 control bodies currently listed. Despite what the EM says, I cannot imagine that there will be a swamp of new applications which will become unmanageable. If the concern is that those organisations change their addresses frequently, surely the solution would be to deal with this aspect of approval administratively rather than through the whole recognition of a new country or control body. I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify why it is not possible to have those two systems working in parallel with the original parliamentary scrutiny that we have previously enjoyed.

Thirdly, as noble Lords have said, the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has drawn these regulations to the special attention of the House on the grounds that they are politically or legally important. We agree with its analysis

“that secondary legislation is indeed an appropriate vehicle for the type of changes that are the subject of this instrument, and that the Secretary of State’s general accountability to Parliament is not a suitable replacement for parliamentary oversight of individual decisions in this area.”

As my colleague Daniel Zeichner said in the Commons in agreeing with the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee,

“We have all heard that argument and we know how well that works in practice. Frankly, we need something better than that.”—[Official Report, Commons, Delegated Legislation Committee, 21/9/21; col. 5.]


To press the Minister on this, if the SI goes through, how would we in practice hold the Secretary of State to account for listing an organic producer that we thought was in danger of undercutting our current organic standards? If a trade deal were signed that opened up the market for a third country for organics with lower standards, which of the many Secretaries of State would we be trying to hold to account anyway? Would it be the Secretary of State from Defra or from the Department for International Trade? Whom will we chase on these issues if such an event occurs?

Finally, I ask the Minister about the devolution implications of this SI. In an exchange in the Commons with David Doogan of the SNP, the Minister revealed that there is a long-standing disagreement about whether this issue is a devolved matter. Rather than getting legislative approval from the devolved Governments, as would be the normal process, the Government on this occasion sought the approval of the organics four nations working group. Does the Minister feel that this is a satisfactory way to proceed? What is being done to get the devolution disagreements back on track so that we can have the proper process of agreement in place?

While I am on that, there is some question over whether the UK organic certifiers have agreed to the proposals, as suggested in the Explanatory Memorandum. As my colleague Daniel Zeichner reported, they reported to him that their preferred form of scrutiny of future applications is an independent expert group, rather than their having to rely purely on the Secretary of State to make those decisions.

We feel that this SI is unsatisfactory in a number of regards and hope that the Minister will be prepared to reflect further, not only on our concerns but on those of the SLSC, which we feel were well made. I look forward to his response.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful for noble Lords’ interest in this issue and for the questions that have been asked. To start with, I say to my noble friend that this is of course a massive increase in scrutiny. When we were a member of the EU, this did not ever come before Parliament; it did not even come before the European Parliament but was dealt with by a committee in the Commission. Everything we are doing is open to all Members of both Houses to scrutinise in the ways in which they ingeniously will, holding Ministers and the Executive to account. There are mechanisms in it, which I will come to in a moment.

I will answer as many of the questions as I can. If I cannot, I will write to noble Lords. My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about the frequency of meetings of the four nations working group. My understanding is that it meets every month, so this is a very regular affair. I will come on to the points my noble friend made about the slight tension between the devolved Governments.

I think my noble friend Lady McIntosh also asked whether SIs are appropriate, whether they are a frequently used vehicle for minor changes in other policy areas, and why they should not be used here if they are used for many minor matters. The changes to lists that would be covered under this updated process would be administrative changes based on technical evaluations; they do not represent a policy change. These include very minor changes to information required about control bodies, such as their name, legal address and other contact details. Although minor, these details are necessary for port health authorities, local authorities and other relevant parties to ensure that the goods in question have been certified in a recognised third country or by a recognised third-country body.

We are aware of a number of cases in which minor changes to a control body’s information have resulted in goods being delayed at a port due to discrepancies between the details on certification documents and in legislation. As such, delays in updating this information in the list could result in a disruption to trade. Without the move to online lists effected by this statutory instrument, any amendment, however small, would be delayed by the time taken for a further SI to go through the legislative process. The faster mechanism introduced by this SI will enable the UK businesses that depend on this to take advantage of new opportunities to trade more quickly. This may provide a competitive advantage over other nations, such as those in the European Union burdened by cumbersome and lengthy processes.

My noble friend and others mentioned that we have legal agreements with 13 countries and 55 control bodies and asked whether updating their lists would be necessary. Yes, we have equivalence agreements with 13 countries, the EU and the EEA states, and 55 control bodies. However, the situation is much more complex in practice because third-country control bodies can certify businesses operating in a number of different countries, with different rules for their operations in each.

Equally, where a third country is recognised as equivalent, the control bodies in that country must also be listed individually. A full list of recognised countries and third-country control bodies runs to over 100 pages, with each page containing significant detail. As we continue to recognise new third countries and third-country control bodies as an independent trading nation, this is likely to expand over time.

Culling of Pigs

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Thursday 14th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to prevent the culling of pigs resulting from the shortage of workers in meat processing plants.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are working closely with the pig sector in response to the backlog of pigs, to both minimise on-farm culling and tackle the shortage of butchers in the processing sector. We are working with processors to increase processing throughput and the recruitment of domestic workers. We continue to engage in discussions with retailers and the food service sector and are working with the AHDB to reactivate the Chinese market and to identify other export markets.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister, but I wonder whether he has read the editorial in Pig World that landed on my desk this morning. It says:

“The pig industry is deep in crisis and the government doesn’t care. So we are on our own, although given the arrogance and incompetence of this administration, led by a complete fool who has no right to be anywhere near that office, or indeed any office for that matter, that is probably not a bad thing.”


The fact is that 150,000 pigs are unable to be slaughtered for consumption, and already farmers have had to cull and destroy more than 6,000 healthy pigs. So, talking is great, but when will the Government provide those temporary visas and the lower language requirements for skilled butchers which lie at the root of this crisis?

Agri-environment Schemes: Permissive Access

Debate between Baroness Jones of Whitchurch and Lord Benyon

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I will look into the latter point that my noble friend makes, but I can confirm that, at present, 2026 is the cut-off date for recording historical footpaths. There is provision under the legislation to extend that by five years, but I think most people want to get on with this and get it recorded. That will provide clarity for the farmer and land manager, and an opportunity for walking groups as well.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister to the Dispatch Box. In a recent Written Answer, the noble Lord, Lord Gardiner, was able to give details of only six tests and trials for the new payment scheme which were focused on public access, and some of them were only incidental to other projects. Is the Minister confident that these trials will give enough data to shape access policy for the future? How can we be assured that the resulting funding regime will indeed deliver the much-needed increase in public access that everybody wants?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

In addition to the six schemes which I suspect are the ones the noble Baroness heard about from my predecessor, my noble friend Lord Gardiner, we are also looking at around 1,000 farms, we hope, that will be coming into the sustainable farming initiative pilot that will start in October. There will be an access element to that as well. But I would draw attention to some of those six, which are very extensive indeed. They will offer groupings across landscapes, as I said, and will really inform how successful we can be in getting more people into the countryside.