EU–UK Partnership Council

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 16th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask the Minister of State at the Cabinet Office (Lord Frost) what is the agenda for the next meeting of the EU–UK Partnership Council, and when that meeting will take place.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord Frost) (Con)]

My Lords, we have not yet agreed a date for the next meeting of the Partnership Council. The trade and co-operation agreement requires the council to meet once a year, unless otherwise agreed by the co-chairs. This condition has been met with the Partnership Council’s meeting on 9 June to begin the process of implementing the TCA’s governance structures. All TCA specialised committees are now scheduled to meet before the end of this year.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

As someone who may be nominated to be on the PPA overseeing the Partnership Council, I hope it will meet a little more frequently and with a little more content. The TCA included a declaration on the UK’s participation in EU programmes such as Horizon; it was agreed in principle but there was no time to finalise it before the agreement was signed. The issue was to go to the appropriate specialised committee for action “at the earliest opportunity”. A year on, nothing has happened on Horizon. Can the Minister ensure, even if the Partnership Council is not meeting, that the other committees he mentioned meet and get on with this so that we can participate in Horizon, which is so important for all our researchers?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I very much agree with the thrust of the question of the noble Baroness. I think it is well known that we have wanted to get the Horizon arrangements up and running for some time; it is a matter of great disappointment that we have still not managed to do so. It is not 100% clear why, but that is the situation. However, the good news is that we have now agreed that there will be a meeting of the relevant specialised committee before the end of this year, provisionally on 21 December. I hope that might mark a change in the approach being taken and enable us to move this forward.

Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland: Effect of Renegotiation on Other Trade Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 21st October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask the Minister of State at the Cabinet Office (Lord Frost) what assessment Her Majesty’s Government have made of the diplomatic consequences for (1) current, and (2) future, trade negotiations, of their decision to seek to renegotiate the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord Frost) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are implementing a successful programme of trade negotiations around the world. Agreement in principle was announced with New Zealand overnight, and we have already reached agreement in principle with Australia. In both cases, these are hugely beneficial free trade agreements to both parties. We do not believe that our efforts to resolve the difficulties arising from the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland will have any diplomatic consequences for our FTA negotiations programme.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

That really sounds like wishful thinking. We have heard about New Zealand, and indeed I think the noble Lord was in his place at the time. We have applied to the CPTPP and we have the Australia deal. Can he really think that his willingness to tear up an agreement that he negotiated and the Prime Minister signed—in good faith, we assume—just two years ago will help the work of his fellow Ministers as they negotiate delicate deals with other countries around the world regarding the likelihood that we will hold to any agreement that we sign?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, no one is speaking of tearing up the Northern Ireland protocol. We have made very clear that our wish is to negotiate a new version of the protocol with a new balance, and to do so consensually. That is not unusual in international relations, and there are plenty of examples that one could give. On the FTA question, look at the facts: we negotiated 60-plus free trade agreements last year before withdrawal; we have a huge programme of negotiations going on; and I am sure that they will come to good and beneficial results.

Imports from EU to GB: Business Preparation

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I think our position on the protocol is well known, and we may come to it later. Of course, my noble friend is absolutely right to say that it makes sense for us to put in place the controls that are right for us. Of course, there are controls—customs controls came in on 1 January—but we do not have to replicate everything that the European Union does. We intend to have a world-class border by 2025, with proportionate checks based on risk. That is the right way to proceed.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, yesterday, my noble friend Lord Adonis shared with us a six year-old photograph of a very slimline David Frost saying that the whisky industry needed the “fewest possible barriers” in order to sell into European markets. That is what business still wants, but the Government do not seem to listen, despite the fact that surely they must be involved in the design of the procedures and not just told at the end, “This is what you must implement”. Next week, almost a year after the trade agreement was signed, the Minister’s consultation on engagement with business closes. Can he assure the House that he will respond rapidly to that and put in place a robust system of consultation with business, unions and consumers?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for that question. She is of course correct that our consultation on involving industry and civil society more generally in the implementation of the trade and co-operation agreement closes shortly. We will of course respond soon: we need to get these bodies up and running before the end of the year, and it is absolutely our intention to do so. As a general principle, it is right that the fewest possible controls are always best—that is clear. Of course, we are not always in control of the controls that the European Union puts in place. We believe that the benefits of being outside the customs union and in control of our own trade policy very much outweigh any disadvantages.

Trade Agreements

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 15th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Trade is obviously responsible for most of those negotiations. I am in 100% agreement with her that they offer huge opportunities for this country. The ability to trade freely with a larger number of countries around the world, while setting our own rules in a way that suits us and this economy, will be of huge benefit to us in years to come and we are all looking forward to that.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

The Minister has admitted that the extra barriers caused by the protocol have had a dampening effect on free trade, but he does not seem to accept that the extra barriers between us and the EU similarly have an effect on the freedom of trade and the amount we will export to the EU, which is still our nearest and biggest market. Indeed, exports of food and drink—our major export industry—fell by 47% and increased by a mere 0.3% outside the EU. We have to continue to trade with Europe. Will he set out how the Government propose to reverse the export fall to Europe?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is a little over-pessimistic about where things stand at the moment. The latest trade figures, which came out last week, show that our exports to the EU are now well above the average levels of last year and are almost at the levels of 2019 and 2018. Our business has done a great job in dealing with that. I have never sought to hide the fact that leaving a customs union creates new barriers. I am very happy to see that our businesses are dealing with them very successfully. They are different in nature from barriers within a country, and that is the difference between some of the effects that we are seeing with our exports to the rest of the European Union and the chilling effect on trade within the United Kingdom because of the way that boundaries currently operate.

UK and EU Relations

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 24th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, we are aware of that issue and in discussion with the European Union about it. It is of course consistent with taking back control ourselves that the other party to the treaty also takes back control. That is what the treaty is designed to regulate. We believe that the benefits of having control over our own rules and the opportunities that offers us globally will be best in the long run for this country.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

It was indeed five years ago today that we got the results of the referendum. For five years I have been at this Dispatch Box. I have done the talks, the Statements, the Bills and Questions to the Ministers: the noble Lord, Lord Bridges, the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, the noble Lord, Lord True, and now the noble Lord, Lord Frost. In taking my leave of this portfolio this week—and not before time—I am delighted that my noble friend Lady Chapman will hold the Minister’s feet to the fire in future. She is a welcome addition to our Benches. But before I depart, perhaps the Minister could explain to the House how the deal that he negotiated and advised the Prime Minister to sign has led to quite such a “bumpy ride”—his words—and whether he can persuade the Prime Minister to heed Monsieur Barnier’s advice to respect his signature on the withdrawal agreement.

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for our sadly brief but enjoyable co-operation. I look forward to standing here at the Dispatch Box and dealing with her successor. On her question, the difficulty is that we did something pretty exceptional as a country in the withdrawal agreement, which was to agree that goods could be controlled in a particular way as they moved within our own country. Self-evidently that can happen only if it is applied with a degree of delicacy, pragmatism and proportionality, which, unfortunately, we are not seeing. That is the core of the difficulty. If we can re-establish the balance, we shall be able to find a satisfactory way forward.

Civil Society Forum: UK Delegation

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 24th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I certainly agree that the civil society forum, when it is up and running, should seek to draw in as wide a range of expertise and ideas as it possibly can. I certainly agree that it is also important that the Government meet as wide a range of civil society organisations, broadly defined, as possible. I certainly meet business representations weekly from sector to sector. I have met a wide range of civil society representatives in Northern Ireland, and we continue to do so.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, we know that this was discussed at the beginning of the month in the Partnership Council. Indeed, I raised it at the previous Questions to the Minister on 27 May so, as my noble friend just described, it was very nice to get the letter last night. We have a habit of getting letters from Ministers late at night—one of the Minister’s colleagues does the same thing. I know that time might move a bit slowly for the Minister, but can he confirm two things? First, is there beginning to be a list, on paper, about who might sit on the forum? Secondly, does he agree that the domestic advisory group, which should feed into the forum, needs to be up and running before the forum so that that group—in other words, the British section of the forum—can begin meeting, thinking and preparing, so that when it meets its EU counterparts it is equipped to do the job that the forum will be set up to do?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, obviously, a prerequisite for moving this forward has been the first meeting of the Partnership Council to kick it off, which happened only two and half weeks ago, so we are in the early stages of identifying the possible UK representatives. It is for departments to do that, and departments are engaging very actively with the civil society groups they meet. Our intention is absolutely to establish a collective capacity on the UK side to begin the discussions with the European Union. We are at rather an early stage of that process.

UK–EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement: Meetings of Bodies

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, extradition arrangements were indeed the subject of quite a large part of the negotiations, and in our view—the Government’s view—the agreement that we reached with the EU deals with many of the defects that were present in the earlier European arrest warrant system. It is part of the standard way in which extradition arrangements work that member states can, in certain circumstances, refuse to extradite their own nationals, and some member states have made that clear. We continue to discuss this issue with the Commission and all the member states concerned.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, the multi-layered governance structure mentioned by the noble Earl is not the only thing that needs to be set up under the TCA. The civil society forum and the domestic advisory group are vital channels into Government, and the partnership council decisions. The UK cannot by itself set up the joint forum, but it can—and surely should—establish a domestic advisory group to feed into the forum. Can the Minister, who is responsible for getting this going, tell us the date when that will happen, and assure us that preparations go a little beyond what he referred to in his Written Answer to me this week—just to

“engage with business and civil society”?

I think it is time for action now.

UK-EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement: Regions and Industrial Sectors

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, one of the great benefits of ceasing to be a member of the European Union was that we could establish our own immigration system, and indeed we have done so, on the basis of the points-based system that has been extensively discussed and implemented. The advantage of that is that it gives us control of who we wish to let enter the country, either temporarily or permanently. Obviously, when we make that assessment we look at the industries, the economics and the broader situation. We will continue to do so when we make those judgments.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

The Minister and the Prime Minister seem to claim that they did not know quite what the protocol would imply and how tricky it would be to make it work. In front of our European committee last week, the Minister confessed that he was a bit surprised about how disruptive it was, and said it could remain

“a bit bumpy … for some months”.

Is it possible that, because the vigorous work was not done before that protocol was signed, he is surprised by the implications of it? Even now, it might be helpful if he publishes the legal advice that was available at the time.

My other question is this. Given that there are still very many decisions to be taken, both by the Government in implementing the agreement and together with the EU in the Partnership Council, can he undertake that there will be proper impact assessments before big decisions are made and that these will be published and discussed widely, so that he has the benefit of the wisdom of Charles Grant and others before big decisions are taken?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, on the Northern Ireland protocol, the issue is that the protocol is a very delicately balanced document designed to support a very delicately balanced agreement—that is, the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. When the protocol is implemented it needs to have regard to that balance and the set of provisions that try to protect this delicately balanced situation. At the moment, in our view, the protocol is not being implemented in a way that reflects that balance. It does not reflect the full dimensions of the Good Friday agreement, east-west and north-south, and that is at the root of the difficulty. That is not what we expected when we agreed it, but we still hope that we can get into that situation in discussions with the EU in the weeks and months to come.

On future impact assessments, when legislation is needed to implement reforms or changes, whether these result from the TCA or from anything else, there will of course be an impact assessment. That is the usual practice.

UK-EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement

Debate between Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town and Lord Frost

Thursday 29th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask the Minister of State at the Cabinet Office (Lord Frost) what progress Her Majesty’s Government have made towards making arrangements for the (1) scrutiny, and (2) implementation, of (a) the United Kingdom and European Union Trade and Cooperation Agreement, and (b) the Partnership Council.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord Frost) (Con)]

My Lords, I begin by welcoming the positive vote by the European Parliament yesterday to give its consent to the trade and co-operation agreement. This puts our relationship with the European Union on a fully firm footing for the future. We can now move on to making this new relationship work and Parliament will have an important role in that, of course. We are committed to facilitating parliamentary scrutiny of this new relationship, just as we do with other international agreements.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

May I give a rather belated welcome to the Minister? I have been otherwise preoccupied for a little bit. Given that the deal is now ratified, will he now start setting up the civil society forum that is also part of the scrutiny and implementation of the deal? Equally urgently, given that seafood and meat exporters to the EU face substantial new non-tariff barriers with red tape and border checks, will he ensure that reducing that drastic outcome from the deal is a high priority for the Partnership Council, of which he is co-chair?