Charities: National Fund

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will review the recent decision of the Attorney General to give over £400 million from a registered charity, the National Fund, to the Treasury.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, the charitable purpose of the National Fund is the reduction of the national debt. Therefore, using the fund to reduce the national debt must be the correct approach. It is not right to use money donated for a specified charitable purpose to support one or other different cause, however worthy those other causes may be.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, actually, this charity was set up to write off, not to reduce, the national debt—so can we just keep to the facts? The national debt is £1.84 trillion, which is 4,000 times the size of this charity. In fact, the national debt grows by the size of the charity every day. Instead of helping people with charitable purposes, the Attorney-General has simply given it to his friend, the Chancellor, with no consultation or debate in Parliament and no parliamentary approval. Just because it cannot write off the debt is no reason to use it in the way suggested. Given that we now have a new Attorney-General, would the Minister agree to ask him to reconsider that decision and make sure that charitable money is used for charitable purposes?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is not quite right. It is, indeed, the charitable purpose of this charity to pay off the national debt. The issue to which she refers is around the administrative provisions within clauses 2 and 3A of the 1928 deed, which specify that it can be paid off when that condition is reached—but the purpose remains the same. However, it is the case that, after much consideration, it is now the opinion of the trustees of the charity, the Charity Commission and, indeed, the investment managers, that to resolve the situation, we should seek the permission of the High Court to use this fund to pay down the national debt.