Surplus Carbon Emissions

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 27th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have overachieved on all their carbon budgets to date. As required under the Climate Change Act, the Government have consulted the Climate Change Committee and the devolved Administrations before taking any decision on carrying forward overperformance from carbon budget 3. The Government are considering the CCC’s and DAs’ responses and will make a decision, ahead of the statutory deadline, on 31 May.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register and thank the Minister for that reply. The advice of the Climate Change Committee on carryover was unequivocal: that surplus emissions must not be carried forward to loosen later carbon budgets, since most of the surpluses in the third carbon budget period were due to external factors. I seek assurance from the Minister that the Government will consider that unequivocal advice very carefully and make a stringent assessment of the effect of carrying forward surplus emissions from the third carbon budget on their pledge to cut emissions by 68% by 2030.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I can say no more than I said in my initial Answer. Of course, we will take into account the advice from the Climate Change Committee and the devolved Administrations. But this is a problem of success; we have overachieved on all our carbon budgets so far, and we should celebrate that. As I said, in terms of carryover, we will take a decision before 31 May.

Home Insulation: Health and Mortality Rates

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 19th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend asks a really good question. We have a number of innovative pilots with lenders, such as green mortgages and different ways of structuring finance that can help people to upgrade their homes. There are some potential tax changes —which, of course, are a matter for the Chancellor—that could help, but we will continue to make the case.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Minister referred to the amount of money being put into insulation schemes, but does he accept that over the last 10 years a rota of schemes has been introduced, and that they have failed and been closed down? Does he accept that the industry needs consistent, clear policy, so that it can invest in training in particular, so that the money the Government put in is actually value for money?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

No, I do not accept that. There has not been a rota of schemes. The most successful scheme, the ECO scheme, has been going since the early part of the previous decade and we have committed funding for a number of years to come. The more successful schemes, such as the social housing decarbonisation fund and others, are also multi-year programmes precisely to provide the long-term certainty to industry that so many contractors say they desire. We have already announced the funding for 2025-28—another £6 billion—and we have set out the schemes on which it will be spent. So, no, I am afraid I do not accept the noble Baroness’s analysis.

Heat Pumps

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 6th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right; it is lower than it needs to be, which is why we have plans to expand the installation rates up to the levels that I mentioned. We have a number of schemes to support that: the clean heat market mechanism, which I mentioned; the boiler upgrade scheme; and we increased the grants to £7,500. We support it under the social housing decarbonisation fund, and under the eco scheme as well. We have ambitious plans to expand the installation rate.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. If we are to improve the uptake of heat pumps, does the Minister agree that we need to improve the uptake of energy efficiency measures, so that the pumps are more effective in the homes they are installed in? At ping-pong on the then Social Housing (Regulation) Bill, his colleague the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Bybrook, promised that the Government would issue a consultation on heat efficiency standards in the social housing sector within six months of Royal Assent. That six months has now run out, but the consultation has not even started. I wonder if he knows when it is going to start?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There are a number of aspects to the noble Baroness’s question. With regard to the consultation, I do not want to speak for the noble Baroness, Lady Scott—I do not know if she is in the Chamber—but I believe it will be issued imminently. With regard to the first part of the question, I say that we need to expand energy efficiency, irrespective of whether your home is powered by a heat pump or by a gas boiler. Using less gas and less electricity are both a good thing.

Hydrogen Heating

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Monday 11th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not think my noble friend is correct about attitudes in Germany. The latest information I have is that 10 homes in Germany—no more than that—are subject to the trial. The issue of blending hydrogen into the gas network is of course a separate issue, and that too is something on which we will have more to say shortly.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Is the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, not completely right in one respect: that there is confusion about the transition—how it will be funded, how it will come about, how North Sea oil and gas will fit into that, when it will diminish, when it will completely finish being important in our energy mix? Is it not time we got below some of the very high-level aspirations of the Government and into the detail of what a transition plan will actually mean for the country?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely correct. We have set out in great detail what the transition plan looks like. As I said in my Answer, electrification—heat networks in particular—will play a very important role in the decarbonisation of heat.

Climate Change: Phasing Out Fossil Fuels

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness highlights an important matter. We consulted on this in the summer. We are currently doing the work to consider all the implications of carbon leakage measures, including CBAM, which we are looking at closely. We will have more to say on that very shortly.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. There was reference earlier to imminent decisions. Can I press the Minister on the question of the Energy Charter Treaty, which he answered last week? When will we know the Government’s decision on this? Will it be, as I hope, to withdraw from the treaty?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have certainly heard what the noble Baroness has to say on this. I cannot go any further than what I said last week. As soon as I have some further news, I will be sure to update her.

Climate Change: Aims for COP 28

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 28th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Obviously, the reports that we saw in the last few days were concerning, but of course we are not aware of what was discussed in private meetings. The UAE presidency was not appointed by us, but we support it in what it has said publicly in terms of advocating for an ambitious deal.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Government announced in September that they were renewing our membership of the Energy Charter Treaty. Does the Minister agree that the treaty, and our membership of it, does nothing to support the objectives of COP 28 that he has just outlined to the House? Will a decision be made before COP 28 meets to withdraw, as other countries have done, from this outdated and damaging treaty?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. As she mentioned, we are reviewing our membership. I do not know when a decision will be taken. I hesitate to use the word “imminently” after the last question, but I am sure that we will want to act as quickly as possible.

Electricity Network Connection Action Plan

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 22nd November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not sure I understand the point my noble friend is making. The reason we have a national grid is to distribute electricity around the country so that all communities get the chance to benefit. If you had a much more localised system of grids, it would be much more inefficient. The whole idea or principle of the national grid is that the whole country can benefit from all our renewables infrastructure.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests in this area and very much welcome the Minister’s original reply. Does he agree with me that, as well as the expansion of the grid and connections, we need to look at the demand side and at reducing demand and increasing energy efficiency? The Government promised several consultations on this issue in different sectors and on building standards. Is the Minister confident that the timescales promised for those consultations will be kept?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree with the noble Baroness that energy efficiency is really important. It is much cheaper than building new energy infrastructure. She will be aware that we are spending £6.5 billion on energy efficiency and clean power over this Parliament, and we have already managed to secure £6 billion from the Treasury for 2025-28. We need to take forward all these measures. There are a number of key consultations coming up that will make a big difference, not least that on the future homes standard.

Climate Financing

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course I can give that commitment to my noble friend.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Reform of the international financial order is going to be high on the agenda for COP 28. Do the Government support that reform and, in particular, the measures set out in the Bridgetown agenda?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The Government are interested in the conversations that are taking place on that. I cannot give the noble Baroness the commitment that she requires but I will come back to her in writing with the detail on that.

Climate Change Policies

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 20th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice, and in so doing declare my interest as chair of Peers for the Planet.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK is leading the world on climate change. We are committed to net zero by 2050 and the agreements that we have made internationally. The Prime Minister will make a statement on this issue later this afternoon.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, that really will not do. We have all read what the proposals are. I understand that it is very easy to see on WhatsApp the paper on this issue put to the Cabinet this morning at its emergency meeting. I also understand that the plan was not to have Parliament sitting at all and to make these major announcements on Friday. Instead, because they were leaked, we at least have some opportunity in this House to question the Minister, but I hope he will not hide behind waiting for 4.30 pm, when the Prime Minister will talk to the press and not to Parliament.

In New York today, the UN is underlining that no country has done enough to meet the challenges of climate change, so it is both ironic and depressing that the UK Government are proposing such a damaging retreat from our global leadership position. What is the Minister’s response to the horrified reception these proposals have received from business leaders, who see delaying the transition to net zero as the complete opposite of what they need—ambition, certainty and commitment?

Is it not deeply disingenuous to suggest that rolling back our climate commitments is in the interests of hard-pressed families, when slowing down ambition on home insulation, for example, will only be, as the CEO of E.ON UK put it,

“condemning people to many more years of living in cold and draughty homes that are expensive to heat, in cities clogged with dirty air from fossil fuels, missing out on the economic regeneration this ambition brings”?

Finally, can the Government explain why they are disregarding all the advice from the Treasury, the OBR and others that delays to the actions essential to achieve net zero by 2050—to which the Minister says they are still committed—will make the task more difficult, more chaotic and more expensive?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, there were a number of questions there. In essence, I think the noble Baroness is asking whether the Government are really committed to net zero. As I said in the original Answer, the answer is yes. More importantly, we have the track record to prove it. The UK has overachieved on all our carbon budgets to date; we have reduced emissions faster than any other major economy; we are home to the first, the second, the third and the fourth-largest offshore wind farms in the world; and renewable power reached a record share of 48% of total generation in the first quarter of 2023. All those matters have been achieved under a Conservative Government. It is our record and we are proud of it.

Offshore Wind

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have said that lessons will be learned. As I said, there is a healthy stream of projects wanting to come forward. Understandably, the developers want to be paid as much as possible. The unique thing about offshore wind is that it involves very high initial capital investment costs. Once the things are built, they are relatively cheap to operate, unlike some other sources of generation. It is all about providing long-term guarantees of revenue for those developers. There is always a process of negotiation; the CfD auction rounds have been successful in the past and I am sure that they will be in the future.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chair of Peers for the Planet. The Minister recognises that the offshore wind industry raised these issues some time before this round of contracts for difference. The Government did not listen and we have the results with offshore wind, as we have seen. At this time, the onshore wind industry is saying to the Government that the, frankly, puny changes in the planning regime that they announced will not bring forward the large-scale increase in onshore wind production in this country. Will the Government listen in time this time and put the planning regime for onshore wind on a level playing field with other renewable infrastructure?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I know that the noble Baroness is passionate about onshore wind. I hope the changes that we announced will produce more capacity. As I said, we have just let 24 projects under the latest CfD round. She is right that the industry said in advance of this round that it wanted to be paid more. Across all the different areas of government for which I have been responsible, I have never met a private developer who want to be paid less for what they do. Let us be realistic: this is a negotiation process. Of course, industry will say, “We need to be paid more; we need to be given larger contracts”. That is entirely understandable. We have to bear in mind our responsibility to the bill payer who ends up paying these costs. We of course want to see more renewable capacity laid out—it is intermittent but it is cheap. We need to produce a strike price that is fair to the developers, so that they get a return, but also to the bill payers.

2030 Emissions Reduction Target: Heating

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I would not characterise just rental properties in that way; whatever form of heating is used, better insulation and better performance of buildings is a good thing.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chair of Peers for the Planet. As the noble Lord, Lord Birt, made clear, the decarbonisation of home heating will require an even greater supply of clean electricity. I therefore welcome the Government’s announcement today that they will finally end the destructive and irrational effective ban on onshore wind development that we have lived with since 2015 by updating the National Planning Policy Framework. What scale of difference does the Minister think this will make to the amount of electricity generated by onshore wind? I am sure he will be aware that, last year, we managed two new onshore wind developments while Ukraine managed 19.

Decarbonisation

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Thursday 13th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I appreciate the desire of the Liberal Democrats to get us into the EU regulatory orbit as quickly as possible. As with many things, there are arguments for and against the linking of the two ETS systems. They are equivalent—in fact, ours is probably slightly more ambitious than that of the EU. We will continue to explore this policy with the Commission.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Does the Minister agree that, far from investment in and nurturing of green initiatives and technologies being detrimental to this country—as the noble Lord, Lord Hannan, said—investing in green technology for things such as steel and cement production not only helps those industries in this country but helps our economy and international competitiveness?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not want to put words into my noble friend’s mouth, but I do not think that he was attempting to argue that we should not invest in green products and services. He was merely pointing out the difficulties in international trade where, for some countries, there will be a temptation to use green excuses to introduce protectionist policies. Free trade has been an immense benefit to all of us in the developed and developing world, and we should be very careful to make sure that we maintain those benefits.

Drax Biomass Power Station

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Monday 3rd July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I have answered the Question properly. Ofgem is an independent regulator and takes these matters extremely seriously. I have spoken to the chief executive of Ofgem about it and I have spoken to officials who have investigated it, so I feel that I have discharged my duties on this one.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Minister was very dismissive to the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, on the issues around the national grid and the use of sustainable energy. We had long debates about this, and about community energy, in the Energy Bill. Does he not accept that there is a possibility, with some of the large onshore wind turbines we now have, that we could almost avoid grid connection and go to direct supply for developments that are important?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

That was not the question I was asked, but let me tackle the question from the noble Baroness. Of course, it is perfectly within anybody’s rights to set up a private wire supply and their own community generation if they wish, but I think the noble Baroness will find that the vast majority of those schemes also want to be connected to the national grid for cases where it does not work.

SMEs: Net-zero Targets

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 7th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. We want to make trade as simple and easy as possible. I will certainly take the point back to the trade department.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Minister talked about the importance of providing certainty for business and small and medium-sized enterprises. One of the barriers to those enterprises investing in skills training is uncertainty about programmes such as retrofitting and energy efficiency, which have been marred by stop- go policies in the past. Will the Minister look again at the Government’s opposition to the energy efficiency proposals in the Energy Bill?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am afraid that I do not agree with the noble Baroness. We have an extensive energy efficiency programme. We are spending £6.6 billion over this Parliament. I agree that long-term consistency and certainty are important, which is why the Treasury has guaranteed an additional £6 billion from 2025 for precisely these measures.

COP 28

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think I said that what negotiations go on between France and the EU are not our concern any more because we are not a member of the EU. Of course we work collaboratively with many countries across the world, not just in the EU. This is a worldwide problem and we need to negotiate on a worldwide basis, which of course we do. Carbon emissions do not respect international borders.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Since 2008 developing countries’ debt has doubled, and many of the countries most at risk from catastrophic climate change are actually paying more in debt repayment than they are able to spend on climate adaptation. At COP 28, will the UK be talking with international finance institutions about issues such as debt swap, which could address this problem?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point, although it is slightly off the topic of the COP 28 agenda. We are incredibly proud of the massive contribution of £11.6 billion that this Government are making towards international climate finance, helping those very countries. The wider issue of debt relief is also important and will be taken forward by international development colleagues.

Climate Change: Net Zero Strategy

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 3rd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Indeed, that will be a vital component. We need to train people for the new technologies. Many of them are already coming on stream. Of course, we work very closely with the Department for Education to expand our skills programme in the green jobs area, but we also have a number of directly funded schemes from the department which are funding tens of thousands of new training places.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. In order to achieve the ambitious programme the Minister has set out, Ofgem, the regulator, will need to play an important role. This House voted to give Ofgem a net-zero duty, in line with the recommendations of numerous bodies, most recently the BEIS Committee in another place. Will the Government rethink their opposition to this sensible, much-supported measure when the Bill goes to the other place?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course, we will continue to keep these matters under review. I am not going to predict what might happen to the Bill in the House of Commons, but we will certainly reflect on what the House voted for.

Powering Up Britain

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Minister presaged a question about onshore wind, which was one of the things left out of the Powering Up Britain document. He half-answered the question in anticipation, but he said that the consultation results will come “in due course”. Could I tempt him to be a little more specific than that, because we have been making progress very slowly on this issue? It feels rather like a can being kicked down the road and a wasted opportunity.

This document contains aspirations, intentions and objectives that are widely supported around the House. The concerns are about the pace, scale, impetus and coherence of delivery. I want to talk particularly about the issues that we debated in your Lordships’ House on Monday, when amendments to the Energy Bill were passed. None of those amendments in any way ran counter to the objectives set out by the Government. In ending emissions from coal, in making sure that we have a comprehensive energy efficiency policy, in building and encouraging community energy schemes, and in giving Ofgem, the regulator of this sector, a responsibility for implementing net zero, none of them was revolutionary or counter to government policy. All will help with this issue of scale, pace and delivery. My plea to the Minister is that he and colleagues think very carefully, after Third Reading in this House and before the Bill goes to another place, about whether those amendments could assist, rather than in any way impede, the Government in what they are trying to do.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I suspect the noble Baroness knows, I am afraid that I cannot give her a direct answer on the date of the consultation response. That is just the way that government works: the consultation response will come when it comes. Even if it were happening tomorrow, I would not be able to presage it, because it has to go into the Downing Street grid and through all those processes. I will endeavour to let her know as soon as it becomes available.

The amendments to the Energy Bill were of course disappointing. I noticed that there were no big majorities in favour of any of them, but we will look at them closely and respond in due course.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Report stage
Monday 17th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, this group covers the two amendments concerning the energy performance of existing premises and of new builds.

I will start with Amendment 97, from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and the noble Lords, Lord Foster and Lord Whitty, which would require the Secretary of State to publish a national warmer homes and businesses action plan six months after Royal Assent. That proposed plan looks very similar to and would duplicate the Government’s existing Net Zero Strategy and the Heat and Buildings Strategy—added to, of course, by the Powering Up Britain publications. Therefore, we feel that it is unnecessary.

On minimum energy-efficiency standards for domestic buildings, the Government agree with the ambition of reaching EPC band C by 2035 for as many homes as possible where that is cost effective, and for commercial properties below EPC band B where that is cost effective. On minimum energy-efficiency standards, these ambitions have already been published in various publications, including the Net Zero Growth Plan. The Government have already set out their timeline to deliver the future homes standard by 2025 and we have accelerated work on its full technical specification. We will consult further on that later this year. Regarding the proposal on heat networks, the Bill already outlines our heat network zoning proposals for England, which details where buildings should be connected to heat networks and gives local authorities the power to implement heat network zones.

On top of all those major commitments, as has been referenced in the debate, we recently launched the Energy Efficiency Taskforce, of which I have the honour to be co-chairman, to deliver our ambition to reduce the UK’s final energy consumption from buildings and industry by 15% by 2030. So there is no difference in ambition from the Government on energy efficiency. I agree with many of the points made on how important energy efficiency is, and we are progressing work to increase it across a whole range of sectors, as I have outlined.

In addition to all that, in the Statement on powering up Britain, which was made just before the Easter Recess and will be repeated here on Wednesday evening, we announced a further insulation scheme—the Great British insulation scheme—to deliver £1 billion in additional investment by March 2026 in energy-efficiency upgrades in some of the least efficient homes, including those in the so-called able-to-pay sector. Furthermore, we announced that we will extend the boiler upgrade scheme until 2028, supporting both domestic and small non-domestic buildings, building on the existing £450 million-worth of funding already committed between 2022 and 2025 to provide the signal that people have been asking for that the scheme will last in the longer term. All of that will help us to reach our ambition of phasing out all new installations of natural gas boilers by 2035, but before we can proceed to legislate for that we must provide effective cheap alternatives; otherwise, the population will, in my view, react badly to being compelled to do that.

I turn next to Amendment 98, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Foster, Lord Lennie and Lord Whitty, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, with contributions from my noble friend Lady Altmann. I would also like to thank the noble Lord for his important work as chairman of the committee. This amendment would require all privately rented homes to have a minimum energy performance certificate—EPC—rating of band C by December 2028, subject to specified exemptions. The amendments would also require non-domestic privately rented properties to meet EPC B by December 2028.

Again, the Government agree with the principle of increasing the ambition for minimum energy-efficiency standards to help reduce energy bills for tenants and to deliver carbon savings to meet our net-zero and achieve our fuel poverty targets. That was reflected in the Government’s consultation, which has been referred to, on proposals to raise the minimum energy-efficiency standard for privately rented homes to EPC C for new tenancies from 1 April 2025 and for all tenancies by 1 April 2028. We are currently considering the results of that consultation, but, as I have said in the House before, it is not an easy policy to progress. There are already shortages of rented accommodation in many parts of the country, and it is certainly not my ambition to further increase those shortages, so we will have to be careful how we proceed in that legislation. The Government also consulted on a minimum energy-efficiency standard for non-domestic privately rented buildings of EPC C by 2027, and EPC B by 2030.

Under the Energy Act 2011, the Secretary of State already has the necessary powers to amend the PRS regulations to raise the minimum energy-efficiency standards and set the dates by which landlords must comply with the new energy standards. As I explained in Committee, the amendment would not allow us to reflect the immense amount of valuable feedback that we received from the consultation in the final policy design that we are currently working on. This will be essential to ensure that it is fair and proportionate for tenants, of course, but also for landlords themselves. As I said at the time, we intend to publish the summary of responses to this consultation later in the year, as confirmed in the powering up Britain Statement.

I hope that I have been able to reassure noble Lords as to our ambitions in this area. We want to see the same policy outcomes as do many in this House and we are already working on many of these areas. I hope that my reassurances will enable the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful to everyone who has spoken on this important issue. The Minister said, in essence, that there is no difference between the Government and my amendment. If that is so, it will not be such a big deal for them to accept it. However, the truth of the matter is that this amendment would mandate action in this area, and in a specific timeframe. I am sad to say that the Government have a credibility problem in this area with their own ambitions, objectives and restatements of policy. I have been very much supported from all Benches—I am particularly grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Deben—and I wish to test the opinion of the House.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Report stage
Tuesday 28th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

Before the noble Lord sits down, I would be very grateful if he can tell me why he thinks so many other people disagree with him on this—so many people who are regulated by the regulator, and so many reports, from your Lordships’ House, the Skidmore report, and from the CCC. Why does the rest of the world not get it?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think it is very easy for other people who are not directly engaged in the business of regulation to think that adding a statutory duty will be the magical cause of all the different elements of the energy system that they want to contribute to. But, of course, what we should also remember is that placing a duty in primary legislation also makes it justiciable.

I am sure there are plenty of lawyers in this House, and lots of litigation is already flying around on net-zero duties—the Government, indeed, need to respond to further litigation by the end of the week. If the House wants to give yet more work to their learned friends—of course, all the costs of that are ultimately borne by consumers—then the House is free to do that. We continue to keep the matter under review, but we are very clear, as is Ofgem, that Ofgem feels as though it already has this responsibility. I hope that Peers will think again.

Cleaner Energy Technologies

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I certainly agree with my noble friend that we need to expand both the potential and the deployment of nuclear reactors, and we are doing just that. We recently passed the Nuclear Energy (Financing) Bill, for which I am grateful for the House’s support. We have invested several hundred million pounds in the new Sizewell plant and are supporting Rolls-Royce to develop the next generation of small modular reactors.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. I think the Minister would be disappointed if I did not raise with him one established clean technology: onshore wind. Can he tell the House what progress we are making with the consultations about lifting the effective ban on new onshore wind developments? Yesterday, the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, referred to the parliamentary pension fund and its investments and report. As a pensioner, I read its report and was delighted to see a photograph of a wind turbine in which the pension fund had invested. My disappointment was that it was in Sweden, not the UK. When can we get some investment and some jobs in onshore wind in this country?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I would indeed be disappointed if the noble Baroness did not raise the subject of onshore wind. She partly answered her own question in that she knows that we are consulting on revising the planning policy framework. I think she is doing us a bit of a disservice. Sweden has a different topography and interests from those of this country. Where we have a world-leading operation is, of course, in offshore wind, where we have the biggest offshore wind farm in the world—and the second, third and fourth. We are truly world leading.

Green Investment

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 7th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness would not expect me to go into detail but we will set out our plans shortly. However, it is important to recognise that the UK has made excellent progress in attracting private investment into low-carbon sectors. PwC’s 2023 annual global CEO survey found that the UK is now in the top three in the global investment market, second only to the US and China. Bloomberg New Energy Finance estimated that, in 2021 and 2022, the UK saw £48 billion of net-zero investment coming into the UK.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, while I recognise the concerns about the anti-competitiveness issues with the Inflation Reduction Act, I wonder whether the Minister has looked at the specific provisions in it in relation to onshore wind. There is support for investment and production, whereas in this country we make the infrastructure of onshore wind subject to far more difficult provisions than any other sort of infrastructure and we have kept it out of investment incentives. When are we going to change those policies?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is dogged in her support for onshore wind and makes an important point. She will know that it is now eligible for CfDs and we are looking at how we can ensure more onshore wind investment with the support of local communities.

Business: Greenwashing

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 10th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if we are to take action on claims of greenwashing, we need clear criteria and standards against which to judge those claims? The Government have recognised that part of this is the need for a green taxonomy. Work has been done on this, yet it seems to have been paused. We were promised the results of the working party by the end of last year, so can he update us on progress on the green taxonomy? I declare my interests as in the register.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right that we need some consistency on these matters. The work on a green taxonomy is being taken forward by the Treasury and as far as I am aware it is proceeding.

Climate Change: Behaviour Change

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Thursday 3rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will certainly ask my DfT colleagues to update the noble Baroness on where we are with the new Great British Railways body, but much of the chaos and cancellations we have seen in train services have been caused by the trade unions, which she is close to.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Minister spoke about energy efficiency in homes and buildings but does he accept that saving energy in them saves money for consumers and the taxpayer, and that it saves emissions for the planet? Bearing that in mind, is it not time that we had a comprehensive energy-efficiency strategy, including skills training and long-term investment, so that the market can be developed and, in the light of that, does he agree that it would be wrong for the Government to reverse the amendment passed by this House on this issue to the Social Housing (Regulation) Bill?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I certainly agree with the first part of the noble Baroness’s question. Energy efficiency plays a vital role, which is why we have a comprehensive energy-efficiency strategy. She will be getting bored with me repeating the statistics, but we are spending something like £12 billion over this Parliament on a whole range of retrofitting strategies, with energy-efficiency policies across all the different domestic and non-domestic sectors.

Energy Supplies

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 12th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Not only can I guarantee that but we will be expanding renewables production. We need to do both. We need to roll out renewables, which have a good track record. They are relatively cheap, but they are intermittent—it is no good telling people that they can keep their lights on for only 60% of the time. The real watchword is that we need diversity of supply. We need more renewables; we need gas; we need nuclear; we need biomass production—we need all of them.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests. I welcome the Government’s movement on the planning regime for onshore wind. I also endorse the need to change the illogical charging regime for electricity generation which was announced today. How will the Government ensure that funding for research and investment in renewables is maintained, given the effective windfall tax on renewables that is being introduced, when the detrimental effect on investment in research on oil and gas was the reason for not having a windfall tax on those industries?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree with the first part of the question from the noble Baroness, but we do have a windfall tax on oil and gas producers: the energy price profits levy was announced earlier in the year. We do not propose a windfall tax on renewables. I welcome her support for increased supplies of wind energy.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Committee stage
Monday 5th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chair of Peers for the Planet. I will speak very briefly to the amendments. I have amendments of my own later in the Bill on energy demand reduction and the regulator’s responsibilities.

I support the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale. It is important that this Bill is specific about the implementation of the aspirations that we hear from government. We have not had enough detail about the plans to implement the strategies, and we have not had enough detail in the strategy. For that reason, I have some sympathy with the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan. He raises important issues about putting flesh on the bones of the aspirations, but I disagree with him about changing the timetable. I also disagree with the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, on the question of whether, because our contribution to global emissions is low, we should go ahead with the contribution we can make in innovation and leadership, which completely ratchets up the effect of this country’s own policies on a global scale.

One serious point I want to make about the noble Lord’s amendment is that I am extremely worried about the suggestion that the Secretary of State should commission and publish “an independent assessment” of the costs, the implementation dates and the risks of the net zero strategy. We have the Climate Change Committee, which is admired for its work throughout the world. It is an important and respected body and it is independent of government. It would be ridiculous to try to get different independent advice: if we go down that road, we are in “anyone’s view is the best view” territory. We have an independent adviser for government. We have the Office for Budget Responsibility; we have lots of people who can comment on the advice it gives, but it would be quite wrong to put in this legislation anything that undermined its position.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

Let me say first what a pleasure it is to open for the Government in today’s discussions: I am sure we will have lots more as we go through the Bill. I thank the noble Lords, Lord Lennie, Lord Ravensdale and Lord West, the noble Baronesses, Lady Blake and Lady Worthington, and my noble friends Lord Frost, Lord Moylan and Lady McIntosh, for their amendments, which seek to address the purpose and strategic aims of the Bill and of course the Government’s energy policy more generally. That allowed us to have a debate with more of the flavour of a Second Reading debate, rather than addressing the specifics of the Bill, but that is understandable given the nature of the amendments.

I turn first to Amendments 1, 6 and 7 from the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord Ravensdale, the noble Baronesses, Lady Blake and Lady Worthington, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh. These amendments all seek to address the fundamental purpose of the Bill. While they are well-intentioned, it is my strong contention that these amendments are not necessary as the Bill already has a clear purpose. Provisions in the Bill as drafted not only have regard to the outcomes those noble Lords seek, but they are actually designed with those outcomes in mind. For example, a number of measures in the Bill will contribute to the resilience of the UK’s energy system—most obviously, those powers related to the ensuring the security of the core fuel sector. I am happy to give the assurance that my noble friend Lady McIntosh sought today: that energy security is of paramount importance to this Government.

Amendment 245 would give effect to Clause 1 once the Act is passed and, for the reasons I described, I do not believe that it is necessary. On Amendment 5, from my noble friends Lord Moylan and Lord Frost, and the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, relating to energy strategy statements, I reassure them that the Energy Bill is to a significant extent an expression of the Government’s strategic intent as set out in the 10-point plan, the energy White Paper, the net-zero strategy and the various sector-specific policy papers we have published. Furthermore, government policy evolves over time and strategies do not always neatly replace others. Some aspects may remain government policy, and some are updated in response to a changing landscape—of course, we have seen that very recently with the Ukrainian invasion. I submit that, rather than prescribing policy intent in primary legislation, it makes more sense to allow Ministers to exercise discretion in these matters and respond to a changing policy environment and international environment.

I move on to the requirement to publish a strategy

“for managing intermittency of electricity supply”.

Intermittency is an important issue, but the National Grid Electricity System Operator is responsible for balancing electricity supply and demand, because while production is intermittent, so is demand. The Government remain confident that they have all the tools needed to operate the electricity system reliably. We can call on a wide range of technology types to do this, some of which were mentioned in the debate today, including emergency gas-fired generation, interconnectors and, crucially, demand-side responses such as insulation, retrofit measures, et cetera.

The capacity market is the Government’s main mechanism for ensuring the security of electricity supply. It has done a great job and we have already secured the majority of Great Britain’s capacity needs to meet future peak electricity demand out to 2025-26. The Government have also committed to ensuring a flexible system which involves the use of a wide range of technologies—again, a number of them were mentioned in the debate today—including battery storage and pumped storage, which I was really interested to hear my noble friend Lord Howell talk about. In my electrical engineering degree many years ago, we studied that particular development; for those who have not been able to see it, it is an incredible feat of engineering.

This amendment also has a requirement to commission assessments of the 10-point plan and of the costs of achieving net zero. My noble friend Lord Moylan raised concerns that progressing towards net zero is a “constraint” to achieving affordable and abundant energy in the UK. I reassure him that, as we transform the energy system, the Government are committed to pursuing the most cost-effective solutions, which, at the moment, are offshore and onshore wind. Ensuring security of supply and decarbonisation, and affordability to the consumer and the Exchequer, are of critical importance. While there will be costs, the costs of inaction in this sector, as we have seen through the invasion of Ukraine, are much greater. Had we not acted over the last decade or so to secure the second-largest supply of offshore wind in the world, the costs we would be facing now would be much greater and our security of supply would be at much greater peril.

As set out in the Net Zero Strategy, we estimate that the net cost to achieving net zero, excluding air quality and emissions-savings benefits, will be the equivalent of 1% to 2% of GDP in 2050. That strategy was informed by the Treasury’s 2021 Net Zero Review, which looked at the potential costs and benefits to businesses and consumers of the transition to a net-zero economy.

Furthermore, several mechanisms already exist to analyse the path towards net zero, as mentioned by my noble friend. For example, the Government’s approach to net zero is already subject to independent scrutiny by the Climate Change Committee, whose 2022 progress report included an analysis of the economic impact of decarbonisation. Much of this work already takes place.

I turn to Amendments 2, 3 and 4, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, and the noble Lord, Lord Lennie. The Energy Act 2013 introduced the power for the designation of a strategy and policy statement that sets out the Government’s strategic priorities for energy policy, the roles and responsibilities of those implementing such a policy and the policy outcomes to be achieved. The Government have committed to laying a strategy and policy statement for energy policy later this year and a statement at the earliest appropriate time. Designation of a strategy and policy statement will ultimately be a decision for Parliament, not the Secretary of State. Therefore, I submit that these amendments are duplicative and unnecessary.

I thank my noble friend Lord Moylan for submitting Amendment 231. He raises an important point; splitting the wholesale market into two—namely, creating one market for variable renewables and another for firm generation—is already being considered as part of the review of electricity market arrangements, or REMA. An initial consultation, which included exactly this proposal, was published in July. Splitting the market is one of many options being considered within REMA. My department is currently assessing the viability of implementing a split market and the potential costs and benefits associated with doing so.

Based on stakeholder responses to the consultation and based on further policy developments, we will publish a second consultation in 2023 to set out any feasible options in more detail. Legislative proposals on how to implement recommended reforms will then follow. Adding a clause into the Bill that commits the Secretary of State to publishing legislative proposals on splitting the market by a specific point in time would, I submit, prejudge the outcomes of both the consultation and the review.

Winter Heating Initiatives

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sorry that the noble Lord is so down on the ECO scheme. It is a good programme and, as he is probably aware, we are expanding it to £1 billion a year. It is not the only energy-efficiency scheme we have: there is the home upgrade grant, the local authority delivery scheme and the social housing decarbonisation fund, which is about to launch bids for another £800 million of grants to local authorities and housing associations.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

The Minister has said the House needs no persuasion of the importance of energy efficiency, yet the Social Housing (Regulation) Bill currently in front of the House contains no mention of energy efficiency and makes no requirement to take it into account for social housing landlords. Will he have a word with his noble friend Lord Greenhalgh, who is in charge of that Bill, to see whether that can be remedied in Committee? The Energy Bill has 370 pages, and 10 lines alone for the Long Title, so, given that we are dealing with it in very short order, I wonder whether he can assure me that that Bill is fitter for purpose than the Schools Bill and the Procurement Bill have been?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There were a number of questions there. The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, mentioned the considerable sums that we will expend on the social housing decarbonisation fund; that funding will be matched by local authorities and housing associations, so we will get more bang for our buck. I am sure that we will have many debates on the Energy Bill. A considerable amount of work has gone into it. There will be some additions to the Bill to cover late policy changes, but I will outline those to the House at Second Reading.

Energy Security Strategy

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I know that my noble friend feels strongly about this subject but it is important that we take account of the recent scientific consensus, and we will do that. We have always been clear that the development of shale gas must be safe and cause minimum disruption and damage to those living and working near sites, and that is not a new position. However, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has asked the British Geological Survey to look again at this process. I think my noble friend is wrong in thinking that we could get large amounts of fracking on stream within 18 months. So far, we have had maybe two wells; to get significant amounts of fracked gas you would need many hundreds if not thousands of such wells, so it is quite a disruptive process and can take quite a long time. Nevertheless, we will be guided by the science and will look again to see whether it is possible to do it, with the consent of local communities.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chair of Peers for the Planet. I return the Minister to his answer to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson: he said that he would not want one person to be able to veto an onshore wind development. Is that not precisely what is implied by the ministerial Statement that now governs these issues? Is that not why we have had a complete standstill on onshore developments? In an earlier answer, the Minister said that community support was important; it is in all planning applications, but why should these planning applications have a far higher standard, which requires unanimity from the local community? I ask why the Statement said that we would double down on every available technology, yet did not look at that issue, and why it makes a very limited proposal for developments that would support local communities in terms of cheaper electricity. That is fine but it does not give the volume that we need. May I ask specifically about the part of the Statement that says that we will look at arrangements to support the repowering of existing onshore wind sites? This is a real issue: we will not only not expand but contract because of the difficulties of repowering. What is the nature and timescale of the inquiries that will be made?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I know that the noble Baroness is a passionate supporter of onshore wind. She brought her Bill on it recently and we debated the subject at great length. I know she will continue to probe and push me, as is correct, on this subject about which she feels so strongly. The Government are clear: we want to see an expansion of onshore wind and we would like to see the communities that host this new Bill’s infrastructure benefit from developments in their areas. We hope that will drive greater levels of community consent, which will allow more of the procedures to come forward. I will write to the noble Baroness with details of repowering existing onshore wind infrastructure.

Energy Security Strategy

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Thursday 7th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the publication of the Energy Security Strategy on Thursday 7 April, whether they will give further details on their proposals for onshore wind and home insulation.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

The Government’s energy security strategy sets out a comprehensive package of measures to improve the UK’s energy security. We will support the deployment of onshore wind across the UK. This includes a commitment to consult this year on onshore wind partnerships in supportive local areas in England. On the second part of the noble Baroness’s question, we are spending a total of £6.6 billion across the lifetime of this Parliament to retrofit the nation’s buildings, and the Chancellor announced the removal of VAT on energy efficiency measures.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register and apologise, because I may have inadvertently misled the House in saying that the strategy had been published today. In fact, what was published yesterday was a four-page press release, two pages of which were supportive quotes about the policy. Perhaps as a starter, the Minister could tell us when we will actually see the policy. With what has been published, in the week of the IPCC’s most frightening warnings yet on global warming, and when customers and consumers face horrifying energy bills, it is deeply disappointing to see a set of policies outlined that concentrates on the expensive and the long term and fails to support what would work immediately and help both consumers and the climate.

I have two specific questions for the Minister. Why are there no extra measures to support consumers in insulating their homes? We have some of the worst housing stock in the world, and that is an absolute no-brainer to reduce demand, so we should support it. Is that the result of the cold hand of the Chancellor? Why, when the figures from both his own department and the Conservative Environmental Network this week show that more than 80% of the public support onshore wind, are the Government being so timid and refusing to allow normal planning procedures to go ahead? Is that the dead hand of the Government Chief Whip?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There were a number of questions from the noble Baroness. I think she may have unfairly maligned my noble friend Lord Ashton. I am not aware that he has any strong views on the subject. I am sure he will communicate with me if he does, but he has not so far. The strategy will be published later today, and I apologise that the noble Baroness has not had a chance to look at it so far.

With regard to her other questions, we are rolling out the development and formation of low-carbon sources of power, be they nuclear or offshore wind, and we are going to go further on onshore wind. I know it is a subject that the noble Baroness feels passionately about. We must do so in full recognition of the concerns of many local communities. We want to take people with us when we do that, so we will seek a number of pilots to take those policies forward.

We are already spending a lot of money on energy efficiency programmes. I have outlined them numerous times in this House before, but I would be happy to do so again. It would have been good to go further but, regrettably, that was not possible in this case.

COP 26

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Monday 28th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We consult with lots of scientists. Of course, there are always ongoing debates about these matters. Irrespective of the opinions of particular scientists, there is now a legal commitment, and it is the job of the Government to work towards what Parliament has legislated for.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register and hope the Minister will keep listening to the IPCC and the overwhelming scientific advice on this issue. In an earlier reply, the Minister referred to GFANZ and the importance of financial flows into green projects. Does he agree with me that for those flows to be effective and genuinely go into green projects, we need an international green taxonomy that is respected? Can he give any more information on the working party on green taxonomy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree with the noble Baroness; it is important that we get a green taxonomy right, and the products and services that will form part of it. We are working hard towards getting it finalised in the UK. I cannot give her a precise timescale at the moment, but we are determined to be a world leader in green finance.

Gazprom Energy

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Thursday 24th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, is it possible not to be profligate but sensible about onshore wind? At the moment we have a total moratorium on a source of domestic cheap power that has been imposed by the very strict planning restrictions. As the Minister is well aware—the House may not be—my Private Member’s Bill, the Onshore Wind Bill, would put this situation right and put applications for onshore developments into the same regime of planning applications as other renewables.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I was glad to debate the noble Baroness’s Bill last week. We are not ruling out onshore wind—it can make an important contribution. There are local planning considerations that are important to bear in mind. Many people object to fracking because of the imposition on local communities, and in many respects the same objections and arguments should apply to onshore wind as well. We need to take the public with us on this and ensure that there is public support for these turbines.

Onshore Wind Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

3rd reading
Friday 18th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I join in the thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, for this Bill to revise national planning guidance on onshore wind. While the Government were not convinced that the Bill is the right course of action, we agree with the importance of increasing onshore wind deployment in order to reach our net-zero targets. As my noble friend Lord Lilley implied, recent events have demonstrated how crucial it is that we build a strong, homegrown renewable energy sector to further reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

However, that does not alter the Government’s position here. We welcome the Bill and the opportunity to debate this important subject, although we cannot support it. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, on bringing the Bill to the House and enabling what has been an excellent debate. I thank all noble Lords for their contributions at Second Reading, which allowed for an insightful and important debate on the subject. I also thank my officials for their support during Second Reading, which enabled noble Lords to receive prompt and, I hope, comprehensive answers on matters of interest.

The Government are not convinced that this Bill is the right solution to bring forward more onshore wind deployment in England. We continue to keep English planning policy under careful review to ensure that decisions on onshore wind can be taken that are in keeping with our carbon budgets.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful; I shall read the Minister’s comments very carefully. I think he said the Government were not convinced that this was the right way to bring forward more onshore wind. Of course, the moratorium was effectively imposed by a ministerial Statement. If the Government can find other ways, I will gladly cede my Bill in the cause. Beyond that, I was delighted to have a moment of unanimity with the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, almost to the end of what he said—but we must take what we can.

Green Skills

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 9th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to introducing a national green skills strategy to ensure that the workforce has the necessary skills to meet the United Kingdom’s net zero emissions commitments.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Net Zero Strategy sets out our plans to work with industry to create the skilled workforce needed to deliver our net-zero targets. This includes green apprenticeships and retraining boot camps. The Government are establishing a green jobs delivery group, co-chaired by a government Minister and an industry representative, where government, industry and other key stakeholders will work together to deliver the skills needed for net zero.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register and thank the Minister for that Answer. Green skills will be fundamental to economic growth and the levelling-up agenda, as well as to achieving net zero. While I recognise that much is going on in various parts of the forest, will the Government now bring together all the various agencies and departments with business and industry to provide a comprehensive and systematic strategy for skills? I also take the opportunity of the Minister being at the Dispatch Box to ask whether, given the reports in today’s papers about onshore wind, the Government will now give my Private Member’s Bill on the issue fair passage.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. Before I answer, I will detain the House for a moment to acknowledge that, after 52 years of distinguished service in Parliament, this is the final appearance of my noble friend Lord Tebbit, who is joined by his family in the Public Gallery. I am sure I speak for the whole House in saying that we have been greatly enhanced by his presence here and wish him the very best for his long and happy retirement. We on these Benches will miss him.

Going back to the question of the noble Baroness, she makes a very good point. We are bringing together the Green Jobs Taskforce, chaired by my right honourable friend Minister Hands, with representatives from the DfE, the DWP and all the key departments in Whitehall. With regard to her Private Member’s Bill, we have an energy Bill coming up which will deal with many of these matters.

Net-zero Test for New Policies

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the letter from the Confederation of British Industry, Trades Union Congress and others, to the Prime Minister on 3 December 2021; and in particular the recommendation to establish “a new overarching Net Zero Test for new policies”.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are ensuring that decision-making across government is aligned to deliver net zero. This includes establishing two Cabinet committees to co-ordinate action across government and strengthening official-level governance. The Net Zero Strategy includes a commitment to:

“Ensure that decisions taken on government spending are informed by their impact on meeting net zero.”


The Government have also committed to publishing

“an annual progress update against a set of key indicators for achieving our climate goals.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer, but it is very similar to the Answer he gave me some months ago when I asked about the recommendation that the Climate Change Committee made to Parliament that there should be a net-zero test on all government policies. Last month that recommendation was endorsed in a letter to the Prime Minister by the CBI, the TUC, UK corporate leaders’ groups and others. They see the benefits of a comprehensive approach not only in achieving our net-zero targets but in providing a coherent and transparent framework from government for the efforts of business and industry to fuel the green growth we so badly need. Will the Government now accept the advice they have been given so broadly?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness, but the reason my Answer was very similar to a few months ago was that the Question was very similar to the one she asked me a few months ago. We have taken new approaches to embed net zero in spending decisions, including requiring departments to include the greenhouse gas emissions of their spending review bids and their impact on meeting carbon budgets and net zero. There is a huge amount of co-ordination taking place across government and between this Government and the devolved Administrations in helping us to meet our goals.

Drax Wood Pellets

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Monday 13th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord gives me a great cue to talk about the contracts for difference scheme that we launched just this morning, which for the first time allows tidal power to bid. I completely agree with the noble Lord, and we are doing it.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

The Minister mentioned the contracts for difference, which include onshore wind. As he knows from the Bill that we discussed two Fridays ago, there are still planning issues with onshore wind development, particularly with replacement of current onshore wind. Will the Government look a little more sympathetically at supporting my Bill?

Net-zero Emissions Target: Fossil Fuel Extraction Projects

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 3rd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It is strange; I thought the Liberal Democrats were in favour of local planning control—obviously not in these particular cases. As the noble Lord is aware, that application is subject to an application in the Court of Appeal at the moment, and therefore I cannot comment on it.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Prime Minister said in the Statement we will discuss later:

“This is the moment when we must turn words into action.”


Is it not also the moment when we need to adopt a consistent and transparent stance on all new fossil fuel projects? Would the Minister agree that the Government would be aided in this if they adopted the recommendation of the Climate Change Committee to have a net-zero test against all new policies and over all new departments?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. We are indeed following the advice of the Climate Change Committee, which has accepted the need for oil and gas as we proceed to net zero. I remind the noble Baroness that we have the fastest decarbonisation rate of any G7 country. So we are proceeding on the path to decarbonisation, but is unrealistic to expect that we can just turn off the oil and gas supplies tomorrow.

Net Zero Test

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, over the last three decades the UK has achieved record clean growth. Between 1990 and 2019, our economy has grown by 78%, while our emissions have reduced by 44%—the fastest reduction in the G7. The Government recently set out the UK’s sixth carbon budget, which would reduce 2035 emissions by 78% compared to 1990. We have strong governance around net zero; this includes two Cabinet Committees, one of which, the Climate Action Strategy Committee, is chaired by the Prime Minister. We will respond officially to the CCC report in due course.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that response and I declare my interests as set out in the register. I was privileged to be present to hear the speech of Special Presidential Envoy John Kerry, in London this week. He spoke passionately of the scale of the challenges the world faces and the urgency and breadth of the action needed to avert catastrophic climate change. Do the Government accept the need highlighted in the recent report of the Climate Change Committee to put a climate lens on all government legislation and all policy choices? Will they show global leadership on this issue, in the run-up to COP 26 in Glasgow, by committing to a net zero test in their imminent, I hope, net zero strategy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Well, as I told the noble Baroness in my Answer, we have really strong governance around climate change. There are two Cabinet committees, one established and chaired by the Prime Minister and the second chaired by the COP 26 president designate. Of course, we look at all policies and their impact on climate change.

Private Sector: Environment and COP 26

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 7th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very good point. She will have seen the announcement that we made only this morning on additional investment in wind turbine infrastructure in the Humber and the Tees. We will of course showcase the excellent efforts of these companies.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, given the enthusiasm that the Minister has expressed for the work being done and the fact that many companies are making great progress in this area, do the Government support the Better Business Act campaign business leaders who are calling for the amendment of Section 172 of the Companies Act to remove shareholder privacy provisions so that companies are legally obliged to operate in a manner that benefits all stakeholders. Do the Government have plans to review the UK’s corporate governance code to ensure that it is in line with our net-zero-by-2050 target?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a good point. We keep all these matters under constant review. We are constantly looking at the corporate governance code and we are reforming audit and corporate governance at the moment. We will be announcing some plans when the consultation has closed.

Climate Change

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 29th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chair of Peers for the Planet. The Climate Change Committee report, as the Minister will know, was explicit about the need for all government policies to be subject to a net-zero test, yet we have before the House at the moment a skills Bill—and skills will be crucial to the green jobs of the future—that makes no mention whatever of our net-zero targets. So will the Minister undertake to have discussions with his colleagues at the Department for Education about supporting the amendments to the Bill that I am tabling to remedy this serious omission?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I cannot promise the noble Baroness that we will support her amendments; I will need to look at them first. But we are doing a lot on skills. For example, the green homes grant included tens of millions of pounds that we spent on grants to encourage providers to provide the training that will be required to undertake many of the green improvements that we all want to see.

Net-Zero Carbon Emissions

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Monday 7th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend has made a good point. The UK was one of the first major economies to legislate for net-zero emissions by 2050, and of course our ambitious domestic action gives the UK the credibility to influence and to accelerate global action. If the noble Lord looks at some of the commitments that have been made by major economies before COP 26, he will see that considerable action is being taken.

[Baroness Hayman (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I return to the issue of decarbonising homes. Does the Minister accept that public confidence and engagement have been damaged by the failure of several schemes, culminating in the green homes grant? Will the much-delayed heating and buildings strategy provide a clear and comprehensive framework for the changes that are necessary, including costings, so that industry and individuals alike can plan?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness will have to be patient to see the detail of the heating and buildings strategy, but it will provide a clear and comprehensive road map for the challenging work that we all understand will need to take place on decarbonising the heat that goes into both commercial and domestic buildings.

Energy White Paper

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for his comments and particularly for his comment that the White Paper is highly ambitious. He might want to speak to the noble Lord, Lord Oates, on that. Of course, he is right to point out the immense challenge that faces us in decarbonising heat and buildings. We will publish our heat and buildings strategy next year, but there are a number of elements to that: investing in building insulation through schemes such as the ECO scheme and the Green Homes Grant; and investing in the production of hydrogen and in the various experiments and research and development on the potential for hydrogen to replace gas in the domestic grid. My noble friend is perfectly right that this is ambitious. It is an area that needs further work and study, but we are making progress. A new heat network transformation programme is launching next year, starting with £122 million of funding, which was confirmed at the spending review. The White Paper is laying the foundations for reducing the emissions from buildings, which we will build on in the study next year.

[Baroness Hayman (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Secretary of State in the other place spoke of unleashing private sector investment to fulfil the ambitions of the White Paper. To provide the legislative and regulatory clarity and certainty necessary to stimulate that investment, particularly in the wind sector, will the Government commit to act swiftly to bring forward the legislation promise on energy competition networks? Will they ensure that our net-zero commitments are at the heart of the new energy planning framework promised for next year?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes some very good points. I cannot give her the specific reassurances she wants; I understand her ambition for this sector, but the process of legislation is subject to parliamentary time, agreement with the business managers, et cetera. I have noted her points, and we will bear those comments in mind when planning the legislative programme.

Green Economic Recovery

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Monday 14th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB) [V]]

My question was about the Economic Affairs Committee report published today. It makes it clear that recovery from Covid-19 and investment in a green economy for the future are far from divergent aims; they are complementary. Does the Minister agree with the contention in that report that government spending should be on policies more tightly focused on creating job opportunities that reflect the long-term context and that the Government should prioritise green projects that can be delivered at scale and quickly and can take place across the country?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I agree with the noble Baroness that we need to generate more green jobs and to build back better—that was the aim of the 10-point plan, and it is a central aim of the Government. The noble Baroness makes an important point and we shall endeavour to do exactly that.

World Energy Outlook 2020

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 20th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate makes a very good point. Local micro energy schemes will play a key role in our decarbonisation efforts but, of course, fundamental changes are required in the grid to enable us to move to a much more diversified model, away from key energy nodes, and considerable investment is taking place to allow that to happen.

[Baroness Hayman (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Does the Minister agree that there are considerable opportunities for the creation of many sustainable jobs for the future in the infrastructure and technology projects needed to achieve net zero? If so, can he assure me that plans are in place for reskilling workers currently facing redundancy or the loss of their job to take up those sustainable jobs for the future?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Indeed, I agree with the noble Baroness. In a previous answer I referenced the green homes grant: £2 billion worth of green stimulus investment that is going to generate hundreds of thousands of jobs. I have been in discussions with lots of contractors that are already expanding their workforce. We have provided training grants to enable them to upskill both existing and new employees. I agree with the point that the noble Baroness is making.

Committee on Climate Change: Progress Report

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 1st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question in my name on the Order Paper and declare my interests as set out in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government welcome the committee’s comprehensive and wide-ranging report and agree with it that tackling climate change should be at the heart of our economic recovery. The actions we need to take to achieve our world-leading net-zero target can help to deliver a stronger, cleaner and more resilient United Kingdom following this pandemic. The Government will publish their full response to the CCC by 15 October, as required by the Climate Change Act.

[Baroness Hayman [V]]

I am grateful to the Minister for that response. As he knows, the report concludes that steps the UK has taken in the past year

“do not yet measure up to meet the size of the Net Zero challenge”

and calls for urgent, concerted and cross-government action in the run-up to COP 26 next year. It also, as he says, sets out how economic stimulus measures to recover from the present global catastrophe of Covid-19 can contribute to averting the impending, even greater global catastrophe of unmitigated climate change. Will Her Majesty’s Government therefore commit to a comprehensive policy of creating sustainable jobs and infrastructure across the UK, including in low-carbon power and heating, decarbonising transport and improvements in broadband connectivity?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Baroness makes some very powerful points. As I said, we will respond formally to the committee in October, but the Prime Minister set out yesterday a number of measures that we will be taking. He said that we will build back better, we will build back greener and we will build back faster. The committee has made a number of recommendations in all the areas she covers, listed by specific government department, and we will respond in due course.

Climate Change: COP 26 Arrangements

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Thursday 12th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord is quite correct that a huge amount of international engagement will be required. We are looking to every country to put forward its nationally determined contributions this year at COP, including the United States. We have been talking to it about that. Obviously, the current coronavirus problem presents a challenge for international engagement, but we continue to do our best in the circumstances.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, further to the Minister’s answer to that question, given that the pre-meeting in Bonn for COP 26 has been cancelled and our co-chair, Italy, is facing the problems that it is, what steps are the Government taking to make sure that the necessary level of intergovernmental discussion is going on to make COP a success? What plans are there to involve parliamentarians from all countries involved in the run-up to the meeting and in the meeting itself?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Baroness is right to point out that it is proving a challenge at the moment; the Bonn meeting has been cancelled but there are still several months to go before COP. Intense diplomacy and conversations are taking place by telephone, videoconference et cetera. We hope that some of the meetings can be reinstated. Of course it is vital to involve parliamentarians; many have attended previous COPs, and I am sure many will attend this one as well.

EU Withdrawal

Debate between Baroness Hayman and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I think that she said “all the necessary legislation”—so yes, I do agree with the comments that she made. As of today we have made positive progress and laid more than 420 statutory instruments out of the total of up to 600 required before exit day.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

Could the noble Lord tell us the difference between the “necessary” legislation and the legislation he has just described as “required”?

[Lord Callanan]

It means that we are confident that we can pass all of the necessary legislation required. I can only repeat the words that my right honourable friend used.

I also heard the remarks made yesterday by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, that there is still much work to be done in scrutinising these instruments. That work is being done to an extremely high quality, and this House is doing the country a great service. I thank noble Lords for that. I pay tribute to her and to all the other members of the scrutiny committees, chaired by my noble friend Lord Trefgarne and the noble Lord, Lord Cunningham. They have an intense workload.

I welcome the beginning of the European Union Committee’s work in considering the programme of international agreements that we are pursuing to ensure the greatest possible continuity, whether or not we are successful in securing the deal we all hope to achieve. The committee and its sub-committees are doing extremely valuable work, and we owe them also a debt of gratitude.

The Motion before us asks the House to take note of the ongoing discussions with the EU. My noble friend Lady Evans, the Leader of the House, set out yesterday the latest position when repeating the Prime Minister’s Statement. Noble Lords will be pleased to know that I will not test their patience by repeating that in detail. As they know, following the mandate given to her on 29 January, the Prime Minister visited Brussels last week, and, as she highlighted yesterday, both she and President Juncker have agreed that our teams should hold further talks to find a way forward.

Of course, the backstop is not something that we would ever want to use. In the event that it was implemented, we would only ever want it to be temporary. Given this, we consider it reasonable to ask for legally binding changes to reflect that temporary nature.

We are at a crucial point in the negotiations. As I have detailed, the Government are engaging with colleagues on all sides to help deliver a deal that the other place can support. This House has played, and will continue to play, a vital role in progressing the debate with scrutiny and expertise as we move into phase two of the negotiations, not least through wider exit preparations, including—as I touched on earlier—preparing our statute book for exit day. There are exit-related Bills and secondary legislation currently before the House and, as soon as possible after the other place has approved the deal, the withdrawal agreement Bill will be introduced to implement the withdrawal agreement in UK law. As we look forward, the Government are committed to ensuring that there is a greater say for Parliament in developing the mandate for the next phase of negotiations.

Noble Lords will be pleased to know that I will not seek to detain the House any further with an exposition of the Government’s policy, as we heard that yesterday. Today is an opportunity for noble Lords to expand on issues raised yesterday and perhaps even to raise some new ones that we have not heard before. I will of course endeavour to respond to as many of the issues raised as I can when I close the debate this evening. I beg to move.