Football Governance Bill [HL]

Baroness Grey-Thompson Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 9th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I would like to support absolutely these amendments. I say for the record—and I am sure that I speak for all contributors to these debates—that I am making these points because I care deeply about football and about what is best for football. I think these amendments absolutely do that.

I have many examples of sitting on boards as an independent non-exec director; they are absolutely the sort of people we want, making sure that a club is putting forward appropriate business plans that are sensible, and sometimes taking a risk—risk appetite is in these amendments—but with the right approach to doing so. Having that balance on the board, of owners, supporters and independent, wise heads, has got to be a sensible thing. With that in mind, I offer my support for the amendments.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I rise very briefly to speak to Amendments 54, 156 and 157. I apologise to your Lordships for not being here on the previous day of Committee but, as chair of Sport Wales—I declare my interest—I was chairing a meeting of Welsh governing bodies of sport.

In my time involved in sport, I have sat on a number of different sports bodies, including British Athletics, where intimate knowledge of the sport is really helpful, and the Olympic Park London Legacy Development Corporation, where wider knowledge of a range of sports makes a difference. I put my name on these amendments because I sat for two years on the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club and was interim chair for nine months. As part of that, I was challenged occasionally on whether I knew the laws of cricket and how dare I put my name forward for this. But I was not there as an independent non-executive to umpire a game; I was there to bring good governance to the county.

Bringing that jigsaw of skills is really important. As the noble Lord, Lord Knight, mentioned, there is a sports governance code. Olympic and Paralympic sport have benefited greatly from having this. It is about bringing that expertise, accountability and scrutiny. For me, it is about setting the tone for the whole pyramid of the game, and how that feeds up to the Premier League. If we do not get this right for the pyramid, we do not get it right for the sport. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to these amendments.

[Lord Reay (Con)]

My Lords, I wish to speak briefly to Amendment 249, laid down by the noble Lord, Lord Mann, and Amendment 156 from the noble Lord, Lord Bassam. Regrettably, I was not able to participate at Second Reading, for which I apologise. I declare an interest as an enthusiastic football fan and supporter of West Ham United since the days of Bobby Moore and Geoff Hurst—which dates me a bit.

Clause 20 of this Bill introduces corporate governance duties with regard to equality, diversity and inclusion. Amendment 249 from the noble Lord, Lord Mann, would create an additional duty on football clubs to produce an annual report detailing the club’s diversity and inclusion strategy. This sounds in theory like a good thing. The problem here is that the Football Association’s idea of diversity and inclusion seems to be to promote some forms of diversity while silencing—even excluding—others.

The current approach at the FA punishes and excludes one particular group: women who object to male inclusion in the women’s game. Noble Lords have previously spoken in this House about the 17 year-old girl who was disciplined and suspended for asking a male player on the pitch in a women’s game, “Are you a bloke—a male player in a women’s game?” She was suspended. That is not inclusion.

Amendment 156, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, proposes that the corporate government statement must include a club’s plan to improve the diversity of season ticket holders, staff and senior managers. The FA’s investigations unit helped Newcastle United Football Club collect personal information about a lesbian fan which resulted in her suspension by the club from attending matches because someone at her club did not like her social media posts. This behaviour by the FA and the club is not inclusion.

Both examples show intolerance of what are called gender-critical views—that is, the ordinary scientific and common-sense understanding that there are two sexes, that human beings cannot change sex and that sex matters. Those are mainstream views and they are critical to ensuring fairness and safety in sport. People who hold and express them are protected against discrimination and harassment on the basis of belief by the Equality Act 2010, but the FA is punishing female players and fans for expressing these views.

Through its partnership with Stonewall, the FA has made its campaign one of intolerance, disallowing the expression of any views other than the mantra of “trans women are women”. When diversity and inclusion is defined by more tolerance, I shall welcome it. If we compel English football to pursue more of this so-called diversity and inclusion, it will be at the further expense of women and girls.

What is the solution? The solution is to stop talking in vague terms about diversity and inclusion and have the courage to talk about the groups who need to be included: women and girls, gay men and those who are disabled. Let us have less of the thought-policing and more genuine inclusion. Until we can do that, we must oppose the further imposition of vague diversity and inclusion requirements, because they are anything but inclusive.

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[Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Lab)]

My Lords, I will say just a word, because Amendment 72 in my name and that of the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, is included in this group. We have, to a certain extent, discussed this already, because this reflects on the kind of support that clubs would get were they to seek a licence, get a provisional licence or try to comply with the regulations that will be there. The Minister was very reassuring when we discussed this previously, but I hope that, at some stage during the passage of the Bill through either House, we can get a little more detail on how this may work in practice.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

My Lords, I have put my name to Amendment 72, but shall comment briefly on the amendments in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Mann and Lord Addington.

We need to be clear that this is a regulator for the men’s game, not the game of football. I am really excited to see the growth of women’s football; it has a massive impact on society. Some 80% of women are not fit enough to be healthy, and football is one of those sports that connects and is changing the relationship between girls and physical activity and sport. I was at the Wales v Northern Ireland women’s game the other week and the groups of teenage girls coming to support in a way that they might not support the men’s game, and the little girls dressed in their Welsh kit and goalkeeper’s kit, was a really beautiful sight to see.

But the women’s game needs to be protected and nurtured, and I do not want to see any unintended consequences of regulation or anything that makes it harder for women to be involved in what is an incredible game. I am meeting the Minister this week, and this is one of things I will be discussing with her.

[Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD)]

My Lords, I will be very brief. In my view, these are proper probing amendments about unintended consequences—such as with Solihull—and the need to support women to get to the elite level, as well as the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson. This is not about having an argument or asking the Government to rethink anything; these are truly probing amendments asking the Minister and those who work on the Bill to look at these points and make the Bill better. I am so thankful for the support of the noble Lord, Lord Markham, in that. This group gets to the nub of an issue that can be dealt with very quickly.