Airports Slot Allocation (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021

Debate between Baroness Garden of Frognal and Lord Empey

Tuesday 19th January 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Empey (UUP) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister and her officials for arranging a briefing yesterday, which was most helpful. I agree with a lot of the contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett. I also support in broad terms the relief from the 80:20 rule, because the last thing we want, for a whole variety of reasons, is to have the sight of airlines undertaking ghost flights to hold on to routes even if they have no current passengers.

A couple of years ago—in fact, on two occasions—I introduced a Private Member’s Bill, which passed the House, to give the Government powers on slot allocation in the UK. Of course, it was governed by European competence at that stage. Slots are not only big business; they have huge implications for connectivity. While this measure does not apply to Northern Ireland airports, because they have capacity, at the end of the day a flight cannot take off unless it has somewhere to land. My anxiety has for years been about the risk from the absence of connectivity between the regions and the principal airports—what are called co-ordinated airports —such as Heathrow and Gatwick. I will return to that, although it is not necessary for this SI, but the principle is clear: if you do not ensure that regions have access to major airports with connectivity, that has economic, social and other implications. I ask my noble friend to bear that in mind.

I also doubt very much that airlines could manage even 20% of the flights on a lot of their slots at present. We had a briefing from one of our colleagues—the noble Lord, Lord Deighton, the chairman of Heathrow —where he pointed out that, in a number of months last year, its passenger flow had dropped by 95%. It is quite obvious that there needs to be as much flexibility as possible. As I understand it—I hope I am right in saying this—these measures will be available to apply in the summer season this year, but further secondary legislation or an approval Motion would have to come through to deal with subsequent seasons if the need arose, and there needs to be data on which to base that judgment. I think I have got that right; perhaps the Minister can correct me if I am wrong.

I broadly support the regulations. We need maximum flexibility at the moment. We need data but, looking forward, we need to bear in mind that it is essential for the key airports to have slot allocations. My anxiety is that when this crisis is over there could be a sudden surge in those airlines—international operators, perhaps —that have resources buying up a lot of the slots from weakened UK airlines and other slot holders. This could have a negative impact on the regions, so I ask my noble friend the Minister to also bear that in mind.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, has withdrawn so I call the noble Lord, Lord Naseby. We do not seem to have the noble Lord.

Agriculture Bill

Debate between Baroness Garden of Frognal and Lord Empey

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansarad) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansarad): House of Lords
Tuesday 7th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

I understand that the noble Baroness, Lady Mallalieu, has scratched, so I now call the noble Lord, Lord Empey.

[Lord Empey [V]]

My Lords, one theme that has come up today has been the theme of definition. In the last group, the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, led to a discussion of the differences between “conserve” and “enhance”. In this group, the noble Earl, Lord Devon, has drawn our attention to the difference between “enjoyment” and “health and wellbeing”. I am inclined to agree with him on that, and the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, did so as well. When we look at access to the countryside, clearly a balance has to be struck: where large amounts of taxpayers’ money are being invested in the countryside, then quite clearly many people wish to seek access to it. I understand that, in certain cases, people who seek access to the countryside under certain circumstances can cause harm in so far as they can spread diseases and so on. Lots of people feel that, as part of the country, they need to have access and have a right to have access, so it is a question of getting the balance right. The point that the noble Earl, Lord Devon, was making was that by making health and well-being a public good, it categorises something. Enjoyment is such a broadly based point that it lacks any kind of clarity. Those terms should be revisited.

On the general point about access to the countryside, we encourage people for health and well-being purposes to go there if they are resident in cities. However, we have to remember that many people live in the countryside who are not farmers, and there are many parts of the agricultural sector that are not farms. Some people have this idea that it is the job of people who work in the countryside to make sure that the hedges are well trimmed so that when the city dwellers come out at the weekend, it all looks very pretty. That is not what it is—it is not a museum. It cannot be maintained in aspic. The rural areas are living, working workplaces in many cases, and we want to ensure that that continues. However, I say to the Minister that the question of balance requires some consistency in how we define these matters, particularly when we are establishing public good. The general thrust of the Bill is good, but we must put more effort into consistency of definition.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

I call the noble Lord, Lord Naseby. We cannot hear him so we will move on to the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, and will try to get the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, back later.