Schools Bill [HL]

Baroness Fox of Buckley Excerpts

Report stage & Lords Hansard - Part 2
Tuesday 12th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I rise very briefly to offer Green group support for all these amendments. Most of them have already been powerfully covered. I particularly echo the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. I am sure I am not the only noble Lord who has received very distressed and distressing emails from many parents who have found themselves in similar situations to the ones that she outlined where they know and have medical advice that says that it is unsafe for their children to go to school, yet they are still coming under extreme, undue pressure to put their children into an actively dangerous situation.

The structure of these things is that we have not yet heard the introduction to Amendments 114 and 115 in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Chapman and Lady Wilcox. In a sense, I want to continue a conversation with the Minister that I started on 29 March in the debate on the schools White Paper about mental health. These amendments particularly draw attention to the elements about how children’s mental health is affected by their schooling. I hope to hear a positive response from the Minister to both these amendments, which are about collecting essential information. I would like to hear a response from the Government that acknowledges that mental health in schools is an issue that cannot be addressed by simply saying, “We’re going to increase the exam marks” because that focus on exam marks is very much part of the problem.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I am very sympathetic to Amendments 62 and 107. I have spoken several times about mental health and I want to oppose Amendments 63, 114 and 115 on mental health provision. One concern I have is about the focus on creating a duty on the Secretary of State for Education to give financial assistance to set up consultations and reporting mechanisms on mental health and well-being. I do not think it is the job of the Education Minister to have this role, and this focus could well incentivise schools to focus too much on mental health. It is inappropriate for schools to prioritise mental health issues, and it muddles the responsibility of schools and the NHS and CAMHS. I would like to see more done for young people by the NHS, and I am trying to separate those things out.

My main point remains, as I have argued before, that if adults in schools continue to focus on mental health, there is a danger that young people will see the undoubted challenges of growing up—whether they are the agonies, anxieties and confusions of being a child going through puberty and what have you or the stresses and strains of facing exams and being educated—through the prism of mental health. We should be reassuring young people about the challenges and that they are perfectly all right. I worry that we are in danger of pathologising them.

I worry about a fait accompli situation. That point was emphasised by a recent report. Since we last discussed this issue, a shocking revelation has emerged, based on an Answer to a Question tabled in this House by the noble Marquess, Lord Lothian, which revealed that children under 18 are being prescribed record levels of anti-depressant drugs, a 57% increase over the last four years, and noted that among five to 12 year-olds the prescription of anti-depressant drugs has gone up 40%. That situation could refute everything that I have said—it could mean that there was an exponential growth of mental health problems among the young—but psychiatric experts and psychologists have responded to it by saying the figures are staggering and dangerous. Professor Sami Timimi calls them a generation pathologised by adults steering the young towards medical diagnosis that is not appropriate, and says that itself then leads to treatment that is often pharmacological.

This medicalisation can of course have a catastrophic impact on the young. Another expert, Professor Spada, talks about the dangers of that, saying that adult neuroses about the young will lead them on to taking drugs that are highly addictive and will create a dependency. I think there is a real warning here that we should not just say “There is a growth in mental health problems” and let it run its course. I also think that the young themselves can then develop dependency not just on drugs but on the therapeutic labels that we have given them and been socialising them into during their school years.

The amendment uses an odd phrase, which has just been referred to, which is to explore how children’s mental health is “affected by … their schooling”, which I thought sounded rather accusatory or even a bit conspiratorial. That is especially ironic when we have ample evidence that it was the lack of schooling in the lockdown, combined with fear-based messaging over the last couple of years, that seems to have done a huge amount of psychological damage. I urge the Committee not to put this into law. If anything, I would like to have a more open discussion about the real problem of mental health and what it emanates from.

Finally, I am glad to see that Ofsted has been removed from the equation—it was in earlier amendments—but I still dread that the Secretary of State is being told to publish a report on the actions taken by schools to improve mental health. That will inevitably distract from the core purpose, which is indeed about the minds of young people but it should be about improving their minds educationally, not playing amateur psychology or psychiatry in the classroom.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

My Lords, I support Amendments 114 and 115. I recognise that the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley, has made some very helpful points about the danger of pathologising and the need for collaboration between education and health, although she put it rather more as an either/or while I would want to see it more as a both/and.

I particularly thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Chapman of Darlington and Lady Wilcox of Newport, for proposed new paragraph (c) in Amendment 115. The noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, and I could give the Committee a very good example of the work in local schools by the Darlington Area Churches Youth Ministry, which is outstanding when it comes to young people’s mental health and mental well-being. It is a voluntary charity that works in collaboration with schools. I am delighted that that was included.

While I acknowledge some of the concerns of the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, I think these amendments are well thought through and would be of value.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, Amendment 64 would require the Secretary of State to create a framework for careers education in primary schools and to give financial assistance to primary schools in areas of disadvantage to deliver the programme. We did effectively discuss this amendment in Committee three weeks ago, on 20 June, and in her reply the Minister said that the Government did in fact want to do this and would announce details in due course. I am delighted that, last week, the Department for Education issued a tender for the delivery of a programme for careers provision in primary schools in areas of disadvantage. I just want to acknowledge that; it is a most welcome development.

As we said in Committee, this is an issue of social mobility; it is about levelling up; it is about widening children’s and young people’s horizons. There is so much evidence that shows that if you start talking about careers guidance only at secondary school, it can be too late for some, because some children, at the age of seven, have already formed life-defining decisions about the kinds of careers they aspire to. I do not wish to take any more of the House’s time but I just acknowledge that the Government have made a very helpful move with the issue of the tender. I shall be withdrawing the amendment, but for now, I beg to move.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I want to raise some quick reservations about Amendments 64, 112 and 113. I apologise that I did not speak on this before: it was always grouped with other things that I was speaking on. I absolutely understand the sentiment behind improving careers education; I just want to get some clarification on the focus of these amendments.

One real worry for me over recent years has been the constant instrumentalisation of education for non-educational outcomes—schools are always asked to solve economic, social and cultural problems. Even though performance at school can of course be related to job prospects, I am worried that a utilitarian approach to school as a means to gain employment seems far too narrow and can backfire. I would like some reassurance that a focus on careers education will not lead to that.

As a teacher for many years, years ago, I always found it very dispiriting when pupils and students adopted a rather philistine attitude and would say things like, “What’s the point of studying Jane Austen or Shakespeare? It won’t get me a job.” Knowledge for its own sake was always sneered at, and that is perfectly understandable; they were teenagers, and it was a battle one had in the classroom. The argument was always, “Why don’t you teach us relevant, useful skills that will help me earn some money—not all this guff?” I just want to ensure that we do not inadvertently encourage that kind of philistinism here. I suppose I am wary that too much focus on careers education can chip away at the importance of what is a young person’s entitlement, even if they do not thank you at the time, to the best of what is known and thought, regardless of whether the students appreciate why it is important, or even if it is totally useless for job acquisition.

In that context, I worry about the proposed mandatory work experience of 10 days in one of the amendments, when there is so much to teach the young. I also notice the amendments focusing on primary schools. Although it has just been explained why—that by seven, perhaps you are already fixed in life—I am less deterministic. For primary school pupils in particular, it is a time for dreaming, imagination and a notion that the world is one’s oyster—that you can be anything—and I am concerned about bringing them down to earth with a mighty bump if we send them off on careers skills education.